Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Queen6]

What I think is hurting Apple is their hardware engineering team is stretched thin. We are talking about the same people who work on iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, MacBook, iMac, Watch, HomePod, Mac Pro.

This is obviously affecting how much time and resources they can to get a decent product to market. Lets not forget about the elephant in the room - the iPhone. Its truly hogging all the resources. Sure, maybe if Steve Jobs was around to micromanage and beta test, they including Jony Ive would have to be pulling an all nighter.

If Steve said fix the MacBook Pro today, it would be fixed 6 months ago. But that driving motivation is not there anymore and the reality is, nobody at Apple including Ive particularly liked that approach to management.

They still believe they are doing their best work, but right now, its particularly about, good enough and just coasting it out.

Apple's next wave are some high level things: services, AR, automation, wearables and health.

Its understandable because what more is there to really exploit to really improve the user experience in something like the MacBook Pro other than faster chips? Lets not forget, Apple is not on the brink of bankruptcy anymore, they are a mainstream consumer electronics company. It started with the iPod, became official with the iPhone in 2007 when they changed their name to Apple Inc. Ordained by Steve Jobs himself. So, this was all planned.

When I see thousands of people entering a twitter contest to hopefully win a 2017 MacBook Pro, that even gives into theory that maybe they are doing something right.

You think Steve Jobs didn't have a sit down with the leadership in early 2011 to ordain all thats happening now?

Apple's not lacking resources, Apple's simply lacking interest. As long as Apple can produce a desktop orientated product with just enough performance for it's IOS developer's it will, net result the mediocre Mac lineup we see today.

Steve Jobs was an enigma, I've worked with similar personalities myself; by far the most challenging, by far the most antagonistic, by far the most rewarding, would I go back? absolutely in a heartbeat as that's a place where the "magic" can really happen...

IMO Apple's lost that intrinsic "magic" Steve's Apple was hungry, innovative & adventurous, Tim's Apple is fat, lazy & greedy...

Q-6

 

[CodeJoy]

Soldering - so if anything goes wrong I lose the machine for days while Apple repair it. That isn't good on a professional machine used daily.

I can accept and understand soldered everything else, but a soldered SSD is really a problem with a professional machine. It means you can't pop it over to another machine temporarily while the main one is getting serviced. Backup and restore via time machine does work, but takes quite a while at least when I've done it.

 

[Queen6]

I can accept and understand soldered everything else, but a soldered SSD is really a problem with a professional machine. It means you can't pop it over to another machine temporarily while the main one is getting serviced. Backup and restore via time machine does work, but takes quite a while at least when I've done it.

More importantly you loose physical control of potentially sensitive client data. The primary advantage is Apple's as it reduces production cost and allows for a thinner chassis...

Q-6

 

[Mr. Dee]

Apple's not lacking resources, Apple's simply lacking interest. As long as Apple can produce a desktop orientated product with just enough performance for it's IOS developer's it will, net result the mediocre Mac lineup we see today.

Steve Jobs was an enigma, I've worked with similar personalities myself; by far the most challenging, by far the most antagonistic, by far the most rewarding, would I go back? absolutely in a heartbeat as that's a place where the "magic" can really happen...

IMO Apple's lost that intrinsic "magic" Steve's Apple was hungry, innovative & adventurous, Tim's Apple is fat, lazy & greedy...

Q-6

Part of the reality is, you and I are from a different generation of Apple users. We are part of the 'Apple Computers' generation. The leadership now is now driving product development according to what the user base looks like - iOS.

That popular developer Steven Troughton-Smith (who is part of the Apple Computer generation), quoted a tweet from someone who attended WWDC 2018.

The developer was in line to get in, having a small chit chat about his first WWDC back in 1991. There were a bunch of teenage developers behind him gossiping about the fact that there was even a WWDC back in 1991. Some said, this was way before they were born. One said they couldn't even imagine what they even developed back then other than maybe Mac apps.

This was startling to read, but what it and WWDC 2018 exposed was how dominant iOS development is. AppKit versus UIKit. Most developers who start out on Apple's platforms most times are new to it through UIKit. Its two different experiences, most of those coming from UIKit describing AppKit more complex.

So, its about mindshare and based on what Apple is seeing based in the internal data.

Back in Steve Jobs days, it was build it and they will come, but in 2018 and beyond, its about keeping that user base happy.

You need a Mac anyway to build iOS apps and iOS is so popular, Apple knows it doesn't need to sweat the details to make the tool that makes the apps really that much better.

 

[simonmet]

I can accept and understand soldered everything else, but a soldered SSD is really a problem with a professional machine. It means you can't pop it over to another machine temporarily while the main one is getting serviced. Backup and restore via time machine does work, but takes quite a while at least when I've done it.

This is such a good point!

 

[richinaus]

Part of the reality is, you and I are from a different generation of Apple users. We are part of the 'Apple Computers' generation. The leadership now is now driving product development according to what the user base looks like - iOS.

That popular developer Steven Troughton-Smith (who is part of the Apple Computer generation), quoted a tweet from someone who attended WWDC 2018.

The developer was in line to get in, having a small chit chat about his first WWDC back in 1991. There were a bunch of teenage developers behind him gossiping about the fact that there was even a WWDC back in 1991. Some said, this was way before they were born. One said they couldn't even imagine what they even developed back then other than maybe Mac apps.

This was startling to read, but what it and WWDC 2018 exposed was how dominant iOS development is. AppKit versus UIKit. Most developers who start out on Apple's platforms most times are new to it through UIKit. Its two different experiences, most of those coming from UIKit describing AppKit more complex.

So, its about mindshare and based on what Apple is seeing based in the internal data.

Back in Steve Jobs days, it was build it and they will come, but in 2018 and beyond, its about keeping that user base happy.

You need a Mac anyway to build iOS apps and iOS is so popular, Apple knows it doesn't need to sweat the details to make the tool that makes the apps really that much better.

We only need to look at their revenue streams to understand the differences in priority also.
They certainly are consumer driven over ‘computer’ driven, and quite rightly so. I would do the same if Apple was my business, and put my focus into iOS and its hardware.

 

[PhilMacbook]

We only need to look at their revenue streams to understand the differences in priority also.
They certainly are consumer driven over ‘computer’ driven, and quite rightly so. I would do the same if Apple was my business, and put my focus into iOS and its hardware.

True but a near trillion dollar company should be capable of both.

 

[Future-Proof]

Does anyone know why they solder RAM? Is it to prevent it from dislodging upon carrying it around?

 

[TrashCan]

Does anyone know why they solder RAM? Is it to prevent it from dislodging upon carrying it around?

It weight less and takes less space.

 

[Mr. Dee]

True but a near trillion dollar company should be capable of both.

1 trillion can't buy talent. Excellent developers are a scarce human resource. Lets remember Apple's home turf is surrounded by the competition fighting for those same developers: Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Uber, Twitter, Adobe; and those are just the well known ones. Also, its not about throwing more engineers at the problem. The other issue is the American entrepreneurial spirit. Many developers these days seem to be moving away from buy me out mentality. They actually want to become the competition and grow their business.

Steve Jobs spoiled us with the couple of guys working out of the garage one man show years. We thought Steve was the only one designing these products and bringing it to the people. Steve definitely was good at managing Apple and selling the products. But in reality, engineering these products is actually really hard and requires a good team of engineers.

We are talking about orchestrating both hardware and software engineers under one roof to really be on the same page vision wise.

We have to remember, the 12 or 16 year old attending WWDC in 2018 will likely be the one defining the vision of what Apple products look and work like 10 years from now. Their philosophy of computing will not align with ours any more in fact. The ratio of consumers/everyday/average users is higher than those who are developers.

So, what Apple see's as being able to reach the masses is what they will go after. Its just business.

The marketing stuff like computing for the rest of us is slowly dying. If you can't accept it, ask those who used Punch Cards, Terminals and Disk Operating Systems.

Not saying the clamshell, iMac and tower computers will go away. But for the vast majority, an iPad will be all the computing they need. Not everyone needs a computer that can run Final Cut Pro or Xcode. That is Apple's future market.

 

[powerslave12r]

Apple still sells the 2015 model.

What if they upgrade that model to an i7-8750H + DDR4 and keep everything else the same..

 

[Ma2k5]

It weight less and takes less space.

Simplified manufacturing process too and there is cost savings due to no slotting in or connector costs.

 

[OzyOly]

17 weeks until a potential October event. I can imagine this thread exploding if Apple delayed to a January event.

 

[PhilMacbook]

1 trillion can't buy talent. Excellent developers are a scarce human resource. Lets remember Apple's home turf is surrounded by the competition fighting for those same developers: Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Uber, Twitter, Adobe; and those are just the well known ones. Also, its not about throwing more engineers at the problem. The other issue is the American entrepreneurial spirit. Many developers these days seem to be moving away from buy me out mentality. They actually want to become the competition and grow their business.

Steve Jobs spoiled us with the couple of guys working out of the garage one man show years. We thought Steve was the only one designing these products and bringing it to the people. Steve definitely was good at managing Apple and selling the products. But in reality, engineering these products is actually really hard and requires a good team of engineers.

We are talking about orchestrating both hardware and software engineers under one roof to really be on the same page vision wise.

We have to remember, the 12 or 16 year old attending WWDC in 2018 will likely be the one defining the vision of what Apple products look and work like 10 years from now. Their philosophy of computing will not align with ours any more in fact. The ratio of consumers/everyday/average users is higher than those who are developers.

So, what Apple see's as being able to reach the masses is what they will go after. Its just business.

The marketing stuff like computing for the rest of us is slowly dying. If you can't accept it, ask those who used Punch Cards, Terminals and Disk Operating Systems.

Not saying the clamshell, iMac and tower computers will go away. But for the vast majority, an iPad will be all the computing they need. Not everyone needs a computer that can run Final Cut Pro or Xcode. That is Apple's future market.

I see what you mean in the wider picture but this thread and my point was about MBP. I think a trillion dollar company should be able to focus whatever it decides its priority products are plus have a team dedicated to not losing focus on the Mac.

Most of the criticism people raise against current MBPs (keyboard, ports, TouchBar) should be small fry for Apple to address. I don't think you need fantastic cutting edge talent for that.

They've stopped making iPods and Time Capsules so they could divert some of the staff from those teams if they are short. Apple isn't sending people to Mars or curing cancer and I really think a company that wealthy should, if properly run, be able to focus a little bit better on the Mac, not a lot but a little.

 

[Ma2k5]

17 weeks until a potential October event. I can imagine this thread exploding if Apple delayed to a January event.

After the legendary “Waiting for sky lake”, don’t see people exploding if nothing happens this October.

 

[galactic orange]

Apple still sells the 2015 model.

What if they upgrade that model to an i7-8750H + DDR4 and keep everything else the same..

That’s not likely to happen. But those upgrades plus updating the Thunderbolt 2 ports to Thunderbolt 3 while keeping the two USB-A ports would be a dream machine. In fact, I’d wager that a machine with both kinds of USB ports would encourage more people like me to upgrade; moreso than a USB-C only system would.

I can’t help but think that this is what the 2016 MBP should have been, with the 2017 being exactly what it is, keyboard issues notwithstanding.

 

[richinaus]

I see what you mean in the wider picture but this thread and my point was about MBP. I think a trillion dollar company should be able to focus whatever it decides its priority products are plus have a team dedicated to not losing focus on the Mac.

Most of the criticism people raise against current MBPs (keyboard, ports, TouchBar) should be small fry for Apple to address. I don't think you need fantastic cutting edge talent for that.

They've stopped making iPods and Time Capsules so they could divert some of the staff from those teams if they are short. Apple isn't sending people to Mars or curing cancer and I really think a company that wealthy should, if properly run, be able to focus a little bit better on the Mac, not a lot but a little.

Yes, but why is more the point. They don’t have to really, and probably do more so out of heritage and market share / perception.

In my work I tend to work more on the things that will bring in more $ that I also like doing rather than the things I like doing that bring in only a few $ [obviously not in the same league as Apple but is all relative]. They become the side hustle really, which is what Apple computers are in reality.

I agree that you would think that Apple would like to improve on the keyboard, touchbar etc on the computers, but I think it tends to follow this :

1. Its not their core business
2. Do they think it is a problem themselves? Jonny has hinted that they listen, but his focus is all over the place.
3. Does it matter to them how quickly they fix it?
4. They are not a charity but a business
5. Their priorities are different to yours
6. Apple have always done things in their own time
7. Apple are a consumer business not a computer business
8. They know their direction and roadmap over the next 3- 5 years, you don’t. They are making decisions based on the goals not the present. If market share was a big deal in computers they certainly would be making more effort, but it is quite obviously not. They are simply nice tools to get most computing jobs done.

 

[PhilMacbook]

Yes, but why is more the point. They don’t have to really, and probably do more so out of heritage and market share / perception.

In my work I tend to work more on the things that will bring in more $ that I also like doing rather than the things I like doing that bring in only a few $ [obviously not in the same league as Apple but is all relative]. They become the side hustle really, which is what Apple computers are in reality.

I agree that you would think that Apple would like to improve on the keyboard, touchbar etc on the computers, but I think it tends to follow this :

1. Its not their core business
2. Do they think it is a problem themselves? Jonny has hinted that they listen, but his focus is all over the place.
3. Does it matter to them how quickly they fix it?
4. They are not a charity but a business
5. Their priorities are different to yours
6. Apple have always done things in their own time
7. Apple are a consumer business not a computer business
8. They know their direction and roadmap over the next 3- 5 years, you don’t. They are making decisions based on the goals not the present. If market share was a big deal in computers they certainly would be making more effort, but it is quite obviously not. They are simply nice tools to get most computing jobs done.

Thanks. That is all self-evident.

 

[richinaus]

Thanks. That is all self-evident.

Unfortunately yes, and took me awhile to truly realise it and nearly jumped ship because of it.

However, I still believe despite all the complaining on here, Apples’ low priority computers are still better than everything else out there for most people.

Not sure for how much longer though.

 

[PhilMacbook]

Unfortunately yes, and took me awhile to truly realise it and nearly jumped ship because of it.

However, I still believe despite all the complaining on here, Apples’ low priority computers are still better than everything else out there for most people.

Not sure for how much longer though.

I agree. There is zero chance of me leaving MacOS. I posted earlier I don't need a new MBP but I want one. I'm not complaining that Apple don't make what I want but I will be happy if they do at the next launch. You are right, either way I'm still happy with the MBP I have even if it is 6 years old.

 

[Loge]

That’s not likely to happen. But those upgrades plus updating the Thunderbolt 2 ports to Thunderbolt 3 while keeping the two USB-A ports would be a dream machine. In fact, I’d wager that a machine with both kinds of USB ports would encourage more people like me to upgrade; moreso than a USB-C only system would.

I can’t help but think that this is what the 2016 MBP should have been, with the 2017 being exactly what it is, keyboard issues notwithstanding.

If they'd used DDR4 in 2016 they wouldn't have been able to switch to LP-DDR3 in 2017 as it would have been a downgrade in RAM.

 

[Mr. Dee]

I see what you mean in the wider picture but this thread and my point was about MBP. I think a trillion dollar company should be able to focus whatever it decides its priority products are plus have a team dedicated to not losing focus on the Mac.

Most of the criticism people raise against current MBPs (keyboard, ports, TouchBar) should be small fry for Apple to address. I don't think you need fantastic cutting edge talent for that.

They've stopped making iPods and Time Capsules so they could divert some of the staff from those teams if they are short. Apple isn't sending people to Mars or curing cancer and I really think a company that wealthy should, if properly run, be able to focus a little bit better on the Mac, not a lot but a little.

I think Apple's approach to hardware engineering has been its advantage and Achilles heel. They tend to do it sequentially.

We talk about big bang features are probably whats holding up the MacBook Pro, but I think its actually the Mac Pro and maybe even the Mac Mini. Thats likely the priority right now and they want to have that probably ready by WWDC 2019.

This company's secret nature has always been hard to tell whats going on. I don't think less products to develop, especially accessories gives them more freedom to invest in current products. In fact, it might actually free up those human resources to work on future products 5 to 10 years out (R&D).

Remember when the rumors about the Apple Car in the works had like a 1,000 people working on it? Then all of a sudden, we heard it was killed off and those people went to work on other projects. You can imagine how teams within the company quickly consumed up what was available while some likely left the company in pursuit of other projects.

The issues you pointed out like the USB C ports I think are just Apple's usual bold step moving the industry in a particular direction.

My brother is a field engineer and the only complaint I have heard from him about the 2017 MBP is macOS uses too much mobile data. Because he has to work on machines at customer sites, test and send in feedback, macOS eats up his mobile data. Recommended Trip Mode and it seems to be working.

 

[galactic orange]

If they'd used DDR4 in 2016 they wouldn't have been able to switch to LP-DDR3 in 2017 as it would have been a downgrade in RAM.

I’m willing to wait for LP-DDR4. Mainly, want the ability to use 32GB in a MBP. What kind of RAM is used or the impact on battery life is less a priority for me. I understand why they used what they did in the 2017.

 

[jpep]

I don't know. Still not making headlines on news, like the other class action lawsuits on Apple products,
Still will wait a bit or just go ahead and get latest mbp, or Hp Spectre. Too bad Memorial day sales were great.
Maybe for the 4th or Back to School sales. For my son starting High school.

 

[Haust]

Went to an Apple store, Fashion Valley Mall, San Diego, and noticed that the letter “j” didn’t work on the display model 15” MBP. I tried to show the floor guy the problem. I asked him to type “jelly”. He looked at me like I was trying to trick him. Finally I gave up and explained that the letter j wasn’t working and I was going to suggest that they consider swapping it out. Instead he said it just needed to be turned off and back on again. I just walked away shaking my head.

BTW, this store has the worst Apple employees ever. Just an all around awful experience. I'm no hater, I own a ton of Apple stuff and I’m considering a 15 inch MBP. This experience has really set me back from buying one.