Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[Populus]

If there were a 15" MacBook Pro without TouchBar, I'd seriously consider buying an hexa-core 15" MBP, with a dedicated GPU. Because overall size would be similar to my 2010 13" MacBook Pro, and it would have four thunderbolt 3 ports (2 ports is not enough sometimes). Also the more powerful CPU and GPU.

But most probably the lineup will still be the same, so... Fingers crossed for Apple to keep the 13" nTB, and have it updated with a quad-core and same or better integrated graphics (not the UHD620).

 

[TheralSadurns]

Best guess for when the hexa-core MacBook Pros come out?

I'd say... March event. Apple used to update the MBPs and PowerBooks more than once a year. Usually every 6-9 months.
This would be roughly 9 months. And new CPUs seem to be available. Why wait any longer? When the competition starts putting hexacore CPUs in their machines?!

If they REALLY wanna wait... then June with WWDC...

 

[The Mercurian]

If there were a 15" MacBook Pro without TouchBar, I'd seriously consider buying an hexa-core 15" MBP, with a dedicated GPU. Because overall size would be similar to my 2010 13" MacBook Pro, and it would have four thunderbolt 3 ports (2 ports is not enough sometimes). Also the more powerful CPU and GPU.

But most probably the lineup will still be the same, so... Fingers crossed for Apple to keep the 13" nTB, and have it updated with a quad-core and same or better integrated graphics (not the UHD620).

There better be a 15" sans TouchBar sans FaceID option or I'll be buying a Dell !

 

[ThisBougieLife]

If there is a 15" sans TouchBar it will probably be lower-specd, like the 13", so I doubt the hexacore processor would be available with it.

 

[The Mercurian]

If there is a 15" sans TouchBar it will probably be lower-specd, like the 13", so I doubt the hexacore processor would be available with it.

=> Dell !

 

[Populus]

=> Dell !

You mean... the Dell XPS 2017?
I've seen quite a few reviews on YouTube, and it seems OK as a laptop, but it lacks that appeal of Apple. That gorgeous design, that attention to detail, those materials, the build quality... and macOS, but that's bothering me less and less over time, because Windows 10 rules, and macOS is becoming worse after every yearly release.

 

[audiomatt]

You mean... the Dell XPS 2017?
I've seen quite a few reviews on YouTube, and it seems OK as a laptop, but it lacks that appeal of Apple. That gorgeous design, that attention to detail, those materials, the build quality... and macOS, but that's bothering me less and less over time, because Windows 10 rules, and macOS is becoming worse after every yearly release.

All those positive traits seem to be hold overs from a jobsian trajectory that is being counteracted by current forces. Everything that's been changed since he died has not been detail-oriented or built well : see the MBP keyboard.

 

[Populus]

All those positive traits seem to be hold overs from a jobsian trajectory that is being counteracted by current forces. Everything that's been changed since he died has not been detail-oriented or built well : see the MBP keyboard.

Yes, the new keyboard is a mess.

Still, I'll wait to see if the 2018 MacBook Pros have an improved keyboard system. Because THEY KNOW something's wrong with it.

 

[The Mercurian]

You mean... the Dell XPS 2017?
I've seen quite a few reviews on YouTube, and it seems OK as a laptop, but it lacks that appeal of Apple. That gorgeous design, that attention to detail, those materials, the build quality... and macOS, but that's bothering me less and less over time, because Windows 10 rules, and macOS is becoming worse after every yearly release.

I actually find the XPS aesthetically better than the current MBPs! But I mean the XPS 2018 whenever that comes out with hex core chips.

Bascially if I don't have an option to buy the next MBP 15" without a touch bar but with the powerful spec I will be buying something else with real keys. Probably the next version of the Dell.

 

[TheralSadurns]

There better be a 15" sans TouchBar sans FaceID option or I'll be buying a Dell !

Cue the empty threats. Either you are a real Mac user... but then you cannot really easily switch to windows... because half the software and/or features you need are not available.

Or you never really were a real Mac user, but simply had a Mac... and used it...

Plus... I don't get the whining about Fave ID. Seriously. If you don't trust it, don't use it.
Half my colleagues at work don't wanna use Touch ID... because it's dangerous. And the NSA and blah.
But use the crappy fingerprint sensor for Windows Hello on their new Dell convertibles. Ya. That's so much safer...

 

[The Mercurian]

Cue the empty threats. Either you are a real Mac user... but then you cannot really easily switch to windows... because half the software and/or features you need are not available.

Or you never really were a real Mac user, but simply had a Mac... and used it...

Plus... I don't get the whining about Fave ID. Seriously. If you don't trust it, don't use it.
Half my colleagues at work don't wanna use Touch ID... because it's dangerous. And the NSA and blah.
But use the crappy fingerprint sensor for Windows Hello on their new Dell convertibles. Ya. That's so much safer...

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise I had to pass your "real Mac user" test to have an opinion. I've had probably 10 macbooks over the last 15 years or so, numerous ipads and a couple of iphones. Do I qualify ? But at the end of the day its just a tool. If windows can do the same or better job for cheaper I'll grin and bear with windows...or.....shudder....learn linux. Most of us are not religious fan-boys my friend, but simply have stuff to get done.

 

[Poki]

I agree that the reported keyboard reliability issues are something that should be fixed. However, I think that these keyboards are some of the best I've ever used. The key stability is far better than anything I've tried in the past, the key size is great for quick typing, and my typing speed is even better than with previous Apple keyboards.

When something's so different from anything that came before it, I understand that many people don't like it at first. And obviously there's never anything that everyone likes. But for me, the keyboard is one of the biggest advantages over previous MacBook Pro designs.

 

[Martyimac]

Cue the empty threats. Either you are a real Mac user... but then you cannot really easily switch to windows... because half the software and/or features you need are not available.

Or you never really were a real Mac user, but simply had a Mac... and used it...

Plus... I don't get the whining about Fave ID. Seriously. If you don't trust it, don't use it.
Half my colleagues at work don't wanna use Touch ID... because it's dangerous. And the NSA and blah.
But use the crappy fingerprint sensor for Windows Hello on their new Dell convertibles. Ya. That's so much safer...

So the fact that I have been using Macs since the Apple IIe came out doesn't qualify me as a real mac user?
I guess not because I also have two Windows 10 machines in the house which are my responsibility to keep up and running, and I can easily go back and forth between them. Does that mean I am not a real mac user?
When I have the programs on both platforms but prefer the Mac, does that make me not a real mac user?
As to not liking face ID, If I don't like it and don't want it does that make me not a real mac user?
I don't use touch ID on my iPhone, does that make me not a real mac user.
So according to you, what does make a "real mac user"?

 

[The Reasonable One]

Highly doubt it. Steve Jobs said that touchscreens are not natural for laptop usage. Also Federighi stated that they have had working prototypes of this concept, and didn't see that it was necessary or useful.

From my personal experience, i can back this up. I have Windows Asus laptop that does have touchscreen. But really never ever use it. The screen wobbles and really it is not precise enough. Also for this you have to move your hands up from the touchpad and keyboard. It isn't really a move that you want to do 500x a day.

Also the fact that Apple's touchpads are almost perfect in terms of precision compared to Windows laptops. I don't think that any time soon we will see touchscreens in Macbook/Macbook Pros. And to me, it's a good thing that way.

The only reason I said we might get one is the universal application thing that allows iOS apps to run on Macs. This makes it seem like we'd need touch support.
[doublepost=1514945848][/doublepost]

Whilst I totally agree with what you say in using a touch screen like this, my personal usage would benefit from having a stylus enabled screen like the Surface Book. I wouldn't use it as a touch screen in laptop mode, but the benefit of the stylus for marking up documents and being able to sketch etc on the same computer is a big bonus to me.
I am very close to buying a SB2 15" for this very reason, instead of a MBP...... but I know I am in the minority.
[doublepost=1514750447][/doublepost]

This is where I am at at present, as do believe an dedicated laptop and dedicated tablet are the best option, however having a mobile 15" drawing tablet in my laptop would be a big bonus to me. I found the 12" iPad too big when carrying the 15" MBP too. The 10.5 is a fantastic device but I feel limited by the screen sometimes.

As usual every user has their own specific needs and no devices is ever perfect.

Don't buy the surface book 2. I just did and it is super glitchy. Returned it yesterday. BE WARNED lol

 

[Poki]

Don't buy the surface book 2. I just did and it is super glitchy. Returned it yesterday. BE WARNED lol

I tried one at a local store a few months back and the demo unit freaked out every time I docked or undocked it. That was enough to put me off - if they can't even get the store demo to work correctly, I don't want to buy into this trouble.

 

[The Reasonable One]

I tried one at a local store a few months back and the demo unit freaked out every time I docked or undocked it. That was enough to put me off - if they can't even get the store demo to work correctly, I don't want to buy into this trouble.

mine made a dinging noise every time it was undocked. Sounded like the metal pin mechanism was damaged. I was really scared but it still "worked" so I assumed this was how it was supposed to be. And that sound really annoyed me. It was extremely tinny and hurt my ears. Pretty sure it was defective since this happened the first time I undocked it.
[doublepost=1514965826][/doublepost]

If there is a 15" sans TouchBar it will probably be lower-specd, like the 13", so I doubt the hexacore processor would be available with it.

Hey I remember you from the Skylake thread. How's your 2016 holding up? Is the battery life issue fixed. I remember you did like photo editing and stuff so you had to have been straining the 10 hour promise at least a little bit even after patches?

 

[TheralSadurns]

So the fact that I have been using Macs since the Apple IIe came out doesn't qualify me as a real mac user?
I guess not because I also have two Windows 10 machines in the house which are my responsibility to keep up and running, and I can easily go back and forth between them. Does that mean I am not a real mac user?
When I have the programs on both platforms but prefer the Mac, does that make me not a real mac user?
As to not liking face ID, If I don't like it and don't want it does that make me not a real mac user?
I don't use touch ID on my iPhone, does that make me not a real mac user.
So according to you, what does make a "real mac user"?

Replace 'real Mac user' with poweruser if you prefer that. Living without column view in finder and expanding multiple folders at once, without time machine, without maildrop, without an actual UNIX terminal/console, a built-in dictionary and thesaurus, quicklook, preview, ACTUAL color profile management, precise font rendering, a HOST of applications, … Life in Windows is HELL. If NONE of that bothers you... good for you. Not the target group I'm talking about.

And your Touch ID comment literally supported what I said.
The original argument was: If new MBP = FaceID Then nobuy.
My argument was... to just not use it!
Now you say... I have an iPhone and don't use Touch ID. Which is fine.
But then... why can you BUY an iPhone and not use Touch ID... but not buy a MBP and not use Face ID?
[doublepost=1514975122][/doublepost]

Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise I had to pass your "real Mac user" test to have an opinion. I've had probably 10 macbooks over the last 15 years or so, numerous ipads and a couple of iphones. Do I qualify ? But at the end of the day its just a tool. If windows can do the same or better job for cheaper I'll grin and bear with windows...or.....shudder....learn linux. Most of us are not religious fan-boys my friend, but simply have stuff to get done.

That's what I'm saying. If youre line of work requires you to... Idk... use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, … you are primarily a MS Office user. Whether you happen to own a Mac... or a PC or whatever... doesn't alter this fact. You can probably equate my "Mac User" with poweruser... someone who uses the platform specifically for the platform. And that is something that cannot easily be changed.

 

[The Mercurian]

And your Touch ID comment literally supported what I said.
The original argument was: If new MBP = FaceID Then nobuy.
My argument was... to just not use it!
Now you say... I have an iPhone and don't use Touch ID. Which is fine.
But then... why can you BUY an iPhone and not use Touch ID... but not buy a MBP and not use Face ID?

Many of us don't want to PAY for these features we have no intention to use. the TouchBar/TouchID added hugely to price of current models. Simply make it an option - those who want it can pay extra for it and those who don't, won't. Simples.

That's what I'm saying. If youre line of work requires you to... Idk... use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, … you are primarily a MS Office user. Whether you happen to own a Mac... or a PC or whatever... doesn't alter this fact. You can probably equate my "Mac User" with poweruser... someone who uses the platform specifically for the platform. And that is something that cannot easily be changed.

Oh excuse me! So I use Word, Excel, Powerpoint I'm not a "Mac User"/?poweruser" according to you ? Actually most of what I use is platform independent statistical software. In the background as I type right now there is a series of models running in R/Jags that will likely take a month. Is that not ..ahem..."poweruser" stuff? I do also use Word/Office/Excel because the people I collaborate with all use it and I simply don't have the option of not using it (like 90% of all people who write documents collaboratively!!!!).

I'm agnostic regarding system - once I get the job done. I have preferred Mac for last 10 years or so, but the direction they are increasingly heading is driving me to Windows or Linux....like many others. And no Apple customer is required to meet your definitions of "Mac User" or "poweruser" in order to have a valid opinion.

 

[maflynn]

Don't buy the surface book 2. I just did and it is super glitchy. Returned it yesterday. BE WARNED lol

Are you sure the issues you had are systematic with the whole model-line and not just your machine? I've not followed the Surface Book models for a little while, but from what I've heard they were well received and an improvement on the older model. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Martyimac]

Replace 'real Mac user' with poweruser if you prefer that. Living without column view in finder and expanding multiple folders at once, without time machine, without maildrop, without an actual UNIX terminal/console, a built-in dictionary and thesaurus, quicklook, preview, ACTUAL color profile management, precise font rendering, a HOST of applications, … Life in Windows is HELL. If NONE of that bothers you... good for you. Not the target group I'm talking about.

And your Touch ID comment literally supported what I said.
The original argument was: If new MBP = FaceID Then nobuy.
My argument was... to just not use it!
Now you say... I have an iPhone and don't use Touch ID. Which is fine.
But then... why can you BUY an iPhone and not use Touch ID... but not buy a MBP and not use Face ID?
[doublepost=1514975122][/doublepost]

That's what I'm saying. If youre line of work requires you to... Idk... use Word, Excel, PowerPoint, … you are primarily a MS Office user. Whether you happen to own a Mac... or a PC or whatever... doesn't alter this fact. You can probably equate my "Mac User" with poweruser... someone who uses the platform specifically for the platform. And that is something that cannot easily be changed.

Poweruser i can accept as I know I am no power user.
But I don't understand the highlighted sentence? The double negative has me confused.

 

[TheralSadurns]

Poweruser i can accept as I know I am no power user.
But I don't understand the highlighted sentence? The double negative has me confused.

I meant (you is not "you personally" here, but the generalized one):

iPhone has Touch ID, you don't like Touch ID, you STILL BUY iPhone, but don't use Touch ID.

MacBook Pro has Face ID, you don't like Face ID, you REFUSE TO BUY MBP.

Because I've heard a lot of people say this. What is the difference between the two?
[doublepost=1515006730][/doublepost]

Many of us don't want to PAY for these features we have no intention to use. the TouchBar/TouchID added hugely to price of current models. Simply make it an option - those who want it can pay extra for it and those who don't, won't. Simples.



Oh excuse me! So I use Word, Excel, Powerpoint I'm not a "Mac User"/?poweruser" according to you ? Actually most of what I use is platform independent statistical software. In the background as I type right now there is a series of models running in R/Jags that will likely take a month. Is that not ..ahem..."poweruser" stuff? I do also use Word/Office/Excel because the people I collaborate with all use it and I simply don't have the option of not using it (like 90% of all people who write documents collaboratively!!!!).

I'm agnostic regarding system - once I get the job done. I have preferred Mac for last 10 years or so, but the direction they are increasingly heading is driving me to Windows or Linux....like many others. And no Apple customer is required to meet your definitions of "Mac User" or "poweruser" in order to have a valid opinion.

That is EXACTLY what I am saying. You're not a Mac user as to how I understand the definition. You are a user of MS Office and R etc. You just happened to use it on a Mac... nothing here really inherently ties you to it as a platform. And that is exactly the point. You can be pissed at Apple (or at me... because I can be a bit of an as* trying to prove a point!) and simply switch. Whether Apple includes or excludes a feature... you may like or hate... you can simply switch platforms. A lot of other people, that are per my definition "real Mac users", have no other choice. They HAVE to take what Apple gives them. Period. You use Final Cut and Keynote... hf even just TRYING to switch platforms.
You use MS Office and R... np. macOS, Windows, what's the difference?

 

[The Mercurian]

That is EXACTLY what I am saying. You're not a Mac user as to how I understand the definition. You are a user of MS Office and R etc. You just happened to use it on a Mac... nothing here really inherently ties you to it as a platform. And that is exactly the point. You can be pissed at Apple (or at me... because I can be a bit of an as* trying to prove a point!) and simply switch. Whether Apple includes or excludes a feature... you may like or hate... you can simply switch platforms. A lot of other people, that are per my definition "real Mac users", have no other choice. They HAVE to take what Apple gives them. Period. You use Final Cut and Keynote... hf even just TRYING to switch platforms.
You use MS Office and R... np. macOS, Windows, what's the difference?

What software exists only on Mac that does not have an alternative on another platform ?

 

[Martyimac]

I meant (you is not "you personally" here, but the generalized one):

iPhone has Touch ID, you don't like Touch ID, you STILL BUY iPhone, but don't use Touch ID.

MacBook Pro has Face ID, you don't like Face ID, you REFUSE TO BUY MBP.

Because I've heard a lot of people say this. What is the difference between the two?

You need to ask the folks that have said that about MBP, I haven't. I haven't spent any time on the MBP forums lately.

 

[TheralSadurns]

What software exists only on Mac that does not have an alternative on another platform ?

Pages, Numbers, Keynote. Stuff I use there cannot be converted to MS Office. And I honestly don't think they can be compared. And not that it is very advanced stuff. But just having the ability to have MULTIPLE tables on one sheet... it's ridiculous Excel does not support this.

And as mentioned above OS level features, like Maildrop, Timemachine, column view and expanding folders in Finder, all AWOL in Windows. Not to speak of iMessage and FaceTime. A full UNIX console, Totals (an App I use for writing invoices). And, also like I said before, color profile management that actually works. And fonts that render correctly.

If I have a document with say... Helvetica Neue. The Pages file, the PDF in Preview, etc. they all look the same. I print it out... still the same. The identical file on a Windows machine... no matter whether I use Word, or Acrobat Pro... the font looks nothing like the print out...

Yes... there may be other ways of doing so...
But tell someone who drives a BMW... to drive a Dacia from now on. He won't like it. Even if you tell him, that it basically does the same... get him from A to B.

 

[Trolle]

Best guess for when the hexa-core MacBook Pros come out?

Have you read the entire thread? It's either Spring, Summer (WWDC) , or Fall.