Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Walmart and Best Buy Opt Out of 'Apple Pay' as Apple Leverages Required Point-of-Sale Upgrades

MauriceMoss said:
I was under the impression that :apple: Pay is a service offered to the customer.

It uses existing NFC payment terminals at retailers. If they already have NFC readers, they shouldn't need to do anything. I don't think there is anything proprietary about it. (Merchant hardware wise.)

There is current legislation that requires merchants to upgrade equipment to either Chip and Pin or NFC this coming year. So they're going to have to get one or the other anyway. Right?
Click to expand...

Ah, yes. You are right. I thought MCX's solution was a "flavor" of NFC, and that the various "NFC" systems were proprietary hardware dependent. But I see that NFC is open and it's the consumer-side client that is proprietary.
 
SonicSoundVW said:
Its simple, they are looking at cost "woah, that much to support Pay over normal NFC, i don't care how secure it is, were going with normal NFC due to the cost"
Click to expand...

NFC and Pay are indistinguishable, from the merchant's point of view.

The PoS terminal is the same, and the merchant fee is the same.
 
This is actually fairly big news... I know around here, some blind Apple fanbois will discount anything to justify their love for the dear leader, but, reality is, WalMart is a HUGE retailer. Not having their support is proof that Apple is losing it's market position.

Remember, WalMart makes money by selling products, it's ALWAYS in their best interest to enable as many payment options as possible. The more options provided, the more customers you will attract.

Their rejection of this product is a very very big deal.
 
I have little doubt that in three years, we will be reading an article titled, "Walmart to implement Applepay at its stores".

Here in Canada, we already use NFC for payment. I look forward to quick adoption of Applepay.
 
isoft7 said:
This is actually fairly big news... I know around here, some blind Apple fanbois will discount anything to justify their love for the dear leader, but, reality is, WalMart is a HUGE retailer. Not having their support is proof that Apple is losing it's market position.

Remember, WalMart makes money by selling products, it's ALWAYS in their best interest to enable as many payment options as possible. The more options provided, the more customers you will attract.

Their rejection of this product is a very very big deal.
Click to expand...

I have a hunch they will change their stance on this
 
ptb42 said:
The BarclayCard is chip and signature first, then chip and PIN second -- unless they have changed it.

The EMV chip has a field in it to specify what authentication is required. It can specify a primary method, then a backup method if the primary isn't possible.

In the US, almost every bank is setting chip-and-signature as first priority. Have you actually used it in the US, and had to enter a PIN at an attended point-of-sale terminal?
Click to expand...

Oh Sorry....you're correct. I thought you were just saying you hadn't seen Chip cards yet. It does seem all US cards are Chip & Signature. My USBank Corporate card is as well. When I used it in South Africa the clerks couldn't understand why I always had to sign for transactions....they were expecting the PIN to be used as it is there.
 
nsayer said:
No... portable NFC enabled pay terminals for restaurants FTW. Those little leatherette folding pamphlet things could have a LiPoly battery, an NFC reader, a small LCD display and a WiFi radio in them instead of little flaps to tuck pieces of paper and a pen.
Click to expand...

TabbedOut. So much more elegant... and I can buy a round even if I'm not in the bar (e.g. sponsoring a round, etc.).
 
Three things. First, the MCX is clearly driven by the desire of the retailers to avoid the processing fees from credit cards. It only works with store cards or your checking/savings account.

Second, what are the loss protections with this? With credit cards it is $0 and you are not out the money during the time the dispute is in process. With debit cards it is a bit more iffy. With MCX??

Third, how secure with this platform be. Certainly not a great time for retailers (cough Home Depot, Target, Neiman cough) to be trying to roll out a new payment system with unclear consumer liability standards.
 
Amazon will adopt at some point. They're far more flexible, and far less hostile than their peer companies (both in hardware and merchant categories).

Wal-Mart is a bit of a stinger when you live in a po-dunk ish region (like me). But regional chains like Schnucks will hopefully climb aboard soon (especially) given their recent CC leak.

The big unknown, for me, is how more restaurants can get involved. If there was a secure way to make another Apple device a receiver, I could see a lot of local pizza, burger, sandwhich joints using an iPad at the counter vs. adopting a more expensive specialized system.
 
How long to do you think it will be before the Gov steps in and start to investigate Apple ? I would say about 2 years from now. Apple is getting too big. Sorry but its about happen soon.
 
isoft7 said:
This is actually fairly big news... I know around here, some blind Apple fanbois will discount anything to justify their love for the dear leader, but, reality is, WalMart is a HUGE retailer. Not having their support is proof that Apple is losing it's market position.

Remember, WalMart makes money by selling products, it's ALWAYS in their best interest to enable as many payment options as possible. The more options provided, the more customers you will attract.

Their rejection of this product is a very very big deal.
Click to expand...

So where is their NFC support for Google Wallet, or Paypal? The issue isn't entirely centered around Apple in my opinion.
 
taylord22 said:
The big unknown, for me, is how more restaurants can get involved. If there was a secure way to make another Apple device a receiver, I could see a lot of local pizza, burger, sandwich joints using an iPad at the counter vs. adopting a more expensive specialized system.
Click to expand...

It'll be like Europe - they'll carry portable cc machines that support EMV, NFC, etc. No biggie.
 
ericinboston said:
So many people here are clueless...blaming these retailers for not signing up for Apple Pay.
Click to expand...

Merchant's don't "sign up for Apple Pay".

ericinboston said:
Do you really think the largest retailers in the USA are going to sign-up for a new system that requires a new POS (that the retailer must pay for) and a COMPLETELY new way of consumers and employees USING said system?!
Click to expand...

It's not a "new" system. It's the NFC functionality in existing PoS terminals, which is already deployed by many retailers.

ericinboston said:
So tell me again why the retailers (especially late in any given year) are going to sign up for Apple Pay?
Click to expand...

Retailers have to deploy an EMV chip reader PoS by 10/2015, or they will have to assume liability for any fraud. Unless they have already specified and tested a custom system, all they have to do is deploy one of the many merchant terminals that also have NFC support.
 
I think what needs to be considered here is that this "Merchant Customer Exchange" is one of those organizations that Tim Cook discussed at the Keynote, when he referenced the fact that e-wallet initiatives haven't worked before because the implementers come at if from a perspective of self-interest, instead of user experience.

These retailers could give two flips about how secure, private and easy this is for the user. They only want to control the information. If you go to the link below it will be obvious that their intention is to keep as much of the pie for themselves as possible, with little or no regard for the user. In fact, one of the things they like about the software/system is that it can be integrated into the merchants' own mobile apps. So they get to track your transactions, and they have visibility into personal information about the user that they'd never get with :apple:Pay.

http://www.paymentssource.com/galle...-merchant-mobile-wallet-puzzle-3016982-1.html

This is a battle in which we need to insert ourselves right now. If you are in favor of a safe, secure, private and easy way of processing payments, get a list of the merchants who are members of this alliance, and find out if they are foregoing :apple:Pay. If so, make it clear to them that you will shop elsewhere. Very vocally.

Here's another good article from Macworld that lays out pretty nicely the benefits of :apple:Pay, and how it compares to Google Wallet.

http://www.macworld.com/article/260...mobile-payment-system-youll-actually-use.html
 
darkslide29 said:
What I wonder is how the transaction will show up on my credit card bill, for cash back category purposes? I've never used NFC before.

For example. My American Express card gives me 6% cash back at grocery stores. If I were to use my Amex Card via Apple Pay at a grocery store, will it show up as the grocery store on my bill so I get cash back? Or will it be a generic Apple Pay purchase that only gets the base 1% cash back.

It is possible Apple Pay will behave differently than other NFC systems, but likely not. So maybe someone here has experience with that?
Click to expand...

NFC changes nothing from the perspective of your card account. It is simply an alternative to swiping and requiring a signature. Your bill will still show the full transaction details.

You may be thinking of tokenized payment processing, which adds and extra layer between you and the merchant, but the full transaction details are still shared with the credit company.


tigres said:
Do your Walmarts have NFC? If so, doesn't that mean you can use :apple:pay according to posters herein?
Click to expand...

No, Walmart is one of the rapidly diminishing few holdouts.
 
darkslide29 said:
What I wonder is how the transaction will show up on my credit card bill, for cash back category purposes? I've never used NFC before.

For example. My American Express card gives me 6% cash back at grocery stores. If I were to use my Amex Card via Apple Pay at a grocery store, will it show up as the grocery store on my bill so I get cash back? Or will it be a generic Apple Pay purchase that only gets the base 1% cash back.

It is possible Apple Pay will behave differently than other NFC systems, but likely not. So maybe someone here has experience with that?
Click to expand...

sportsfan said:
I have not used NFC before, but I have the same AMEX as you.
NFC obscures the retail location type?
Click to expand...

I'm actually not sure of the answer because I have not used NFC either.

However, you know the Amex For You offers? Those special offers on the site, or by twitter (such as $25 off $250 at best buy). I have read the fine print on those and it says that in order to qualify, you should swipe your card, and NOT use other devices that load it virtually. Not in those words... but something like that.

This is what made me think that we need to find out for sure. We will find out soon enough, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Keep an eye on the fine print for special Amex offers, and whether it will be a potential issue.
 
BruiserB said:
When I used it in South Africa the clerks couldn't understand why I always had to sign for transactions....they were expecting the PIN to be used as it is there.
Click to expand...

I had a similar experience in Crete. Elsewhere in Europe, merchants used to dealing with US tourists knew what to expect. But, I made a trip to a "big box" retailer similar to WalMart, and they were worried because it didn't ask for a PIN. I had to show my passport to confirm my ID.
 
dcorban said:
NFC changes nothing from the perspective of your card account. It is simply an alternative to swiping and requiring a signature. Your bill will still show the full transaction details.

You may be thinking of tokenized payment processing, which adds and extra layer between you and the merchant, but the full transaction details are still shared with the credit company.




No, Walmart is one of the rapidly diminishing few holdouts.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that makes sense.
 
isoft7 said:
This is actually fairly big news... I know around here, some blind Apple fanbois will discount anything to justify their love for the dear leader, but, reality is, WalMart is a HUGE retailer. Not having their support is proof that Apple is losing it's market position.

Remember, WalMart makes money by selling products, it's ALWAYS in their best interest to enable as many payment options as possible. The more options provided, the more customers you will attract.

Their rejection of this product is a very very big deal.
Click to expand...

Nfc has been around for years, so if it's a big deal now it's been for years. The sky is not falling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back