Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[The Reasonable One]

Ahh what a shame, with that being said the 580 should be able to handle what I’m looking to throw it’s way at present, as that changes looks like an EGPU will be the way forward.

I’m currently using a 13 inch MBP late 2013 which rocks a 5100.

Fair enough. Just know that the Radeon Pro series 580 is not a full 580 so performace will be weaker and not even really gaming grade for 1080p60 in most new games. At least the Radeon Pro 470 in the 2016 could only do 720p gaming at 60
[doublepost=1527417493][/doublepost]

Umm... wait... but this time around you wanna get a 15", right?
Because if you wish to STAY with 13"... there won't be a dedicated GPU (most most likely).

He’s right. 13 will not get a dgpu unless the world is ending.

 

[Ma2k5]

Could get a 13” and the new e-gpu from Razer which is Mac compatible (albeit AMD for macOS).

 

[bykaraanne]

I don’t remember apple ever doing that. They usually take preorders so it’ll probably be a week. They also seem to like giving people who didn’t watch WWDC enough time to get hyped before the product comes out so they can get word of mouth. Be prepared though, preorders started immediately after the event in 2016. So get your CMD-R muscles ready beforehand for the store page.

Granted my thoughts come with the caveat that I’m thinking of major product releases like redesigns. So take with grain of salt but apple doesn’t usually cause chaos during big releases afaik.
[doublepost=1527412578][/doublepost]Just because no one else is calling it, I think this is going to be the year of A series chips in MacBook Pro either as main processor or as the processor running the iOS apps.

I know this is unlikely but I’m calling it so I’m immortalized in history if it comes true as the forum god who sees the future .

I do genuinely think an A10 or A11 is included to handle low power tasks as was rumored before. Kind of as the bridge between the present and the Star project hybrid Mac. It would drastically improve battery life if they made most things run on the A series so the Intel doesn’t fire all cylinders checking email. My hope is that when they eventually include this this year or later it works basically like automatic graphics switching where one is the default but the other is used when required. Only difference is they both work in tandem and the slave processor just feeds it’s results to the control processor.


Do you think it’s better for the intel or A series to be the control processor. I don’t know enough about processor idle draw to know which way is better. Can someone with more knowledge on the subject shed some light?

Edit: corrected the word star to say A series in one spot

Aw man I’ve already waited so long for the release. Arghhhhhh

 

[fokmik]

so whats the most powerful gpu that can fit the 15" MBP and is not nvidia?

 

[maflynn]

so whats the most powerful gpu that can fit the 15" MBP and is not nvidia?

Apple's history is to never use the fastest GPUs. I remember the days of them downclocking GPUs to slow them down. My usage is such that it doesn't impact me, but even so, I don't expect apple to pick the cream of the crop (GPU wise)

 

[fokmik]

so, amd 560 i suppose

 

[MacRazySwe]

Okay, below are my predictions for WWDC based on local shipping dates and US Shipping. Just fun speculation on my part.

- MacBook 12": Speed bump. Same processor generation (Kaby Lake).

- MacBook Air: New 13" Model?
- MacBook Pro nTB: New 13" Model?

- MacBook Pro 13" TB: Speed bump. New processor generation. 4-core.
- MacBook Pro 15" TB: Speed bump. New processor generation. 6-core.

No new desktops this year.

The MBA (CTOs) and MBP nTB seem to be severely delayed compared to the others. In the US, but also locally.

I do believe we will see the new 13" MacBook (Air) arrive at WWDC, although production was rumored to be delayed until Q3. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and the shipping delays are only due to supply constraints for the most popular models (MBA and cheapest MBP obviously being the best-sellers in todays lineup).

As I mentioned, just speculation on my part but it would make sense, no?

- With the new Quad Core processors, Apple won't be able to meet the same price point with the 13" nTB MBP, so they replace it with a 13" model running Core M-processors, or hopefully 15w Core processors.

- Or, perhaps they could meet the same price point, but they choose to use the Quad Core processor as a reason to move customers upmarket instead. At the same time, they could make TB standard across the range, to further distinguish between MacBook and MacBook Pro models. Thus all Pros would be TB and 4/6 core.

Also, safe to say the 13" MacBook won't be a $899 device, more likely $1299, while the 12" MacBook moves to the $999 price point where it actually belongs.

 

[afir93]

No new desktops this year.

What leads you to this prediction?

As far as I'm aware the chips that Intel would use for the new iMacs are there, and with the 2 additional cores and the big speed increase that comes from it, it would seem foolish for Apple to wait more than half a year longer to put the new iMacs out there. The most likely scenario IMO is that we'll see new iMacs alongside the new MBPs next month, though if that doesn't happen, then I can't see them waiting longer than September/October to release hexa core iMacs.

 

[fokmik]

yes, i think this year Apple will update the imacs too, probably with some redesign as well

 

[Sterkenburg]

It might not be at WWDC, but Apple would be foolish not to release updated iMacs this year. The CPU refresh will be the most significant upgrade in years and the chips are already out, they can't afford to skip it when all the competition is going to offer 6-core machines.

The only reason I can see them wait another 2-3 months is that there aren't (afaik) any really compelling GPU updates available at the moment, but I'm sure they won't sit out of the transition to 6 cores.

 

[Falhófnir]

Interestingly the refurbed 2016 15” MBPs seem to have received another £100 price cut, the base model was going for £1,909 and now listed for £1,809... the 2015 base model is still going for £1,609 as before... not selling do we think?

 

[vseera]

Honestly, all I’m hoping for is quad core on the 13 and an updated keyboard. If that’s all they do, I’m buying one.

Otherwise I’ll be forced to buy the 15 and while I like the bigger screen, I travel a lot and much prefer the form factor of the 13.

 

[Ener Ji]

This I don't quite get. Why does it bother people that there is a 128G option? They should lower the prices for all storage options, but how is it a problem that options are available that you don't use?

I interpret the calls to stop shipping 128GB of storage at the low end as a call to make 256GB of storage the low-end config at the same price as 128GB, and correspondingly decrease the price of 512, 1TB, 2TB, etc. Everyone benefits from more storage for their buck.

Unfortunately people here are saying it will be a rebadge if the Radeon Pro 5xx series from and. The exact name is supposed to be changed from Radeon Pro 580 to Radeon Pro 580X. Basically from what I remember they said it is just driver optimization but the gpu is identical.

Hope this helps and someone corrects me if I’m wrong.

Edit: slight chance of vega but not likely

Ahh what a shame, with that being said the 580 should be able to handle what I’m looking to throw it’s way at present, as that changes looks like an EGPU will be the way forward.

I’m currently using a 13 inch MBP late 2013 which rocks a 5100.

Fair enough. Just know that the Radeon Pro series 580 is not a full 580 so performace will be weaker and not even really gaming grade for 1080p60 in most new games. At least the Radeon Pro 470 in the 2016 could only do 720p gaming at 60

Keep in mind the 570/580 and 570X/580X are likely to be far too power hungry to fit in a MBP. If Vega isn't ready in time, I expect the highest end GPU to be a 560X, much like the current highest end is a 560.

so whats the most powerful gpu that can fit the 15" MBP and is not nvidia?

A mobile Vega with about 12-16 CUs (Compute Units) should provide the best possible performance within the MBP's power budget. If it's ready in time, and that's also if AMD is creating a mobile Vega of that size.

The current big Vega chip is 64 CUs (the cheaper 56 CU version is the same chip with 8 CUs disabled.) AMD implied that they were working on one mobile Vega chip for this year. If AMD feels that the desktop replacement / gaming performance laptops is a more lucrative market, it's possible that mobile Vega is being designed with 24-32 CUs, which would be a very compelling competitor to Nvidia's mobile 1060/1070 chips, but likely would not be a fit for the MBP.

 

[jessydmd]

By the way, what do you all think will happen to the 2015 15" that is still being sold currently?

 

[Falhófnir]

By the way, what do you all think will happen to the 2015 15" that is still being sold currently?

If they can find a solution for an iGPU only version of the new model (as far as I can see that would either be using a 28W Quad U part with iris graphics, using a G series part, or still using a H part as usual but with a very low end custom/cheap dGPU) to hit the $1,999 price point, then it will either be discontinued, or bumped further down in price (the final unibody (2012) 13” stuck around until 2016).

 

[lec0rsaire]

By the way, what do you all think will happen to the 2015 15" that is still being sold currently?

I honestly think production will end this year. It’s only available with the Iris. They stopped selling the early-2015 13” last year. At some point they have to make it clear that the machines with lit up logos are a thing of the past. I expect the MBA to also be discontinued really soon. Selling a machine with a 1440x900 display is ridiculous in 2018. People still keep buying them though. Those on a tight budget that want a new macbook don’t have many options.
[doublepost=1527442816][/doublepost]

If they can find a solution for an iGPU only version of the new model (as far as I can see that would either be using a 28W Quad U part with iris graphics, using a G series part, or still using a H part as usual but with a very low end custom/cheap dGPU) to hit the $1,999 price point, then it will either be discontinued, or bumped further down in price (the final unibody (2012) 13” stuck around until 2016).

I think it will be killed off. The MD101 was a different story because it lacked a Retina display. Selling a 2015 core i7 15” MBP for $1500 or so would cannibalize sales of new product too much. While the hardware is old it is nowhere near obsolete. A lot of people care more about price than anything else. They want the most Max for the lowest price possible. The MBAs are still selling despite offering a base MBP for just $300 more.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think it will be killed off. The MD101 was a different story because it lacked a Retina display. Selling a 2015 core i7 15” MBP for $1500 or so would cannibalize sales of new product too much. While the hardware is old it is nowhere near obsolete. A lot of people care more about price than anything else. They want the most Max for the lowest price possible. The MBAs are still selling despite offering a base MBP for just $300 more.

That is true, but if the production costs are significantly lower for the 2015 model (which is apparently the case, the TB alone supposedly has a meaningful impact on price, not to mention the more precise machining, expensive to implement ports, newer, more expensive chips, newer more expensive SSDs) then it’s possible thy could actually make more money by continuing to sell the 2015... it would likely only cannibalise the 13” if they reduced the price by a couple of hundred $ and as you say, it’s only got iris graphics like the 13” machines. The MacBook lineup sorely lacks a cheaper 15” option but is flooded with choices at 13”...

 

[powerslave12r]

Perhaps, the 2015 version also gives an option to people who would otherwise abandon Macbook Pros due to the lack of ports/proven keyboard etc.

 

[sotorious]

If they do the spec bump only i will be happy with that. I know for a fact they will not change the keyboard design at all because that will send out such a uproar from all people who purchased the last 2 macbooks that it would be terrible for business so the only thing they can do is continue to work on this design.

 

[MacRazySwe]

What leads you to this prediction?

As far as I'm aware the chips that Intel would use for the new iMacs are there, and with the 2 additional cores and the big speed increase that comes from it, it would seem foolish for Apple to wait more than have a year longer to put the new iMacs out there. The most likely scenario IMO is that we'll see new iMacs alongside the new MBPs next month, though if that doesn't happen, then I can't see them waiting longer than September/October to release hexa core iMacs.

Like I said, pure speculation. No shipping delays, even CTO models seem to be shipping ahead of WWDC. Moreover, Apple has been slow to update the iMac in the past. With the exception of the Retina iMac in 2014, they have been on a 2 year release cycle. 2013 - 2015 - 2017. (Which ultimately makes sense, given the declining market share of desktops these days).

Perhaps we will see one in October. It could happen.

However I do think Apple wants the iMac Pro to remain in the spotlight for a bit longer. You could argue they cater to different markets, but there is definitely some cross-shopping between the two (as evident here on MR). A brand spanking new 2018 iMac may seem more appealing to certain buyers, especially at the much lower price point.

As for the Mac Mini and Mac Pro, I don't think I need to explain my reasoning.

 

[Shockwave78]

Even though I run parallels for VM10 ...I am really tempted to go and purchase of the new XPS 15" 2-1 ones. It's just so close to WWDC that I think I should just wait and see what is released. I doubt it will be a big upgrade though and how it would compare to the new XPS updates.

A new keyboard would be nice as well on this 2017 MBP...

 

[CodeJoy]

Quick question for the full fledge non student programmers here:

Instead of having a master and slave processor dynamic would it be effective to the. The OS on a third processor which is essentially the master and all it does is basic system upkeep stuff while relegating anything app related to the intel or more powerful A series chip? I’m just curious if instead of needing one of those chips active to control task routing they’d be able to have a dedicated OS runner and task router with two main processors as the muscle.

I’m basically thinking of the big little approach from the A series chips where the Intel is the powerful one and the A series is the low power one but instead of just a scheduler chip handling things they give they chip the basic OS tasks in order for the power hungry stuff to lie dormant as much as possible.

I haven’t taken operating systems yet (for winter quarter next year) so I don’t know but I’m really hoping one of you knows why this would or wouldn’t work if we ignored the thermals for the 3 chips. I also probably got a term wrong so please correct me as necessary

This isn't really something you'd want to do, for a number of reasons.

From a hardware perspective, when two or more CPU's exist on the same bus and competing for the same resources (like memory, PCI lanes, etc.) they will generally conflict with each other unless they have some protocol to negotiate access to the resources. Or just for cache coherency etc. Xeon processors (for example) can do this between each other. I'm pretty sure they cannot do this with an ARM processor. The usual Core processors can't do this at all. So maybe you could set up some heterogeneous system for coprocessors similar to how a GPU might work, but then you may also end up having to do dedicated memory, or have a nightmare with sharing. Nightmare also meaning that it will be far too slow to be of any practical use.

Then from the software side, you're going to run into a problem very quickly if the OS is another architecture than the app itself. With UNIX and friends, apps need access to the part of the OS where the syscalls are implemented so that this code can be executed from user space processes. On Linux this is achieved my mapping part of the kernel into every user process. Don't know how it's done on Darwin, but wouldn't be surprised if it's something similar. This is of course for performance reasons, syscalls get really slow if you need to context switch as part of each call. Now, what do you think happens if the user space app is executing on the Intel processor, maps ARM syscall code into its memory space, and then starts executing the ARM code? It can't. One might maybe imagine some other way to interface with the OS that allows for this to happen, but it would end up being painfully slow.

But this is all ignoring the fact that it's not really needed. The OS is lightweight enough that it doesn't need to be moved off to a separate CPU.

There's much more that could be said, but the point is that it would be extremely tricky to get it to work at all, and you wouldn't achieve anything desirable with this model. There are probably other ways to achieve something with similar effect though.

 

[simonmet]

What’s truly hilarious is that Apple sells a lesser model of the 2015 MacBook Pro in 2018 for more than I paid in 2015! I bought the maxed-out model in 2015 which had a 2.8-4 GHz CPU, discrete GPU and 1 TB storage. You pay about the same price now for the exact same laptop but without discreet graphics. That’s some f***ed-up logic right there. I’d love to see Phil try to explain that one. This pricing is basically just a giant middle-finger and FU to everyone who doesn’t like the new models.

If you still prefer the 2015 model I recommend trying to find a decent one second-hand or refurbished with the AMD GPU. I sold mine last year but I’m sure it’s still going strong. The discreet graphics were a bit weak but still loads better than the Intel Iris Pro.

 

[richinaus]

What’s truly hilarious is that Apple sells a lesser model of the 2015 MacBook Pro in 2018 for more than I paid in 2015! I bought the maxed-out model in 2015 which had a 2.8-4 GHz CPU, discrete GPU and 1 TB storage. You pay about the same price now for the exact same laptop but without discreet graphics. That’s some f***ed-up logic right there. I’d love to see Phil try to explain that one. This pricing is basically just a giant middle-finger and FU to everyone who doesn’t like the new models.

If you still prefer the 2015 model I recommend trying to find a decent one second-hand or refurbished with the AMD GPU. I sold mine last year but I’m sure it’s still going strong. The discreet graphics were a bit weak but still loads better than the Intel Iris Pro.

I am not Phil but its called the foreign exchange currency market - the AU$ was stronger against the US$ in 2015 than it is now, as was the pound etc. So au$1 buys less now than it did, hence a higher price.

 

[sputnikBA]

So what do you all think is more likely — that we might see a price drop this year, or that they will retain same pricing but increase base storage size?