iPod touch Wait for the iPod Touch 5, or not?

[sracer]

Similarly, again, look to the pricing of mifi modems. Strip away their parts that wouldn't be needed (for example the outer case since the iPod's outer case would cover that). If one can buy a whole, stand-alone 3G data device for $100 retail (sometimes one sees $79 and even $49 retail), I would think Apple could build in the underlying tech for not much more than the implied costs involved in making whole mifi modems. Then, those that don't care could buy the "without 3G" iPod and those that might want it could buy the "with 3G" option... just like on the iPad.

On the iPad "with 3G" adds $130 to the price. If an Ipod Touch 5G was available with a "with 3G" option for those interested (and data options that matched the no-contract options of the iPad), I, for one, would opt for the extra $130 to include the 3G flexibility. I'm not saying it should be forced into EVERY iPod but in my own case, +$130 for a 3G option on a gen 5 would get my money in the next month or two; no 3G and the money most likely stays in my pocket. If I am not a one-man market, there's probably a nice little pocket of opportunity there for Apple... those that don't want the total cost of thousands for an iPhone but could use the occasional 3G access via an iPad-like "use it when you want" 3G plan on a tiny device that fits in one's pocket.

I'm hoping Apple is thinking "iCloud on everything" so they include a 3G option (hopefully choosing to make it available for less than +$130 to entice more people to have iCloud-anywhere access); but I bet the big selling point (probably unstated) would be the on-demand, "cheap" data-only plan hooked to a portable iDevice which seems like it would be perfect for all those "text anytime" teenagers with parents that don't want to pay the full voice+data toll that comes with an iPhone. In my own case, I'm not that teenager, but I do have an occasional need for 3G access (certainly far from enough to ever buy an iPhone). In the past, I've spent my money on other company's technology to buy mifi modems etc. If Apple would rather have that kind of money instead, they build that mifi right into the next iPod Touch.

There are an awful lot of teenagers hungry for an iDevice but not the AT&T or Verizon monthly toll. They want to text but not much voice, though AT&T & Verizon forces the voice plan cost to get the data plan. If the parents balk, the kid ends up with Android or less. If Android, they accumulate Android apps while they are teenage poor. When they can pay up for their own "real phone", they would be faced with a choice of iPhone 7 or 8 and re-buying a bunch of their favorite apps again or sticking to the platform where their app investment already works. Thus, even though this penny-pinching market might not seem ideal for the short-term, the availability of app platforms does make it a longer-term upside market. Apple should get it rather than giving it to Android or others. A few years from now, those poor teenagers are prime candidates to pay up for the next-next-next gen iPhone. Already being locked into iDevice apps would practically insure that they buy Apple in the future.

You may have missed the forest for the trees....

There are prepaid Android smartphone options for $25/$35 a month for full text and full data plans. That is the going rate for 3G iPad data plans alone. Penny pinching teens aren't going to shell out an extra $130 for a 3G iPod Touch ($130 being the added cost for 3G over a non-3G iPod Touch) and an extra $25/$35 a month just for 3G access for their media.

If they can afford the more expensive iPod w/3G and data plan and a cellphone, then they can afford an iPhone. (the cost is virtually identical) And they'd have the added benefit of carrying a single device, not two.

Considering how cell providers are capping data, it would be illogical to depend upon 3G as an integral part of any "iCloud anywhere" strategy.

Apple would need to do something radically different than what is currently available in order for the scenario you painted to be feasible.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

You may have missed the forest for the trees....

There are prepaid Android smartphone options for $25/$35 a month for full text and full data plans.

Could you point to a few of those that are truly "use it when you need it" (no ongoing contract)? And I mean a full iPod/iPhone-like device with 3G data-ONLY options of $25 or less per month.

And even if you can, the forest that I'm looking at is the desire to have something like that in the Apple ecosystem since we are an Apple household. Besides, if these are readily available and otherwise compete with the iPod 3G concept, shouldn't Apple want to compete in that space too? Else, risk those they let go to Android now probably sticking with Android when they are able to afford a "real phone" in a few years (because of the accumulated app portfolio they buy between now and then)?

Penny pinching teens aren't going to shell out an extra $130 for a 3G iPod Touch ($130 being the added cost for 3G over a non-3G iPod Touch) and an extra $25/$35 a month just for 3G access for their media.

The teens aren't the penny pinchers to which I was referring. It's the parents of those teens & tweens who buy the "phone" for them and often pay for the plan too. I live in a fairly affluent area and I can tell you there is definitely a market for an Apple iDevice with 3G that fits in a pocket that does not come with the iPhone AT&T & Verizon toll. Blend the iPad 3G plans with an iPod Touch and it will sell well. How people I know are getting around this now is with iPod Touches + Mifi devices. But their kids want the 2 devices merged into one.

If they can afford the more expensive iPod w/3G and data plan and a cellphone, then they can afford an iPhone.

Of course, but I didn't say that. The idea is an iPod Touch 3G + iPad-like 3G option, not an iPod 3G, a data plan AND a cell phone too. For example, an iPod Touch 3G at my +$130 price plan with iPad monthly data plan at $25/month costs a whole lots less than an iPhone + an iPhone voice & data plan. A VOIP app can cover the occasional voice use.

And again, it's not they (the teens) affording the more expensive iPod. That's the parents paying for it. The OP is in this boat now- his parents are buying a gift of a new iPod and he's wondering iPod 4 "as is" or wait on iPod 5?

In my own case, I'm a parent of a young teen who really wants a text anywhere device, but doesn't want to use voice much. I know for certain that she is not an anomaly in this regard. We bought her an iPod Touch and a Mifi, then set her up with texting apps and Skype for VOIP calls. That's all great and not nearly $1000/yr for 3G service. However, she really wants ONE device, not two. This iPod 3G rumor would be perfect. And we (the parents) would be willing to cough up annual data only at $25/month (at $300/yr) rather than an iPhone toll at $69+/month (or a $828+ toll). That's the killer for the "just get an iPhone argument". $300/yr vs. at least $828/yr is a BIG difference (it's the whole iPod Touch + 3G cost and then some saved every year she owns it). In this way, any "just buy an iPhone" argument is not competitive at all.

Considering how cell providers are capping data, it would be illogical to depend upon 3G as an integral part of any "iCloud anywhere" strategy.

I agree but see 1000 threads on this site where people are gushing about iCloud anywhere over 3G and pretending like caps and 3G tiers/overages don't exist. It's also illogical for anyone to accept paying an extra $20/month or so for texting options when texting costs nothing... but AT&T, Verizon, etc made $21 billion on texting revenues alone last year.

That said, there are 3G monthly rates on iPads at $25/month. Build this into a new iPod and it gets a whole new value proposition for parents of those texting teens and the occasional business traveler who needs 3G only a small amount of the time. Else, mifi devices continue to win that business. Or, as you've offered, Android wins that business. If the latter, teens buy Android apps for the next few years and get somewhat locked into Android. When they are able to buy their own "real" phone, do they stick with Android or do they rebuy all of those same apps on the iPhone 7 or 8?

I actually somewhat buy into the 3G rumor for a new iPod because of the iCloud + iMessage focus. But I think the real benefit of an iPod 3G is more along the lines of bringing a "starving artist"-type option of an Apple 3G device to those segments who don't want to pay the iPhone AT&T or Verizon (full) tolls and would rather pocket the iDevice than carry an iPad.

 

[Invincibilizer]

The perception is that a 3G ipod would have the "use (3G) only when you need it" plan like the iPad and not the "pay for it whether you use 3G or not" plan like the iPhone. If it comes with a contract, then it is an iPhone. If it comes with an option to use 3G on demand, then it offers the iPad "connect anywhere" benefit (but only when you really need 3G) in a tiny "fit in your pocket" package.

If it plays out that way, it does NOT come with a contract. Instead, you can buy 3G on the fly, only when you need access that way. For some, this is an ideal solution vs. spending thousands on an iPhone and/or lugging along an iPad everywhere.

How would that work?(3G on the fly)

If the iPod does come with 3G, it will be like the iPad 20 or 30$ a month for 3G access.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

How would that work?(3G on the fly)

If the iPod does come with 3G, it will be like the iPad 20 or 30$ a month for 3G access.

That's right, but with the iPad plan (actually $15 or $25/month) you pay for it only when you need it. So, if a person has an iPad 3G and only needs 3G from time to time, they spend the $15 or $25 in those spots where they need it. For example, I occasionally travel for business. Most of the time, I use the free wifi option on the iPad, so I spend nothing for 3G. But every once in a while- especially when traveling for business and I can't depend on finding some wifi when I need it- I might buy $15 or $25 worth of 3G on that trip(s). When I get back home, it's back to (free) wifi use. It's September and so far this year, I've spent $50 on 3G. That's much, much better than paying $69+ every month even when I never use 3G most months.

Yes, if an iPod 3G comes to market with an iPad plan, the 3G will cost the $15 or $25/month. That's still a lot cheaper than $69+ per month EVERY month for an iPhone. The $25/month plan is enough to pretty much cover the heavy texting the teens/tweens want with the occasional voip calls. Thus, it could be the perfect solution for the parents of those teens who pay for the kids "phone" and plan. $25 times 24 months is a lot less than $69+ times 24 months. That's the fundamental attraction to the concept (and knowing how AT&T & Verizon thinks, probably the best reason it won't happen too... though they did let this through on the iPad so maybe???)

We've taught our kid to be pretty careful with her monthly expenses. As such, she might be able to get by on the $15/month plan. In the summer where she is not locked out of free wifi at school, she might not need 3G at all. If so, the cost comparison could flip to $15 times 18 (only 9 months of school) vs. $69+ times 24. Either way- 9 or 12 months a year at $15 or $25 is still a lot less costly than $69+ times 24 months. We live in what is called the second richest county in the United States. I know tons of parents looking for the same kind of option... not willing to pay up for the full AT&T or Verizon iPhone toll but wanting to give their kids text-anytime 3G on a smart (ideally Apple) device. Right now, it's iPods + mifi filling this market want/need. Hopefully, Apple decides to take that mifi device money for themselves with this next iPod release.

 

[Nicolas4ever]

im pretty sure that apple will add the 3G option in the next generation of iPod touch.

 

[joe1946]

I have a 64GB 4G and would like to see a 5G with Verizon 4G.

 

[forcetactic]

But again, that's not how the rumor goes. The rumor is that the iPad 3G plan may be available on the next iPod. If that's true, you can get 3G data for a lot less than the (always) 3G costs (every month) of the iPhone. Furthermore, if it is just like the iPad option, you only pay for it when you need it. So, for example, if someone gets by just fine most of their time with wifi connections but only occasionally finds themselves in a spot where they need 3G, they can buy a little 3G access for those spots but use wifi the rest of the time. That would be a LOT cheaper than an iPhone option- especially where the iDevice user is mostly a data user and not much of a phone user (i.e. lots of teenagers, the occasional business traveler, etc).

I, for one, pretty much just use the data side of things now with VOIP as my method of calling when I need to make a call (not that often). That's not every day or every week or even every month for me... just occasionally, often connected to traveling for business and finding myself in spots where free wifi is not readily available. I've got by on mifi options in the past but this iPod rumor would effectively build the mifi into the iPod's body. That plus the iPad on-demand 3G plans would be very appealing for my kind of situation.

On the other hand, an iPhone would require paying big for 3G every month even when I probably wouldn't use 3G for most months of the year. If the OP has only occasional needs for 3G- if at all- he might want to wait these few days/weeks to see if this rumor proves out. If not and on demand 3G (not a monthly contract whether you use 3G or not) is important, he might pitch the parents to buy him an iPad 3G. For my own needs, I'd probably go iPod 3G, iPad 3G, then iPod or iPad wifi + Mifi. iPhone for low volume 3G needs just doesn’t make sense to me.

For those who argue against the idea because it would undercut iPhone sales, Apple will never get my money for an iPhone while AT&T, Verizon, etc have those kinds of prices of the contracts. So, if there are many people like me, this would be a way to sell a bunch of iPod 3Gs. But even if there isn't a lot of people like me, the parents of the teenage crowd (who really wants to anytime text but rarely wants to call) that don't want to pay the big monthly would probably be all over a $25/month data plan on an iPod 3G. Otherwise, those parents probably aren't buying their kiddies an iPhone anyway. So again, Apple can sell a bunch of units to people who aren't going to pay up for the AT&T or Verizon toll on the iPhone. I suspect there are a lot of those kinds of people (really wanting the niceties of all of "the rest" of the iDevice experience, but only needing a minimal cost 3G option so Junior can text anytime and occasionally voip/facetime/skype when they want to actually speak to someone).

The key here is lock-in. If you allow the rest of the crowd (those not willing to pay the duopoly tolls "as is") to still get some kind of cheap 3G on this iPod, all those apps they eventually buy somewhat locks them into an Apple-only solution in the future. It's not like you invest in lots of apps over time and then rebuy them when you switch to/from Android. Apple would do well to soak up this "tighter" group that way rather than having them go with cheaper alternatives now and getting somewhat locked into other systems/solutions. One side effect of app stores is that app collections do motivate a person to stick with a platform rather than hopping back & forth. Lock Junior in now and then in a few years when he/she has more money to burn such that they choose to bend over for the duopoly, they still stick with Apple and buy the iPhone 7 or later. Those that never accept the duopoly pricing would still stick with iPod 7 or later too.

iPhone data is $15 for 200MB on ATT which is pretty much the same price as $15 for 250MB iPad if we go under your assumption that you're by wifi most of the time. You also don't have to carry 2 devices which is infinitely times more convenient.

I also don't see many times where you're going to absolutely need it. IMO it's much more convenience than necessity so you technically don't need data at all, especially if you're near wifi 24/7. You would most likely get it or not use 3g at all, rather than getting it randomly on and off (including your business trip example which I've read)

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

iPhone data is $15 for 200MB on ATT which is pretty much the same price as $15 for 250MB iPad if we go under your assumption that you're by wifi most of the time. You also don't have to carry 2 devices which is infinitely times more convenient.

Where can you get iPhone 3G data only and on demand (only when you want 3G) for $15? Please point me to that link. Or are you saying that it's data for $15 on top of mandatory voice (which is not $15)? Please point me to a link where a person could buy an iPhone outright and then sign up for 3G data only for $15 (I'll not get into the cost differences between buying an iPhone outright vs. buying an iPod outright).

I also don't see many times where you're going to absolutely need it. IMO it's much more convenience than necessity so you technically don't need data at all, especially if you're near wifi 24/7. You would most likely get it or not use 3g at all, rather than getting it randomly on and off (including your business trip example which I've read)

I'm not sure I understand this paragraph, but best guessing what you mean, here's how it goes now. Most of the year, I don't need 3G at all. But sometimes I travel and need to make a call(s), check an email(s), get on the Internet, etc and can't locate free wifi just then. With the iPad, if I really need to connect right then, I just turn on the 3G, pay for either the $15 or $25 option and I've got 3G whenever I need it for the rest of the trip. At the end of the trip, I return home where I no longer need 3G. The $15 or $25 on-demand plan I purchased automatically ends. And I'm back to free wifi usage until the next trip. For my own purposes, I would classify my 3G need at "barely". But when I do need it, I can get it on demand for $15 or $25. If I got very busy with travel where- say-I had to travel every month and had to have 3G on every one of those trips, it would cost me $15 to $25 times 12 months MAX, which is substantially less than the iPhone's $69+ Minimum 3G plans times 12 months (which get worse when one wants data & texting options).

But set my own needs aside. Those who I think would really be hot for an iPod Touch 3G with an iPad data option is the parents of those tweens/teens who want to give their kid an iPhone-like 3G anywhere device without paying for the iPhone 3G plan tolls as priced now from AT&T or Verizon. For them, if the iPad options port to this new iPod, rather than using it like I do myself, they'll likely just pay the $25 option every month. That will give their kid an Apple iDevice with always-connected 3G so they can text their fingers off for $25 per month. When (and if) the kid wants a little voice equivalent, there's VOIP apps for that. But the big thing is that the kids want to text or receive text any time of the day or night (voice is secondary, sometimes a very distant second... even when they are sitting together in the same room, they seem to prefer to text message rather than just talk to each other).

Thus, $25 times 12 could be the perfect option for the text-hungry tween/teen. The poor mans version of this now is an iPod 4 with mifi. Buy the kid an iPhone and you have to pay for a voice plan to get a data add-on... even if the kid NEVER wants to make a single voice call. Thus, the starting price is $69+ for the monthly 3G toll. $25 times 12 is a lot less than $69+ times 12.

However, up above you imply that there is a $15 data-only (no "with voice") plan for iPhone, so please point me to it and we may buy our own teen an iPhone plus the "only $15/month" plan. Such an option would be genuine news to me (and apparently many other people in the same boat as me).

 

[forcetactic]

Where can you get iPhone 3G data only and on demand (only when you want 3G) for $15? Please point me to that link. Or are you saying that it's data for $15 on top of mandatory voice (which is not $15)? Please point me to a link where a person could buy an iPhone outright and then sign up for 3G data only for $15 (I'll not get into the cost differences between buying an iPhone outright vs. buying an iPod outright).



I'm not sure I understand this paragraph, but best guessing what you mean, here's how it goes now. Most of the year, I don't need 3G at all. But sometimes I travel and need to make a call(s), check an email(s), get on the Internet, etc and can't locate free wifi just then. With the iPad, if I really need to connect right then, I just turn on the 3G, pay for either the $15 or $25 option and I've got 3G whenever I need it for the rest of the trip. At the end of the trip, I return home where I no longer need 3G. The $15 or $25 on-demand plan I purchased automatically ends. And I'm back to free wifi usage until the next trip. For my own purposes, I would classify my 3G need at "barely". But when I do need it, I can get it on demand for $15 or $25. If I got very busy with travel where- say-I had to travel every month and had to have 3G on every one of those trips, it would cost me $15 to $25 times 12 months MAX, which is substantially less than the iPhone's $69+ Minimum 3G plans times 12 months (which get worse when one wants data & texting options).

But set my own needs aside. Those who I think would really be hot for an iPod Touch 3G with an iPad data option is the parents of those tweens/teens who want to give their kid an iPhone-like 3G anywhere device without paying for the iPhone 3G plan tolls as priced now from AT&T or Verizon. For them, if the iPad options port to this new iPod, rather than using it like I do myself, they'll likely just pay the $25 option every month. That will give their kid an Apple iDevice with always-connected 3G so they can text their fingers off for $25 per month. When (and if) the kid wants a little voice equivalent, there's VOIP apps for that. But the big thing is that the kids want to text or receive text any time of the day or night (voice is secondary, sometimes a very distant second... even when they are sitting together in the same room, they seem to prefer to text message rather than just talk to each other).

Thus, $25 times 12 could be the perfect option for the text-hungry tween/teen. The poor mans version of this now is an iPod 4 with mifi. Buy the kid an iPhone and you have to pay for a voice plan to get a data add-on... even if the kid NEVER wants to make a single voice call. Thus, the starting price is $69+ for the monthly 3G toll. $25 times 12 is a lot less than $69+ times 12.

However, up above you imply that there is a $15 data-only (no "with voice") plan for iPhone, so please point me to it and we may buy our own teen an iPhone plus the "only $15/month" plan. Such an option would be genuine news to me (and apparently many other people in the same boat as me).

Please note that I said to get an iPhone IF he already has a phone in my first post. That already makes what you're posting irrelevant.

You base your whole claim under the assumption that nobody has a phone plan. It might work for you but a lot of people might not find it practical not having a phone 24/7 and relying on wifi to use voip. Wifi calling and especially 3g calling is nowhere near as reliable as a real voice plan. So if you can manage without one, then yes, your plan is cheaper.

Many people have cell phone plans and are not willing to switch to a VoIP method. Therefore, if they're already paying for voice service, they could get an iPhone with integrated 3g + phone instead of an iPod touch for $15 more a month. This would probably be as cheap as getting service on a 3g iPod touch except for you get more features on iPhone + integration

 

[Apple...]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Simple answer: wait, regardless of if it's a "minimal" update or not.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Please note that I said to get an iPhone IF he already has a phone in my first post. That already makes what you're posting irrelevant.

You base your whole claim under the assumption that nobody has a phone plan. It might work for you but a lot of people might not find it practical not having a phone 24/7 and relying on wifi to use voip. Wifi calling and especially 3g calling is nowhere near as reliable as a real voice plan. So if you can manage without one, then yes, your plan is cheaper.

The OP (original poster) is asking an iPod question: go ahead and buy the current version of wait to see what's in the new version? This has led to some speculations about what waiting might get him of which this "it might have 3G" and "it might get the iPad on-demand 3G" options are in the mix.

I make no such assumptions, nor am I arguing for people with cell phones to add another 3G device and another 3G plan. If someone already has an iPhone and thus an iPhone 3G monthly commitment, I see little reason for them to be thinking about buying a hypothetical iPod and another 3G plan. My speculations for those who are not already suckered in by the duopoly and/or locked into someone's plan to recognize that if the next gen iPod comes with these iPad 3G features, it could cover that kind of specific need on the cheap, which would be perfect for the specific kinds of targets I've clearly defined (which don't already have a voice plan and/or 3G commitment).

It sounds like you have a 3G plan and phone, maybe iPhone. If so, great! Enjoy it. This option I've been discussing is clearly NOT for you. However, if the OP is debating "buy now or wait" and HE IS, he- not you- may find such rumored benefits worth waiting for. As do I. As do others.

Why are you here? Apparently, you don't think this iPod 3G makes sense. You apparently have an iPhone or other 3G phone so the stuff to which you are finding fault is irrelevant for your own needs. You're even making up stuff to try to imply that the same can be done with an iPhone. For example, I noticed that you did NOT share one link to the no-voice-required, $15/month on-demand iPhone data (only) plan that you shared in your previous response. Where are those links? I- and presumably others- would like to be able to buy an iPhone and pay only $15/month for 3G service. Please share the links to the service you said existed. I'm very interested.

 

[forcetactic]

The OP (original poster) is asking an iPod question: go ahead and buy the current version of wait to see what's in the new version? This has led to some speculations about what waiting might get him of which this "it might have 3G" and "it might get the iPad on-demand 3G" options are in the mix.

I make no such assumptions, nor am I arguing for people with cell phones to add another 3G device and another 3G plan. If someone already has an iPhone and thus an iPhone 3G monthly commitment, I see little reason for them to be thinking about buying a hypothetical iPod and another 3G plan. My speculations for those who are not already suckered in by the duopoly and/or locked into someone's plan to recognize that if the next gen iPod comes with these iPad 3G features, it could cover that kind of specific need on the cheap, which would be perfect for the specific kinds of targets I've clearly defined (which don't already have a voice plan and/or 3G commitment).

It sounds like you have a 3G plan and phone, maybe iPhone. If so, great! Enjoy it. This option I've been discussing is clearly NOT for you. However, if the OP is debating "buy now or wait" and HE IS, he- not you- may find such rumored benefits worth waiting for. As do I. As do others.

Why are you here? Apparently, you don't think this iPod 3G makes sense. You apparently have an iPhone or other 3G phone so the stuff to which you are finding fault is irrelevant for your own needs. You're even making up stuff to try to imply that the same can be done with an iPhone. For example, I noticed that you did NOT share one link to the no-voice-required, $15/month on-demand iPhone data (only) plan that you shared in your previous response. Where are those links? I- and presumably others- would like to be able to buy an iPhone and pay only $15/month for 3G service. Please share the links to the service you said existed. I'm very interested.

If you scroll back earlier, you'd see that you're the one who started an argument with me. I'm simply defending my reasons which you so hastily attacked. I have no qualms at all with your idea. I agree that your plan is perfect for people who don't use their phones a lot and don't want to shell out $55 for a voice plan + data.

I'm here to make the point that a 3g iPod touch is not needed IF OP already has a cell phone. If you had read clearly, then you would understand that the addition of an iPhone is only $15 more a month IF you already have a cell phone plan. If you're going to pay for 3g on iPod touch and you already have a cell phone, an iPhone will be a better/cheaper alternative. Your argument is nice but simply doesn't apply if you want to invalidate mine.

And FYI even playing by your terms, if you stick an iPad micro sim in iPhone 4, you can use it data only (after changing the APN settings). That's not even what I'm arguing for, but since you are so annoyingly pestering me about the subject, that's 1 way you can use an iPhone with your "plan" for $15 a month. No commitment.

http://www.wifitalk.ca/iphone/ipad-3g-sim-gives-iphone-data-only-for-15-usd/

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

OK forcetactic, but now you're talking about hardware trickery and piggybacking on family plans still paid for by someone else. If you want to go down that path, why not mix in jailbreaking and using various approaches to claim texting, data, tethering, etc can all be "free"?

I'm sure there are some people in the world who are given iPhones by- say- their company- and their company fully pays for that iPhone service plan, data, text, etc. Thus, they could argue that there are totally free iPhone and iPhone plans. In those cases, one might be able to argue that technically the iPhone is free and the company is paying them a salary to boot: not only do they get a "free" iPhone and a "free" plan but they are getting paid money as well.

But I'm talking about solutions for people that might not be able to play the hardware trickery game... or jailbreaking... or piggybacking on a family plan, etc. We're talking about iPod 4 vs. a hypothetical iPod 5 that may or may not have a 3G option and 3G iPad-like plans.

Even if someone wants to mix in other variables like piggybacking on a family plan, etc, they are still faced with the cost of a new iPhone with no contract vs. the cost of a new iPod. I'm sure you're aware that the cost difference between the 2 is enough to cover an iPad $25/month 3G plan for a whole year by itself.

So granted, if someone is in a situation where they can piggyback onto someones family plan (thus having someone paying for some of the obligation that would be theirs otherwise) and/or if they want to buy an iPad sim and then swap it out with the iPhone sim AND if they have some way to acquire an iPhone at or below the same cost as an iPod, then yes there is a way to make the iPhone option directly competitive with the perceived option of an iPod with 3G that I've been offering.

In our own case, we could buy our teen an iPhone and fully pay for an iPhone "everything" plan making it, in effect, all free from her point of view. But that offer isn't available to everyone else, including people like the original OP trying to decide between an iPod 4 and an iPod 5 (his parents may not be game to make it an iPhone with a plan for a couple of thousand dollars vs. paying for the gift of an iPod 4 vs. 5 at a few hundred dollars).

 

[forcetactic]

^See I knew I shouldn't have introduced the last aspect. Then you abandon your whole argument of trying to see a way of getting $15 on an iPhone and go on a different tangent. You were so insistent that there was no way it could be done. Then when I showed you a way, you will only find a way to criticize it.

Please don't talk about jailbreaking if you have no idea what it does. There is no way to get "free data, texting" etc with jailbreaking. Jailbreaking is just a way to unlock more of the features restricted by your OS: not get features that the carrier offers.

FYI 3gs are under ~$200 on craigslist no contract so that is a very viable option for using the iPad data. iPhone 4 run at ~$400 so the difference is not enough to pay for a whole year @ $25 as you've stated.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. I perfectly agree with your plan if OP does not have a cell phone. No arguments there. It's cheap. It saves a lot of money. It can almost do everything a cell phone can do. However, if he is already paying for a cell phone plan, I think my scenario is very valid.

Lastly, I hate it how you're claiming that an iPhone is a few thousand dollar present when an iPod touch is only a few hundred dollar present. If given the assumption that the OP already has a cell phone (which in my first post I was basing it on), the difference between a non 3g iPod touch and an iPhone is $180 a year ($15/month x 12 months). If we are to assume 3g is $15/month and iPod touch will get it and the OP will use it, then the difference is $0 a year.

 

[Liquinn]

Hmm, it's October next week, so we have to hear something soon...

 

[SHirsch999]

^See I knew I shouldn't have introduced the last aspect. Then you abandon your whole argument of trying to see a way of getting $15 on an iPhone and go on a different tangent. You were so insistent that there was no way it could be done. Then when I showed you a way, you will only find a way to criticize it.

Please don't talk about jailbreaking if you have no idea what it does. There is no way to get "free data, texting" etc with jailbreaking. Jailbreaking is just a way to unlock more of the features restricted by your OS: not get features that the carrier offers.

FYI 3gs are under ~$200 on craigslist no contract so that is a very viable option for using the iPad data. iPhone 4 run at ~$400 so the difference is not enough to pay for a whole year @ $25 as you've stated.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. I perfectly agree with your plan if OP does not have a cell phone. No arguments there. It's cheap. It saves a lot of money. It can almost do everything a cell phone can do. However, if he is already paying for a cell phone plan, I think my scenario is very valid.

Lastly, I hate it how you're claiming that an iPhone is a few thousand dollar present when an iPod touch is only a few hundred dollar present. If given the assumption that the OP already has a cell phone (which in my first post I was basing it on), the difference between a non 3g iPod touch and an iPhone is $180 a year ($15/month x 12 months). If we are to assume 3g is $15/month and iPod touch will get it and the OP will use it, then the difference is $0 a year.

I wanted to add my perspective into this debate, since at least in my case, your math is a bit off. My wife and I both have pay-as-you-go dumb phones, paying about $30-40/month for the total package. Adding 2 data plans at about $15 each or $30/month raises our total/month to $60-70. The cheapest family plan at this time would be around $100 ($70 for the calling plan plus $30 for 2 data plans on ATT, though we prefer Verizon). That right there is a savings of $30-40/month. The savings will be even higher since we will start making calls over VoIP using talkatone/GV (I already do this a bit) and therefore pay less for the dumb phone calls. This will likely cut that bill in half at least I would estimate, so add $15 onto the savings. We may also get rid of our home phone if the talkatone thing is working out, saving us about $30/mo more. Adding it all up we would be saving about $70-80/mo, or about $850-950 or so per year. This would more than make up the difference between the cost of a subsidized iphone and an ipod touch, especially over the 2-year contract.

 

[Invincibilizer]

People buy an iPod touch instead of an iPhone before the upfront cost of 229 299 399 can be paid and thats it while iPhone leads you in to a 2 year contract.

It doesn't matter if people can pay 3g on certain months and won't on other months. People could get an ipod with 3G and pay some moths for 3G but what about calling and everything else.

Most people supplement their ipod touches to their phones. Majority of people who think that ipod touch with 3G is a good idea does not realize that they would pay more its the phone contract and the 3g fee with the ipod touch.

I do not see people using ipod with 3g as their only device AND it wouldnt make sense from Apple. Why would apple allow 3G on the ipod touch so that it can make calls and watch their iphone sales go down.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

It doesn't matter if people can pay 3g on certain months and won't on other months. People could get an ipod with 3G and pay some moths for 3G...

I ran out of gas on the other arguments when the "it's the same with iPhone" turned into math that had other people paying for plans & such to help make it the same, buying an old used iPhone vs. a brand new iPod, etc. But I will take a crack at your questions/comments....

...but what about calling and everything else

If a person has tepid 3G needs like mine, they can use the VOIP apps with their free wifi- home or elsewhere. I just did this tonight from the Library and McDonalds. I did not pay for any 3G service but made voice calls via VOIP. The people on the other end were none the wiser.

Now, if I needed to make those calls but could not find any free wifi, I would have had to pay $15 to make them via the iPad 3G on demand plan. Thus, if I had to resort to 3G tonight, I would have had to spend $15 and that would have given me 3G for tonight as well as several more days into the future.

If I wanted to match that with an iPhone and I couldn't piggyback on someone's family plan, etc, I would have had to be hooked up to a voice plan from AT&T or Verizon. There is no way to do that for $15 only when I need 3G short of getting someone else to pay for plans and letting me piggyback onto theirs, and/or by buying someone's iPad 3G SIM and transporting it, etc. (my excitement in an Ipod 3G concept is not overly geeky or depending on other benefactors (for example, I can't piggyback onto my parent's family plan), etc).

As soon as I'm into a voice plan with an iPhone, I'm into it for 24 months. It could work out for me that I don't need 3G again for the entire 24 month term, but AT&T or Verizon will still want their $69+ per month. Not so with this iPad 3G plan. If I don't need 3G for the next 24 months, my total 3G bill will be $0.

If this iPod 5 comes with 3G and the iPad 3G on demand access plans, the iPad "monthly" (but only when you need it plan) is $25. iPhone monthly plans (billed whether you need it or not) starts at $69. For the parents of those texting teens who will want monthly 3G, the concept is $25 times 12 for this iPod solution vs. at least $69 times 12 for an iPhone solution. There's no special trickery in that simple math: nobody else is paying for a chunk of plan on which Junior can piggyback, no outdated and/or used iPods are purchased, etc. Junior gets to text and voip call for $25/month.

Most people supplement their ipod touches to their phones. Majority of people who think that ipod touch with 3G is a good idea does not realize that they would pay more its the phone contract and the 3g fee with the ipod touch.

I don't know how they would pay more unless you are limiting this to those "most people" you refer to who apparently have both an iPhone (and thus already pay the AT&T or Verizon 3G toll) AND an iPod (I really don't know any such people who would own both an iPhone and an iPod Touch but I'm sure there are some- maybe "many?" out there). If that's who this is aimed at, you're right. But the talk has been about a new iPod with 3G "mifi-like" data option built into it. Thus, there would be no need for an iPhone (too) for the segments I've offered (teens wanting to anytime text and occasionally voice call (via VOIP in this case)). Instead, it becomes a $25/month good solution for them/their parents vs. an at least $69 per month solution trying to do the same with an iPhone.

What really happens though is that the iPhone gets ruled out in many of these cases because the plan is just too expensive for Junior. So then the business goes to an iPod plus a mifi modem (with a cheap iPad like 3G data plan) or an Android device with a cheaper 3G plan option.

I do not see people using ipod with 3g as their only device AND it wouldnt make sense from Apple. Why would apple allow 3G on the ipod touch so that it can make calls and watch their iphone sales go down.

I too don't see everyone using an iPod 3G instead of an iPhone. I don't see this as a threat to iPhone. iPhone would still have many benefits over an iPod with 3G data options. Those who want an iPhone and can afford the plan would still buy an iPhone.

I see this iPod 3G concept as ideal for a number of niches that will NOT buy an iPhone because of the cost of the plans from AT&T & Verizon. Apple's not going to get THOSE sales anyway. So, Apple can roll out an iPod with 3G data and get money that is instead going to mifi device makers and Android. Those teens/tweens then accumulate lots of Apple apps over the next few years. And when they can afford a "real phone", they'll already be somewhat locked into the Apple ecosystem naturally motivating them to buy the iPhone 7 or 8. OR, Apple lets the penny-pinching parents give them Android 3G devices now, those teens lock into the Android ecosystem and then buy an Android phone as their first "real phone" in a couple of years.

In the short-term the spin from Apple is making iPod Touches have the same anywhere potential to connect to the iCloud and iMessage. In the longer term, this is locking in the next generation of first-time phone buyers to be biased toward an Apple iPhone 7 or 8 a few years from now.

That's why I can imagine Apple doing this. I don't see it hurting iPhone sales at all. VOIP is imagined as inferior to "real iPhone" voice. Texting apps is seen as inferior to "real iPhone" texting. iPhone has a lot of added value over an iPod such that 3G data alone does not kill the iPhone market or value proposition. I even doubt that many people would even get that they could use an iPod with 3G data in this way (casual observers are shocked that I can use an iPad or my laptop to make a voice call)... though many tweens & teens would get it and pitch their parents on buying them the new "iPod that has the mifi built inside of it" (when they can't talk their parents into spending a (cumulative) total of a couple of thousand on giving them an iPhone).

No one would be dumb to buy an iPhone instead of this hypothetical iPod. This is not an iPhone vs. iPod argument at all. This is a way for Apple to lock in a new segment of buyers instead of losing them to cheaper plan options via Android or mifi. That segment happens to be growing up toward being first-time "real phone" buyers in a few years. Get 'em now and they probably buy the iPhone 7 or 8. Let Android get them now and they probably buy an Android phone in a few years. The side benefit of unique apps from app stores is locking people into one ecosystem or the other. Apple should get them now.

 

[forcetactic]

I wanted to add my perspective into this debate, since at least in my case, your math is a bit off. My wife and I both have pay-as-you-go dumb phones, paying about $30-40/month for the total package. Adding 2 data plans at about $15 each or $30/month raises our total/month to $60-70. The cheapest family plan at this time would be around $100 ($70 for the calling plan plus $30 for 2 data plans on ATT, though we prefer Verizon). That right there is a savings of $30-40/month. The savings will be even higher since we will start making calls over VoIP using talkatone/GV (I already do this a bit) and therefore pay less for the dumb phone calls. This will likely cut that bill in half at least I would estimate, so add $15 onto the savings. We may also get rid of our home phone if the talkatone thing is working out, saving us about $30/mo more. Adding it all up we would be saving about $70-80/mo, or about $850-950 or so per year. This would more than make up the difference between the cost of a subsidized iphone and an ipod touch, especially over the 2-year contract.

You do bring a fair point. For VoIP as a home line, I'm currently using that and pay nothing because it's routed through my ISP. We use Omar and with an initial investment of ~$200 for the device, it has been working pretty solidly.

I have only been considering postpaid plans so I should have been more clear on that. My bad. With prepaid plans (like the one you're using if I'm understanding you correctly), it is very possible to save more. However, it's not fair to include home phone in the savings bc you could always cancel your home to use VOIP with a cell phone plan too. I do agree that $30-40 savings per month sounds about right.

People buy an iPod touch instead of an iPhone before the upfront cost of 229 299 399 can be paid and thats it while iPhone leads you in to a 2 year contract.

It doesn't matter if people can pay 3g on certain months and won't on other months. People could get an ipod with 3G and pay some moths for 3G but what about calling and everything else.

Most people supplement their ipod touches to their phones. Majority of people who think that ipod touch with 3G is a good idea does not realize that they would pay more its the phone contract and the 3g fee with the ipod touch.

I do not see people using ipod with 3g as their only device AND it wouldnt make sense from Apple. Why would apple allow 3G on the ipod touch so that it can make calls and watch their iphone sales go down.

Yeah, having VOIP is much more convenient for calling someone than it is for them to call you. If you're in an area with bad 3g, call quality will be terrible (if VOIP app allows calls over 3g). Compression is nowhere as good as a real phone although still very usable with decent wifi. It's a viable alternative if you want to give up reliability and convenience. Also agree with you on last part that iPod touch with 3g will possibly dent iPhone sales for those avoiding the 2 year contract.

 

[iEvolution]

If the 4th gen has the capacity and all the capabilities you want now then go for it.

However you say you want to see if the next one comes with 3G, in which case the current one doesn't suite your wants so I'd wait until October when the 5th gen is announced.

There hasn't been many rumors about the iPod Touch 5 and the only one we've really heard of is the larger screen (which looks like a bust) and white form factor.

You only have a few weeks left, I'd just wait to see what the new one brings (if any).

 

[iSimpsons]

Apprecciate all your replies guys - kept me entertained.

I'm going to wait and see what the fifth generation brings, even though I am aware that it isn't going to have 3G network capabilities this year (if there is going to be one). Right now I'm hoping on a better camera and the A5 chip.

 

[YMark]

Just so you don't get your hopes up THERE WILL NOT be an iPod touch with 3G CAPABILITIES. That would be a very stupid on Apple's part and on our part as buyers.

I hate it when people post drivel (which the above is) as fact. Just so you know... YOU DON'T KNOW squat about what the next gen iPod Touch will/won't have.

 

[TM WAZZA]

I hate it when people post drivel (which the above it) as fact. Just so you know... YOU DON'T KNOW squat about what the next gen iPod Touch will/won't have.

I remember when people used to say "There WILL not be an iPod touch with a camera. It will be too much like an iPhone and will take away the iPhone sales!"