Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

'Walmart Pay' Expands Nationwide as Apple Pay Holdout Continues [Updated]

atomic.flip said:
You do make some very good points, however their approach would be better served to add their payment system as one of several supported options. With hundreds of millions of iOS devices sold it's foolish to dismiss the platform directly and most easily supported by Apple.
Click to expand...
While I agree that it would be great for Walmart to implement NFC, looking at the numbers of iPhones sold misses important points in relation to Walmart specifically. Walmart probably cares about phone numbers in their customer base. If the percentage is higher in non-NFC customers, that's where they're going to concentrate. They probably also realize that, although they're vocal group, Apple Pay ready iPhone customers don't represent all of the iPhones in the wild. Same on the Android side. Most important to remember. This is about Walmart and their customers. They really don't care about Apple or Android per se. They care about their customers and getting as many of those customers as possible to use their app. When they integrate NFC, and they will, it will just be another option.
[doublepost=1467724499][/doublepost]
AcesHigh87 said:
If no time is saved either way I would rather not be the customer that sits on my phone the entire time while they are doing their job. Having done retail I know that it's a lot easier on the cashier if you at least engage in polite conversation. Maybe I'm just too friendly though.
Click to expand...
Why would you be on your phone the entire time?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ghost31
69Mustang said:
Why would you be on your phone the entire time?
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be the entire time, that was a pretty obvious exaggeration. It still would be some time though since I'm sure I can't navigate those required steps without looking down. As it stands I can double tap my home button and have apple pay ready to go in under 3 seconds and without looking at anything. That seems like much less time spent staring at my phone.

I'm not American though. I don't even say that as a shot at you, I say it as a simple difference. In Canada we have had NFC payment for several years now so the idea of having to do anything more tedious than simply tapping my card (or phone or whatever) seems a little odd.

I can admit, this system does seem to have some benefits. I like (although don't fully understand) that it can be done while things are still ringing in (I assume it just gets the total at the end, everything else is just prep?) and I like that it gives you a full receipt without having to deal with a printed version. I just don't think in general it's a great idea for stores to be creating their own systems when systems that are better already exist. Not only NFC from our phones but tap cards in general. Even pulling out my debit card and tapping it seems like less hassle than pulling my phone out and completing the steps to use Walmart Pay.
[doublepost=1467725265][/doublepost]
American Hero said:
I don't even let the annoyance bother me anymore. Mobile phone payments will never catch on in the U.S. Americans are too paranoid about everything related to cards. We can't even move to EMV or contactless credit cards without everyone throwing a $%&^ fit over it.

If a merchant has their chip reader active, I'm happy.

If not, I walk out wondering why they don't.
Click to expand...

That confused me so much when visiting the US last year. In general I sorta assume that you guys have more tech than we do since everything seems to launch in the US and then move elsewhere later. I was really surprised to find only 1 or 2 places that accepted even the chip from our credit card; none at all accepted tap.
 
AcesHigh87 said:
It wouldn't be the entire time, that was a pretty obvious exaggeration. It still would be some time though since I'm sure I can't navigate those required steps without looking down. As it stands I can double tap my home button and have apple pay ready to go in under 3 seconds and without looking at anything. That seems like much less time spent staring at my phone.

I'm not American though. I don't even say that as a shot at you, I say it as a simple difference. In Canada we have had NFC payment for several years now so the idea of having to do anything more tedious than simply tapping my card (or phone or whatever) seems a little odd.

I can admit, this system does seem to have some benefits. I like (although don't fully understand) that it can be done while things are still ringing in (I assume it just gets the total at the end, everything else is just prep?) and I like that it gives you a full receipt without having to deal with a printed version. I just don't think in general it's a great idea for stores to be creating their own systems when systems that are better already exist. Not only NFC from our phones but tap cards in general. Even pulling out my debit card and tapping it seems like less hassle than pulling my phone out and completing the steps to use Walmart Pay.
Click to expand...
It takes less time, yes. Relatively speaking, what's the appreciable difference between 3 seconds and 6... or 10 even? Although things are different in Canada, we have to deal with the reality of what the current state is in America. We've just been pulled kicking and screaming into chip and pin.:oops:

We're differ in our opinions about stores creating their own systems. I believe having choices is almost always a better option since what one person thinks is better isn't always what's best for another.
 
69Mustang said:
It takes less time, yes. Relatively speaking, what's the appreciable difference between 3 seconds and 6... or 10 even? Although things are different in Canada, we have to deal with the reality of what the current state is in America. We've just been pulled kicking and screaming into chip and pin.:oops:

We're differ in our opinions about stores creating their own systems. I believe having choices is almost always a better option since what one person thinks is better isn't always what's best for another.
Click to expand...

When you're awkwardly standing with a line of people behind you fumbling with your phone to get a payment system to work that 7 seconds saved feels pretty good. Plus I usually already have my phone at the "hold to reader" stage as I pull it out of my pocket.

And it's completely fair to have differing opinions on the matter. My view is less that stores should be locked into a system they may not like and more that they should offer people a choice. The idea of Walmart pay isn't the problem for me, it's that the store is dictating what its customers should use instead of simply offering all options and allowing people to use what they like the most.
 
AcesHigh87 said:
When you're awkwardly standing with a line of people behind you fumbling with your phone to get a payment system to work that 7 seconds saved feels pretty good.
Click to expand...
I literally lol'd reading this. This isn't a Mission Impossible bomb defusing act. It's checkout in a store. Your description bears no semblance of reality. Does being in a store suddenly make a process they complete hundreds of times a day suddenly awkward and fumbling for the customer? Hyperbole isn't applicable everywhere.
AcesHigh87 said:
Plus I usually already have my phone at the "hold to reader" stage as I pull it out of my pocket.
Click to expand...
So does this mean someone using Walmart Pay couldn't also have their phone out at the "hold to reader" stage? Couldn't they {giggles} have already awkwardly fumbled through 4 taps on their phone? This is trying to hard to make a point.

AcesHigh87 said:
And it's completely fair to have differing opinions on the matter.
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with differing opinions. My wife and I have them all the time. It's just that, according to her, mine are always wrong. In this instance, you and I can agree to disagree and I don't have to sleep on the couch. Win/Win
AcesHigh87 said:
My view is less that stores should be locked into a system they may not like and more that they should offer people a choice.
Click to expand...
Locked in? Cash, CC, checks, gift cards, and Walmart Pay. The absence of Apple Pay does not constitute locked in.
AcesHigh87 said:
The idea of Walmart pay isn't the problem for me, it's that the store is dictating what its customers should use instead of simply offering all options and allowing people to use what they like the most.
Click to expand...
I'm laughing again. Name one store on the planet <-- now that's some good hyperbole-- that doesn't dictate it's acceptable forms of payment. Every store doesn't take Amex/Visa/MC, every store doesn't take checks, every store doesn't take cash, and unfortunately for some, every store doesn't take Apple Pay. Unless their customers complain, I don't think Walmart is too concerned about Apple Pay.
 
Last edited:
AcesHigh87 said:
I'm not sure if it's different in the US but in Canada (from the cashier's perspective) it's 100% the same as any other card. If anything Wlmart Pay seems like it would need more training since the transaction appears to happen before they are done if I'm reading this right.

If I walk into a place that I know does NFC payments I just tell them its debit or credit. Whether I tap my physical card or my phone makes no difference to the person working. A lot are actually still surprised to see me pay with my phone which proves that it really is no different on their end.
[doublepost=1467724289][/doublepost]
If no time is saved either way I would rather not be the customer that sits on my phone the entire time while they are doing their job. Having done retail I know that it's a lot easier on the cashier if you at least engage in polite conversation. Maybe I'm just too friendly though.
Click to expand...
For the major stores it is no different whether you insert the physical chip, tap the card or tap your phone or watch. It's the small stores that hand you a terminal to tap are the ones you have to fight with, as they don't hand you the terminal until they see the card.

Or even worse, the places that expect you to hand them a card and they insert or swipe it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: American Hero
AcesHigh87 said:
It wouldn't be the entire time, that was a pretty obvious exaggeration. It still would be some time though since I'm sure I can't navigate those required steps without looking down. As it stands I can double tap my home button and have apple pay ready to go in under 3 seconds and without looking at anything. That seems like much less time spent staring at my phone.

I'm not American though. I don't even say that as a shot at you, I say it as a simple difference. In Canada we have had NFC payment for several years now so the idea of having to do anything more tedious than simply tapping my card (or phone or whatever) seems a little odd.

I can admit, this system does seem to have some benefits. I like (although don't fully understand) that it can be done while things are still ringing in (I assume it just gets the total at the end, everything else is just prep?) and I like that it gives you a full receipt without having to deal with a printed version. I just don't think in general it's a great idea for stores to be creating their own systems when systems that are better already exist. Not only NFC from our phones but tap cards in general. Even pulling out my debit card and tapping it seems like less hassle than pulling my phone out and completing the steps to use Walmart Pay.
[doublepost=1467725265][/doublepost]

That confused me so much when visiting the US last year. In general I sorta assume that you guys have more tech than we do since everything seems to launch in the US and then move elsewhere later. I was really surprised to find only 1 or 2 places that accepted even the chip from our credit card; none at all accepted tap.
Click to expand...
I insert the chip pretty much everywhere I go now. I tap at a majority of them. Things have definitely changed a ton since a few years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: American Hero
A lot of people complain about contactless in Australia too, my uncle lives there and buys those stupid rfid blocking sleeves which do nothing but inconvenience you.

I am no fan of Durbin either. Now nobody has debit card rewards anymore. Cap credit cards and those go bye bye too.

Remember they tried this in Europe. The $/£/€ 10 minimums never went away, the places still hesitate to take cards and the consumers still get royally screwed. Oh and prices never went down either. Instead rewards just all went away because the banks couldn't afford it anymore.

Don't listen to the merchants who complain about fees. Nothing will change, things will just be worse for the consumer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: American Hero
dontwalkhand said:
A lot of people complain about contactless in Australia too, my uncle lives there and buys those stupid rfid blocking sleeves which do nothing but inconvenience you.
Click to expand...

I can most certainly understand buying an RFID wallet just to be safe.

dontwalkhand said:
I am no fan of Durbin either. Now nobody has debit card rewards anymore. Cap credit cards and those go bye bye too.
Click to expand...

Very few do. The other problem is the effect on checking accounts. Checking account fee waiver requirements went up, and so did other fees to make up for the lack of revenue the banks received on debit transactions. Other problem? EMV programming difficulties--that's why when I go to Rite Aid, I have to insert for a credit card but swipe for a debit, the same goes for Walgreens and I'm sure many others.

Don't listen to the merchants who complain about fees. Nothing will change, things will just be worse for the consumer.
Click to expand...

Of course I don't. The merchant should be lucky they're getting our business.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
69Mustang said:
Tap, tap, tap, tap. That's what we're discussing here. Perspective. Both solutions are easy.
Click to expand...

It's actually:

Thumbprint, tap, tap, thumbprint again, point camera at screen.

Yes... Walmart Pay is "easy" in the grand scheme of things.

My point is... there are other solution that are easier. :D

Look... I know why Walmart did this. Walmart is going for the lowest common denominator here. They really didn't have a choice. Not everyone has Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, or another NFC mobile payment solution.

But it doesn't change the fact that QR Code payment solutions are clunky in their execution.

That was my point the entire time... and what was determined over a year ago in previous forum threads.
 
Last edited:
Chip and PIN would make American cards compatible with the rest of the real world. Additionally, (and I know we've discussed before) that lost card fraud would be reduced quite a bit with a PIN. I understand lost card fraud only takes around 5% or so of the fraud numbers, but it's such an easy way to reduce 5% of billions of dollars, which could benefit both the banks and the consumer.

Yes, the banks would have to take slightly less per credit card transaction, but that 5% savings every year would more than make up for it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
American Hero said:
Chip and PIN would make American cards compatible with the rest of the real world. Additionally, (and I know we've discussed before) that lost card fraud would be reduced quite a bit with a PIN. I understand lost card fraud only takes around 5% or so of the fraud numbers, but it's such an easy way to reduce 5% of billions of dollars, which could benefit both the banks and the consumer.

Yes, the banks would have to take slightly less per credit card transaction, but that 5% savings every year would more than make up for it.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. The Australian system is what we would end up getting here more than likely, which is Chip + Online PIN. This means while PIN would work fine where the card was issued (this case the US) it would be fallback to be a signature card elsewhere. For example use an AU card in EU and it becomes a chip and signature card.

Now the reason why EU cards ask for PIN wherever they go including the US, is because they use an older type called Offline PIN. The PIN is stored in the chip itself rather than the banks, which allows for it to be more hackable and still fraud prone. - though not as much as stripe skimming.
 
  • Like
Reactions: American Hero
AcesHigh87 said:
When you're awkwardly standing with a line of people behind you fumbling with your phone to get a payment system to work that 7 seconds saved feels pretty good. Plus I usually already have my phone at the "hold to reader" stage as I pull it out of my pocket.

And it's completely fair to have differing opinions on the matter. My view is less that stores should be locked into a system they may not like and more that they should offer people a choice. The idea of Walmart pay isn't the problem for me, it's that the store is dictating what its customers should use instead of simply offering all options and allowing people to use what they like the most.
Click to expand...
What's "awkward" about unlocking your phone and scanning a code? Wtf kinda infomercial level "this simple thing is too hard" nonsense is this? I'm heading to Walmart right now to give this a try and if it's anything like the video it's dead simple.

Now you can make an argument for security concerns or...something. Anything. But simplicity? That's just grasping at straws looking for reasons to not like it
 
Just tried it. Holy crap that was fun. And for all those complaining about it taking a billion and a half steps, it was faster than using my debit card by a few steps. Whenever I use my debit card, it's: press pay, the payment method, then slide my card, then enter my PIN number, select if I want cash back, select if this amount is ok and then enter.

With Walmart pay just now? You go up to self check (as I did anyway) it has this little logo on the screen that says "to use Walmart Pay, scan this now" and all you do is...open Walmart pay in the Walmart app, press your thumb print, scan it and everything else is taken care of. No other steps! I love that. No "is this amount ok". No "enter your PIN number." Nothing. Just use your thumbprint, scan the code and you're done. And a receipt pops up when you're done. Super convenient for if I ever need to return anything. I have the receipt in my phone already. I tend to lose receipts anyway

There's also the "savings catcher" feature where if they find a lower price at a nearby store, they'll credit you the difference. Pretty cool.

Considering it was faster for me than using my debit card with the added benefit of my receipt being in my phone and a savings program, I'd call it a win.

But I'm sure some of you will find your own reasons not to like it. So...have fun with that
 

Attachments

  • image.png
    image.png
    109.9 KB · Views: 106
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dontwalkhand
Ghost31 said:
Just tried it. Holy crap that was fun. And for all those complaining about it taking a billion and a half steps, it was faster than using my debit card by a few steps. Whenever I use my debit card, it's: press pay, the payment method, then slide my card, then enter my PIN number, select if I want cash back, select if this amount is ok and then enter.

With Walmart pay just now? You go up to self check (as I did anyway) it has this little logo on the screen that says "to use Walmart Pay, scan this now" and all you do is...open Walmart pay in the Walmart app, press your thumb print, scan it and everything else is taken care of. No other steps! I love that. No "is this amount ok". No "enter your PIN number." Nothing. Just use your thumbprint, scan the code and you're done. And a receipt pops up when you're done. Super convenient for if I ever need to return anything. I have the receipt in my phone already. I tend to lose receipts anyway

There's also the "savings catcher" feature where if they find a lower price at a nearby store, they'll credit you the difference. Pretty cool.

Considering it was faster for me than using my debit card with the added benefit of my receipt being in my phone and a savings program, I'd call it a win.

But I'm sure some of you will find your own reasons not to like it. So...have fun with that
Click to expand...
Exactly the haters just haven't used it or even want to try it.

It actually works good. Is it Apple Pay? No. It is however the next best thing and provides an option to use your phone to pay at Walmart. If they add Apple Pay in the app- I would be completely fine with that.

I used it at a regular cashier and it is cool too. No receipt prints. Just get an eReceipt and good to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ghost31
dontwalkhand said:
Not necessarily. The Australian system is what we would end up getting here more than likely, which is Chip + Online PIN. This means while PIN would work fine where the card was issued (this case the US) it would be fallback to be a signature card elsewhere. For example use an AU card in EU and it becomes a chip and signature card.

Now the reason why EU cards ask for PIN wherever they go including the US, is because they use an older type called Offline PIN. The PIN is stored in the chip itself rather than the banks, which allows for it to be more hackable and still fraud prone. - though not as much as stripe skimming.
Click to expand...

Good post. I'm not sure why the EU doesn't move to online PIN.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back