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Waiting for gen 2 of rMB?

magbarn said:
I hope you're right, Intel's GPU performance hype has been only hype so far. If a modern game is getting 10fps on HD4000, even the latest Broadwell GPU's still can't push it over the 30fps barrier. Only Iris Pro with cache has given somewhat decent performance.
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On the whole Ive found intel graphics to be pretty good over the past few years... but I don't do any gaming on any of my notebooks... As long as my UI is nice and fluid Im a happy...

Despite the macbook airs having terrible screens, at least the UI transitions are fluid lol

I'm still on the fence with the rMB... i just really like the screen, I can feel my eyes are more relaxed... once you go retina its hard to go back... thats why i like using my rMBP so much but I'm lazy to carry it around as a device to use on the road that sits in my bag when needed, hence I have the 11 inch air
 
I just performed some tests on a Macbook Air and Macbook Pro that might be relevant to the rMB and UI usability and battery life.

I noticed that when measuring CPU and GPU activity/temperature using the intel power gadget that the GPU of the rMBP 13inch (2014, i5) increased its frequency in response to scrolling through a PDF of a research article (graphics and some text) whereas the Macbook Air 11 inch (2014, i5) did not.

The CPU/GPU package of the Air increased to about 50oC with constant scrolling whereas the rMBP went up to mid 80s oC.

I would think the display of the rMB will really be pushing the GPU of the Core-M package too.
 
Fuzzball84 said:
I know this will be a contentious issue...

I decided against buying the rMB last night... I have tried a few rMB in Apple and BB stores to make my mind up... I am going to stick with my 11 inch 2014 air and Pro and wait for gen 2 of the rMB...

Im sold on the size, screen, keyboard, trackpad etc even the ports, I think its fine given its intended usage model

Im not sold on the general performance (and I mean for web browsing, word, excel etc... light use)

What hit me is that when i went over to the Surface 3 and played about for a few minutes I instantly realized how laggy the UI is with the rMB (even with latest updates). The Surface 3 was fluid and responsive in its use for general interaction including web browsing, documents, window resizing, scrolling etc and the machine was still cool. Every rMB I have used starts to warm up significantly with the lightest of interaction.

This is just my 2 cents... what are other peoples opinions? anyone else decided to wait out for the second rMB? or see what happens of the rMBP?
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I'd say there's no point in buying if you don't need it or don't want it. I'm not only in the market for a portable Mac for college, I've been waiting for a MacBook Air with Retina Display, and what I got instead is better than I could've even imagined. So far happy with my purchase as I type on one. <3

I don't know why you wouldn't be sold on performance. Sounds like this machine does everything you need it to. I stress tested several new MacBooks in the stores before I ordered one, and they all exceeded my expectations in performance and battery stressing (I unplugged them all before stress testing to see how fast the battery might go).

I have yet to experience lag or significant warming on my new MacBook. I'm surprised you had that experience.


I see you already have an 11'' Air. If you're ready and want to upgrade, do it with the new MacBook. With the positives and the things you mentioned that you were "sold on" I really doubt you'd regret it. And, there's always that 14 day return policy at Apple (30 day return for Best Buy elite members like myself, just in case)! I compared my new MacBook with a buddy of mine's 11'' Air. There is hilarity in comparing the designs and screens of the two, the new MacBook looks ten years ahead and cranking the resolution to include "More Space" (as I did) makes the screen seem so much bigger than 12''.
 
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Dennison said:
I'd say there's no point in buying if you don't need it or don't want it. I'm not only in the market for a portable Mac for college, I've been waiting for a MacBook Air with Retina Display, and what I got instead is better than I could've even imagined. So far happy with my purchase as I type on one. <3

I don't know why you wouldn't be sold on performance. Sounds like this machine does everything you need it to. I stress tested several new MacBooks in the stores before I ordered one, and they all exceeded my expectations in performance and battery stressing (I unplugged them all before stress testing to see how fast the battery might go).

I have yet to experience lag or significant warming on my new MacBook. I'm surprised you had that experience.


I see you already have an 11'' Air. If you're ready and want to upgrade, do it with the new MacBook. With the positives and the things you mentioned that you were "sold on" I really doubt you'd regret it. And, there's always that 14 day return policy at Apple (30 day return for Best Buy elite members like myself, just in case)!
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Thanks... what did you find the battery performance to be like? so far... similar to the macbook air 11 inch? Im still on the fence about getting the rMB lol
 
Fuzzball84 said:
Thanks... what did you find the battery performance to be like? so far... similar to the macbook air 11 inch? Im still on the fence about getting the rMB lol
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I updated my post a bit to include another point or two. :p

I keep the return policy into consideration, but it doesn't mean I'm going to get rid of this thing. I love the new MacBook, and it's making me hate all of the outdated trackpads and keyboards that surround me! xD So as I test this new thing out, I'm on my fifth day of casual use. I haven't done a lot with it yet, but I've been busy and in my spare time I like to just relax on it and browse. :p

The only concern I have right now is the battery life. However, I'm only on my third or fourth cycle. Plus, I don't think I realize how often and how long I've been using it throughout the day. So maybe I should pay more attention to that in the next few days. I like to run things at full screen brightness, and crank YouTube clips at full resolution. It handles everything I throw at it.

Although I hate how Yosemite can't close full screened YouTube videos back into a full-screened Safari box properly. It always clips out into the original Desktop, then clips back into full-screen Safari. It makes this thing look bad, and I know it's a software bug, not a hardware shortcoming.

EDIT: I want to mention one or two more things.

I usually leave my charger at home, so I only plan on charging when needed. From my experience so far, USB-C is quite fast for charging. It reminds me of the iPhone 6 on the iPad sized chargers. The battery fills back up quick.
 
For the intended use of this machine, the Core M is just fine. I've been using my 1.2ghz model since Friday and I've been more than impressed for a machine that is this small. Then again I don't think I will ever do any serious gaming, video editing, etc. on it as I already have a good desktop rig. This isn't meant to be a primary machine, and the performance is more than adequate for web surfing, word processing, music, light gaming, and light photo editing. There is a bit of UI lag yes, but I feel that is to be expected with new products sometimes. Its the first new notebook apple has made in years, and for a gen 1 product I think they did a great job.
 
Dennison said:
I updated my post a bit to include another point or two. :p

I keep the return policy into consideration, but it doesn't mean I'm going to get rid of this thing. I love the new MacBook, and it's making me hate all of the outdated trackpads and keyboards that surround me! xD So as I test this new thing out, I'm on my fifth day of casual use. I haven't done a lot with it yet, but I've been busy and in my spare time I like to just relax on it and browse. :p

The only concern I have right now is the battery life. However, I'm only on my third or fourth cycle. Plus, I don't think I realize how often and how long I've been using it throughout the day. So maybe I should pay more attention to that in the next few days. I like to run things at full screen brightness, and crank YouTube clips at full resolution. It handles everything I throw at it.

Although I hate how Yosemite can't close full screened YouTube videos back into a full-screened Safari box properly. It always clips out into the original Desktop, then clips back into full-screen Safari. It makes this thing look bad, and I know it's a software bug, not a hardware shortcoming.
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Awesome :)

I think if I can confirm with a few people that its battery is good for the same use as 11 inch Air that I'd be sold... After looking into things, I think the performance issues I'm having could be ironed out in software... general CPU performance appears great...

after all the Core-M is driving a retina class display and some of the UI fluidity I was having issues with could be ironed out in future software updates... I occasionally see this on my rMBP when scrolling through PDFs and I know a few others on here complain about UI issues, but in the grand scheme of things working on word documents with retina screen is priceless
 
Fuzzball84 said:
Awesome :)

I think if I can confirm with a few people that its battery is good for the same use as 11 inch Air that I'd be sold... After looking into things, I think the performance issues I'm having could be ironed out in software... general CPU performance appears great...

after all the Core-M is driving a retina class display and some of the UI fluidity I was having issues with could be ironed out in future software updates... I occasionally see this on my rMBP when scrolling through PDFs and I know a few others on here complain about UI issues, but in the grand scheme of things working on word documents with retina screen is priceless
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There's been many people on here who were originally going to get the Air, but once they saw the rMB in person they quickly changed their mind. The Retina screen alone should sway you towards the rMB.
 
Fuzzball84 said:
Awesome :)

I think if I can confirm with a few people that its battery is good for the same use as 11 inch Air that I'd be sold... After looking into things, I think the performance issues I'm having could be ironed out in software... general CPU performance appears great...

after all the Core-M is driving a retina class display and some of the UI fluidity I was having issues with could be ironed out in future software updates... I occasionally see this on my rMBP when scrolling through PDFs and I know a few others on here complain about UI issues, but in the grand scheme of things working on word documents with retina screen is priceless
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From Apple's advertised 9-10hrs, to the reviewer's experiences with 7-9hrs, I would be confident enough to say the battery life is definitely good enough. Hell, this is a huge upgrade for me from my first MacBook back in 2007, which got 2-4hrs after I'd unplug it.

I also agree, it appears any lag or bugginess that I experience (which is rare) is clearly due to some roughness in Yosemite. Apple is probably learning more and more everyday in how to get OS X to run best on this thing, so I expect improvements quite shortly.

PDFierro said:
There's been many people on here who were originally going to get the Air, but once they saw the rMB in person they quickly changed their mind. The Retina screen alone should sway you towards the rMB.
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And, yes, the Retina Display is the best thing about this new MacBook, maybe even 2nd place because of the astonishing design. For myself, and many, it rules out the MacBook Airs entirely, even as a choice, and puts them in a category of affordability over cutting edge.
 
Dennison said:
Although I hate how Yosemite can't close full screened YouTube videos back into a full-screened Safari box properly. It always clips out into the original Desktop, then clips back into full-screen Safari. It makes this thing look bad, and I know it's a software bug, not a hardware shortcoming.
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I hate this too, Apple should make their non-flash experience better. I always end up just pinching in to zoom the website to almost full screen.
 
PDFierro said:
That's kind of a ridiculous assumption to make. No way is Skylake going to make the first-en rMB obsolete. The rMB has already proven that it has enough performance.
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The 12" MacBook was never designed for Broadwell. It was always designed for Skylake. Apple had to bung a Broadwell part in the end as their product roadmap no longer tied in with Intel's.
 
Skylake biggest improvement for the rMB will most likely be in an improved GPU.

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Steve121178 said:
The 12" MacBook was never designed for Broadwell. It was always designed for Skylake. Apple had to bung a Broadwell part in the end as their product roadmap no longer tied in with Intel's.
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I think it was meant for Broadwell. Do you have a source or is that a guess?
 
Steve121178 said:
The 12" MacBook was never designed for Broadwell. It was always designed for Skylake. Apple had to bung a Broadwell part in the end as their product roadmap no longer tied in with Intel's.
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I too would like to know how you came up with this. It seems to me that it was designed around the specific advantages brought by the Broadwell Core M.
 
redheeler said:
I too would like to know how you came up with this. It seems to me that the specific advantages brought by the Broadwell Core M are perfect for the rMB's thin, fanless design.
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Without getting into specifics, the 12" MacBook had been planned for a very long time and at the planning stage Skylake CPU's should have been available since Q4 '14 / Q1 '15 latest. Apple had a product ready to go without the CPU it was designed for. Apple (and many other vendors) have had Skylake samples since early 2014 which is what they based the 12" MB around. Obviously Skylake won't appear until Q4 2015, so Apple have had to throw in a CPU that was actually designed for thin & light Windows 8 based tablets instead.

I know Asus & others have used the Y Series CPU's in notebooks, but it was actually meant to be for tablets. That's why you are seeing steady but not exceptional performance in a notebook right now.
 
Steve121178 said:
Without getting into specifics, the 12" MacBook had been planned for a very long time and at the planning stage Skylake CPU's should have been available since Q4 '14 / Q1 '15 latest. Apple had a product ready to go without the CPU it was designed for. Apple (and many other vendors) have had Skylake samples since early 2014 which is what they based the 12" MB around. Obviously Skylake won't appear until Q4 2015, so Apple have had to throw in a CPU that was actually designed for thin & light Windows 8 based tablets instead.

I know Asus & others have used the Y Series CPU's in notebooks, but it was actually meant to be for tablets. That's why you are seeing steady but not exceptional performance in a notebook right now.
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What? Even if Skylake wasn't delayed, a normal Skylake U-class processor would not fit in the chassis of the 12" MacBook, let alone without a fan!

We will probably see better battery life, improved cpu performance, but most of all, improved GPU performance. If Apple can implement DDR4 and wireless charging than the MacBook will be flying.
 
SSD-GUY said:
Which is basically the Core M version of Skylake? I don't see what you're getting at other than the fact sky lake was delayed so they banged a broad well core M in there instead?
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Ok, to put it bluntly as technically isn't working. the Broadwell part is significantly gimped in comparison to the Skylake processor which should have been inside the machine.

I'm not saying the Skylake Y Series chips are going to rip up trees, but they will be more powerful in comparison and give a significantly better user experience, be it in Windows, OS X or Linux. In a nutshell, the Broadwell Y Series chips are not very good, hence all the observations & complaints or pretty poor performance overall. Some of the Broadwell Y Series chips used in PC's have restricted themselves to just 400MHz once the machines become hot and this has led to appalling performance, read some reviews where this is well documented.

So it goes back to what I was saying, Broadwell Core-M chips (to give their official name) are not very good and I worry how they will stand up and cope with latter versions of OS X, Windows etc and more demanding applications as they are barely cutting it right now.
 
Steve121178 said:
Ok, to put it bluntly as technically isn't working. the Broadwell part is significantly gimped in comparison to the Skylake processor which should have been inside the machine.

I'm not saying the Skylake Y Series chips are going to rip up trees, but they will be more powerful in comparison and give a significantly better user experience, be it in Windows, OS X or Linux. In a nutshell, the Broadwell Y Series chips are not very good, hence all the observations & complaints or pretty poor performance overall. Some of the Broadwell Y Series chips used in PC's have restricted themselves to just 400MHz once the machines become hot and this has led to appalling performance, read some reviews where this is well documented.

So it goes back to what I was saying, Broadwell Core-M chips (to give their official name) are not very good and I worry how they will stand up and cope with latter versions of OS X, Windows etc and more demanding applications as they are barely cutting it right now.
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The difference between skylake Core M and Broadwell Core M isn't massive. From what I've read, I expect to see the normal changes between generations, i.e, 10% give or take jump in cpu performance, same with battery life, less power usage etc. GPU performance will be perhaps the biggest improvement. I've also seen a chart online which even shows that Skylake Core M will be using DDR3 whereas the higher TDP parts, I think reserved for the processors in the 15" rMBP will be using DDR4.

If you've read or seen something else please share.
 
SSD-GUY said:
The difference between skylake Core M and Broadwell Core M isn't massive. From what I've read, I expect to see the normal changes between generations, i.e, 10% give or take jump in cpu performance, same with battery life, less power usage etc. GPU performance will be perhaps the biggest improvement. I've also seen a chart online which even shows that Skylake Core M will be using DDR3 whereas the higher TDP parts, I think reserved for the processors in the 15" rMBP will be using DDR4.

If you've read or seen something else please share.
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I've seen the same exact information on Skylake that you have. The GPU is where the biggest improvements will be.
 
I love the one I have now. I did a clean install and did NOT run any benchmarks or speed tests. I never went looking for shortcomings. And for me, the current one works great!
 
I have to admit the only things putting me off buying are the battery life and reported temps of the CPU getting unto 90+ oC. I like everything else about the machine...

Does anyone have any links to reviews where they have tested battery life compared to rMBP 13 inch and the two Macbook Airs (2014 or 2015 versions)?
 
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