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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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I predicted the MP6,1 axing the cheesegrater and very compact FF (bu I think it would be a cube at that time), I'm not aa prestidigitator I just speculate on basis to the Information I got from h/w manufacturers which somehow leaks information on Apple sometimes just by warning some re-schedule or asking for something unusual to other manufacturers (as it was the thermal core, which gave me a solid clue on the tcMP to be really different MP.)Do we have a Mago running tally of your prediction accuracy rate?
Now, my information, is quite solid about Apple switching to AMD cpus at least an Apple-only APU, a relatively compact sub 900W mMP with some innovative cooling configuration (I think is about cartridge-like modularity), no liquid cooling, either thermal pipes, phase-change or copper fins. it may have at least 1 PCIe slot, or a PCIe slot adapter but not for GPU DIYers keep away, likely custom RyzenThreadripper's with options for 8/16/24/32 cores, quietest mac ever, in general, upgrades/updates will require some Apple blessing.
I have no idea on GPU vendors (AMD likely to keep exclusivity), neither actual system shape (only it will be very dense).
Wow!
Ok so I guess Apple is switching AMD...
Ok that seems like a change
Well that sounds like less than solid information
Ok cool thermal pipes.
Guess it's phase change now.
Ok now copper fins.
Ok zero or more PCIe slots glad that's been cleared up
Wait but you just said
Ok I guess not that.
Ummmmm
Huh.
Well, I wouldn’t mind a 24core threadripper style Epyc in the mMP so long as it maintains the 1950x single core+multicore level of performance under a sustained, weeks long workload.
That said the cpu+GPU plus other components possibly won’t cross 600w TDP. So what is the extra 300w for ?
In other news, seems like intel is implementing display port 1.4 in tb 3. An 8k apple Cinema Display looks like a distinct possibility.
That said the cpu+GPU plus other components possibly won’t cross 600w TDP. So what is the extra 300w for ?
In other news, seems like intel is implementing display port 1.4 in tb 3. An 8k apple Cinema Display looks like a distinct possibility.
Difficult to believe Apple would switch only the Mac Pro to AMD - too little sales volume to make the software (and everything else!) engineering worthwhile.
So I will believe it when I can walk into an Apple store and buy one. I'm not holding my breath.
So I will believe it when I can walk into an Apple store and buy one. I'm not holding my breath.
Again, another dude that dont understand AMD cpu are Intel Clones (and viceversa), no need to make the software, go to hackintosh forum and you'll see how is even easier to run macOS 10.12 on AMD's Ryzen than ever before.
I guess Apple will move most of the Mac to AMD cpu, fists prospects: Mac Pro and Mini, followed by non-pro iMac and later the MB/MBP, and Next Year the iMac Pro (but I think is unlikely a 2nd gen iMac Pro, after a descent Mac Pro is available).
[doublepost=1515351091][/doublepost]
HE gpus account for 350W each (700W), and CPU another 120W (820W), 10W chipset(830W), 5W each DIMM (850W), 15W each SSD (880W total), I think it still a bit restricted .
According to people I know who work with such things, you are incorrect - the work to switch to AMD is not trivial. It would also require tearing up numerous contracts and agreements, retraining support and sales, completely changing logistics/channel management, etc.
And running a hackintosh is trivial - as noted above, there is a great deal more to it than you appear to understand.
I wouldn't understand why the iMP gets a Xeon and the mMP should get a Threadripper instead of an EPYC.
But again, I still don't understand why all of them (am I right?) are missing QuickSynce or any h264/265 hw coding, in the era of multimedia and videoconference.
[doublepost=1515353417][/doublepost]Could it be solved with an ARM co-processor?
But again, I still don't understand why all of them (am I right?) are missing QuickSynce or any h264/265 hw coding, in the era of multimedia and videoconference.
[doublepost=1515353417][/doublepost]Could it be solved with an ARM co-processor?
No I'm not advocating strict adherence to the MP 2013 design at all. You are making stuff up. Large reuse of the more expensive components and design effort would lead to having same Intel W CPU which leads to same PCH (and probably i/O ports), and probably lead to same T2 and boot subsystems. Similar with RAM , SSD, and GPU.
The cooling system isn't all that expensive and doesn't have to pulled over (and couldn't be if there is about a 100% increase in thermal load to handle. ) In fact, probably cheaper to get more inexpensive to get more non specially clock binned versions of Intel W and GPU. The fans and the other stuff driven by the shape and size of the LCD panel don't have to be moved over at all.
is the primary GPU gong to non-embedded? Probably not because that drives a design mismatch with Thunderbolt v3 (and dropping that or trying that into some Rube Goldberg hack is probably a non starter. ). Could the GPU subsection of the logic board be "cut and pasted' onto a daughter card with its own cooling subsystem yes. That is still reuse even if have to tweak at the edges of the daughtercard. [ no major driver work. etc. ]
Taking the Mac Pro off into a corner where is share no significant parts with any other Mac would be one of the most sure fire ways off killing off the product. The Mac Pro is highly unlikely to sell enough to offset those costs for a better return than other Apple products and then next "what isn't working so it should be terminated" meeting Apple execs hold the Mac Pro would be sitting there with a bullseye painted on it.
Not sure where I went off and advocated for non Intel W (e.g. off to Intel Xeon SP or Core i solutions ) posts would be because I have made numerous posts about how fundamentally flawed those would be.
Because Intel. The same reason a top-of-the-line Mac Pro released at the end of 2013 didn't have native USB3 support. Xeons are many positive things compared to the rest of the Intel line, but they are anemic about picking up a lot of support for new features as well.
Reviews from folks who do H.264 and H.265 editing have noted the iMac Pro is significantly faster at it then the 2012 and 2013 Mac Pro so it sounds like Apple might have something in there to support that acceleration.
I suppose it could just be more modern CPU, memory and GPU but some of the results were significant (over one hour on a 2012 Mac Pro with 12 cores and an AMD 5750 compared to one minute on an iMac Pro with 10 cores and a VEGA 56).
Perhaps the customized B series Xeons Apple have QS hardware - either separately or as part of an iGPU that otherwise has non-QS functionality disabled/omitted?
AMD is not impossible, but I think we're still looking at a design that's an iteration over the iMac Pro design. Switching to AMD isn't free, there is firmware and Thunderbolt and T2 integration with Intel. Not as simple as just throwing on a new socket and motherboard.
Again, not impossible, but it's a long bet with Apple just spending the time to do the work building out new Xeon designs. If AMD got out clean from Meltdown/Spectre the odds might be better, but they didn't.
I have no doubt though that AMD would be pushing this sort of idea hard though. But, if someone is getting sources from suppliers, I'd caution that Apple may have several prototypes and options in the wings. There were companies in 2005 that thought they were going to supply Apple with new PowerPC processors, right up until Apple made the Intel announcement.
Apple will purposely mislead their supply chain for negotiation tactics. I heard supply chain sources that a 2011 Mac Pro was going to happen once. Guess what never happened...
Again, not impossible, but it's a long bet with Apple just spending the time to do the work building out new Xeon designs. If AMD got out clean from Meltdown/Spectre the odds might be better, but they didn't.
I have no doubt though that AMD would be pushing this sort of idea hard though. But, if someone is getting sources from suppliers, I'd caution that Apple may have several prototypes and options in the wings. There were companies in 2005 that thought they were going to supply Apple with new PowerPC processors, right up until Apple made the Intel announcement.
Apple will purposely mislead their supply chain for negotiation tactics. I heard supply chain sources that a 2011 Mac Pro was going to happen once. Guess what never happened...
Both true....
What do you call native?
The MP6,1 has complete USB 3.0 support for 4 USB 3.0 ports.
What is this nonsense claim about "no native USB3" support?
TB3 is public domain since Jan1, 3rd party TB3 headers should be available today, Mac's firmware is done by Apple.
I think switching to AMD is an project as old as when Jim Keller moved back to AMD in 2012 (maybe as part of an Apple-AMD agreement), Apple's capital in AMD was key to develop Zen (reason to Keller's return to AMD) and the new Polaris/Vega GPU architecture both mandatory to break Intel's market domination, it has corporate sense, despite AMD lacking the hype intel has, current Zen/Vega are competitive against Intel, and not so against nVidia (at least dont shame as previously).
W/O Apple's help there is no Ryzen, Vega, and I think this help was part of a Plan, where Intel is the target.
Yes, the newly-announced Titan Ridge controller will support DisplayPort 1.4, which supports 5K/8K at 60Hz and 4K@120Hz, all with HDR.
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I mean it’s not native. The USB is going through a Fresco Logic USB 3.0 controller hanging off the PCH via a single 2.0 lane.
They gonna call it TB 3.x or something so it’s hopefully clear?
I am guessing Apple will just adopt it on the 2018 refreshes of the Mac line and not differentiate it by name. If they do release displays that leverage DP1.4, they'll just note in the Support Doc that they are compatible with 2018 Macs only. The specific controller model numbers are JHL7540 and JHL7340.
Perhaps semantics here. By Trashcan2.0. I meant the sort of AIO ( minus monitor ) type of engineering that differentiated the 2013 from prior versions, here on out referred to as 'sealed box' because I hate acronyms. Nowhere did I mention 'strict' adherence. 'You are essentially advocating for the trashcan v2.' Already implies variation, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to use 'v2'. 'Essentially' and 'strict' are rather different definitionally. Be careful who you accuse of making stuff up here.
Notes : Forecasting an embedded GPU ? Can't say I disagree with your reasoning. But beside the point, you are making the case for the 'sealed box' solution again. But I suppose 'I'm making it up' so I'll just disregard any points here for sake of misinterpretation.
In some strange twisted way, I don't disagree with you here either. At least the latter half, but I think that speaks more to Apple's own arrogant design and mismanagement of the line starting 2013 ( maybe prior too ? ), and not to market demands or supply chain issues or whatever bovine fecal matter they use to justify their decisions during conference speeches. They've systematically made poor design/engineering decisions that alienated their consumer base; that is the premise I put forth to their poor sales, not that a 'Mac Pro customer base just isn't there or evolved away'. * I'm not saying that you said that I think you said that this is what you said. I'm inserting this for my own enjoyment purposes only.
Not saying you advocated for non Intel W. If you want to go dig into the bucket and pull out the post where I said you said this, be my guest. But in the meantime I will accuse you of making stuff up. Because its Trendy™. I will eat a cookie if mistaken.
Frankly, not motivated to play pick apart ... my pedantic pants are in the other room. But if I remember it was SOMETHING ( read : not literally, with no attempt at precision) along the lines of :
Post 1 : MacPro = iMacPro - Monitor; Yay!
Post 2 : Sealed solution != good('maybe');
To me this is where I inferred the contradiction.
Really don't care about intel vs amd. I have no AMD hardware in this house and there is a lot of silicon here. Not happy about intel's current lineup, including the W line. But no brand loyalty or other such.
I better stop before this reply becomes as long as one of yours.
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I would add ‘Mac Pro’ user base. Can’t speak about other segments ( iPhone, MacBooks and iMacs ) since I don’t use those but yes like you, some of us don’t buy ‘there is no viable Mac Pro market’ theory periodically posited here, precisely because of your reasoning mentioned above.
P.S. I do use iPhones, iPads and MacBook pros but if they disappeared from my life the next day, I wouldn’t care less. Except maybe iPad pros ;p
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