Vodafone Gets Restraining Order On T-Mobile's iPhone Sales

[Nym]

Excuse me but I just have have to throw in my opinion on this.

999€ is brutally expensive for a cell phone IMO.

I guess that people will just buy the 399€ version and unlock it.

If Apple wants the iPhone product line to reach the masses like the iPod managed to do they just can't expect people to pay 999€ for a cell phone, because in my perspective, above everything else, that's what the iPhone is.

999€ is almost the price of a MacBook, and a MacMini is even cheaper! I just don't get it, 999€ = 1,481.567 US$!

1481$ for a cell phone?? my god

 

[IJ Reilly]

Because the iPhone is clearly something that will sell, and they would be foolish not to. Of course I don't know the technical requirements

Well neither do I, but the way Apple has handled this suggests that the requirements are non-trivial.

I'm not an idiot, of course everyone is in business to make money. There is a point however when making money does turn to pure greed, and in my mind with the way they have gone about launching the iPhone they have stepped over the line. My opinion.

Greed, pure or impure, is how the system works. Are you trying to make a distinction between "good greed" and "bad greed?"

Apple are special, the iPhone is special. The iPhone is it's own small market to a certain extent, a market which is entirely closed because they lock in with one provider to get extra money from contracts, something which no other manufacturer in this sector does.

If the iPhone is its own small market, then so is every other proprietary product. I don't see the reasoning behind singling out the iPhone for special treatment.

But you bring up another important issue. Apple is attempting to change the dynamic in the mobile phone industry by taking some of the power away from the cellular providers. I see this potentially as being a good thing. Don't you?

 

[edesignuk]

Well neither do I, but the way Apple has handled this suggests that the requirements are non-trivial.

Trivial or not - and neither of us know - if the iPhone was open to any network, I'm sure they'd do it.

Greed, pure or impure, is how the system works. Are you trying to make a distinction between "good greed" and "bad greed?"

I'm just saying that in my opinion Apple have moved on from being a company that wants to be successful and make money, to one which is incredibly arrogant and incredibly greedy.

But you bring up another important issue. Apple is attempting to change the dynamic in the mobile phone industry by taking some of the power away from the cellular providers. I see this potentially as being a good thing. Don't you?

I don't. Apple have made it so that owning a phone costs the consumer more. If every handset maker made you buy the handset outright, then insisted on dragging you in to a long and expensive contract we'd all be screwed. This model is a backward step.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I don't. Apple have made it so that owning a phone costs the consumer more. If every handset maker made you buy the handset outright, then insisted on dragging you in to a long and expensive contract we'd all be screwed. This model is a backward step.

If any given consumer doesn't like the iPhone deal, then they absolutely should not buy one. This is the risk calculation Apple has made. The fact is any subsidized phone is going to come with a contract commitment. The difference is that these deals were up to now completely controlled by the carrier. I think shifting the center of power in the mobile market is valuable to the consumer, if only because of the relatively large number of handset makers compared to number of carriers. Whether you approve of the iPhone deal or not, I think it is still the case that if Apple is successful, the result will be more choice for consumers.

 

[GregA]

I don't. Apple have made it so that owning a phone costs the consumer more. If every handset maker made you buy the handset outright, then insisted on dragging you in to a long and expensive contract we'd all be screwed. This model is a backward step.

I think the upfront cost is a good thing for the industry, to recognise the value of the handset.

At the moment, it does seem that the Apple combination of upfront costs and monthly fees is more expensive (though I'm not positive, given the free data). However, if this means Nokia and Motorola are able to start selling similarly priced high end phones (ie without subsidies) on cheaper plans, it'll be giving us an alternative on how we approach our contracts.

So yeah - good on Apple for breaking the mold, and good on competition for making sure any new molds are competitive.

 

[pixelight]

If any given consumer doesn't like the iPhone deal, then they absolutely should not buy one. This is the risk calculation Apple has made. The fact is any subsidized phone is going to come with a contract commitment. The difference is that these deals were up to now completely controlled by the carrier. I think shifting the center of power in the mobile market is valuable to the consumer, if only because of the relatively large number of handset makers compared to number of carriers. Whether you approve of the iPhone deal or not, I think it is still the case that if Apple is successful, the result will be more choice for consumers.

how does not giving the consumer the choice to choose the carrier and the freedom to use the product however he/she sees fit give consumers more choice?

You pay for the phone... you should be able to use it with your service provider of choice. Anything else is plain stupid.

What's next.... will Apple have the right to tell people which internet provider they can use their Macs on?

get real.... Apple is wrong on this one and has been from the beginning... they have shown that the customer comes second or third or last, they don't really give a rats A55.

between the iPhone and the ridiculous limitations placed on the iPod touch they have shown how narrow minded and greedy they can be.

I think the upfront cost is a good thing for the industry, to recognise the value of the handset.

So yeah - good on Apple for breaking the mold, and good on competition for making sure any new molds are competitive.

good for Apple... how old are you? 15 ?

get real... stop being such a blind fanboy

 

[colonelbutt]

how does not giving the consumer the choice to choose the carrier and the freedom to use the product however he/she sees fit give consumers more choice?

You pay for the phone... you should be able to use it with your service provider of choice. Anything else is plain stupid.

What's next.... will Apple have the right to tell people which internet provider they can use their Macs on?

get real.... Apple is wrong on this one and has been from the beginning... they have shown that the customer comes second or third or last, they don't really give a rats A55.

between the iPhone and the ridiculous limitations placed on the iPod touch they have shown how narrow minded and greedy they can be.




good for Apple... how old are you? 15 ?

get real... stop being such a blind fanboy

what you are saying makes no sense as it is a competative market
you are being completely emotional
if you don't like apple or iphone buy something else and stop ranting

as many people have pointed out, from a uk point of view:

vodaphone N95 8gb (exclusive to voda): £75 + 18x£35 + 18*£7.5 + 18*£3.99 = £911

O2 iphone: £279 + 18x£35 = £909

so iphone is cheaper then voda exclusive deal

voda should get a life, its just soiled its reputation

 

[EricNau]

You pay for the phone... you should be able to use it with your service provider of choice. Anything else is plain stupid.

Are you really paying for the iPhone? Would Apple be able to sell the iPhone as is, for $399 if it wasn't receiving financial support from the cell companies?

You may disagree with the locked phones and contracts customary in the US, but fact is, the customer comes out ahead. ...We have to pay the monthly tariff anyhow, so why not make a commitment to one carrier and get a free phone, instead of paying for the phone and the monthly tariff?

Granted, I'm not a fan of locked phones and contracts (I think it's redundant), but one or the other is fine with me, if I get a free/cheaper phone.

 

[Archie-]

as many people have pointed out, from a uk point of view:

vodaphone N95 8gb (exclusive to voda): £75 + 18x£35 + 18*£7.5 + 18*£3.99 = £911

O2 iphone: £279 + 18x£35 = £909

so iphone is cheaper then voda exclusive deal

Whats missing from your analysis is that the N95 is a better phone, and deserve the price premium. As you should know, in UK, Sat Nav is actually a valuable and heavily used function - that alone is worth £100 integrated in your phone. In addition a 5 megapixel (video)camera is also a valuable addition, worth £100 integrated in your phone. And dont tell me people do not use these functions - they are very widely used.

The simple fact is that a 3G 8GB N95 is worth £605 unlocked, whereas the iPhone is barely worth £100 locked, let alone the £715 they are charging unlocked.

 

[colonelbutt]

Whats missing from your analysis is that the N95 is a better phone, and deserve the price premium. As you should know, in UK, Sat Nav is actually a valuable and heavily used function - that alone is worth £100 integrated in your phone. In addition a 5 megapixel (video)camera is also a valuable addition, worth £100 integrated in your phone. And dont tell me people do not use these functions - they are very widely used.

The simple fact is that a 3G 8GB N95 is worth £605 unlocked, whereas the iPhone is barely worth £100 locked, let alone the £715 they are charging unlocked.

you are being very subjective. if thats your analysis ok, but for me the N95 is a thick stubby device which looks and feels cheap, is made out of cheap plastic, has a cr@p user interface, a browser not in the same league as apples, slow, a cheap plastic screen and no good integration with a music store that beats all others by leaps and bounds.

 

[Archie-]

you are being very subjective. if thats your analysis ok, but for me the N95 is a thick stubby device which looks and feels cheap, is made out of cheap plastic, has a cr@p user interface, a browser not in the same league as apples, slow, a cheap plastic screen and no good integration with a music store that beats all others by leaps and bounds.

In fact you are being subjective. I am listing technical capabilities, whereas you are listing look and feel. Its a perfect example of style over function.

 

[GregA]

Apple is attempting to change the dynamic in the mobile phone industry by taking some of the power away from the cellular providers. I see this potentially as being a good thing. Don't you?

I don't. Apple have made it so that owning a phone costs the consumer more. If every handset maker made you buy the handset outright, then insisted on dragging you in to a long and expensive contract we'd all be screwed. This model is a backward step.

I think the upfront cost is a good thing for the industry, to recognise the value of the handset.

At the moment, it does seem that the Apple combination of upfront costs and monthly fees is more expensive (though I'm not positive, given the free data). However, if this means Nokia and Motorola are able to start selling similarly priced high end phones (ie without subsidies) on cheaper plans, it'll be giving us an alternative on how we approach our contracts.

So yeah - good on Apple for breaking the mold, and good on competition for making sure any new molds are competitive.

good for Apple... how old are you? 15 ?

get real... stop being such a blind fanboy

Use your brain pixelight. Read what you're replying to.

 

[colonelbutt]

In fact you are being subjective. I am listing technical capabilities, whereas you are listing look and feel. Its a perfect example of style over function.

we are both being subjective.

the point is that premium devices (cars, or anything else) are more then the sum of their parts.

that is the point I am making.

Also the iphone does many things much better then the N95 (converse is also true, for photos for example)

if tick box stuff is so important to you, thats the way you will buy and good luck to you.

I know so many people that bought the N95 because it has 5mp and gps and after the first week never use them again and spend the rest of their contract bitching about the appauling battery life - as they just really use it as a phone.

my iphone has replaced my personal blackberry, mobile phone and MP3 player + I get real satisfaction when I use it as its so beautiful. (see survery on iphone - highest user satisfaction rating of any phone ever).

That is certainly worth a premium to me! and I suspect all the other 100,000s of iPhone buyers (10,000s of which are in the UK).
Over 1.7m sold to date by the way!

 

[pixelight]

Use your brain pixelight. Read what you're replying to.

i think you should actually try to take your own advice...

what apple is doing benefits only Apple... the consumer isn't considered at all.

try and look at it without the stevegoggles.

have a good day

ciao

 

[pixelight]

Are you really paying for the iPhone? Would Apple be able to sell the iPhone as is, for $399 if it wasn't receiving financial support from the cell companies?

of course you are paying for the iPhone... do you think Apple is losing money on the touch? do you really believe that the few extra components in the iPhone are worth that much?

 

[Lanbrown]

Nokia does hold a sizeable majority of the mobile marketshare, but are seeking a bit more name and brand recognition to go along with their marketshare. (Also the goal of their flagship stores in NYC and Chicago.) We're talking about them here as a market leader, but the general consumer is oblivious to that. They know Apple and iPhone.

Nokia is well known outside of the US. The US is a different market and is dominated by the Asian brands.

It might cover the cost to manufacture but you then have to consider the Tech Support that Apple is providing as well.

As a company, Apple has the right to make "money at every turn." I would rather have a company making money so as to sustain it's existence to support their products as well as be there to stand behind their warranty.

Just keep beleving that. Apple has a high profit margin on the iPhone. How do the other companies exist? Some of which have a lower margin. Apple can do no wrong in your eyes.

In the interests of balance:



You could do that on an iPhone as well (via 2-3 3rd party apps or simply by editing the file in Garageband, saving as m4a and renaming it to a m4r).



We currently have no idea how 3rd party apps are going to work after the SDK release: they might need approval, it might be a free-for-all. We just don't know.



So can the iPhone.



You're right it can't do these things currently, but personally I think it'll be that a short time after the SDK is released we'll see iPhone GPS as well (via BT to an external GPS mouse). Likewise the BT (via FW update) VOIP and your fast busy signal app. Patience.



Interestingly, in real-world use a lot of people seem to think the EDGE experience on iPhone is not far off 3G - maybe due to faster browser rendering etc. i'm sure we'll see 3G eventually on iPhone as well, however.



Good luck running Photoshop on that.

I don't have to use any third-party apps to make any sound file for a ringtone. Apple just uses it as a way to make more money.

No third-party apps, compared to other phones that were designed to be open from the start.

Great, something else to carry around. I don't have to carry a BT "mouse" around; the GPS is in the phone. No need to worry about the battery being charged, losing it, etc.

My phone renders quite fast. I have been using the Internet and a browser for several years.

Are you really paying for the iPhone? Would Apple be able to sell the iPhone as is, for $399 if it wasn't receiving financial support from the cell companies?

They sure could. They have a high profit margin on the phone. Other phone manufactirers that have high profit margins just sell the phones to the carrier and that is it. They don't get any financial support from the carriers.

If Apple requires it, then it is a bad business model.