Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Queen6]

Thanks! This is incredibly helpful. Any idea if the new i5, i7 or i9 will be in the new MBP? I still prefer OSX to Windows (both in terms of simplicity, features/memory handling and unix base), so that makes me want to wait to see on the new MBP, but if the surfacebook/xps this year are compelling in terms of a big speed/cost gap then that may change the calculus.

Undoubtedly Apple will move to the 8th Gen CPU, I doubt the i9 due the 65W TDP. Timescale at Apple's convenience as ever 😛 Give it a little time and we'll likely see deals on XPS's Surface Book not so much, although I did get a fair discount on my Gen 1 Surface Book so it can happen.

Q-6

 

[Poki]

Well, the i9 has a TDP range of 45W to 65W, and that doesn't seem to be the usual "configurable TDP down", it seems to be actually optimized to run at that wattage if the OEM wants it to, so performance decrease might not be as big as it sounds. At that TDP, however, it remains to be seen if the (surely not too small) additional cost is worth it or if you pay mainly for the branding at that point.

 

[Eason85]

I'm always looking for other options for me to switch to, but every time I think about the MacBook Pros in detail it just looks worse. Tried the 2017 MBP 15 7920HQ/1TB/560 model last year and hated the keyboard and touchbar, and found the CPU cooling totally inadequate - the extra money from a 7700HQ was completely wasted. The chances of apple putting a proper cooling solution in, removing the touchbar, putting in a proper keyboard, etc... basically nil. That's looking past extremely consumer-hostile behavior like soldered SSDs.

 

[Dave245]

I'm always looking for other options for me to switch to, but every time I think about the MacBook Pros in detail it just looks worse. Tried the 2017 MBP 15 7920HQ/1TB/560 model last year and hated the keyboard and touchbar, and found the CPU cooling totally inadequate - the extra money from a 7700HQ was completely wasted. The chances of apple putting a proper cooling solution in, removing the touchbar, putting in a proper keyboard, etc... basically nil. That's looking past extremely consumer-hostile behavior like soldered SSDs.

I don't see a problem with the Touch Bar, Apple included it in the Pro's because of it's usefulness when using Pro apps such as Final Cut Pro X. The keyboard feels better in my opinion (from what i've tried at the Apple store and my friends MacBook Pro). Personally tho i'm waiting to see what Apple do this year with the MacBook Pro and if they do indeed introduce a 13" MacBook option, it will be interesting to see how Apple move forward this year.

 

[Eason85]

I don't see a problem with the Touch Bar, Apple included it in the Pro's because of it's usefulness when using Pro apps such as Final Cut Pro X. The keyboard feels better in my opinion (from what i've tried at the Apple store and my friends MacBook Pro). Personally tho i'm waiting to see what Apple do this year with the MacBook Pro and if they do indeed introduce a 13" MacBook option, it will be interesting to see how Apple move forward this year.

I write, edit, and DJ for a living, so this is from that perspective:

The loss of the Fn keys is bad enough, but losing physical ESC/delete keys is worse. I type 110+ WPM and anything that makes me look down away from the screen or move my fingers from the home row brings my work to a screeching halt (this is where ThinkPads are incredible with the trackpoint). Not to mention all the quick commands are done via keystroke/shortcut -- not by touching that tiny little godawful strip. Even worse is the design of the keyboard, which feels and sounds horrendous. Sure, it is worse than an XPS 13/15's keyboard (and broken by a speck of dust getting inside), but when you compare it to typing on a thinkpad keyboard... it's another level...like torture for your fingers.

If they can fix the reliability of the keyboard and make it quieter, that will go a long way towards making it less offensive. But Apple being Apple, I am 100% sure they won't admit the touchbar is a gimmicky failure like Lenovo's touch strip in 2012 was. They'll probably double down on the ****ing thing.

 

[gobikerider]

The update to 8th gen CPUs should arrive as soon as all the necessary CPUs are available. This might be as soon as March or as late as October – there's no reliable way to tell until Intel releases a proper, detailed roadmap for this year.

It already leaked Ill have to see if I can find it but showed a Q2 launch window for the H series proccesors. Found it https://wccftech.com/intel-leaked-roadmap-cascade-lake-sp-coffee-lake-e-h-s-cpus/

 

[Dave245]

I write, edit, and DJ for a living, so this is from that perspective:

The loss of the Fn keys is bad enough, but losing physical ESC/delete keys is worse. I type 110+ WPM and anything that makes me look down away from the screen or move my fingers from the home row brings my work to a screeching halt (this is where ThinkPads are incredible with the trackpoint). Not to mention all the quick commands are done via keystroke/shortcut -- not by touching that tiny little godawful strip. Even worse is the design of the keyboard, which feels and sounds horrendous. Sure, it is worse than an XPS 13/15's keyboard (and broken by a speck of dust getting inside), but when you compare it to typing on a thinkpad keyboard... it's another level...like torture for your fingers.

If they can fix the reliability of the keyboard and make it quieter, that will go a long way towards making it less offensive. But Apple being Apple, I am 100% sure they won't admit the touchbar is a gimmicky failure like Lenovo's touch strip in 2012 was. They'll probably double down on the ****ing thing.

I wrote and edit for a living granted I mainly write for a living. From what I’ve experienced the Touchbar is useful for when cutting clips and so on as you don’t need to remember the keyboard shortcuts. The keyboard is loud I will agree there but I think Apple will evolve it and make it better, the Touchbar may see updates in June that makes it more useful only time will tell tho.

 

[gobikerider]

Well, the i9 has a TDP range of 45W to 65W, and that doesn't seem to be the usual "configurable TDP down", it seems to be actually optimized to run at that wattage if the OEM wants it to, so performance decrease might not be as big as it sounds. At that TDP, however, it remains to be seen if the (surely not too small) additional cost is worth it or if you pay mainly for the branding at that point.

When was the tdp of the i9 revealed? Are we guessing?

 

[skogkatt]

Sure, it is worse than an XPS 13/15's keyboard (and broken by a speck of dust getting inside), but when you compare it to typing on a thinkpad keyboard... it's another level...like torture for your fingers.

Not very much in topic but... I have two Siberian cats at home and after hearing all these horror stories about MBP keyboards, I'm a bit worried 😱

 

[Eason85]

I wrote and edit for a living granted I mainly write for a living. From what I’ve experienced the Touchbar is useful for when cutting clips and so on as you don’t need to remember the keyboard shortcuts. The keyboard is loud I will agree there but I think Apple will evolve it and make it better, the Touchbar may see updates in June that makes it more useful only time will tell tho.

I have no doubt that they'll make iterative fixes... but what I'm getting at is, as much as I would like to get a macbook pro in 2018, it'll be iterative. And iterative isn't good enough to fix what they f'd up for me.

Not very much in topic but... I have two Siberian cats at home and after hearing all these horror stories about MBP keyboards, I'm a bit worried 😱

I have a holland lop rabbit who sheds about 1.5 rabbits worth of fur every day :/

 

[Poki]

It already leaked Ill have to see if I can find it but showed a Q2 launch window for the H series proccesors. Found it https://wccftech.com/intel-leaked-roadmap-cascade-lake-sp-coffee-lake-e-h-s-cpus/

Q2 would be great, hopefully they will also get the 28W GT3e-chips ready for Q2. Seems like the probable launch period of the new MacBook Pro shifted to between April and October.

When was the tdp of the i9 revealed? Are we guessing?

The TDPs were part of the leak - scroll down to the table:

https://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-mobile-desktop-8th-gen-cpus-leak/

 

[gobikerider]

Q2 would be great, hopefully they will also get the 28W GT3e-chips ready for Q2. Seems like the probable launch period of the new MacBook Pro shifted to between April and October.




The TDPs were part of the leak - scroll down to the table:

https://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-mobile-desktop-8th-gen-cpus-leak/

Yah I saw that hah 🙂

 

[c0ppo]

I don't see a problem with the Touch Bar, Apple included it in the Pro's because of it's usefulness when using Pro apps such as Final Cut Pro X.

I don't edit videos, but I really think that Pro video editors use KB shortcuts. A lot. I know I do. For everything.
And MBP isn't just for video editors. A lot of programmers use MBP. And TB for programmers is a complete joke.

TB is a gimmick for pros. And even for newbies, since you really need to learn KB shortcuts to be more productive, and TB just enables you to skip that step all together. If someone really wants to become a pro video editor, well, sooner or later they are gonna move on from MBP to Mac Pro/iMP/Imac/etc.

And what then?

 

[Dave245]

I don't edit videos, but I really think that Pro video editors use KB shortcuts. A lot. I know I do. For everything.
And MBP isn't just for video editors. A lot of programmers use MBP. And TB for programmers is a complete joke.

TB is a gimmick for pros. And even for newbies, since you really need to learn KB shortcuts to be more productive, and TB just enables you to skip that step all together. If someone really wants to become a pro video editor, well, sooner or later they are gonna move on from MBP to Mac Pro/iMP/Imac/etc.

And what then?

Video editing is about making a great video but it's very time consuming and anything that can cut that down is a great help, while i do video edit i don't do so nearly as much as my best friend who's job it is and he loves using the Touch Bar in Final Cut Pro X, he doesn't use it as much in other apps so i can agree to a certain degree but i do think it depends on what you are using the MacBook Pro for. Personally i'm a writer but i do some video editing as a hobby and to help out friends from time to time, shortcuts are very good i do agree there BUT the problem is that there are so many to remember within Final Cut Pro and other editing Apps that sometimes it's hard to keep track, that is another area where the Touch Bar can help.

Your last point i'm not sure i understand, are you saying that all pro video editors move on to an iMac Pro or iMac? that's not always the case since the MacBook Pro's are often used to edit really high end video footage easily editing 4K. I do agree that a lot of people have multiple devices, i'm for example still using a 2011 MacBook Pro and a 2012 iMac alongside my 2017 iPad Pro, personally i think Apple should bring the Touch Bar to the keyboard of the iMac.

I'm waiting to see what Apple do this year with the MacBook Pro and iMac before deciding to upgrade.

 

[Eason85]

Video editing is about making a great video but it's very time consuming and anything that can cut that down is a great help, while i do video edit i don't do so nearly as much as my best friend who's job it is and he loves using the Touch Bar in Final Cut Pro X, he doesn't use it as much in other apps so i can agree to a certain degree but i do think it depends on what you are using the MacBook Pro for. Personally i'm a writer but i do some video editing as a hobby and to help out friends from time to time, shortcuts are very good i do agree there BUT the problem is that there are so many to remember within Final Cut Pro and other editing Apps that sometimes it's hard to keep track, that is another area where the Touch Bar can help.

Your last point i'm not sure i understand, are you saying that all pro video editors move on to an iMac Pro or iMac? that's not always the case since the MacBook Pro's are often used to edit really high end video footage easily editing 4K. I do agree that a lot of people have multiple devices, i'm for example still using a 2011 MacBook Pro and a 2012 iMac alongside my 2017 iPad Pro, personally i think Apple should bring the Touch Bar to the keyboard of the iMac.

I'm waiting to see what Apple do this year with the MacBook Pro and iMac before deciding to upgrade.

I think you should try spending 2-3k USD on upgrading your only laptop to one with the new keyboard + touchbar before you ask to have that awfulness foisted upon others 😛

I am saying that because I honestly think that, as a writer, you will feel pretty rotten at shelling out that much cash for such an unpleasant user experience.

 

[Poki]

We also should not forget just how versatile the Touch Bar is. The default actions provided by some apps are sometimes less than useful, but with a tool like Better Touch Tool, you can fully customize it. In my mind, this is much more useful than a bunch of function keys.

I still think the current Touch Bar MBPs have the best keyboard and trackpad of any notebook I've ever tried, the Touch Bar is a very useful addition if you customize it to your specific use cases.

 

[Dave245]

I think you should try spending 2-3k USD on upgrading your only laptop to one with the new keyboard + touchbar before you ask to have that awfulness foisted upon others 😛

I am saying that because I honestly think that, as a writer, you will feel pretty rotten at shelling out that much cash for such an unpleasant user experience.

I have used the MacBook Pro's with Touch Bar, both in the Apple store and my best friends one for the best part of a day, the keyboard felt great to be honest. Not everyone is going to love it just like not everyone is going to love the iPhone, iPad and so on but i do think that Apple have advanced the MacBook to better than just having a set of function row keys that people hardly ever used.

 

[c0ppo]

Your last point i'm not sure i understand, are you saying that all pro video editors move on to an iMac Pro or iMac? that's not always the case since the MacBook Pro's are often used to edit really high end video footage easily editing 4K. I do agree that a lot of people have multiple devices, i'm for example still using a 2011 MacBook Pro and a 2012 iMac alongside my 2017 iPad Pro, personally i think Apple should bring the Touch Bar to the keyboard of the iMac.

No, I'm not claiming everyone will switch to desktop machines for editing. Of course not. There are probably pros who use older hardware, and don't plan on upgrading until they really have to. Pro = person who makes money out of their work. Not everyone edits 4/8k videos of course.

Problem is that just MBP has TB. Not any other product has it. And even bigger problem is that 15" MBP comes with TB, and there is no version without it. What use does TB have to writers? Programmers?

Personally, I really hate TB. And unless I have to, I refuse to use MBP because of TB. I find it to be a complete gimmick, and just a distraction. Not just from my work, but also for regular stuff as well (sound, brightness, music controls, etc.). I can think of a lot of scenarios for function keys, and in every scenario that I use function keys, TB is slower, harder to use, and a distraction from what I'm doing at the moment.

And TB (with lousy keyboard quality) is the main reason I won't purchase any new MBP. Either Apple will ditch TB, or they will offer a nTB 15" MBP. Or they will stay on this course. If they continue on with just TB version, well, I will continue on using Lenovo for my mobile needs. And I know a lot of folks who feel the same. Funny thing is, I am in game development industry, and I still haven't met a graphic artists who likes TB 🙂

 

[Ener Ji]

Tried the 2017 MBP 15 7920HQ/1TB/560 model last year and hated the keyboard and touchbar, and found the CPU cooling totally inadequate - the extra money from a 7700HQ was completely wasted.

Would you mind elaborating on the CPU cooling issues you encountered? I'm probably going to be forced to purchase a new MBP this year, and I've been debating with myself whether upgrading the CPU would be worthwhile.

 

[Dave245]

No, I'm not claiming everyone will switch to desktop machines for editing. Of course not. There are probably pros who use older hardware, and don't plan on upgrading until they really have to. Pro = person who makes money out of their work. Not everyone edits 4/8k videos of course.

Problem is that just MBP has TB. Not any other product has it. And even bigger problem is that 15" MBP comes with TB, and there is no version without it. What use does TB have to writers? Programmers?

Personally, I really hate TB. And unless I have to, I refuse to use MBP because of TB. I find it to be a complete gimmick, and just a distraction. Not just from my work, but also for regular stuff as well (sound, brightness, music controls, etc.). I can think of a lot of scenarios for function keys, and in every scenario that I use function keys, TB is slower, harder to use, and a distraction from what I'm doing at the moment.

And TB (with lousy keyboard quality) is the main reason I won't purchase any new MBP. Either Apple will ditch TB, or they will offer a nTB 15" MBP. Or they will stay on this course. If they continue on with just TB version, well, I will continue on using Lenovo for my mobile needs. And I know a lot of folks who feel the same. Funny thing is, I am in game development industry, and I still haven't met a graphic artists who likes TB 🙂

Fair enough, as a writer I probably wouldn’t use the Touch Bar a fat lot but I would use it in Final Cut when editing. The 13” MacBook Pro does have a version without the Touch Bar tho and there is also a 12” MacBook.

Personally I’m waiting to see what happens this year, there have been rumours that Apple will add a 13” Macbook to the lineup and remove the MacBook Air, depending on the specs I may get one of those to replace my now old 2011 MacBook Pro that has served me really well over these past years.

 

[c0ppo]

The 13” MacBook Pro does have a version without the Touch Bar tho and there is also a 12” MacBook.

nTB 13" has just one fan, compared to two fans on 13". It has a 15W CPU, compared to 28W CPU on TB 13". And it has a worse GPU. So in reality, 13" nTB isn't even a replacement to the TB 13" when compared spec by spec. And all the time I was talking about a 15" MBP.

Some of us need way more power then a 13" MBP can offer.

 

[Dave245]

nTB 13" has just one fan, compared to two fans on 13". It has a 15W CPU, compared to 28W CPU on TB 13". And it has a worse GPU. So in reality, 13" nTB isn't even a replacement to the TB 13" when compared spec by spec. And all the time I was talking about a 15" MBP.

Some of us need way more power then a 13" MBP can offer.

Fair enough, I do think a lot of people can get away with the 13” MacBook Pro but people who do a lot of intensive work will need the 15” Macbook, I just don’t see Apple adding a 15” none Touch Bar any time soon, but then again they are rumoured to be adding a 13” version of the MacBook this year so who knows. Personally I use my iMac when at home for video editing It’s the best desktop I’ve used.

 

[Falhófnir]

Fair enough, I do think a lot of people can get away with the 13” MacBook Pro but people who do a lot of intensive work will need the 15” Macbook, I just don’t see Apple adding a 15” none Touch Bar any time soon, but then again they are rumoured to be adding a 13” version of the MacBook this year so who knows. Personally I use my iMac when at home for video editing It’s the best desktop I’ve used.

I have the issue of the 15" being really overkill for my use, but a 13" machine is just too small and I don't like being tethered to a static display. I'd be more than happy to see a 15" with a 28W cpu priced around 13" territory (£1,699 or so). Of course Apple actually recognising that they last set their prices when £1 = $1.22 and £1 now = $1.40 and adjusting downwards accordingly would also help. I don't mind paying the money as much as its a bit galling to part with the cash when the power would be sitting idle, and with a less powerful configuration I could get a bigger SSD which I would actually use. Of course until the keyboard is categorically fixed, I'm not willing to risk an £2.5k investment bricking after a year unless I shell out £hundreds with no guarantee it won't crap out again further down the line.

 

[dboris]

I was really hopping that Apple would take the Kaby Lake G route: Quad Core and a 4Tflops AMD GPU on a less than 100w chip...

Simlify heat dissipation, more room for the battery.
4 core is more than enough for a laptop.

Would allow a performance boost in FCPX and allow macbook users to play games...

But I guess it wouldn't make the IMacs look good anymore with their very low end GPU... :/.

Either way I'll get the next one, however I need a GPU, so I will have to get an eGPU. Those are pricy. Damn.

 

[Eason85]

Would you mind elaborating on the CPU cooling issues you encountered? I'm probably going to be forced to purchase a new MBP this year, and I've been debating with myself whether upgrading the CPU would be worthwhile.

The fan curve is much too timid, allowing spikes up to 90c before it kicks in. However, the CPU doesn't cool immediately, so it throttles anyway. I was seeing 2.x GHz on all cores during sustained load, and the fan wouldn't even be audible.

So then I tried a fan controller software. What I found then was, not only was the CPU quite hot a lot of the time (if I set the fan to start at 60c, the fan would ALWAYS be on) and this made the machine very loud, but even with the fans maxed (and they are VERY loud), the machine still throttled.

I tried to undervolt, but Apple locked the VIDs. The only thing I didn't try was a gelid extreme repaste. I took off the bottom shell and poked around a few times, but I didn't feel comfortable with that much disassembly on a laptop I was going to return.