MP 7,1 W5700X Release

darkmatter343

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 18, 2017
237
165
Toronto, Canada
Has Apple given any time frame when the W5700x will be an option for the Mac Pro? Are they just waiting for stock to build up, so it could be anytime? I was interested in purchasing one next month but if the W5700x is relatively close to release I'll wait.
 

ruslan120

macrumors 65816
Jul 12, 2009
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817
This gave me a business idea - contract manufacturers to produce generic, passive heatsinks in the Mac Pro style for modern graphics cards. Make them differ just enough to avoid lawsuits. Profit.
- - Post merged: - -

Any takers? I'm thinking 60-40?
 

chfilm

macrumors 68030
Nov 15, 2012
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Berlin
This gave me a business idea - contract manufacturers to produce generic, passive heatsinks in the Mac Pro style for modern graphics cards. Make them differ just enough to avoid lawsuits. Profit.
- - Post merged: - -

Any takers? I'm thinking 60-40?
Gogogo!
 
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bsbeamer

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Sep 19, 2012
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I'm guessing the AMD 5XXX drivers are part of the holdup. They're just not very good with 10.15.3 and previous with 5500M and RX5700XT in eGPU. Personally waiting on reports with 10.15.4 beta (public) to see if any additional improvements or signals they're working on them.

Personally will not be purchasing an MP7,1 with an RX580-based GPU in 2020. If the W5700X pricing is horrendous, or there will be additional delays beyond April 2020, I'll likely be transitioning to iMac in some capacity. (Unless a can't pass up sale surfaces before then.)
 

EpicEsquire

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2020
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I'm guessing the AMD 5XXX drivers are part of the holdup. They're just not very good with 10.15.3 and previous with 5500M and RX5700XT in eGPU. Personally waiting on reports with 10.15.4 beta (public) to see if any additional improvements or signals they're working on them.

Personally will not be purchasing an MP7,1 with an RX580-based GPU in 2020. If the W5700X pricing is horrendous, or there will be additional delays beyond April 2020, I'll likely be transitioning to iMac in some capacity. (Unless a can't pass up sale surfaces before then.)

I feel the exact same way - I am waiting for the W5700X or a redesigned iMac/iMac Pro - whichever comes first gets my money
 
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flowrider

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Nov 23, 2012
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I ordered my NcMP with the 580X card, and replaced it with an Aorus RX 5700 XT. Should have similar performance to Apple's W5700X. But 8GB of GDDR6 rather than 16GB. I'm sure the price I paid for the Aorus will be much less than Apple's price. So far, happy with my choice.

And just to add, I would never consider an iMac because of their lack of flexibility. And they are just not as robust as a Mac Pro, but that's JMHO.

Lou
 

1147402

macrumors member
Sep 27, 2018
33
11
I ordered my NcMP with the 580X card, and replaced it with an Aorus RX 5700 XT. Should have similar performance to Apple's W5700X. But 8GB of GDDR6 rather than 16GB. I'm sure the price I paid for the Aorus will be much less than Apple's price. So far, happy with my choice.

And just to add, I would never consider an iMac because of their lack of flexibility. And they are just not as robust as a Mac Pro, but that's JMHO.

Lou
Theoretically, W series cards are, like Nvidia Quadro, driver optimized for professional work (e.g. CAD, scientific calculation etc.) and have the driver verified/licensed for such usage. Part of the price is reflecting the extra cost. If you don't use them as such, or simply don't care, then RX series is actually a better deal (if you can live w/o Thunderbolt 3 output).

On the other hand, 5700 series isn't considered a high-end card to AMD. It's more of a R580X replacement than a Vega II replacement. Better wait for W5800X/W5900X if you are willing to wait for W5700X and willing to pay the premium.
 
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bsbeamer

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Sep 19, 2012
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There is no indication Apple will be releasing W5800/5900X GPUs as MP7,1 modules or any indication on the timeline of when they will be released. They have announced W5700X and that is an official BTO option, eventually... it’s been 8 weeks since announcing and still not available.

If/when they’re released, they likely will be standard PC versions as a PCIe. As long as driver support is there, no reason this would not be an acceptable option (or via eGPU).

Could also see iMac and/or iMacPro using in some capacity if those machines are updated. No indication those are imminent either.
 

1147402

macrumors member
Sep 27, 2018
33
11
There is no indication Apple will be releasing W5800/5900X GPUs as MP7,1 modules or any indication on the timeline of when they will be released. They have announced W5700X and that is an official BTO option, eventually... it’s been 8 weeks since announcing and still not available.

If/when they’re released, they likely will be standard PC versions as a PCIe. As long as driver support is there, no reason this would not be an acceptable option (or via eGPU).

Could also see iMac and/or iMacPro using in some capacity if those machines are updated. No indication those are imminent either.
There's no indication because there's no 5800/5900 release date (yet) from AMD, but should be released within 2020 otherwise Nvidia would catch up and make AMD look bad (again). There's no reason Apple doesn't replace Vega II with Big Navi as a) Vega II (aka Radeon VII) doesn't support DSC and b) it's old arch and power inefficient. It's gonna take even longer for Apple to release their "X" versions than AMD does, but doesn't mean they won't come.

And there's already a PC variant (W5700) available. The "X" version is Apple's custom version just like those Vega II (custom Radeon VII). And MPX modules never were available for purchase anyways since MP7,1 released.
 
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daveedjackson

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Aug 6, 2009
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I too am torn between the vega II or another option currently unknown. Ordered with the stock GPU, but not sure of the best option, given the Vega isn’t even available to purchase from Apple. More importantly, why isn’t there an official “supported gpu’s” list. With exact info, driver support etc. It should be listed.
 

awkward_eagle

macrumors member
Feb 5, 2020
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28
I too am torn between the vega II or another option currently unknown. Ordered with the stock GPU, but not sure of the best option, given the Vega isn’t even available to purchase from Apple. More importantly, why isn’t there an official “supported gpu’s” list. With exact info, driver support etc. It should be listed.
Apple's officially supported eGPUs are the same for the Mac Pro.

 

flowrider

macrumors 603
Nov 23, 2012
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Why are you guys talkin' about breakaway boxes and eGPUs 1387914497.gif With the MP 7,1 we don't need 'em anymore thumbsup.gif

Lou
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
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There's no indication because there's no 5800/5900 release date (yet) from AMD, but should be released within 2020 otherwise Nvidia would catch up and make AMD look bad (again). There's no reason Apple doesn't replace Vega II with Big Navi as a) Vega II (aka Radeon VII) doesn't support DSC and b) it's old arch and power inefficient. It's gonna take even longer for Apple to release their "X" versions than AMD does, but doesn't mean they won't come.
"Big Navi" isn't the only option.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Leake...n-RTX-2080-Ti-crushed-by-Ampere.453533.0.html

https://www.techradar.com/news/amds...er-efficient-but-probably-wont-trouble-nvidia

The Vega II MPX modules are aimed at least as much as computational horsepower as they are aimed at "fast frame rates" and/or "higher resolution screen dimensions". Arcturus is the natural follow on to the "Vega 20" architecture implementation in the Vega II. The same way the Vega 20's MI50/MI60 ---> Vega II Single/Duo , there is a pretty decent chance that t Arcturus powered MI100 ---> new top end MPX modules ( single and dual ).

Apple will have a Navi solution in the W5700X. If there is any Navi solution coming to the Mac Pro it is more likely a "small" Navi to replace the somewhat maligned 580X module.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/professional-graphics/radeon-pro-w5500

From the rumors so far there are some substantive problems with "Big Navi" in the context in which Apple uses them. First, TDP. It is probably a stretch to get to two "Big Navi" GPUs onto a single MPX module. Arcturus may have picked up the power consumption optimizations that AMD put into the mobile Ryzen 4000 Vega implementations. AMD put some substantive 7nm optimization work into Vega for those

"... If you notice, the frequencies are super high – AMD said that this enhanced version of Vega, architected for 7nm, actually responded really well in terms of frequency and power, and so they were able to boost the clocks up a lot. So despite the drop from 11 CUs in the silicon design down to 8 CUs, the 1750 MHz frequency really piles on the performance. AMD is promoting +28% GPU performance in 3D Mark Time Spy against Intel’s Core i7-1065G7, as well as a single threaded performance lead over both Ice Lake and Comet Lake. ..."
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1532...-apus-7nm-8core-on-both-15w-and-45w-coming-q1

If they extended a large fraction of those "rework" optimizations to the Vega 20 baseline that would be a straightforward path to Arcturus. ( much , much bigger GPU so different yields (probably significantly lower) but the Vega II $2,800 & $5,800 price tag probably allow for that. ) . If AMD did a minor upgrade to the Display generator engine(s) to include DSC to the DispalyPort 1.4 those two upgrades would probably be enough for Apple.

I wouldn't bet on "Big Navi" bring a price drop for Apple's high end GPU MPX modules. ( And Radeon VII price has nothing to do with Vega II pricing. )


AMD has may/may not be doing a 5500/5700 refresh late in 2020. But those aren't too likely when Apple hasn't even gotten the W5700 yet ( or even announced something in the 5500 range on the current cycle).
There is a pretty good chance that Apple's W5700X is price pretty high ( $800-1200 range). Something "Big Navi" is will start to run into the zone of the Vega II with perhaps not top end computational horsepower.

Navi computational "advantages" somewhat appear to be mainly grounded in better clock speeds, not particularly better raw compute. If even the clock speed playing field then Arcturus has a pretty decent chance of being better at that. ( gaming graphics no.... grinding out large computations in most cases probably yes ... ). [ And Arcturus may use die packaging to get around any CU cap limit they may have . So bigger CU count wouldn't be exclusive to Navi either. ]


And there's already a PC variant (W5700) available. The "X" version is Apple's custom version just like those Vega II (custom Radeon VII). And MPX modules never were available for purchase anyways since MP7,1 released.
Apple's W5700X is a minor leap because it has 16GB of VRAM and not 8. The Vega II is more so a derivative of the MI50 MI60 than the Radeon VII .

But if want to point at the W5700 the W5500 was AMD's next move. If Apple is just shadowing that by 3-4 months .... that would be their next move.

There may or may not be a Pro W series "Big Navi" in 2020. Depending upon Big navi demand and how far the release slides into 2020 , the W variant may slide into 2021. That may help because there is probably a limited appetite for Apple do do a more than three MPX variants. And the W5700X may run long enough to simply just substitute it later with something in "next iteration" class in the mid-range class.
 
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frou

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2009
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I feel the exact same way - I am waiting for the W5700X or a redesigned iMac/iMac Pro - whichever comes first gets my money
Funny thing is that the base-spec iMac Pro (2017) already has a much better GPU than the base-spec MP7,1.

If they put out a new iMac Pro, might that be true for its CPU as well? o_O
 

EpicEsquire

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2020
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Funny thing is that the base-spec iMac Pro (2017) already has a much better GPU than the base-spec MP7,1.

If they put out a new iMP, might that be true for its CPU as well? o_O

Ohhhh you are right
I would like the modularity of the 7,1 though
 

deconstruct60

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Mar 10, 2009
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Funny thing is that the base-spec iMac Pro (2017) already has a much better GPU than the base-spec MP7,1.

If they put out a new iMac Pro, might that be true for its CPU as well? o_O
It may. If Apple sticks to Intel Xeon W 2200 series and Apple uses the price reduction to move the base iMac Pro to 10 cores instead of 8 then it will have a multicore edge. ( the W-2255 is less expensive than the W-2145. ) The base /turbo of the 2255 and 2155 are the same though. So on single threaded drag race it probably wouldn't do any better.

There isn't a huge leap in implementation here. Slightly better clocks speeds at slightly higher thermals plus some limited instruction improvements and bug fixes.

Kind of doubtful that Apple would start the iMac Pro at 8 cores if the regular iMac was going to hit 8 cores in 2020. Plus don't think Apple would be inclined to pass along price cuts that the W-2200 series got (at least at the entry level). Just shifting to a more expensive processor closer to the old 8 core price would be the more likely move. That would mean that the iMac Pro would have fewer CPU options so the top price driven by CPU would go lower. ( which again I doubt Apple would mind much at that keeps the iMac Pro more viable. A 10 , 14 , 18 core line up. if the 18 core landed on the $6,599-6,999 price point they'd probably be happy with that. ).

The MP 2019 with 1TB drive is $6,399. The folks who put a higher value on add-in slots and memory would put value on the MP and the folks who want cheapest path to more cores and don't care much about upgrades later would go with the slightly higher price point. The folks who ant both will go Mac Pro at an even higher price point.


If this is a "apple switches to AMD for iMac Pro" , that doesn't look likely. The W-2200 is better fit to the current case design thermals versus Threadripper 3. ( Apple throwing away the case design after one iteration... is not their modus operandi. ). Going Ryzen would be odd. ( not impossible but odd.)
 
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