Volkswagen CEO: We're 'Not Afraid' of a Potential 'Apple Car'

[840quadra]

Automobile consumers are not like electronics consumers. Comparing car features, sizes, classifications, performance, etc all come to mind when people shop for a car. I think Apple entering the market will be similar to how the AppleTV and HomePod joined their respective classes.

I am sure it will impact sales of some VW / Audi models that compete, however this is a completely different territory as compared to smartphones or tablets.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Cars are a lot more complex than phones so I’m not sure it’s right to keep harping on about “Nokia said this, blackberry said that”.

Cars are not more complex than phones, they are just different. The point of those who say make those comparisons is simply that everyone company that thinks they are invulnerable, fails eventually (something that is likely to happen to Apple eventually).

 

[Herrpod]

Flashback to 2007. Motorola - "We're not afraid of the iPhone."

 

[Dkka1]

Cars are not more complex than phones, they are just different. The point of those who say make those comparisons is simply that everyone company that thinks they are invulnerable, fails eventually (something that is likely to happen to Apple eventually).

But they are. I can assemble and disassemble an iPhone on my own, and I'm just a fanboy. I can't even start to do that with a car, and I'm an engineer.

 

[ipponrg]

To be fair, this forum was full of people stating the Apple Watch would be a failure. The question is not ever about market share, but about profit share and Apple is good at taking an outsized portion of their market’s profit.

I don’t think anyone is debating about profit share in this thread. If I got an Apple car, I would care about it being serviceable across the entire US. Profit share isn’t going to drive that conversation

Cars are not more complex than phones, they are just different. The point of those who say make those comparisons is simply that everyone company that thinks they are invulnerable, fails eventually (something that is likely to happen to Apple eventually).

Have you seen the phones on Kickstarter running AndroidOS? I would like to see a car one day crowd sourced... 🤣

 

[Motionblurrr]

This thread has me thinking about what Steve Balmer said about the iPhone. Lmao.

 

[iisdan]

I can smell the milk aging already

 

[Wanted797]

In all honesty. I can understand his point but companies shouldn’t say it. Cars are well past the commodity point and most are the same.

Unless Apple has some wild new battery or self driving technology that just blows our minds OR it’s a decent range electric car for a really affordable price (Beating Tesla), I can’t imagine it being a hit at first.

The thing will be it’s likely going to plant a seed. It will be after release how these companies respond that matters.

 

[MacCurry]

But they are. I can assemble and disassemble an iPhone on my own, and I'm just a fanboy. I can't even start to do that with a car, and I'm an engineer.

Absolutely. An electro-mechanical device vs. a consumer electronic device? Failure of a car will at the worst lead to death and destruction of property. At the best it will leave you stranded or stuck because it won't move. A phone failure will result in you finding another one in a matter of hours and continue what you were doing.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Well, of course when somebody reads something like this, the first thing that comes to mind is Nokia. But that doesn't mean that Apple figures everything out. I don't know if Mark Zuckerberg said something like he is not afraid of Ping. Anyway. Ping was a desaster.

I am pretty sure he never said anything about Ping. I am not sure I would call it a disaster (did not cost much to develop, did not cause them to lose a great deal of money, market share, or brand awareness). Clearly not successful, but not every product they make will be. The point of the comparison is not that Apple is guaranteed success, but that when they really target a market, they are a big potential threat. Competitors ignore that at their peril.

I also don't know of Eric Schmidt said something like he's not afraid of Apple Maps.

Yup, but Apple Maps is the most used map product on iPhone and has hurt Google’s profit from map-based advertising. The fact that Apple is still putting money in to their maps product shows why they are a problem. They can be tenacious and have very deep products. Makes them a serious threat.

Still doesn't.

Depends on where you are, but it does not have to be better for it to be a problem for Google’s ad sales and data gathering, it just has to take enough of their highest potential revenue customers away and that it certainly has done.

Don't know if Google is afraid of Siri by the way.

Only in that it any question it answers or function it serves is one fewer question for their ad-based search and data capture service to answer.

So, of course it may be that Apple revolutionizes the car industrie. But it does not need to be. And the car market is under a fierce competition for countless years, it won't be a cakewalk for Apple.

The phone market was a fierce competition for countless years. Apple does not need to be the volume leader for them to be a problem for their competitors. They just need to do what they do in many other spaces and that is suck up an outsized share of the profit. Will they do that in the car space? Who knows, but if I ran a car company I would be very concerned about their entry to my market.

 

[840quadra]

Cars are not more complex than phones, they are just different. The point of those who say make those comparisons is simply that everyone company that thinks they are invulnerable, fails eventually (something that is likely to happen to Apple eventually).

How are they not more complex?

My phone doesn't need to start after sitting outside at -15, transport me 35 miles while also providing heat & comfort. My phone can't have an impact with another device at 60 MPH and keep me relatively safe.

I think you are oversimplifying the problems automakers need to face to bring reliable modes of transport to the masses.

 

[Dkka1]

Absolutely. An electro-mechanical device vs. a consumer electronic device? Failure of a car will at the worst lead to death and destruction of property. At the best it will leave you stranded or stuck because it won't move. A phone failure will result in you finding another one in a matter of hours and continue what you were doing.

Not only that, but the number of parts and options, tolerances, sheer weight and size... completely different things, even if we're talking about assembly lines alone.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Apple always target the 1%. There is no need to worry about. They are in different market share

So it sells 20% of the smart phones in the world to the 1%? Got it. Good thing that VW does not have any brands like Porsche, or Audi that also target that market.

 

[Superhai]

Why do these companies always do this? They underestimate Apple then just get humiliated when they end up being successful.

Well, if you as a CEO doesn’t have confidence in your own company the owners will most likely ask you to step down.

I would say that it is not what they say that are humiliating, but rather their (failed) strategy to meet the new competition.

 

[Alan Wynn]

How are they not more complex?

They are just different, not more complex. We have been making cars for over 100 years, these are well understood systems. Not to say they are easy, just no more complex.

My phone doesn't need to start after sitting outside at -15, transport me 35 miles while also providing heat & comfort.

And my car does not need to be waterproof to 30 meters and still have a working speaker. The level of integration for the Apple Watch is pretty amazing. Again you have listed different requirements, not more complex ones.

I think you are oversimplifying the problems automakers need to face to bring reliable modes of transport to the masses.

And I think you underestimate the difficulty of manufacturing tiny, space-constrained devices. I never said that building cars was trivial, just that it is not more complex then building this kind of ce gear.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Not only that, but the number of parts and options, tolerances, sheer weight and size... completely different things, even if we're talking about assembly lines alone.

Absolutely different, but I am pretty sure the tolerances needed for the iPhone and the Apple Watch exceed anything needed to build a car today. Car manufacturing is not trivial, it is just different. However, all that knowledge is easily purchasable, and Apple does not lack money to do so if they wish.

 

[Nick_P]

I think at this point I'd rather Apple build its own factory and own tooling. How much would the whole operation cost? 5 Billion? Its a drop in the bucket for them. I'd rather they do this than partner with an existing automaker.

 

[Dkka1]

They are just different, not more complex. We have been making cars for over 100 years, these are well understood systems. Not to say they are easy, just no more complex.

And my car does not need to be waterproof to 30 meters and still have a working speaker. The level of integration for the Apple Watch is pretty amazing. Again you have listed different requirements, not more complex ones.

And I think you underestimate the difficulty of manufacturing tiny, space-constrained devices. I never said that building cars was trivial, just that it is not more complex then building this kind of ce gear.

No, no. They ARE far more complex.

The car was invented more than a century ago. Henry ford invented the mass production system. Taiichi Ohno developed the Toyota system after WWII to build cars. As of today, we're still developing the JIT system, because car manufacturing is an unique mixture of extreme industrial efficiency and massive capital usage.

The rest of manufacturing industries imitate the car industry in terms of manufacturing efficiency. This is top notch complexity. If you don't take my word, take his:

Tesla boss Elon Musk admits car quality flaws, says mass production is "hell"

Musk was candid about where Tesla could make improvements

www.caradvice.com.au

 

[I7guy]

Apple's chance of success with ANY Apple Car is probably ONLY 1% Best Case !

Same as Ballmer said about the iphone, I guess.

 

[Alan Wynn]

But they are. I can assemble and disassemble an iPhone on my own, and I'm just a fanboy. I can't even start to do that with a car, and I'm an engineer.

No you cannot. You can open the case on your iPhone and plug/unplug a few parts. That is not assembling an iPhone. Your statement is the equivalent of saying I can change my tires and belts, so I can assemble my car.

 

[Nick_P]

The existing car companies are probably all colluding against Apple privately. They are all saying "no, we are not going to make your car", as a way to try to keep them out of the market and take their share. They are not stupid, regardless of what they say publicly. They saw what apple did to the phone industry, computer industry, music industry, retail industry, etc. More reason for Apple to build their own factory.

 

[Dkka1]

They are just different, not more complex. We have been making cars for over 100 years, these are well understood systems. Not to say they are easy, just no more complex.

And my car does not need to be waterproof to 30 meters and still have a working speaker. The level of integration for the Apple Watch is pretty amazing. Again you have listed different requirements, not more complex ones.

And I think you underestimate the difficulty of manufacturing tiny, space-constrained devices. I never said that building cars was trivial, just that it is not more complex then building this kind of ce gear.

Excuse me, but you don't know what you're talking about. This is not a matter of opinion. Manufacturing cars is the most complex mass manufacturing there is.

 

[I7guy]

How will Apple Cars be. serviced at Apple Stores?

Ignoring the sarcasm, my guess is they develop relationships with existing car dealers.

 

[Dkka1]

No you cannot. You can open the case on your iPhone and plug/unplug a few parts. That is not assembling an iPhone. Your statement is the equivalent of saying I can change my tires and belts, so I can assemble my car.

No, no. I can buy all the spare parts the way they arrive at the assembly line and assemble an iPhone myself. Maybe you can't, but I can. And it isn't complex.

 

[ArPe]

Should just put humans on a battery powered luge board so they can sleep on the highway on the way to work.