Waiting for Skylake MBP thread

[cmChimera]

Sadly enough,

Because money $$$

We're talking about consumers.

AMD Polaris and NVidia Pascal can change this, because they're built on 14nm and 16nm processes respectively. That's a substantial reduction from 40/28nm processes used for a few years now. That will generate both performance gains and TDP reductions.

Which is why Apple should just use that. It's better than the 580, and performs to Apple's spec.

Apple doesn't HAVE to do anything, but as a consumer I would much rather them give me my money's worth than not.

There seem to be a lot of people that want a 15" MacBook Air.

 

[koyoot]

Don't neglect performance of iGPUs.

IMO I think all of people, both that want dGPU and those that don't want dGPU in MBP will be satisfied. The only reason for wait to june to update 15 inch with Skylake is the Polaris GPU.
And I do not believe they will drop entry level model without the dGPU.

I expect for 1799$ 16 GB of DDR, 2.6 GHz CPU, with HD580 and 256 GB of SSD.

 

[cmChimera]

Don't neglect performance of iGPUs.

IMO I think all of people, both that want dGPU and those that don't want dGPU in MBP will be satisfied. The only reason for wait to june to update 15 inch with Skylake is the Polaris GPU.
And I do not believe they will drop entry level model without the dGPU.

I expect for 1799$ 16 GB of DDR, 2.6 GHz CPU, with HD580 and 256 GB of SSD.

This would be ideal. If people don't need a dGPU, cool. But don't ask Apple to not offer it at all, or make it more expensive to acquire.

 

[koyoot]

Well to be honest it will be pointless really soon.

Cannonlake Iris Pro will have performance around GTX970/R9 390. The simpler computer you have the better. Think about this also. If you have dGPU inside your computer you might not be able to use it because of thermal constraints in the same time as iGPU, while playing on DirectX12 game. With external GPU - you do not have to worry about it.

There is a lot of benefits of getting rid of dGPU from laptops. Your computer will not loose worth because of iGPU only. Soon it will be "go to" solution.

 

[j1104638]

This would be ideal. If people don't need a dGPU, cool. But don't ask Apple to not offer it at all, or make it more expensive to acquire.

You see the problem here is that this is not a one way road.

Designing for specific TDP is quite difficult and so far Apple has always designed for one TDP which is approx. 45W CPU+35W dGPU. The models without dGPU were quite inefficient in a way that Apple could've achieved better performance or longevity had they designed specifically for TDP without dGPU instead of just removing dGPU and changing nothing else. But then they'd have to make two very different designs for both TDPs. This would nearly double design cost.

You saying "leave dGPU" is actually saying "leave rMBPs without dGPU inefficient". Account for that.

When performance of iGPU and dGPU were times different it was understandable. Now, when there is no dGPU that can outperform iGPU that much and moreover TB3 allows eGPU (times more performant than any dGPU) to be used it's not.

 

[cmChimera]

You see the problem here is that this is not a one way road.

Designing for specific TDP is quite difficult and so far Apple has always designed for one TDP which is approx. 45W CPU+35W dGPU. The models without dGPU were quite inefficient in a way that Apple could've achieved better performance or longevity had they designed specifically for TDP without dGPU instead of just removing dGPU and changing nothing else. But then they'd have to make two very different designs for both TDPs. This would nearly double design cost.

You saying "leave dGPU" is actually saying "leave rMBPs without dGPU inefficient". Account for that.

When performance of iGPU and dGPU were times different it was understandable. Now, when there is no dGPU that can outperform iGPU that much and moreover TB3 allows eGPU (times more performant than any dGPU) to be used it's not.

1. Polaris and Pascal will easily outperform the 580 within the thermal enclosure of a MacBook Pro.

2. eGPUs are massive, and not portable at all. Some people have to bring their laptops other places besides their desk.

 

[HighRes15]

Which is why Apple should just use that. It's better than the 580, and performs to Apple's spec.

That depends on when AMD and Nvidia can make them available. The MBP, strictly speaking, is a DGPU niche. It emphasizes TDP over performance, even for any Pascal/Polaris GPU. Historically, this has required special arrangements between Apple and the GPU provider. For example, in the 2010 13" MBP, they obtained a custom 320M from Nvidia. Last year they obtained a previously unknown R7 M370X from AMD.

Such a custom request takes time to accomplish. AMD or NVidia may not agree to devote resources to help Apple with such a custom GPU, and if they do, it's not clear it'll be an immediate priority for them; the R7 M370X after all was a 3 year old core when it came out with the 2015 15" MBP.

Apple chooses GPU designs not to maximize gaming performance, but to ensure they have enough GPU power to sustain the video performance they seek generally. The current 15" in particular is a design compromise. They built it to accommodate a ~35W DGPU, and the IGPU-only versions effectively have a hole where the DGPU would have been. They'd probably want to avoid that compromise and not have to have a DGPU at all.

The 13" dropped the DGPU as soon as the IGPU was powerful enough to drive their graphics requirements. Similarly, the Iris Pro 580 constitutes the first time an IGPU outdoes an existing DGPU. Therefore, it's reasonable to consider that Apple may thus drop the DGPU as a default choice altogether, and charge you extra if you seek it. You may not like it, but there's historical precedent in the same thing happening to the 13" model.

 

[yukari]

I guess waiting for October again.

I had predicted September time, but I am still hoping I am wrong.

 

[ekwipt]

Not everyone has a camera with a SD slot though?

 

[cmChimera]

That depends on when AMD and Nvidia can make them available. The MBP, strictly speaking, is a DGPU niche. It emphasizes TDP over performance, even for any Pascal/Polaris GPU. Historically, this has required special arrangements between Apple and the GPU provider. For example, in the 2010 13" MBP, they obtained a custom 320M from Nvidia. Last year they obtained a previously unknown R7 M370X from AMD.

Such a custom request takes time to accomplish. AMD or NVidia may not agree to devote resources to help Apple with such a custom GPU, and if they do, it's not clear it'll be an immediate priority for them; the R7 M370X after all was a 3 year old core when it came out with the 2015 15" MBP.

Apple chooses GPU designs not to maximize gaming performance, but to ensure they have enough GPU power to sustain the video performance they seek generally. The current 15" in particular is a design compromise. They built it to accommodate a ~35W DGPU, and the IGPU-only versions effectively have a hole where the DGPU would have been. They'd probably want to avoid that compromise and not have to have a DGPU at all.

The 13" dropped the DGPU as soon as the IGPU was powerful enough to drive their graphics requirements. Similarly, the Iris Pro 580 constitutes the first time an IGPU outdoes an existing DGPU. Therefore, it's reasonable to consider that Apple may thus drop the DGPU as a default choice altogether, and charge you extra if you seek it. You may not like it, but there's historical precedent in the same thing happening to the 13" model.

The 13" never had a dedicated GPU. The graphics have always shared system RAM.

 

[imnotkleenex]

Cannonlake Iris Pro will have performance around GTX970/R9 390.

There is no way that is possible, don't know if you could show me some benchmarks to backup your claims, but Intel iGPUs won't match those GPUs for years!

 

[Blue Sun]

There is no way that is possible, don't know if you could show me some benchmarks to backup your claims, but Intel iGPUs won't match those GPUs for years!

Exactly, synthetic benchmarks are one thing, but real world performance is something else entirely.

 

[imnotkleenex]

Exactly, synthetic benchmarks are one thing, but real world performance is something else entirely.

I think some people have no needs for dGPUs and that's fine, which is why Apple offers both options, but there is a reason why dGPUs exist and there is a market for it and whether it is AMD or Nvidia (I personally favor Nvidia), I think they have their place in a Pro Laptop.

Whatever Intel says (and has been saying about all of their iGPUs) they will never match dGPUs, especially the high end like the GTX 970 and Radeon R9 390. Maybe something like a 940m, and even then the 940m will most likely still be more powerful. Some people might say they don't notice the dGPU's advantage in day to day basic tasks like web surfing and the like, but boot up the occasional World of Warcraft or DOTA2 and it'll definitely be obvious! And while gaming is not Apple's biggest market, a look at all of the youtube videos showing performance of brand new Macs at every refresh still shows there is a market for it and people are interested to know about those performances before purchasing the laptop. If you are gonna have the full package of awesome laptop design, incredible screen, great cpu performance and best in class battery life, you better include the dGPU, especially at the price they are asking!

I'm personally awaiting a refresh for Thunderbolt 3/external GPU but I'll still get the dGPU for on-the-go performance.

 

[cmChimera]

I think some people have no needs for dGPUs and that's fine, which is why Apple offers both options, but there is a reason why dGPUs exist and there is a market for it and whether it is AMD or Nvidia (I personally favor Nvidia), I think they have their place in a Pro Laptop.

Whatever Intel says (and has been saying about all of their iGPUs) they will never match dGPUs, especially the high end like the GTX 970 and Radeon R9 390. Maybe something like a 940m, and even then the 940m will most likely still be more powerful. Some people might say they don't notice the dGPU's advantage in day to day basic tasks like web surfing and the like, but boot up the occasional World of Warcraft or DOTA2 and it'll definitely be obvious! And while gaming is not Apple's biggest market, a look at all of the youtube videos showing performance of brand new Macs at every refresh still shows there is a market for it and people are interested to know about those performances before purchasing the laptop. If you are gonna have the full package of awesome laptop design, incredible screen, great cpu performance and best in class battery life, you better include the dGPU, especially at the price they are asking!

I'm personally awaiting a refresh for Thunderbolt 3/external GPU but I'll still get the dGPU for on-the-go performance.

Bless this post

 

[NJPT]

That is idiotic... Apple is an American company, with the drop in value of foreign currency apple will have to increase prices in foreign markets in order to recover the same margin.

Thank you for pointing this out. If this person is going to keep on trying to convince us he's got inside sources, it'd be nice if he at least made up stories that made logical sense.

 

[HighRes15]

The 13" never had a dedicated GPU. The graphics have always shared system RAM.

The 2010 13" had an NVidia 320M DGPU. That was done because the only Arrandale CPU with an iGPU was the 45W part. The next generation Sandybridge chips onwards, Apple abandoned the DGPU in favor of the HD graphics.

The classification of integrated vs discrete GPU on the basis of system RAM sharing is a questionable one, and not something with universal agreement. Strictly speaking, anything that's not on die is not integrated, though you can argue differently.

 

[macbook_21]

I think some people have no needs for dGPUs and that's fine, which is why Apple offers both options, but there is a reason why dGPUs exist and there is a market for it and whether it is AMD or Nvidia (I personally favor Nvidia), I think they have their place in a Pro Laptop.

Whatever Intel says (and has been saying about all of their iGPUs) they will never match dGPUs, especially the high end like the GTX 970 and Radeon R9 390. Maybe something like a 940m, and even then the 940m will most likely still be more powerful. Some people might say they don't notice the dGPU's advantage in day to day basic tasks like web surfing and the like, but boot up the occasional World of Warcraft or DOTA2 and it'll definitely be obvious! And while gaming is not Apple's biggest market, a look at all of the youtube videos showing performance of brand new Macs at every refresh still shows there is a market for it and people are interested to know about those performances before purchasing the laptop. If you are gonna have the full package of awesome laptop design, incredible screen, great cpu performance and best in class battery life, you better include the dGPU, especially at the price they are asking!

I'm personally awaiting a refresh for Thunderbolt 3/external GPU but I'll still get the dGPU for on-the-go performance.

Are you saying that even 13" rmbp's with igpu's can have dgpu performance with external gpu unit? What type of prices are we talking about if true?

 

[Seed101]

All I'm think is 'external gpu's' from Apple?
Ker-Ching!

Nailed on at some point..

 

[Dead0k]

Well on the news page it says it will be possibly announced in June but released in 4th quarter, which means October, November, December ... ahhhhh

The company's manufacturing partners are expected to start producing new 12-inch MacBook and 13-inch MacBook Pro models around late March or early April, followed by 15-inch MacBook Pro models in the third quarter, according to the sometimes-reliable Taiwanese website DigiTimes.

hope they are wrong....

 

[Seed101]

The company's manufacturing partners are expected to start producing new 12-inch MacBook and 13-inch MacBook Pro models around late March or early April, followed by 15-inch MacBook Pro models in the third quarter, according to the sometimes-reliable Taiwanese website DigiTimes.

hope they are wrong....

October!?!?
OMG...hello Windows

 

[knassar]

The company's manufacturing partners are expected to start producing new 12-inch MacBook and 13-inch MacBook Pro models around late March or early April, followed by 15-inch MacBook Pro models in the third quarter, according to the sometimes-reliable Taiwanese website DigiTimes.

hope they are wrong....

3rd quarter = june - september

 

[TrashCan]

What if they put a quad-core option with Iris Pro in the 13", and a quad-core with dGPU in the 15". Then the 13" will be a monster. Thin as a leaf, performance like a tiger, raaaw!

 

[whiteRAD]

What if they put two quadcores with 580 in the 15 inch
90Watt and huge performance

 

[senthor]

Why not put a Mac Pro in a MacBook Pro? Powerful yet portable.

 

[whiteRAD]

Why not put a Mac Pro in a MacBook Pro? Powerful yet portable.

Mactank Pro