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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

CWallace said:
The issue with going 6 or 8 cores now is that it would have to be Broadwell-E because Skylake-X is not yet shipping, which as already noted means a different motherboard (Socket 1150 vs Socket 1151 on Skylake) and different RAM which is going to increase Apple's stocking costs.
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It shouldn't have raised the stocking costs any more than the 'announced' iMac Pro. The 6 and 8 core system I was suggesting should have been the iMac Pro release (the perfect mid step between the 4 core iMac and the 2018/19 Mac Pro - though they could have left the 6 and 8 core iMacs in the regular iMac line-up (read not calling them iMac Pros), just released the 6 and 8 core versions in July when those Skylake X chips would be shipping. Not a big deal - Apple announces products and releases them several weeks later all the time...

Actually inventory would have been less, since Apple wouldn't have to stock different colored cases and peripherals for the iMac line-up. :p


And of course the second Skylake-X does ship, this forum will start moaning about Apple using "old technology" and charging an arm and a leg for it. :p

...Then you wouldn't have to worry about the forum moaning about using "old technology"....at least not for a few months. ;)

There are two things that would have been fantastic about this.

1) The 6 and 8 core regular iMacs would have been cheap enough as a stop-gap for those waiting for the modular Mac Pro, but wanted a system with more cores than a 4-cores - and it would have been a step up from the 2013 8-core Mac Pro.

2) It would have been the perfect system for the Pro iMac users who wanted something more than a 4-core iMac, but won't spend so much on the 'announced' iMac Pro, nor the upcoming Mac Pro. **Raises hand**

...or three things...

3) This set up would have left a LOT of room for Apple cover a fairly wide gamut of users for the modular Mac Pro, so they wouldn't cannibalize the 'announced' iMac Pro.

:)
 
scoobs69 said:
It shouldn't have raised the stocking costs any more than the 'announced' iMac Pro. The 6 and 8 core system I was suggesting should have been the iMac Pro release (the perfect mid step between the 4 core iMac and the 2018/19 Mac Pro - though they could have left the 6 and 8 core iMacs in the regular iMac line-up (read not calling them iMac Pros), just released the 6 and 8 core versions in July when those Skylake X chips would be shipping. Not a big deal - Apple announces products and releases them several weeks later all the time...

Actually inventory would have been less, since Apple wouldn't have to stock different colored cases and peripherals for the iMac line-up. :p


And of course the second Skylake-X does ship, this forum will start moaning about Apple using "old technology" and charging an arm and a leg for it. :p

...Then you wouldn't have to worry about the forum moaning about using "old technology"....at least not for a few months. ;)

There are two things that would have been fantastic about this.

1) The 6 and 8 core regular iMacs would have been cheap enough as a stop-gap for those waiting for the modular Mac Pro, but wanted a system with more cores than a 4-cores - and it would have been a step up from the 2013 8-core Mac Pro.

2) It would have been the perfect system for the Pro iMac users who wanted something more than a 4-core iMac, but won't spend so much on the 'announced' iMac Pro, nor the upcoming Mac Pro. **Raises hand**

...or three things...

3) This set up would have left a LOT of room for Apple cover a fairly wide gamut of users for the modular Mac Pro, so they wouldn't cannibalize the 'announced' iMac Pro.

:)
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I think there's no regular iMac with 6 cores because the iMac Pro will be on a different (X299) chipset. and they don't think a 6 is worth it compared to an 8.
 
Little disappointing the iMac Pro isn't going 8k (yet) but it is a rush job so it's not surprising. On the other hand, the iMac Pro will now sit in the price range formerly occupied by the nMP, freeing up the nnMP to become the "Ultrapro", for better (higher ceiling) and worse (higher pricing).

FWIW I suspect the advantages of the thermal core will be difficult to give up: for all the faults of the nMP as a system, the basic design remains a very, very, very nice--and very, very quiet--way to keep 400W of tightly-packed compute hardware running cool (note: using 400W here is a cheap shot, but it's fair).

If you want to visualize tomorrow's nnMP, today, your best bet is to (1) remove the cylindrical exterior casing, (2) use the "clone" tool to plop down another 1-2 adjacent thermal cores (including the fan, etc., and for a total of 2-3), (3) imagine suitable connecting circuitry between the cores, and finally (4) assume some aesthetically-pleasing casing will be wrapped around the whole thing (perhaps resembling a "jet pack" if it has 2 modules or 3 modules in a line, or a rounded triangle if it's 3 in a triangle, etc.).

One core will adjusted to be a CPU-only core: one or two CPU boards where the GPUs sit currently--case adjusted to accommodate RAM over each--and the smaller third board holding the I/O (all the chips for thunderbolt, 10G Ethernet, and so on) and side-by-side slots for dual ssds.

The remaining core or cores will be for GPUs: custom modules pairing custom GPU board(s) and the custom connector boards with custom-fitted thermal cores; these modules are made be "dropped in" into the case and over the fan(s) adjacent to the CPU core module. A single "strong GPU" module would sandwich the GPU board inside the thermal core, whereas a dual-GPU module would resemble the current thermal core (but with higher headroom due to not having to also accommodate a CPU).

If AMD actually delivers with Epyc it'll be hard to not go that route for the possibility of 128 pcie lanes: by my count that's more than enough for up to four full-speed internal GPUs and 6 full-speed tb3 lanes, leaving another sixteen lanes for everything else (enough for the dual ssds, built-in USB, Bluetooth, wifi, and 10G Ethernet, I think).

Note that if you want Nvidia, you can always go eGPU!

Or something along those lines.
 
William Payne said:
May I ask what the appeal is of installing it now before its even properly released yet? For me Beta means "Not ready yet".
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As discussed ad nauseam here and elsewhere, tons of people want to stay on the Mac, but the GPU offerings are weak. eGPU offers a pathway to remain on the Mac until more powerful machines are released. Many of the risks can be greatly mitigated by competent IT support, and some folks find these risks acceptable in a production environment. Folks are using eGPU right now to boost productivity and earn money folks, official support or no.

SeaCaptainBiscuit said:
Little disappointing the iMac Pro isn't going 8k (yet) but it is a rush job so it's not surprising. On the other hand, the iMac Pro will now sit in the price range formerly occupied by the nMP, freeing up the nnMP to become the "Ultrapro", for better (higher ceiling) and worse (higher pricing).

FWIW I suspect the advantages of the thermal core will be difficult to give up: for all the faults of the nMP as a system, the basic design remains a very, very, very nice--and very, very quiet--way to keep 400W of tightly-packed compute hardware running cool (note: using 400W here is a cheap shot, but it's fair).

If you want to visualize tomorrow's nnMP, today, your best bet is to (1) remove the cylindrical exterior casing, (2) use the "clone" tool to plop down another 1-2 adjacent thermal cores (including the fan, etc., and for a total of 2-3), (3) imagine suitable connecting circuitry between the cores, and finally (4) assume some aesthetically-pleasing casing will be wrapped around the whole thing (perhaps resembling a "jet pack" if it has 2 modules or 3 modules in a line, or a rounded triangle if it's 3 in a triangle, etc.).

One core will adjusted to be a CPU-only core: one or two CPU boards where the GPUs sit currently--case adjusted to accommodate RAM over each--and the smaller third board holding the I/O (all the chips for thunderbolt, 10G Ethernet, and so on) and side-by-side slots for dual ssds.

The remaining core or cores will be for GPUs: custom modules pairing custom GPU board(s) and the custom connector boards with custom-fitted thermal cores; these modules are made be "dropped in" into the case and over the fan(s) adjacent to the CPU core module. A single "strong GPU" module would sandwich the GPU board inside the thermal core, whereas a dual-GPU module would resemble the current thermal core (but with higher headroom due to not having to also accommodate a CPU).

If AMD actually delivers with Epyc it'll be hard to not go that route for the possibility of 128 pcie lanes: by my count that's more than enough for up to four full-speed internal GPUs and 6 full-speed tb3 lanes, leaving another sixteen lanes for everything else (enough for the dual ssds, built-in USB, Bluetooth, wifi, and 10G Ethernet, I think).

Note that if you want Nvidia, you can always go eGPU!

Or something along those lines.
Click to expand...
I don't think the iMac Pro is a rush job at all. Apple uses the system configuration data sent to them. Customers must have asked for, or Apple saw a niche that needed to be filled. We have firms salivating to buy. I also think the 7,1 will start lower and end much much higher $$ than iMac Pro - it practically has to.

The numbers may never be released, but I can imagine the vast number of cMPs sold never saw a PCIe card installed. This emboldened Apple to drop internal expansion on nMP. They didn't count on the power users being so outspoken, and they realized that it's worth keeping a proper box around for us, even though sales volume is (paraphrasing from the town hall here) firmly in the single digits.

I sincerely hope we do not see any custom GPU modules, etc. We want and need "Commercial Off The Shelf Parts". And if I want to go Nvidia, eGPU shouldn't be my only avenue on a Mac Pro. That is an arbitrary restriction that has no place in a pro machine.

I think they learned their lesson with nMP. I'm expecting a return to the cMP value proposition. Of course it will be striking to look at and come with a few head scratching design choices...

Now that I'm rambling, one other thing I'd really like to see: locking Thunderbolt connectors. Not very "pro" when you can't unplug a single connector without fear of knocking your RAID offline. Those things jiggle the slightest bit and boom. They're all like that.
 
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fuchsdh said:
I'm of two minds on what the iMac Pro means for the Mac Pro eventuality.

On one hand, it's clear that at one point, this was going to be the pro computer. So either they're designing the Mac Pro to hit the same niche but headless, or they're going to aim for something a bit different.
[snip]
Click to expand...

It must be the latter. If the next Pro was intended to essentially be a headless iMac Pro, it couldn't possibly take a year to design, even at Jony Ive's leisurely pace.
 
I'm buying an iMac 27 regular, I'll skipt the iMac Pro, I'm watching eGPU developent about nVidia If I manage to run a 1080 on it and run/debug CUDA from macOS over TBv3, I'll upgrade to the Mac Pro only if it comes with nVidia GPU option
 
I don't think the iMac Pro was a rush job, much the contrary, very well thought out.
Let's see the heat but again it seems another engineering feat for Apple.
The mMP on the other hand wasn't supposed to be I guess, but the loud crying made them go back to the drawing board.
 
MH01 said:
With the iMac pro starting 5K.......give Timmy some credit, 7.5k entry level....fully loaded and soldered config 20K..... :p
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Lol. I'll give credit for updating imacs...but that 20k for fully updated and eventually being outdated in couples of years is considered consumer abuse.........lol
 
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pat500000 said:
Lol. I'll give credit for updating imacs...but that 20k for fully updated and eventually being outdated in couples of years is considered consumer abuse.........lol
Click to expand...

What are you talking about.... my 2013 Mac Pro .... is state if the art..... easy 5 years.... might hit obsolete as current model
 
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I am starting to think that Apple is working to bring Promotion to the TB3D. Maybe it's time Apple breaks the threshold of 60Hz on computer screens. :)
 
askunk said:
I am starting to think that Apple is working to bring Promotion to the TB3D. Maybe it's time Apple breaks the threshold of 60Hz on computer screens. :)
Click to expand...
4K - sure. 4K@120 Hz is possible with HDMI 2.1. It is also enough to run 8K@60 Hz.
I don't remember what is required to run 5K@120Hz.
 
koyoot said:
4K - sure. 4K@120 Hz is possible with HDMI 2.1. It is also enough to run 8K@60 Hz.
I don't remember what is required to run 5K@120Hz.
Click to expand...

Well DP 1.4 cannot do it (it runs 5K and 8K at 60Hz) so maybe DisplayPort 1.5? Might need Thunderbolt 4 or a better HDMI spec.
 
Yeah it's going to take a while for 120Hz displays to catch on. Even now they and the 144Hz variants basically just gaming-focused, and I don't think I've even seen any 4K ones (they usually top out at 1440p because it's not like most demanding games can be run at those frame rates and resolutions anyhow.)

The TB3 spec is the weird weak link in that it requires two ports to do a lot of stuff. I dunno if Apple and Intel would roll a DP update.
 
SeaCaptainBiscuit said:
Little disappointing the iMac Pro isn't going 8k (yet) but it is a rush job so it's not surprising. On the other hand, the iMac Pro will now sit in the price range formerly occupied by the nMP, freeing up the nnMP to become the "Ultrapro", for better (higher ceiling) and worse (higher pricing).

FWIW I suspect the advantages of the thermal core will be difficult to give up: for all the faults of the nMP as a system, the basic design remains a very, very, very nice--and very, very quiet--way to keep 400W of tightly-packed compute hardware running cool (note: using 400W here is a cheap shot, but it's fair).

If you want to visualize tomorrow's nnMP, today, your best bet is to (1) remove the cylindrical exterior casing, (2) use the "clone" tool to plop down another 1-2 adjacent thermal cores (including the fan, etc., and for a total of 2-3), (3) imagine suitable connecting circuitry between the cores, and finally (4) assume some aesthetically-pleasing casing will be wrapped around the whole thing (perhaps resembling a "jet pack" if it has 2 modules or 3 modules in a line, or a rounded triangle if it's 3 in a triangle, etc.).

One core will adjusted to be a CPU-only core: one or two CPU boards where the GPUs sit currently--case adjusted to accommodate RAM over each--and the smaller third board holding the I/O (all the chips for thunderbolt, 10G Ethernet, and so on) and side-by-side slots for dual ssds.

The remaining core or cores will be for GPUs: custom modules pairing custom GPU board(s) and the custom connector boards with custom-fitted thermal cores; these modules are made be "dropped in" into the case and over the fan(s) adjacent to the CPU core module. A single "strong GPU" module would sandwich the GPU board inside the thermal core, whereas a dual-GPU module would resemble the current thermal core (but with higher headroom due to not having to also accommodate a CPU).

If AMD actually delivers with Epyc it'll be hard to not go that route for the possibility of 128 pcie lanes: by my count that's more than enough for up to four full-speed internal GPUs and 6 full-speed tb3 lanes, leaving another sixteen lanes for everything else (enough for the dual ssds, built-in USB, Bluetooth, wifi, and 10G Ethernet, I think).

Note that if you want Nvidia, you can always go eGPU!

Or something along those lines.
Click to expand...
Even an lower end 64 pci-e cpu can have 2 video cards + 4 storage cards + 10G-E-NET 3 TB 3 buses.
 
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