Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[haydn!]

Well, the question is, are you willing to pay the premium for that? I hear in the past, that premium would be +20% to +50% of comparable Windows hardware. Nowadays it can be 200% to 300%!! I do go for "fancier" stuff every now and then (e.g. my phone costs $220 instead of a flip phone that could be had for close to free), but I've more and more appreciated what you can get sometimes without having to shell out extra funds.
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100 GB of space, + 96 GB of RAM occupied!! That reminds me that I don't even recall how much RAM my system has! (I had to look it up... 8 GB of DDR3 SDRAM @1333MHz, 2 sticks of 2 GB)

2-300% premium? Where have you seen a Windows, MacBook Pro equivalent at 1/3 the cost?

There is still a premium yes, but it’s never that rediculous.

 

[Wags]

In the past, most of the time it wasn't always worth waiting because the performance gains were so small. This time around though, IMO, it's an obvious WAIT. Why? 1. Horrible keyboard issues, 2. Two extra cores with a massive performance jump.

It's a no-brainer to wait this time unless you have a broken machine and need something ASAP.

Just wondering about 13. Most likely gets 4 cores but probably low power and frequency. How much bump ?

 

[Ener Ji]

Just wondering about 13. Most likely gets 4 cores but probably low power and frequency. How much bump ?

No one knows frequency yet. It's actually possible that the base frequency stays the same or even goes down slightly as a result of the additional cores. The leaked six-core 45W CPUs (suitable for the 15" MBP) have a base clock of ~2.6Ghz if I remember correctly. Turbo speed is going to be similar.

 

[ackmondual]

2-300% premium? Where have you seen a Windows, MacBook Pro equivalent to 1/3 the cost?

There is still a premium yes, but it’s never that rediculous.

A MR user posted he may leave OSX for Windows 10, citing he's wiling to pay an extra 20%, but not 2x to 3x the cost.

 

[haydn!]

A MR user posted he may leave OSX for Windows 10, citing he's wiling to pay an extra 20%, but not 2x to 3x the cost.

Yeah, but where are these notebooks that are 1/3 the cost of a MacBook Pro? I doubt they have even remotely comparable specs.

 

[ls1dreams]

Just wondering about 13. Most likely gets 4 cores but probably low power and frequency. How much bump ?

One concern for sure is that at the same lithography (14nm), a good igpu alongside it might run quite hot. The i5-8250u quad core already exists at 15w with weak graphics. It's a crusher and barely throttles at all from what I've read. Base is 1.6 and turbo is 3.4 - if I recall correctly it hardly ever throttled below 3.1.

It's possible that this first gen of quad cores + iris gpu has a bit of throttling until we get to 10nm.

 

[Falhófnir]

Yeah, but where are these notebooks that are 1/3 the cost of a MacBook Pro? I doubt they have even remotely comparable specs.

A similarly equipped Dell XPS can often be had for nearing half the cost, so the bottom end of the range is certainly accurate...

 

[Poki]

A similarly equipped Dell XPS can often be had for nearing half the cost, so the bottom end of the range is certainly accurate...

That's true. You also can get a Razor Blade Stealth with similar specs to the 13" MBP for halve the price.

The Surface Book, on the other hand, is pretty much exactly the same price as the MBP. So it's not like there's nothing even remotely as expensive out there.

 

[Euro_Guy]

A similarly equipped Dell XPS can often be had for nearing half the cost, so the bottom end of the range is certainly accurate...

Having a Dell XPS myself, and liking it. But the XPS you can buy at half the price of a MBP is not with the hi-res screen, so not quite the same spec as the comparable MBP.

20-40% premium for MBP over XPS is more realistic - which is imo also significant, given the facts that (a) both are premium computers and (b) that the XPS has higher specs on a number of points. Higher-res screen, better graphics card, 100% Adobe RGB, which for me are important.

Obviously, it often boils down to which OS one prefers. For me, OSX and Win 10 are comparable. I use both and like both, and I see no difference regaring stability and giving me the ability to get my work done. Excel does feel a little better in Win than in OSX...but this is nitpicking. I would be perfectly happy with any of them if I had to choose only one.

 

[Poki]

20-40% premium for MBP over XPS is more realistic - which is imo also significant, given the facts that (a) both are premium computers and (b) that the XPS has higher specs on a number of points. Higher-res screen, better graphics card, 100% Adobe RGB, which for me are important.

However we should not forget the advantages the MBP has over the XPS, like no coil whine, faster SSD speeds, a far better trackpad, 4x Thunderbolt 3, better build quality, the Touch Bar, Touch ID, or even the better real world WiFi speeds.

 

[TheralSadurns]

That's true. You also can get a Razor Blade Stealth with similar specs to the 13" MBP for halve the price.

The Surface Book, on the other hand, is pretty much exactly the same price as the MBP. So it's not like there's nothing even remotely as expensive out there.

Oh and... I wish Apple made something like the Razer Blade Pro.
Display: 17,3 Inch, 4K, 3840 x 2160 IGZO, format 16:9, NVIDIA® G-SYNC™, 100 % Adobe RGB
GPU: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 (8GB GDDR5X VRAM)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-7820HK
RAM: 32 GB Dual-Channel (DDR4, 2667 MHz)
SSD: 2 TB SSD RAID 0 (2x 1 TB PCIe M.2)
Ports: 3x USB 3, HDMI 2.0, Ethernet, Thunderbolt 3, SDXC Card Slot, Kensiongton Lock

Everything at 3.49 kg which is fine for a workstation level machine!


Funny thing is... THIS machine... with a 1TB SSD costs €5000 over here. And I'm like 'woaaaah f*ck no!'. If APPLE made this device... and it shipped with macOS rather than crappy Windows 10... and had Apple's trackpad... I'd GLADLY pay that much!


Oh and just for comparisons sake, dimensions compared to the 17" MBP of old (which is still my daily driver).

Weight: 2.99kg - 3.49kg
Height: 2.50cm - 2.25cm
Width: 39.3cm - 42.4cm
Depth: 26.7cm - 28.1cm

So... a bit heavier... slightly bigger footprint... but not as thick. Seems absolutely fine with me. Plus. ZERO issues carrying it around. And I'm basically the opposite of a body builder

 

[AlekT]

The XPS machines seem like much better value. Unfortunately for me, I vastly prefer macOS over Windows 10 and use a number of macOS-only apps like Sketch. Also I personally don't like the carbon fibre aesthetic.

The fact that half of Apple's MacBook 'Pro' line has dual-core processors in 2018 makes me wonder if Apple sees these things as legacy products and just wants to keep them ticking over until the iPad Pro is powerful enough to take over most of the portable professional market.

 

[Falhófnir]

That's true. You also can get a Razor Blade Stealth with similar specs to the 13" MBP for halve the price.

The Surface Book, on the other hand, is pretty much exactly the same price as the MBP. So it's not like there's nothing even remotely as expensive out there.

That is also true, but Microsoft deliberately leave breathing room for their OEMs below their pricing structure, indeed I think they deliberately target their prices to mirror Apple's while providing (arguably) more for the money. Of course with Apple you also get the walk-in support which isn't available from Microsoft (not in the UK anyway) though I find John Lewis offer a good alternative with their 2-3 year guarantee included, at least it's some peace of mind that they will swap the unit out or replace it with the nearest available equivalent (if the product has been discontinued by year 2-3) if something goes wrong.

Having a Dell XPS myself, and liking it. But the XPS you can buy at half the price of a MBP is not with the hi-res screen, so not quite the same spec as the comparable MBP.

20-40% premium for MBP over XPS is more realistic - which is imo also significant, given the facts that (a) both are premium computers and (b) that the XPS has higher specs on a number of points. Higher-res screen, better graphics card, 100% Adobe RGB, which for me are important.

Obviously, it often boils down to which OS one prefers. For me, OSX and Win 10 are comparable. I use both and like both, and I see no difference regaring stability and giving me the ability to get my work done. Excel does feel a little better in Win than in OSX...but this is nitpicking. I would be perfectly happy with any of them if I had to choose only one.

I think you're probably right going by MSRP, though the XPS can often be had for a decent chunk off while the MBP usually has discounts limited (I have not seen one with more than £200 off, and that has been more recently and I assume has something to do with the extra leeway in the exchange rate; either big retailers Like John Lewis are pressing Apple for better wholesale, or the difference allows them to swallow more of the cost while still making a comparable profit). Both machines definitely have their set of advantages, I just question on that basis whether there's really that much extra value in a MBP taking all things into consideration. I like MacOS and especially the sleek hardware Apple offers, but recent pricing really has me wondering, especially with the seeming reliability fault in the keyboard (as much as I do like the tiny form factor).

 

[Euro_Guy]

However we should not forget the advantages the MBP has over the XPS, like no coil whine, faster SSD speeds, a far better trackpad, 4x Thunderbolt 3, better build quality, the Touch Bar, Touch ID, or even the better real world WiFi speeds.

Let's not go into this discussion. I have no coil whine, the trackpad is in my opinion very nice (I prefer the smaller size than the MPB trackpad), I don't need the touch bar at all (just as I don't use the touch screen of the XPS). On the other hand, some users have had problems with the MBP keyboard, but definitely not all; probably a one-digit phenomenon, although a serious one.

My primary grief with the XPS is the webcam situated in the lower part of the screen. I guess it's the price for having so thin bezels; still it's definitely not ideal when video-conferencing.

But as I started saying: These topics for and against XPS and MBP have been covered many, many times before on this forum. I don't think it is necessary repeating it all. I was simply commenting on the fact that an XPS is cheaper, but not half the price, of a comparable MBP.

 

[Poki]

Let's not go into this discussion. I have no coil whine, the trackpad is in my opinion very nice (I prefer the smaller size than the MPB trackpad), I don't need the touch bar at all (just as I don't use the touch screen of the XPS). On the other hand, some users have had problems with the MBP keyboard, but definitely not all; probably a one-digit phenomenon, although a serious one.

My primary grief with the XPS is the webcam situated in the lower part of the screen. I guess it's the price for having so thin bezels; still it's definitely not ideal when video-conferencing.

But as I started saying: These topics for and against XPS and MBP have been covered many, many times before on this forum. I don't think it is necessary repeating it all. I was simply commenting on the fact that an XPS is cheaper, but not half the price, of a comparable MBP.

I agree that we shouldn‘t go to deep into this rabbid hole, but we have to acknowledge that there are other things which contribute to the price difference besides raw specs.

Also, the XPS 15 with the standard display is actually less than half the price of a similarly specced 15“ MBP, and just slightly more than half with the 4k screen.

The Razor Blade Stealth is like 60% of the price of a comparable 13“ MBP. So while Apple is never 300% as expensive, they can get quite close to double the price depending on the region and the specific models.

 

[SweWriter]

I've just looked on the Swedish Apple site, they are listed under buy 15" for 21 995,00 kr - you have to scroll down a bit from the two touch bar models but it is there

Somehow missed that. Thanks! Did you just go by knowledge of speed etc, or did you spot the model nr and choose from their "identify your pro" list?

 

[Ener Ji]

My primary grief with the XPS is the webcam situated in the lower part of the screen. I guess it's the price for having so thin bezels; still it's definitely not ideal when video-conferencing.

This is the #1 thing that concerns me when people fantasize about a "no-bezel" MBP. I need that webcam situated nice and high and not angled so that it looks up my nostrils.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

Hmm...but what if they make a "no-bezel" version that has a notch like the iPhone X?

 

[Ener Ji]

Hmm...but what if they make a "no-bezel" version that has a notch like the iPhone X?

I realize you're probably joking, but as long as the macOS menubar is redesigned to accommodate the notch, I probably wouldn't mind. Full screen applications (particularly games) and dual booting to Windows could be an issue, however.

Edit: A notch would be easier to accommodate when/if Apple puts OLED screens on Macs. The top row of pixels (in line with the notch) could simply be turned "off" when booted to Windows and in full-screen apps which haven't been designed to take advantage of the notch. With an OLED screen the turned off pixels would appear perfectly black and unobtrusive.

 

[ls1dreams]

A similarly equipped Dell XPS can often be had for nearing half the cost, so the bottom end of the range is certainly accurate...

Half? I don't think so. I think we're usually looking at something like $1800 vs. $1200 or so. (30-50% price increase depending on the model). I'd have to pull up exact numbers.

You have to also make sure to compare apples to apples - not all Dell machines have NVME SSD's, 802.11ax 3x3, or good graphics cards. (For example, the current gen Dell's using the i5-8250u have weak graphics)
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The XPS machines seem like much better value. Unfortunately for me, I vastly prefer macOS over Windows 10 and use a number of macOS-only apps like Sketch. Also I personally don't like the carbon fibre aesthetic.

The fact that half of Apple's MacBook 'Pro' line has dual-core processors in 2018 makes me wonder if Apple sees these things as legacy products and just wants to keep them ticking over until the iPad Pro is powerful enough to take over most of the portable professional market.

This is simply because intel hasn't released a mobile quad core chip with iris graphics yet. Apple did the same thing last time around.

 

[AlekT]

This is simply because intel hasn't released a mobile quad core chip with iris graphics yet. Apple did the same thing last time around.

Sure, but it's still a dual-core processor in a 'Pro' machine. It's semantics, but I don't think they're powerful enough for the Pro line and Pro prices. Anyway, I'm sure Apple know their market and it makes financial sense, it's just disappointing.

 

[cyberone]

CPU and all that stuff aside, more importantly: how easy will it be to change battery? MBP '17 has them glued in. Batteries need to be changed every 2-3 years, so if hey make it difficult with any new Mac this doesn't really enhance my buying willingness.

 

[Ener Ji]

CPU and all that stuff aside, more importantly: how easy will it be to change battery? MBP '17 has them glued in. Batteries need to be changed every 2-3 years, so if hey make it difficult with any new Mac this doesn't really enhance my buying willingness.

They've been gluing batteries since the 2012 rMBP was released. The whole industry has moved in that direction for ultra compact devices. I don't see them ditching the glue any time soon, unfortunately.

 

[ls1dreams]

CPU and all that stuff aside, more importantly: how easy will it be to change battery? MBP '17 has them glued in. Batteries need to be changed every 2-3 years, so if hey make it difficult with any new Mac this doesn't really enhance my buying willingness.

I have a 2011 MBP that is only still running well because I was able to upgrade the ram, add an SSD, replace the battery, and replace the charger. It's virtually the ship of theseus at this point. Almost none of that would be possible with a new model, but of course you could buy on the higher end, and the SSD won't make as much of a difference.

 

[cyberone]

They've been gluing batteries since the 2012 rMBP was released. The whole industry has moved in that direction for ultra compact devices. I don't see them ditching the glue any time soon, unfortunately.

What does glueing have to do with ultra compact? Why would glue be necessary in the first place.