Vodafone Gets Restraining Order On T-Mobile's iPhone Sales

[csimmons]

Strange, while everything does not revolve around me, why does everything have to so conveniently revolve around the corporations in your post?

Greed means one group is happy and another is quite the opposite, let's look at it.

1. When I buy a CD, I get a CD and the publisher gets a CD, both are happy right? No, just because some people choose to share their music with others, technologies are put in place that makes my Mac hang when I try to rip certain CDs. I am out of my money and I get a useless CD, who is happy? No one, because the publishers are never happy.

2. The iPhone saga is just the same. Please don't give me the shitz about how much risk is involved to bring the product to market and all the jeebez, Apple is making a thick profit on those phones at even half of the upfront cost of those devices, and no... they want more. But oops, it makes it too expensive, so they come up with this convoluted scheme just to protect "Number one" (them), who the f*ck wants a phone that you cannot bring into another country and pop a different SIM card in? Not me. Nevermind the fact that the iPhone costs with 2 year contract more than what other phones cost unlocked.

GREED indeed.

Who is greedy here?

Stop being a fanboi and actually think differently, for yourself, rather than being a iTard.

No need to be a jerk. Go smoke a blunt or something. Relax.

 

[csimmons]

Honestly how in hell do you think Apple could pull out of their contract to provide the iPhone?

In case you don't know the full picture, those telco's are playing real dirty. We'll have to wait for T-Mobile's reaction, but the current estimating is a penalty of up to 250,000 € per sold iPhone, if T-mobile doesn't change. (source: SPIEGEL) Just think about it. T-mobile has said, they will counter-sue.

But what if (just a tiny little hint) T-mobile and AT&T sue Apple about the contract, making promises they couldn't hold?

And if you don't know about the German iPhone model, do me a favour - ****!

You can pick up the iPhones exclusively at the T-Punkt, T-mobile's retail chain. There is no chance to order it online (no, you can't get it via Apple or Amazon). Most Apple resellers (Gravis, Cancom) are really angry, as they are not allowed to sell it. And you don't see an iPhone close to the concurrence, when walking through those gib electronics markets (MediaMarkt, Saturn), despite them having dedicated Apple and iPod spots in their buildings.

So basically the Average Joe has to walk into these nasty T-Punkt or they are screwed. And you call that consumer-friendly?

This is where IMHO Apple f*cked up in Germany; the fact that the iPhone is only available in T-Punkt stores. You can't even get an iPhone at Apple's own website! That's sad indeed. iPhone activation is via iTunes, just like in the US and UK, so it doesn't matter where the phone was purchased; T-Mobile gets the contract. I often think about how many more iPhones would have been sold in Germany if Apple would have sold the iPhone through Saturn, Media Markt, and the traditional Apple resellers in Germany.

A dumb move on Apple's part.

 

[weckart]

Nevermind the fact that the iPhone costs with 2 year contract more than what other phones cost unlocked.

GREED indeed.

Who is greedy here?

Stop being a fanboi and actually think differently, for yourself, rather than being a iTard.

So the iPhone WITH contract costs more than other phones unlocked? Well Duh. Welcome to basic economics, and the concept of having to pay for phone and data charges. Or did you think that carriers provide this for free out of their love for mankind?

EVERY phone with contract will cost more than that phone unlocked. It has to, or every carrier will make a loss.

 

[alFR]

In the interests of balance:

There are suckers that bought the iPhone. On my phone, I can use any playable sound file as a ringtone, not the ones that Apple is willing to sell me.

You could do that on an iPhone as well (via 2-3 3rd party apps or simply by editing the file in Garageband, saving as m4a and renaming it to a m4r).

I can install any app that is written for my phone; not the ones that Apple has authorized.

We currently have no idea how 3rd party apps are going to work after the SDK release: they might need approval, it might be a free-for-all. We just don't know.

My phone is unlocked and came that way; even if it didn’t it could be unlocked.

So can the iPhone.

It also has GPS and I can use Google Maps or the map software the manufacturer provides. It has VoIP built-in as well. BT 2.0 + EDR is also there.

You're right it can't do these things currently, but personally I think it'll be that a short time after the SDK is released we'll see iPhone GPS as well (via BT to an external GPS mouse). Likewise the BT (via FW update) VOIP and your fast busy signal app. Patience.

Did I mention it has 3G? In fact, for nearly two years my phones have had 3G capability.

Interestingly, in real-world use a lot of people seem to think the EDGE experience on iPhone is not far off 3G - maybe due to faster browser rendering etc. i'm sure we'll see 3G eventually on iPhone as well, however.

Technically, my phone has almost as many cores as a MacPro.

Good luck running Photoshop on that.

 

[shuffles]

People, every phone is locked to the network you buy it from. If you buy a phone from vodafone,, its locked to the vodafone network and if you wanna use it on another network you have to unlock it. Everybody knows this. This isnt the problem. The problem is that Apple are charging a very high price for their handset along with ridiculous tariff options. Thats wat people are annoyed about. Generally if you buy an expensive phone you can have a cheap tariff with it if you want but Apple are trying to have the best of both worlds.

The whole point of buying a phone from a network eg vodafone is that they subsidise the price and you get it for cheaper. They do this because they will be making their money back off you when you pay your monthly bill or top up your credit. Thats why sim free phones are so expensive eg double or sometimes treble the price because you are not buying it on a network and so the network is not subsidising the price.

Personally, i love the iphone and cant wait till its released in Ireland. Does anyone know when that will be?? I heard its the start of 2008 but im not too sure though.

 

[geWAPpnet]

People, every phone is locked to the network you buy it from. If you buy a phone from vodafone,, its locked to the vodafone network and if you wanna use it on another network you have to unlock it. Everybody knows this.

Well, not in Germany. Branding, yes. Locking, no. There were never provider locked phones in Germany. Most of the Germans use Pre-Paid cards with any phone. I buy my phones always at amazon.de or in stores and not from a network company. It's quite common to often change your network in Germany. Simply put in another SIM card and use the cheaper rates.

 

[Romano]

T-Mobile Employees have been told that they are now also selling unlocked iPhones for 999 €
No information on how they unlock the phone and also no official statement yet.

 

[Dreyfus]

Update: Price announced, 999,- EUR

Telekom has just issued a German info release:

Until the case is settled (one way or the other) - they will sell the phone for 999,- EUR unlocked or for 399,- with the three existing tariffs.

 

[Phil A.]

Telekom has just issued a German info release:

Until the case is settled (one way or the other) - they will sell the phone for 999,- EUR unlocked or for 399,- with the three existing tariffs.

LOL - that's obviously a petulant foot-stamping reaction from T-Mobile as they clearly don't subsidise the cost of the iPhone by that much (unless they're going to gold-plate the things . I guess they're entitled to charge what they want but it could be interesting if they're made to justify the price difference at the court hearing...

 

[dadudeness]

the case seems to be closed:

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,518688,00.html says that the court made t-mobile to sell it unlocked.

 

[ben24ben]

they sell it unlocked for 999,- Euro and locked for 399,- Euro

In my opinion, Apple lost a big chance here in Germany and maybe in Europe. They could blow away Nokia and Sony with the iPhone, if they sell it unlocked for a good price. But now - a lot of people hate Apples Strategy here. They think, they are greedy.

 

[bob075]

Not a chance. An unlocked iPhone at $900 will sell exactly zero units.

Apple will just have to settle for being less greedy bastards and enjoy the profits made from the margins on the hardware, as should have been the case from day one.

Well said!!!!

 

[fiftydollarshoe]

they sell it unlocked for 999,- Euro and locked for 399,- Euro

In my opinion, Apple lost a big chance here in Germany and maybe in Europe. They could blow away Nokia and Sony with the iPhone, if they sell it unlocked for a good price. But now - a lot of people hate Apples Strategy here. They think, they are greedy.

Come on ? Can you imagine if the phone was sold unlocked ? The carriers would force Apple to change the interface to include Vodafone Live etc. Also they would arse-f*rk everyone on data charges..... that’s what the iPhone is about... the true mobile internet experience....... currently with 02, T-Mobie and AT&T you get free data.... you can bet on your life the carriers wouldn't do this if it was left up to them......

 

[edesignuk]

Can you imagine if the phone was sold unlocked ? The carriers would force Apple to change the interface to include Vodafone Live etc.

Nonsense. If it was unlocked it would be sold exactly however Apple decided to sell it, operators wouldn't be able to force them to brand anything, are you mad?

 

[paulo999]

If you do the maths, the 999 Eur price can work out better overall if you are stuck in a contract with another provider (I used UK tariffs to calculate this. The same may/may not apply in France or Germany)

 

[gifford]

oh god the stupidity of some people is astounding.

Apple are doing you a favour, yet you fail to notice. They are challenging the carriers and playing them off against each other for the best deal, THIS IS COMPETITION. It is removing some of the stranglehold the big 4 carriers have in europe, and forcing the whole industry to innovate.

What exactly is anticompetitive? or monopolistic here?

The carriers are some of the largest european companies, I wonder if there is any self interest in allowing these companies to dominate, which is all Germany is going to achieve by demanding Apple change it's business model.
Certainly not good for the consumer... it may even be anticompetitive in itself.

 

[edesignuk]

oh god the stupidity of some people is astounding.

Apple are doing you a favour, yet you fail to notice. They are challenging the carriers and playing them off against each other for the best deal, THIS IS COMPETITION. It is removing some of the stranglehold the big 4 carriers have in europe, and forcing the whole industry to innovate.

What exactly is anticompetitive? or monopolistic here?

The carriers are some of the largest european companies, I wonder if there is any self interest in allowing these companies to dominate, which is all Germany is going to achieve by demanding Apple change it's business model.
Certainly not good for the consumer... it may even be anticompetitive in itself.

If you buy the iPhone unlocked you HAVE to run it on one of the major operators, that's just a fact of life. The competition would come from who can offer the best tariffs, at the moment, there is no competition what so ever. What you said makes no sense at all.

 

[andiwm2003]

oh god the stupidity of some people is astounding.

Apple are doing you a favour, yet you fail to notice. They are challenging the carriers and playing them off against each other for the best deal, THIS IS COMPETITION. It is removing some of the stranglehold the big 4 carriers have in europe, and forcing the whole industry to innovate.

What exactly is anticompetitive? or monopolistic here?

The carriers are some of the largest european companies, I wonder if there is any self interest in allowing these companies to dominate, which is all Germany is going to achieve by demanding Apple change it's business model.
Certainly not good for the consumer... it may even be anticompetitive in itself.

i don't get your point at all. forcing carriers to work with unlocked phones usually helps competition and drives prices down. you make no sense at all.

aside of that it's interesting to see how this is going to help unlockers in the us.

t-mobile certainly has not only to sell the iphone unlocked but they also have to allow other carriers to use all it's features (visual voicemail).

once that is open any carrier could offer a tarif that supports the iphone. the corresponding firmware should be soon available to hackers.

at least then you could buy an iphone and two years later when you don't like your carriers plan you can hack it and use it somewhere else without losing your $399 investment in the phone.

 

[chicagostars]

I don't know

If you buy the iPhone unlocked you HAVE to run it on one of the major operators, that's just a fact of life. The competition would come from who can offer the best tariffs, at the moment, there is no competition what so ever. What you said makes no sense at all.

I'd love to believe that the availability of the iPhone across multiple carriers would result in lower prices, but I'm skeptical of this. Not sure of markets in other countries, but the availability of other smartphones across multiple carriers in the US (e.g. Blackberry, the cool Nokia stuff people keep bringing up, etc.) has not brought about what many would consider competitive prices: meaning lower prices. A provider could say that their prices are competitive because their rates are similar to those of the other major carriers; if all carriers have high rates but are in the same range, technically they are competitive. (Much like major airlines. Too bad haven't seen a boom of low price telecoms as we have with low price airlines.)

 

[emotion]

The iPhone is not subsidized by any of it's carrier partners, AFAIK.

That's true. Apple likely subsidize the cost with the money they get from the carriers though. It's a subtle point though.
----

So, the T-Mobile announcement is very interesting. I guess this was the plan for France too with Orange.

So places like Belgium present more of an interesting case. Are all iPhone sales going to go at €999? That's not exactly priced to sell is it?

It will be interesting when the Dev Team (and similar) people get their hands on this to see how it's done with the 4.x baseband bootloader that is currently unlockable (apart from to other O2 tariffs).

 

[edesignuk]

I'd love to believe that the availability of the iPhone across multiple carriers would result in lower prices, but I'm skeptical of this. Not sure of markets in other countries, but the availability of other smartphones across multiple carriers in the US (e.g. Blackberry, the cool Nokia stuff people keep bringing up, etc.) has not brought about what many would consider competitive prices: meaning lower prices. A provider could say that their prices are competitive because their rates are similar to those of the other major carriers; if all carriers have high rates but are in the same range, technically they are competitive. (Much like major airlines. Too bad haven't seen a boom of low price telecoms as we have with low price airlines.)

Of course, that's a possibility. But undeniably there is more chance for competition when there is not a monopoly on a product.

 

[kdarling]

That's true. Apple likely subsidize the cost with the money they get from the carriers though. It's a subtle point though.

Apple has stated in quarterly calls that the money iPhone owners pay them each month, via the carrier, is extra profit meant to pay for software updates.

So at ~$200 a year, over five years each owner pays Apple up to an extra $1000 for software.

Should be amazing software for that price, even if the number is half that, considering it's multiplied by a million owners.

 

[Padraig]

That's true. Apple likely subsidize the cost with the money they get from the carriers though. It's a subtle point though.
----

So, the T-Mobile announcement is very interesting. I guess this was the plan for France too with Orange.

So places like Belgium present more of an interesting case. Are all iPhone sales going to go at €999? That's not exactly priced to sell is it?


Oh, and Edesignuk, great avatar.
It will be interesting when the Dev Team (and similar) people get their hands on this to see how it's done with the 4.x baseband bootloader that is currently unlockable (apart from to other O2 tariffs).

You continue to say that Apple subsidize the cost with money they get from the carriers. Why do you believe this? Especially considering the estimate on cost of parts, itouch etc.

 

[emotion]

You continue to say that Apple subsidize the cost with money they get from the carriers. Why do you believe this? Especially considering the estimate on cost of parts, itouch etc.

Apple get a pot of money from iPhone sales. They have a target for that. They can afford to offer the device at a lower cost (compared to the Touch, say) so that that cost is not silly high. £269 is already a cost that most people baulk at
so they can afford to do it like that by stinging the carrier for 20% of the tariff.

The tariff cut there could be seen to be subsidizing the price of the handset.

It's a subtle point and one I don't expect all people to understand.

 

[Padraig]

Apple get a pot of money from iPhone sales. They have a target for that. They can afford to offer the device at a lower cost (compared to the Touch, say) so that that cost is not silly high. £269 is already a cost that most people baulk at
so they can afford to do it like that by stinging the carrier for 20% of the tariff.

The tariff cut there could be seen to be subsidizing the price of the handset.

It's a subtle point and one I don't expect all people to understand.

So you believe that the touch is loosing money?