Walgreens, CVS Expected to Partner With Apple for Mobile Payments Service

[BarryL]

This will probably dust off COIN.

 

[weave]

COIN is dead before it ever launched, thanks to EMV

 

[V.K.]

Let's take Apple out of the mix... no iPhone 6... no proprietary Apple retail hardware... nothing.

So when will this NFC "standard" take off? Where is it?

Someone earlier mentioned that they paid with Google Wallet at Walgreens... but even Walgreens employees don't know about it.

I don't think most people know about it.

So what's going on with it?

Don't you think it will be weird if NFC was available for years and no retailer wanted it... but they jump on Apple's implementation on day-one?

That's kinda how I envision all this happening.

NFC is everywhere outside US. This has been mentioned often in this thread and elsewhere. in Canada, UK, Australia, Japan, Korea, many countries in Europe pretty much all credit cards are chip-and-pin cards and many of them have NFC built-in and LOTS of stores accept them. It's just not called NFC so a regular person would not necessarily know the name. People (both cashiers and customers) usually just say "tap" ( you tap the card on the terminal and pay). They are now VERY common and their adoption is rapidly accelerating.
All supermarket chains, all drug store chains, all fast food and coffee shop chains, hardware store chains have tap-to-pay terminals. Many small stores now have them too and they are the last to adopt new technology.

I haven't seen people use their phones for payment but that might be because google wallet is only available in US.

No retailer will jump on Apple's implementation if it's not compatible with regular NFC. Who in their right mind would so restrict themselves?

As I said, IMO, the best course for Apple would be to come up with a system where basic functionality is available on any standard NFC terminal but some extra functionality requires Apple hardware.

 

[Arndroid]

Let's take Apple out of the mix... no iPhone 6... no proprietary Apple retail hardware... nothing.

So when will this NFC "standard" take off? Where is it?

Someone earlier mentioned that they paid with Google Wallet at Walgreens... but even Walgreens employees don't know about it.

I don't think most people know about it.

So what's going on with it?

Don't you think it will be weird if NFC was available for years and no retailer wanted it... but they jump on Apple's implementation on day-one?

That's kinda how I envision all this happening.

From what it sounds like apple will be using Touch ID, gps and NFC as additional tools in fraud protection. Because of this they have managed to negotiate significantly lower credit card processor fees. The charge for using a credit card in person is significantly less to the retailer than not having the card present.

Traditional NFC transactions are charged at the much higher rate of the card not being present. It is strongly believed in apple's NFC implementation they have negotiated fees that will make using apple's NFC the same rate , at least, as the rate retailers pay for physically present card transactions.

In the scheme of things this is absolutely massive. Without it you are asking retailers to give away 1+% of their revenue just to accept NFC. Apple's implementation provides a significantly higher level of security and protection and the merchants pay the same processing percentage.

This will actually make NFC take off. But other device manufacturers are going to have to provide the same level of security and fraud prevention or else they have no chance of the discounted rates and run the risk of not having their devices accepted for NFC payment. Retailers are not going to be keen on android customers costing them 1-2% of their revenue

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Possibly so. So far, none of my credit cards has a chip, but someone on here said theirs did, and that the Walmart cashier knew to treat it differently (it wouldn't swipe correctly). I think the new portable card readers will be coming to many restaurants sooner rather than later. These card readers will take a swiped card as well as a chip and pin card (that's how they worked when I worked* in England for a while a few years ago).

Having them bring the card reader to the table is a benefit even for those who prefer to use their card, since the card is never out of sight.

* I didn't actually work there. I didn't have a work visa, so I just "attended meetings" there three weeks a month for a year and a half. If you told the immigration officer you were there to work, they took away your passport and only gave it back again when you boarded a plane for home the next day.

While the card is never out of sight it seems like attaching a card skimmer to a portable credit card swipe device would be trivial and since it would be under the control of a particular employee and out of site of most, very low risk of being detected while being used.

Not saying I don't agree it is overall better, but portable readers is not really much of a savior from someone who wants to steal your credit card data.

 

[Arndroid]

There needs to be a common payment strategy like we have for visa/ mc etc, and debit payment systems. This fragmented agreements for a few retailers isn't going to work.

Ultimately it willbe up to credit card companies and banks ( debit cards ) to integrate NFC payments into their payment systems - releasing apps for smartphones. Not Apple doing this on its own, and Google, another method.

Yeah seems you will be very wrong. Apple has apparently built this project with the major card companies (visa,mc,Amex) and also with the banks.

Check it out on Tuesday

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NFC is everywhere outside US. This has been mentioned often in this thread and elsewhere. in Canada, UK, Australia, Japan, Korea, many countries in Europe

No retailer will jump on Apple's implementation if it's not compatible with regular NFC. Who in their right mind would so restrict themselves?

As I said, IMO, the best course for Apple would be to come up with a system where basic functionality is available on any standard NFC terminal but some extra functionality requires Apple hardware.

Yeah clearly this is aimed at the us market right now and retailers will be dying to get on board as it saves them money.

 

[winston1236]

Hopefully they partner with major groceries stores next.

Or any store. Seriously do people actually go to walgreens more than once a year?

 

[dannyyankou]

Deleted

 

[ipedro]

Canada, like Europe, is more geared up for this than the US. Over here in the UK, every major retailer and nearly all the little ones that accept credit cards now accept contactless payment. And pretty much every credit card has a contactless chip built in, too. I understand the situation is similar in Canada.

Whatever Apple is creating, it'll have to be out-of-the-box compatible with all that contactless payment hardware already in place, or it's dead on arrival.

As such, I can't see the issue in launching what is essentially a hardware feature across the world for anyone in a country with the infrastructure to use it.

This is true. Over the last year, more and more retailers have been accepting tap payments. I sure hope Apple doesn't attempt a proprietary system.

 

[Playgear]

So why, instead of doing another elaborate system their own way, did Apple not just do something similar to COIN where you simply add your Visa/MasterCard/AMEX/whatever to your phone, verify it and now all of a sudden your phone appears to be your credit/debit card. Why do we need another system on top of that?

I know that nothing is certain for 2 days, so this may still happen.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

There are dozens if not hundreds of major retailers and foodservice operators that are part of the Apple payments initiative. The fact that Apple negotiated
"card present" rates for payments made with the iPhone is huge....we are talking millions of discounts for these transactions that are made at participating retail/restaurant establishments. I believe Apple's intent is to use this as a lure to get more operators out there to sign on with their program, thereby all but crushing Google wallet, Paypal and other competitors.

If you pay attention at all to all the local retailers around you who just installed NFC-capable readers (Verifone, Igenico or other similar devices), I guarantee you this isn't just ahead of the upcoming EMV mandate. Its directly sequenced to coincide with Apples payment initiative, rolling out this November...just in time for the holidays. The 2015 EMV mandate was an expense for most retail operators. Those same card reader upgrades just turned into an INVESTMENT opportunity thanks to Apple and the huge marketing they are going to be doing around this initiative (eg "iPhone Payments Accepted Here" will be freaking everywhere)

This is going to be a huge differentiator for the iPhone. Google may have had first mover advantage, but as typical, they don't have the full ecosystem to really make it rock the industry. Apple...simply put....does. You think all those cards tied to iTunes and iTunes App Store were just to buy music and fart apps?

 

[Appleconnect]

iWach

hopefully this will be avai on iwatch..

 

[Keane16]

Already making payments with Google wallet at my local CVS, Rite Aid, Wegman's, etc. Apple late to the party again

Could I ask how this works. In terms of steps to pay?

A good payment platform is one of the things I'm most looking forward to with the new iPhone. I know things have existed for years on other platforms, but as far as I could tell they weren't brilliant in their implementation.

For Apple's version. I'd want something thing like:

1. Take goods to cashier
2. Cashier asks for payment
3. Bottom left of iPhone screen automatically shows the default payment option with iOS 8's location aware app shortcuts, slide up to use store card/launch payment process
4. Tap the phone on the reader to make payment
5. Authorise using TouchID
6. Receipts are store somewhere electronically, and you can ask for a paper version.

Whatever they release I would like it to be:

1. Fast - I don't want to be unlocking the phone to manually find payment apps
2. Secure - 4 digit pins and signatures should be replaced by TouchID

I'd be interested to know how the process works on Android currently, any details would be appreciated - I know in the past it was clunky and not quicker than using a regular card - but that may have changed recently.

Also don't worry about being late to the party - MP3 players, smartphones, tablets all existed before Apple started to play. Then they tipped things on their head and all consumers benefited in the long run.

 

[Keane16]

NFC is everywhere outside US. This has been mentioned often in this thread and elsewhere. in Canada, UK, Australia, Japan, Korea, many countries in Europe pretty much all credit cards are chip-and-pin cards and many of them have NFC built-in and LOTS of stores accept them. It's just not called NFC so a regular person would not necessarily know the name. People (both cashiers and customers) usually just say "tap" ( you tap the card on the terminal and pay). They are now VERY common and their adoption is rapidly accelerating.
All supermarket chains, all drug store chains, all fast food and coffee shop chains, hardware store chains have tap-to-pay terminals. Many small stores now have them too and they are the last to adopt new technology.

I haven't seen people use their phones for payment but that might be because google wallet is only available in US.

No retailer will jump on Apple's implementation if it's not compatible with regular NFC. Who in their right mind would so restrict themselves?

As I said, IMO, the best course for Apple would be to come up with a system where basic functionality is available on any standard NFC terminal but some extra functionality requires Apple hardware.

I agree that a standard solution would be best, and that's what I imagine it will be. With the store specific tie ins being an added bonus, may be incorporating store cards into the process seamlessly.

But on your other point about NFC being everywhere outside the US - that's a negative in the UK. Tap to pay is here, but definitely not widespread. If I was to guess I'd say it's single digit percentage in terms of adoption. For every retailer that I know offering tap to pay - I can name 10+ that do not.

I also visit Europe quite a bit. My last trip was to Rome a few months ago. I mostly used my card - most places there did not appear to offer tap to pay. And surprisingly quite a few used a signature for authorisation (this is pretty much a last resort option in the UK). Other places I've been to in Europe over the last few years have been similar. Sweden, Spain, Denmark etc. No doubt tap to pay exists in these places, but adoption is still not widespread from my experience.

Hopefully with Apple getting on board adoption rises quickly and it becomes the normal way to pay for things sooner rather than later.

 

[bmt134]

Could I ask how this works. In terms of steps to pay?

A good payment platform is one of the things I'm most looking forward to with the new iPhone. I know things have existed for years on other platforms, but as far as I could tell they weren't brilliant in their implementation.

For Apple's version. I'd want something thing like:

1. Take goods to cashier
2. Cashier asks for payment
3. Bottom left of iPhone screen automatically shows the default payment option with iOS 8's location aware app shortcuts, slide up to use store card/launch payment process
4. Tap the phone on the reader to make payment
5. Authorise using TouchID
6. Receipts are store somewhere electronically, and you can ask for a paper version.

Whatever they release I would like it to be:

1. Fast - I don't want to be unlocking the phone to manually find payment apps
2. Secure - 4 digit pins and signatures should be replaced by TouchID

I'd be interested to know how the process works on Android currently, any details would be appreciated - I know in the past it was clunky and not quicker than using a regular card - but that may have changed recently.

Also don't worry about being late to the party - MP3 players, smartphones, tablets all existed before Apple started to play. Then they tipped things on their head and all consumers benefited in the long run.

Tap the reader, enter pin, and that's it.

 

[kdarling]

... The fact that Apple negotiated "card present" rates for payments made with the iPhone is huge....we are talking millions of discounts for these transactions that are made at participating retail/restaurant establishments.

NFC payments were already classed as "card present".

(Not your fault. There were some poorly researched articles floating around which said otherwise, but they're incorrect.)



Google FAQ for merchants. ISIS Merchant FAQ

 

[Keane16]

Tap the reader, enter pin, and that's it.

Thanks. Nice and easy.

For added security (and a little speed + ease of use) hopefully Apple replaces "enter PIN" with authenticate via TouchID.

 

[engg2000]

You speak as though you know this to be the case......how do you know?

If it doesn't, then what would prevent a criminal from stealing a credit card, typing the digits into their phone, then using it to run around town making NFC payments and appearing to be secure??

You still need your pin number to sync your credit card into the phone. Also, if someone has a credit card, why bother putting it in the phone. Just use the card silly.

 

[engg2000]

I think at least from the iWatch side of payments it will not require finger scan as it will only require that once upon putting the watch on and reset its authentication when removed. In other words put your watch on in the morning, iphone notification and watch both indicate for a finger scan, push the home button on the phone and you are then authenticated to make purchases until the watch is removed at night. This 'band and knowledge of being attached to you intimately as a watch is will allow the watch interface to be very very easy and convenient, just touch it to the vendors nfc console give the face a double tap to accept (maybe a swipe left, with right being deny) and you are done, receipt in passbook on all your devices, points earned. no signatures. no one has access to your credit card number.

No NFC without iPhone