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I was under the impression that newer Macs have adopted the GOP EFI protocol which should be able to do boot screens on PC cards...
Adding bits and pieces of UEFI to their bastard EFI is not supporting standards.

There is an industry standard for advanced BIOS. You can't defend Apple for sticking to a deprecated proprietary branch of the standard.

It's vendor lock-in - pure and simple.
 
Adding bits and pieces of UEFI to their bastard EFI is not supporting standards.

There is an industry standard for advanced BIOS. You can't defend Apple for sticking to a deprecated proprietary branch of the standard.

It's vendor lock-in - pure and simple.

But... what's the reason for them to ship a pure UEFI firmware? I don't get the ask here. They don't need a pure UEFI firmware to support PC GPU boot screens.
 
But... what's the reason for them to ship a pure UEFI firmware? I don't get the ask here. They don't need a pure UEFI firmware to support PC GPU boot screens.
What about RAID controllers, FibreChannel adapters, iSCSI booting - and any other device that wants to have a UEFI extension to run at boot time?

What about GPUs needing to deal with differences between the UEFI spec and Apple's bastard implementation of EFI?

It would probably be simpler and cheaper for Apple to use *standard* UEFI rather than engineering their own proprietary offshoot of a very old EFI spec.

It's so funny that my servers and workstations run fine (including boot screens) with random assortments of Maxwell and Pascal Titans on UEFI systems - yet an Apple may need a GT120 or a custom-flashed card to be usable on their bastard EFI.
 
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Apple just needs to adopt UEFI....

I don't disagree, but priority-wise, Apple needs to primarily: at minimum, allow for the U.S.A. based end user to purchase from Newegg whatever new standard PCIe video card that they prefer, and install it in their MacPro machine by their own self. If they (Apple) want to obstinately keep requiring use of special "Mac only" video card firmware (but standard PCIe form-factor), in order to maintain some semblance of control over the macOS ecosystem, then that's a secondary design choice to be argued over.
In other words: try and separate out Apple's choices, and make it easier for Apple's design committee to make at least one good decision, instead of potentially having the entire checklist of "preferred features" being nixed.
 
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even if again, they take it in a direction that doesn't prove well, they're going in that direction..

Which is ironic, given the regularity with which Ive would go on about design being about how something works, rather than how something looks, yet superficial "appearance-centric" design has been the ethos for the Mac line for years.
 
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Which is ironic, given the regularity with which Ive would go on about design being about how something works, rather than how something looks, yet superficial "appearance-centric" design has been the ethos for the Mac line for years.
their goal is form follows function..
that's pretty obvious, if you would pay attention.

i don't know where you're getting your info but Macs work very well.. iPhones work very well.

---
and the design is sweet too.

or hey, maybe let's not get into a subjective back and forth about design, ok? you already know the outcome of that, right?

i'm always down to talk about design and/or Apple designs but i can't find the energy anymore if the depth goes as far as:

"no it's not"
"yes it is"
"nope.. i don't like it"
"yep, i like it"
"Jony Ive sux!!1!"
 
their goal is form follows function..
that's pretty obvious, if you would pay attention.

right, but the 2013 didn't function - it was fatally compromised by meeting a form goal in terms of size, not a function goal. Likewise, iMacs suffer thermal issues, by meeting a form goal of thinness, not a function goal of sustained quiet performance, Macbooks suffer battery life / ram capacity functional shortfalls, by trying to meet a form goal of thinness.

They say their goal is form follows function, their products are clearly form dictates function.
 
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right, but the 2013 didn't function - it was fatally compromised by meeting a form goal in terms of size, not a function goal.
they effed up.. on something they were originally very proud of and believed to be the MacPro for the next decade.
major mistake.

and what i meant in my original response was... they'll do that again but hopefully not mess up next time.
they're not going to be like "well, MP6 didn't work out as we thought.. so we should play it safe and make an HP clone"


Likewise, iMacs suffer thermal issues, by meeting a form goal of thinness, not a function goal of sustained quiet performance

meh.. iMacs are super fast and they're quiet and completely capable of sustained (daily/weekly/yearly) usage.
i mean, i'm definitely a power user and i use an iMac all the time.. it's fine.. sweet even.

what, are you talking --like a percentage of a percentage use case? or what?


don't get an iMac if you're wanting to put sustained loads for long times.. and not because of heat or noise or throttling.. but because it only has four cores and you've got yourself a mega core workload.. but this is obvious, right?

Macbooks suffer battery life / ram capacity functional shortfalls, by trying to meet a form goal of thinness.
here's the problem.
you keep describing these computers to me and how they suck or whatever..
except i use them every single day.. professionally..
:rolleyes:

so what else do you want to tell me about that you probably don't do and i do do
?

or what, try the condescending angle of "well you're not a real pro then"?
that's always a fun one.
 
except i use them every single day.. professionally..

great, so they work for you. Here's the thing though, would they cease to work for you in any meaningful way, if they were more focussed on capability, and sacrificed aesthetics to a greater degree? People worked successfully with thicker laptops (and desktops) for years, it's not like the thin-ening of the past 6 years on the Mac has actually made whole categories of use cases possible that weren't previously.

As the great TISM once said, "too much focus, leads to tunnel-vision...too many guitar solos lead to jazz-fusion"
 
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great, so they work for you. Here's the thing though, would they cease to work for you in any meaningful way, if they were more focussed on capability, and sacrificed aesthetics to a greater degree? People worked successfully with thicker laptops (and desktops) for years, it's not like the thin-ening of the past 6 years on the Mac has actually made whole categories of use cases possible that weren't previously.

As the great TISM once said, "too much focus, leads to tunnel-vision...too many guitar solos lead to jazz-fusion"

one of the main things i like about iMac form is that there's effectively, no computer.. also, i carry a 15"MBP 2-3miles per day.

so, yes.. both a heavier/thicker laptop and sacrificed aesthetics on my particular desktop wouldn't be welcomed by myself.

---------
what would happen if you had to use a 2017 iMac or MBP? out of curiosity ?
 
what would happen if you had to use a 2017 iMac or MBP? out of curiosity ?

My photo renders use 24gb of ram (what's left over after other apps are running) and max out the processors on dual 6 core 3ghz xeons, so it would be problematic I expect.

but again, I wouldn't spend my money on an iMac, or a MBP other than perhaps the 13" non-touchbar model, which is the most-portable portable (practical) mac, and then not until eGPU is turnkey, but my portable use is more skewed towards iPad - heavy duty (mac) isn't something i really need to do out of studio.
 
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you get paid to make those?

In the past I've done QTVR panoramics with the mining industry for their educational materials (probably wouldn't do that these days for ethical reasons), but no, this is a fine art thing. Unfortunately that's the Art reality - you need the same equipment and space commercial industries use, but don't tend to have have the commercial returns on it.
 
I was under the impression that newer Macs have adopted the GOP EFI protocol which should be able to do boot screens on PC cards...

The problem is there is no new Mac Pro with a PCIe slot.
[doublepost=1508883100][/doublepost]

The old Mac Pro also paid for itself easily because they could go 2-3 years on a board layout. The upgrades from a 4,1->5,1 and 1,1->2,1 were basically free. The 3,1 wasn't even an elaborate change over the 2,1.

When Apple talks about modular, that's a big thing they mean. They can do upgrades quickly without putting much investment in.

(Also why the cMP was continually stuck on SATA2.)
SATA2 to SATA3 just needed an newer chipset or maybe it had something to do with the raid card routeing.
 
my icon is a 360x180 degree panorama rendered as a little planet that is 15x15feet or 21x11 feet as equirectangular at 300dpi native resolution.
i could of hired your stitching expertise this month.
printing a backdrop onto canvas 10'x25'..
ended up using a high res single frame from shutterstock..
was able to get it up to about 30dpi :)

i definitely needed a stitched pano but just couldn't find a commercial use stock image that was to proper spec and proper content. oh well.
 
Aiden. You just want a BIOS GUI to play with.

:p
Actually, I only have a couple of NUCs with GUI BIOS interfaces. Everything else is old-school "CURSES" ANSI text stuff. (Except, of course, for the ProLiants which have an HTTP web interface for many BIOS functions. In fact, there's a 20 year old standard for remote BIOS management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface .)

Why does Apple want to make it so difficult to plug a random GPU into the cMP that you've paid for?
 
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i could of hired your stitching expertise this month.
printing a backdrop onto canvas 10'x25'..

Ha, I'm actually going to a local VR symposium in a couple of weeks, planning to ask if people need high resolution backgrounds / skyboxes (and whether CG stuff is "good enough"). Ahh well, next time :)
 
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Actually, I only have a couple of NUCs with GUI BIOS interfaces. Everything else is old-school "CURSES" ANSI text stuff. (Except, of course, for the ProLiants which have an HTTP web interface for many BIOS functions. In fact, there's a 20 year old standard for remote BIOS management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface .)

Why does Apple want to make it so difficult to plug a random GPU into the cMP that you've paid for?


Why ?
For a very , very long time Apple wasn't concerned about high end graphics and the hybrid Unix OS didn't help.

Now it seems they are getting into AI and AR so they are pushing graphics as the priority .
 
I think, whether for better or worse, it's very hard for Apple to release something "Normal" - we all think of the cMP in that way, but at the time it wasn't quite. It was far better constructed, better designed and more easy to mess around with than pretty much any PC tower at the time. Of course, that's long since changed. But I guess my point is - I don't see them building something that *isn't* special or revolutionary or at least unique in some way. That's just how they've always done things. However, as well all know, this is sort of a commodity space...it's mostly about what's inside.

I still think the nMP was a cool design, and had its place. If it was extensible, might've even made a great lower-end machine to keep on with. But, at this level, really what matters is power, stability, ability to handle working 24x7 for years at a time. I think maybe they spend too much time beating their heads against the wall trying to figure out how to make something that differentiates itself from HP, Dell, Lenovo black boxes. I think they still could, but I hope this time they lean far more towards what's needed and less in the direction of "changing the world" - that's sort of always been their strong suit, and this is perhaps the one segment in tech where that's not really helpful or useful.

I find it funny how everyone is making up a definition for "modular" and then getting angry at Apple before we even know what the hell it means. I think it's quite clear they've learned their lesson, and it's also pretty obvious they wouldn't have used that word if it merely referred to how it was assembled on the production line as some have so ridiculously asserted. If anything, the fact that they're willing to go back to the drawing board should be seen as a big positive...they're not going to make the same mistake twice...they'd have to be the stupidest company in the world to do that.

And, also...to the people who keep insisting they don't need pro parts...don't buy one. This isn't a gaming box. If you need a fast desktop, the iMac or iMac pro are what they provide. It's getting silly that after nearly a decade of the Mac Pro, people still think it's possible or even necessary for them to build a machine with consumer CPUs, only consumer GPUs, no ECC RAM, etc. Not going to happen. If they do it right, this will be a machine, as it always was, for serious work. I think it's about time we stop whining about the "xMac" - either the Mac Mini will get ditched for something entirely new in that space, or nothing will happen and you can keep buying the iMac or saving up for the Pro.
 
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