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I know that and it would probably be illegal. Just took it as an example to illustrate that win software is now at least as capable as Mac software ( think mac version are now trailing behind win versions). Hence the edge for running Mac is not on the application side. MacOS is more pleasant to work with than windows in my opinion. As IBM has pointed out, Macs seem to be cheaper to maintain compared to win machines, which is an argument for using Macs. It will be an uphill struggle with a Mac Pro even if it meet all expectation from this forum and will require and entirely new mid set from Apple not the least on supporting software. If they want high performing software on Mac pro, they need to invest in software companies so they quickly support e.g. metal.

Much of Apple’s offerings in the content creation side and to a reasonable extent on the business enterprise side was because it was trying to push an alternative to another strategy - Windows (software) + Intel (hardware) with its own offering - OSX + power pc. Wintel was running away on the desktop front which attracted developers, while Apple had to keep creating alternatives itself, esp in categories where it was trying to be relevant.

Once they gave up, realizing its an uphill struggle and switched to Intel and holy smokes run Windows on Mac hardware, it was only a matter of time before they would be just another player in the x86 market. The need to maintain its own software was much less now.. macs could run Windows and if not, then it was easier developing for both macs and windows because now they shared the same underlying hardware..

Their third savior ( first two being creatives and music lovers) the re booted smartphone aka iPhone is mainly responsible for Apple’s current fortune ( but which cannibalized their own iPods ..and why not ? The iPod was a one trick pony vs the IPhone which targeted a much more versatile and collectively a far more lucrative market , combining and in some cases offering better solutions for existing segments )

So that leaves the macs. By Apple’s own estimation, the Mac division by itself can be ranked amongst the top 500 companies. It’s market share is around 7% (no of units sold , not profit margin) There is a whole 93% room for growth ( never mind the repeated mantra that Apple doesn’t care about market share but about profit margin ... it can have both market share and profit margin.. if not it would sell iPhones for 2k and get a healthy profit on top. There is a sweet spot that Apple is targeting ..one that puts iPhones into as many hands as possible but still maintaining healthy margins .. the success of the first iPhone was as much about how people got it - subsidized carrier payments as it was about its features. In markets that didn’t offer such emi style of payments, Android came in and dominated with its cheaper phones )

Even in macs, the mbps and to an extent the iMacs dominate which is, as Apple would like us to believe, a solved case.

Now that Apple is signaling that it wants to be taken seriously again in the top performance category, it needs to demonstrate much more effectively that in round 2 it is here to stay for good (until the entire industry goes away )

It isn’t just the professional who is wary of Apple in the recent past with a loves me, loves me not stance. It’s the developers too who are looking for answers from Apple vis a vis the Mac ... Yay = stay or Nay = go away.

For that to happen, Mac Pro should listen to the markets needs and re attract investment on the Mac platform. Both hardware and software.

Windows has much more variety and in many cases, newer desktop class apps just do not prioritize macs in their roadmap. For the most part, ‘Mac version coming soon’ is often the answer or ‘no plans as of now’ when queried if they plan to make one for the macOS.

A pretty hardware is useless ( as is a pleasant OS) if there aren’t many apps supporting it. And I say this as someone who really likes macOS (and I suspect many of here share the same feeling) The computer industry ( I consider smartphones as computers in their own right ) is unique in that it needs two things to work well..hardware and software. Both have to be in sync to sell the system as a whole.
 
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...
NAB is just over a month away. Yeah, I know, Apple announces stuff on its own schedule ... but it was right around NAB time last year that Apple broke the news that a new modular MP was in the works.
...

While not 100% disconnected it is doubtful that NAB was a primary driver. These are highly likely the more critical factors.


1. The four year "Rip Van Winkle" act was the primary problem they had. Period.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/04/mac-pro-gpu-cpu-upgrades-price-drop/

The MP 2013 sales were probably taking an even deeper nose dive than projections. Even the Mac Pro 2010 got a minor bump in 2012 (and a Dec 2013 replacement. 2 and 3 years respectively). 4 years later and Apple didn't have jack spit to show. Nothing. So they needed a stop gap. Part of that stop gap is a price drop. The need for the meeting was that price drop wasn't the only thing they were doing.


The MacRumors buyers clock reset last April. https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro ( Apple stopped racking up 4 digit numbers on refresh days ... letting the Mac Mini take over that 'throne' this year. If anything deserves a "we aren't lazy bums" meeting, it is the mini at this point. )



2. They had planned on a iMac Pro with the parts it currently has.

Intel Xeon W's slid out in timelines ( from 2015-2016 projections ) Wasn't coming in volume until Q4 17 .
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/08/29/intel-debuts-new-xeon-w-chips/

AMD Vega was sliding majority on schedule. If Apple has those in April-May 17 they certainly would have launched the iMac Pro then. (as again they were at least 2 years behind schedule in doing something responsible. ) Early roadmaps had Vega out in early 2017 and AMD started the year with just teasers.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11002/the-amd-vega-gpu-architecture-teaser

Again major part for iMac Pro sliding into Q4 17. ( HBM2 yields not up to high volume production and the cryptocurrency craze further exacerbating the problem. all in addition to AMD crossing t's and dotting i's on Vega drivers and packaging. ) Apple had relatively short term bet the farm on these and had nothing for most of 2017. The steady stream of "apple hasn't done anything in 4 years" was only going to get worse whether NAB was held in April, May, June, July, or August.

This is meeting was in significant part about the iMac Pro; which was just as equally alluded to in the meeting.

So two things Apple has this April that didn't have last year was new hardware and new FCP ( also rolled around same time as iMac Pro https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/19/hands-on-final-cut-pro-x-10-4/ ). It isn't the whole line-up they want but they have something that works for more than a few.


3. Part of the Mac Pro's problem is that is pigeonholed as being only good for FCPX (and Logic). Tightly circling NAB only reinforces that. WWDC isn't all that far away from NAB if they are targeting Q4 2018. ( again major part availability; may get some Xeon W bumps and GPU updates by then ). It is a wider audience and perhaps can vaguely point at more than just narrow subset that is FCPX/Logic.


So I'm hoping we at least get some kind of update from Apple on what to expect around the same time this year.

Last year talk didn't really say much in detail about the future products. (bulk of discussion was about past products and currently existing markets (and trends seen for the shifts in the submarkets) and needs ). So having another meeting to talk just as less about future products again wouldn't be all that informative. About the biggest change that the discussion would cover would be whether "nothing in 2017" was going to be updated to "something before the end of 2018" or "nothing in 2018".
 
iMore "speculates" a March event ...

And the likely items announced would be:
  1. New 9.7" iPad (with possible price drop);
  2. Air Power charging pad;
  3. Wireless Air Pod charging case;
  4. iPhone SE 2
  5. New Apple Watch bands
They are not going to announce new Macs, much less a new Mac Pro.

And to be honest, all of those can be announced via Press Releases so they do not need an actual event.
 
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And the likely items announced would be:
  1. New 9.7" iPad (with possible price drop);
  2. Air Power charging pad;
  3. Wireless Air Pod charging case;
  4. iPhone SE 2
  5. New Apple Watch bands
They are not going to announce new Macs, much less a new Mac Pro.

And to be honest, all of those can be announced via Press Releases so they do not need an actual event.

if the iPhone SE 2 is a major shift to target a new price point for more limited disposable income markets ( India and to lesser extent China) then would need more than a press announcement. Apple pushed up the average selling price of the iPhone with the iPhone X they could offset that back closer to the older mark by doing a more affordable SE 2.
( e.g., moving from $349 -> $299 with a A10 and latest generation Touch ID, but minimal screen/body changes. )

If they are bumping up the SE 2 (slightly bigger screen and A11 ) and keeping the same price... again probably worth it with the rest of this stuff tagging along.

They could CPU bump the Mini. No major design change but at least being the CPU up out of the dark ages and perhaps bump the TB ports to version 3.


But yes .... Mac Pro update unlikely.
 
I think the iPhone SE 2 will keep the iPhone SE form factor - making it larger seems counter-productive since people wanted a 4" phone and if you want something larger, there is the 4.7" iPhone 6s, 7 and 8. I also believe it will keep the same $349 price since the 6s is $449. I do believe it will see a spec bump to the A10 as found in the iPhone 7 and add the M10 motion coprocessor.

I firmly believe the iPad Mini is End of Life. It's business case was deeply undercut by the iPhone Plus (I sold my Mini when I bought my 6 Plus) and the iPhone X Plus will undercut it even more. And if Apple is dropping the price of the 32GB 9.7" iPad to $259, that would make the 128GB model $359 - so it would be $40 cheaper than the 128GB iPad Mini.

As for the Mac Mini, I am hoping they announce a refresh at WDCC when I also hope they announce the Mac Pro.
 
I believe in iPad SE that will replace iPad Mini. It'll have similar price point as iPhone SE does. And yes, there's no reason to make iPhone SE bigger.

But what comes to Mac, Apple could do a spec bump for of their laptops this month.

At WWDC I expect that we will see Mac SE (former Mac Mini) and Macbook SE (former Macbook air) as well. And I hope, MP 2018.

Mac SE could be similar, but smaller turret as HomePod and Mac Pro are. Then Apple would have clear line for their bargain products tagged SE.
 
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And the likely items announced would be:
  1. New 9.7" iPad (with possible price drop);
  2. Air Power charging pad;
  3. Wireless Air Pod charging case;
  4. iPhone SE 2
  5. New Apple Watch bands
They are not going to announce new Macs, much less a new Mac Pro.

And to be honest, all of those can be announced via Press Releases so they do not need an actual event.
UNBELIEVER !!!!:apple:
[doublepost=1520031029][/doublepost]
I firmly believe the iPad Mini is End of Life. It's business case was deeply undercut by the iPhone Plus
Its your personal taste, not market reality, actually the iPad mini sells good to vertical customers, Aviation, Medical, Services using iPad Apps favor the smaller form factor even the cheaper iPad 9.7 cant beat the mini sales, so dont get surprised if you see another lame update or even a iPad Pro mini.
 
Its your personal taste, not market reality, actually the iPad mini sells good to vertical customers, Aviation, Medical, Services using iPad Apps favor the smaller form factor even the cheaper iPad 9.7 cant beat the mini sales, so dont get surprised if you see another lame update or even a iPad Pro mini.

Or they pull it from consumer sale and offer it only to commercial customers. Maybe they could call it the "ePad". :D
 
And the likely items announced would be:
  1. New 9.7" iPad (with possible price drop);
  2. Air Power charging pad;
  3. Wireless Air Pod charging case;
  4. iPhone SE 2
  5. New Apple Watch bands
They are not going to announce new Macs, much less a new Mac Pro.

And to be honest, all of those can be announced via Press Releases so they do not need an actual event.

The current Macs status is almost a tragedy. They should do something.
Look at the Buyer's Guide, 6 out of 7... Caution and don't buy!
Ultra disappointing situation.
0.png
 
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The current Macs status is almost a tragedy. They should do something.
Look at the Buyer's Guide, 6 out of 7... Caution and don't buy!
Ultra disappointing situation.
View attachment 753103
  1. Current MacBook Butterfly Keyboard has become the most unreliable keyboard ever in a Mac, A major revision is due, also Apple likely to go back to discrete SSD instead soldered.
  2. Also good time to intrduce a Mac Mini
  3. and at least Sneak Peek on the Trashintosh II aka "modular" Mac Pro...
 
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The current Macs status is almost a tragedy. They should do something.
Look at the Buyer's Guide, 6 out of 7... Caution and don't buy!

The Buyer's Guide employs artificial time-based thresholds for at least the "Caution" label. So as a product reaches 365 days, it gets the "Caution" tag regardless of whether or not upgrade technologies (CPUs / GPUs) are available for Apple to use.

Intel has not released a new family of m3 or i5 CPUs that are usable in the MacBook Retina, for example, so it is not like Apple could update it even if they wanted. Ditto the MacBook Pro. They could update the iMac's CPU, but I do not believe AMD has yet released a suitable Vega RX GPU and I would expect Apple would want to update both together otherwise they'd risk tremendous consumer backlash if they released an Early 2018 iMac this month with Coffee Lake CPUs and the current Radeon Pro 580 and then release a Late 2018 iMac in October with the Coffee Lake CPU and an AMD Vega RX GPU.

The MBR, MBP and iMac were also all upgraded at WWDC 2017 and we're three months away from WWDC 2018 so chances are decent that Apple will announce an update - assuming Apple and AMD have product to update them with, of course. And that could be a big "if" considering how delayed both OEMs have been at shipping new families.

Now, all the above being said, the Mac Mini could easily have been updated over the past three years and was not so it's label of "Don't Buy" is legitimate. And the 2013 Mac Pro is an End of Life product so it also legitimately deserves the "Don't Buy" label.
 
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The Buyer's Guide employs artificial time-based thresholds for at least the "Caution" label. So as a product reaches 365 days, it gets the "Caution" tag regardless of whether or not upgrade technologies (CPUs / GPUs) are available for Apple to use.

Intel has not released a new family of m3 or i5 CPUs that are usable in the MacBook Retina, for example, so it is not like Apple could update it even if they wanted. Ditto the MacBook Pro. They could update the iMac's CPU, but I do not believe AMD has yet released a suitable Vega RX GPU and I would expect Apple would want to update both together otherwise they'd risk tremendous consumer backlash if they released an Early 2018 iMac this month with Coffee Lake CPUs and the current Radeon Pro 580 and then release a Late 2018 iMac in October with the Coffee Lake CPU and an AMD Vega RX GPU.

The MBR, MBP and iMac were also all upgraded at WWDC 2017 and we're three months away from WWDC 2018 so chances are decent that Apple will announce an update - assuming Apple and AMD have product to update them with, of course. And that could be a big "if" considering how delayed both OEMs have been at shipping new families.

Now, all the above being said, the Mac Mini could easily have been updated over the past three years and was not so it's label of "Don't Buy" is legitimate. And the 2013 Mac Pro is an End of Life product so it also legitimately deserves the "Don't Buy" label.

Dear, it's not only about cpus, they can improve a lot of other things, as they used to do in the past, keyboards, batteries, displays, design, additional ports etc.

I'm afraid that as long as they want to promote the new iMac Pro, they won't present new iMacs or MacPros, to drive as many people as possible to their new sealed toy. Of course this may not be true at all...
 
While not 100% disconnected it is doubtful that NAB was a primary driver. These are highly likely the more critical factors.
...
Last year talk didn't really say much in detail about the future products. (bulk of discussion was about past products and currently existing markets (and trends seen for the shifts in the submarkets) and needs ). So having another meeting to talk just as less about future products again wouldn't be all that informative. About the biggest change that the discussion would cover would be whether "nothing in 2017" was going to be updated to "something before the end of 2018" or "nothing in 2018".

Thanks, deconstruct60, my post was just wishful thinking from a video-centric user. And I've learned long ago that what a fairly small group of users might want has very little bearing on what Apple does, let alone impact its timing. But us creative types like to imagine things.
 
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Dear, it's not only about cpus, they can improve a lot of other things, as they used to do in the past, keyboards, batteries, displays, design, additional ports etc.

Yes, but for mainstream buyers - and even this website - the focus is about "what's the CPU / GPU"? In recent years, all of the changes to form factors, displays, keyboards, ports, et. al. have been in conjunction with a new CPU and GPU and that has almost certainly been influenced by the focus of buyers on the "main specs".


I'm afraid that as long as they want to promote the new iMac Pro, they won't present new iMacs or MacPros, to drive as many people as possible to their new sealed toy. Of course this may not be true at all...

It isn't true. :)

The iMac line as a whole averages a million units sold per quarter. I'm an iMac Pro optimist and yet I predict sales will probably be in the sub-50,000 units a quarter considering the current Mac Pro is probably around 10,000 units a quarter. So sells 500% better than a Mac Pro, but still be only 5% of iMac family sales.

As much as people claim Apple is not serious about the Mac, they would literally have to be totally unserious about the Mac to hold back 95% of their sales just to push the iMac Pro on their customers. And for those who honestly believe they would do just that, in such a scenario they would have been so unserious about the Mac they never would have launched the iMac Pro in the first place so... :D
 
Intel has not released a new family of m3 or i5 CPUs that are usable in the MacBook Retina, for example, so it is not like Apple could update it even if they wanted. Ditto the MacBook Pro.


There's always room for a non touchpad MBP with 4 ports, bringing back Magsafe and the old keyboard for all MBs; the kind of stuff that was a design failure and could easily be fixed .
 
Thanks, deconstruct60, my post was just wishful thinking from a video-centric user. And I've learned long ago that what a fairly small group of users might want has very little bearing on what Apple does, let alone impact its timing. But us creative types like to imagine things.

There was a time when Apple's strategy was to get top end Macs into the hands of the most influential people of an industry so they could convince everyone else in that industry to stay on Macs. But now Apple flip-flops between high profile users and mass volume whenever it's convenient.
 
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otherwise they'd risk tremendous consumer backlash if they released an Early 2018 iMac this month with Coffee Lake CPUs and the current Radeon Pro 580 and then release a Late 2018 iMac in October with the Coffee Lake CPU and an AMD Vega RX GPU
This is something that has always puzzled me about some Apple users.

That is, that they'd prefer to buy out-of-date hardware rather than have Apple update whenever something better is available.

On the HPE/HP/Dell side, often with little more than a minor press release new CPUs and GPUs are added to the BTO or pre-configured list. Even if the PCH chipset is different, then selecting the newer CPU gets the mobo with the new chipset, and selecting the older CPU gets the older mobo.

The "...just one more thing" mindset died many years ago. No need to delay advances in order to have a keynote surprise.
 
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This is something that has always puzzled me about some Apple users.

That is, that they'd prefer to buy out-of-date hardware rather than have Apple update whenever something better is available.

On the HPE/HP/Dell side, often with little more than a minor press release new CPUs and GPUs are added to the BTO or pre-configured list. Even if the PCH chipset is different, then selecting the newer CPU gets the mobo with the new chipset, and selecting the older CPU gets the older mobo.

The "...just one more thing" mindset died many years ago. No need to delay advances in order to have a keynote surprise.

Different markets?

Major PC OEMs sell a significant bit of kit to enterprise customers who buy on 3 or 4 year replacement cycles that trigger (usually) on a monthly basis so end users just get what they get since they are not paying for it. If the new hire gets a slightly better PC than you, it's luck of the draw and you roll with it.

Apple sells a significant bit of kit to consumers who are paying for their machines and therefore have a deeper "value" connection. So they want "regular" updates, but they cannot afford to replace their machines every six months (most likely cannot justify even annual updates) so longer upgrade cycles (12 months instead of 12 weeks) are preferred.
 
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Why do they think that they need to replace their system on the day that Apple releases a modest update?

I can't answer that. I personally am on a two year replacement cycle with my iMacs, though I did shorten it to around 18 months between the Late 2015 and Mid 2017 model because of the fairly better GPU.
 
Intel has not released a new family of m3 or i5 CPUs that are usable in the MacBook Retina, for example, so it is not like Apple could update it even if they wanted. Ditto the MacBook Pro.
Who Said Intel?

Ok I was Kidding, I dont have actual cues on the MBP switching to AMD yet (Apple will switch first Desktop, more likely a Mac mini or an iMac will be the first full AMD Mac).
 
Who Said Intel?

Ok I was Kidding, I dont have actual cues on the MBP switching to AMD yet (Apple will switch first Desktop, more likely a Mac mini or an iMac will be the first full AMD Mac).
AMD has a history of heart-break. Flashes of brilliance, followed by years of ennui.

I doubt that Apple would consider using Ryzen/Epyc parts. If Ryzen/Epyc are successful, Apple should consider the second generation (Ryzen+1/Epyc+1) if they seem promising - but not the unproven first generation.
 
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not the unproven first generation.
Apple maybe conservative when it means money, history show us how pragmatic is apple abut tech adoption:

Apple Was Iconic First Adopter for:
Thunderbolt
IBM's PowerPC cpus
CD-Rom
Floppy

to name few, digging a bit should show more First Adopter from Apple.​
 
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