inkswamp said:
HE HE. I forgot! Fore real though I don't see how selling Shuffles at Walmart would hurt Apple. They sell them at Target! Now Kmart would another story!
JK!
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WalMart To Sell iPod Shuffle?
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HE HE. I forgot! Fore real though I don't see how selling Shuffles at Walmart would hurt Apple. They sell them at Target! Now Kmart would another story!
JK!
Great for Apple... they must be confident they can make a lot!
But I have to say, Wal-Mart deserves a boycott if anyone ever did, for many, many reasons...
PBS streaming video documentary:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/
(See also http://www.walmartwatch.com/ )
PS, Re 7-11... The iPod Shuffle IS going to be sold in 7-11s! (In Singapore.)
But I have to say, Wal-Mart deserves a boycott if anyone ever did, for many, many reasons...
PBS streaming video documentary:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/
(See also http://www.walmartwatch.com/ )
PS, Re 7-11... The iPod Shuffle IS going to be sold in 7-11s! (In Singapore.)
xsnightclub said:
Well, maybe some places like Green Bay mark their calendars and wait in excitement for a new Walmart like it's a new church. I only know what it has done to my local economy. People save 2¢ so they go to Walmart instead of the local ma and pa stores. Not only that but the Super Walmarts have grocery stores that aren't unionized. As a result, businesses are closing up rapidly, leaving empty lots scattered all throughout the city. But I guess you can just say "that's business." Which it is, unfortunately.
Walmart is cheap. Cheap prices, cheap quality. Definitely no place for an Apple product in my opinion, because it cheapens the brand name.
I think it's a bad move. I will probably always own an iPod, but when that little red head kid (wearing Wranglers and a t-shirt with a wolf on it) has a pair of white earbuds listening to his Toby Keith, then people are going to start looking for the next "cool" thing.
Maybe so, maybe not.
Fishes,
narco.
Walmart is for Walmart
Anyone remember VALSICK PICKELS? Walmort put them out of business.
I would stay away from Walmort...it is death to all but chinese mfg.
products. you get the volumn and no profit.
Santaduck said:
Anyone remember VALSICK PICKELS? Walmort put them out of business.
I would stay away from Walmort...it is death to all but chinese mfg.
products. you get the volumn and no profit.
Ugh, first HP, then Pepsi and McDonald's, now Wal-Mart? I hate to apply the phrase "selling out" to Apple but...yeesh. Then again, I suppose it will help them "sell out" in more ways than one. Oh well, the times, they are a changin'. I usually don't care much about who Apple does business with but Wal-Mart are truly scumbags who have a wide-ranging and adverse effect on our society IMHO (and at odds with everything Apple has stood for in the past). Bow before the almighty dollar.
narco said:
They'd love to put all the local stores out of business, but they can't. They rely on us to do it for them... Seriously, I don't understand the gripes with Walmart "ruining" local businesses. Walmart obviously gives people what they want, if the local stores were worth supporting (for money, nostalgia, personal attention, etc) people would still go there. The logic of trying to get rid of a company that people love to go to just so that we'd have the luxury of paying higher prices at places that people would obviously rather not go to eludes me. They are a successful company with a lot of leverage, but remember, no one holds a gun to suppliers heads forcing them to sell their products there. If Apple doesn't think they'll make enough money, you can be sure they'll pull the plug.
Isaac
R3z said:
Reiterating that I'm not thrilled about anything Wal*Mart related, your objection makes no sense. Apple is selling the things as fast as they can make them anyway; under what grounds, exactly, is Waldo World Arena going to have any leverage with which to apply pricing pressure?
~J
While I am no fan of Walmart, in my town of 50,000 people there isn't a place to buy any Apple iPod. Staples and Radio Shack carry the hp ipods, but I don't think we will see a hp suffle. So this move would expand Apple's retail reach and exposure, which is a good thing.
SiliconAddict said:
on walmart: i don't get what a big fuss is all about them .... here in austria they haven't even started and in germany they get completly spanked by the compitition and sued over because of labour laws ....and after all _every_ store of them has net loss of over 30.000 _every_ day
they came on the market with big advertising about their low prices...few months later studies came out that the compition is cheaper by far..they dropped prices ... competition dropped prices(with still making profits)... walmart stopped advertising
_and_ they have the lowest 'customer satisfactioness' of all retails
on topic: for apple this will give them a nice boost in the US... good news for them ...
The problem is that people are often weak when it comes to acting on their morals when it involves self-sacrifice. (I am not exempt.) They either cannot afford to act on their moral belief due to financial concerns, which is entirely understandable, or they are not willing to sacrifice that much in order to act on their beliefs.
I have many friends who would like to buy a Macintosh after seeing mine in action, but they do not because of the higher initial cost. (Switching is more expensive than simply upgrading to a new PC, partly due to software changes.) They know the moral arguments, and what Microsoft has done business-wise, and they don't like what they hear, but in the end they choose to go with the route easiest on themselves. I know this feeling well, as I constantly wobble back and forth with my computer platform decision in the very same way.
It's the same with many people and Wal-Mart, they have either heard the bad reports or they have not. Those who have not heard them, are obviously not making any moral decision, they are just shopping. Those who have studied Wal-Mart have done one of two things, either they do not consider such things morally, or they have come to a moral crossroads regarding their business dealings with Wal-Mart. This second choice involves one of many possibilities, either shopping there less, not at all, or continuing to shop there and not involve sacrifice.
If you see another store or business, which has practices disagreeable to you, then you have to make a choice as well. In the end it comes down to how much you are willing to sacrifice, and if you are able to do so in the first place. If acting morally responsible in your business dealings were easy everyone would do it. As was previously stated in this thread, let your dollar do the talking. It's up to you to decide which battles you want to fight, if any.
Financially this is a good thing for Apple. I'll let you decide on the morality of it all.
I have many friends who would like to buy a Macintosh after seeing mine in action, but they do not because of the higher initial cost. (Switching is more expensive than simply upgrading to a new PC, partly due to software changes.) They know the moral arguments, and what Microsoft has done business-wise, and they don't like what they hear, but in the end they choose to go with the route easiest on themselves. I know this feeling well, as I constantly wobble back and forth with my computer platform decision in the very same way.
It's the same with many people and Wal-Mart, they have either heard the bad reports or they have not. Those who have not heard them, are obviously not making any moral decision, they are just shopping. Those who have studied Wal-Mart have done one of two things, either they do not consider such things morally, or they have come to a moral crossroads regarding their business dealings with Wal-Mart. This second choice involves one of many possibilities, either shopping there less, not at all, or continuing to shop there and not involve sacrifice.
If you see another store or business, which has practices disagreeable to you, then you have to make a choice as well. In the end it comes down to how much you are willing to sacrifice, and if you are able to do so in the first place. If acting morally responsible in your business dealings were easy everyone would do it. As was previously stated in this thread, let your dollar do the talking. It's up to you to decide which battles you want to fight, if any.
Financially this is a good thing for Apple. I'll let you decide on the morality of it all.
Well it's quite clear that WalMart isn't the most beloved retailer in the US and many people here would rather eat worms than buy stuff from them, but the fact remains that they are not merely a big retailer, they are immense.
If Apple don't let WalMart sell Shuffles, you can be entirely sure that WalMart will sell millions of other players and every one of those will be unsuitable for direct operation with iTMS.
It's considerably better for Apple and all Mac users if Walmart were to sell iPods rather than WMA players.
Maybe it's a sign that although iTMS is reportedly only marginally profitable at the moment, in the longer term Apple sees iTMS as a serious money-maker. In order for iTMS to become universally used, retailers like WalMart will need to sell players that work with iTMS.
Every time they sell a WMA player, it's a lost iTMS customer. Every time they sell an iPod, it's a potential iTMS customer but also a potential upgrader and switcher.
Apple needs to sell iPods everywhere if they're to be used by everyone.
If Apple don't let WalMart sell Shuffles, you can be entirely sure that WalMart will sell millions of other players and every one of those will be unsuitable for direct operation with iTMS.
It's considerably better for Apple and all Mac users if Walmart were to sell iPods rather than WMA players.
Maybe it's a sign that although iTMS is reportedly only marginally profitable at the moment, in the longer term Apple sees iTMS as a serious money-maker. In order for iTMS to become universally used, retailers like WalMart will need to sell players that work with iTMS.
Every time they sell a WMA player, it's a lost iTMS customer. Every time they sell an iPod, it's a potential iTMS customer but also a potential upgrader and switcher.
Apple needs to sell iPods everywhere if they're to be used by everyone.
walmart is going to exist whether shuffles are sold there or not. so enough of the "walmart is evil" talk. they don't care what you think.
apple can use all the distribution channles they can get. there are a lot more accessable walmarts then there are apple stores. no one knows were you got ipod from, just that you have one.
let walmart sell the shuffle. where else can you get your a prescription filled, tires rotated, buy a music player, and get a 3 gallon tub of peanut butter? you can't do that in SoHo.
apple can use all the distribution channles they can get. there are a lot more accessable walmarts then there are apple stores. no one knows were you got ipod from, just that you have one.
let walmart sell the shuffle. where else can you get your a prescription filled, tires rotated, buy a music player, and get a 3 gallon tub of peanut butter? you can't do that in SoHo.
HiRez said:
Selling out my ass. If you think Apple was ever anything other than a for profit business practicing the same tactics you complain about, you're delusional. The 1984 big brother ad, marketing, pure and simple. Think Different- damn straight, we need to sell some computers and very few are buying them.
Not Rubbermaid!
Ugh - when did this happen? Rubbermaid is one of the few superior companies that I will *always* give my business to when I have an option. Right up there with Apple in terms of quality of product. How did I miss that they went under? Are they completely under, or just falling?
As fer Walmart - I'd rather give my retail markup directly to Apple and wait for the shipping. We tend to forget that we vote with our wallets. Support those companies who have treated you well, folks. Talking about how good or bad a company is on a forum is one thing, but who you give your money to is what really matters!
Apple
Rubbermaid
S.C. Johnson
EZQuest
Shell
Lowe's
K-mart
Targus
Imation
3M
These are the folks who get my business when I have a choice. They take care of me, and I take care of them.
i_am_a_cow said:Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are *******s and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor.
Ugh - when did this happen? Rubbermaid is one of the few superior companies that I will *always* give my business to when I have an option. Right up there with Apple in terms of quality of product. How did I miss that they went under? Are they completely under, or just falling?
As fer Walmart - I'd rather give my retail markup directly to Apple and wait for the shipping. We tend to forget that we vote with our wallets. Support those companies who have treated you well, folks. Talking about how good or bad a company is on a forum is one thing, but who you give your money to is what really matters!
Apple
Rubbermaid
S.C. Johnson
EZQuest
Shell
Lowe's
K-mart
Targus
Imation
3M
These are the folks who get my business when I have a choice. They take care of me, and I take care of them.
jsalzer said:
shell?? hmm... well to each their own..
well said nicholas knight..
a thorough article about wal mart
The Truth About Wal-Mart
do i think wal-mart is one of the worst corporate citizens around? yes. do i think that it's naive to think that the other companies are all that much better? yes. it's wal-mart's size that has them even more under the microscope. some of their business practices are clearly reprehensible, and yet many of the people that shop there feel like they have no choice (financially)... and these are the same people wal-mart is screwing to begin with. a sad cycle.
I have to agree. While many of us may not like Wal-Mart, I can't blame Apple for seeing the need to sell there, as not doing so while the competition does, will hurt them.AlanAudio said:
It doesn't matter what they think, it does however matter what the customer thinks. Wal-Mart's own slogan is "The customer is always right." It's a good thing when fellow customers share all the information they have on Wal-Mart or any other business, so that they can all decide whether it is a place that they would like to do business at. Sharing information with the goal of helping others learn not only the good, but the bad side of a company, is a good thing. You don't have to read about it if you don't want to.Wonder Boy said:
Sun Baked said:Now Apple is hiding behind a really big evil corporation, now they are suddenly angels.
Apple would not refuse gaining marketshare when it comes to consumer desktops. And this is just one opportunity for the company to push its name into the world's largest retailer and in front of more people's eyes. Given the opportunity, Apple would be just as "evil" as the Dells and Microsofts of the world if its computers and software had a majority in usership. Just consider the recent lawsuit filed against Apple for its DRM <http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/06/slattery/index.php>. More of that is in store if Apple continues to grow, and I expect it will; Apple execs aren't going to be sitting around the boardroom one day and say, "You know what? Let's stop growing this company... it's getting too big to be cool anymore."
I think you nay sayers are all missing the point here....
First of all, not everyone lives right next to a major electronics store such as Best Buy, or Circuit City. The whole point is this is the get the iPod into the hands of those people who don't already own one and don't live somewhere around an electronics store.
Apple must plan on selling a TON of these iPod Shuffles if they want to sell in WalMart, because they will certinaly sell.
What this will do is also get Apple's name out to the people who aren't computer oriented and so they may at least think about buying a Mac.
That being said, if the iPod shuffle is doing real well, and Apple has caught up on Mac Mini orders, I think Apple should sell the Mac Mini in Walmart too. Apple's market share is diminishing. Its less than 1% worldwide. Its something like .8%. So in other words, out of every 100 computers sold worldwide, not even 1 of them on average is a Mac.
Apple needs to do something such as sell the Mac Mini in WalMart stores. This will further get Apple's name out there as a computer company, and NOT just the creators of the iPod. Believe it or not, there are still people out there that know of the iPod, but don't know that the creators of the iPod also make computers.
Now, in order to sell Mac Mini's in WalMart stores they need to find a way to market this really well or else it the Mini will just sit there and gather dust. The so called scumbags (no offense to anyone) that work in the electronics dept of WalMart will know nothing about it, so they will put it down as something thats not compatible with PCs, there's no software, no peripherals, etc, all which are not true as we all know. But you have to get that into people's heads, that Macs are just another producer of computers. I think this would be the best thing that Apple has done to increase their marketshre in the computer industry if they go ahead and do that. All they have to sell is the Mini itself. No Apple Cinema Displays, no iMacs, or other computers, nothing else. If there was one thing they could sell, its the keyboard and the mouse.
Software is another issue, but WalMart can increase its software dept without any problems and offer the basic Mac apps such as Office, Print Shop, and maybe a few games. Just the typical software titles that aren't standard on a Mac. WalMart doesn't offer much for software anyways except for the $10 rinkydink titles that sometimes run on both platforms.
It shouldn't matter what people think of WalMart. If the 350lb fatass moron down the street buys an iPod Shuffle and/or a Mac Mini thats the friggin' point of doing this. Just becuase WalMart treats its employees poorly, and Welfare people shop there doesn't mean its not suitable for Apple. It doesn't destroy Apple's name, it gets their name out there to others who don't have a clue as to what Apple is. If Apple feels any pressure from WalMart on anything, they'll pull their products right out of WalMarts hands, just like they did with Circuit City, Best Buy, and Sears and it will be a loss for WalMart, not Apple. Apple is in control here, not WalMart.
So I other words, I think this is something Apple should do. People need to stop thinking that Macs should only be sold in expensive electronic stores. Macs are for everyone, and everyone should have the opportunity to look at them, use them, and most of all, buy them.
First of all, not everyone lives right next to a major electronics store such as Best Buy, or Circuit City. The whole point is this is the get the iPod into the hands of those people who don't already own one and don't live somewhere around an electronics store.
Apple must plan on selling a TON of these iPod Shuffles if they want to sell in WalMart, because they will certinaly sell.
What this will do is also get Apple's name out to the people who aren't computer oriented and so they may at least think about buying a Mac.
That being said, if the iPod shuffle is doing real well, and Apple has caught up on Mac Mini orders, I think Apple should sell the Mac Mini in Walmart too. Apple's market share is diminishing. Its less than 1% worldwide. Its something like .8%. So in other words, out of every 100 computers sold worldwide, not even 1 of them on average is a Mac.
Apple needs to do something such as sell the Mac Mini in WalMart stores. This will further get Apple's name out there as a computer company, and NOT just the creators of the iPod. Believe it or not, there are still people out there that know of the iPod, but don't know that the creators of the iPod also make computers.
Now, in order to sell Mac Mini's in WalMart stores they need to find a way to market this really well or else it the Mini will just sit there and gather dust. The so called scumbags (no offense to anyone) that work in the electronics dept of WalMart will know nothing about it, so they will put it down as something thats not compatible with PCs, there's no software, no peripherals, etc, all which are not true as we all know. But you have to get that into people's heads, that Macs are just another producer of computers. I think this would be the best thing that Apple has done to increase their marketshre in the computer industry if they go ahead and do that. All they have to sell is the Mini itself. No Apple Cinema Displays, no iMacs, or other computers, nothing else. If there was one thing they could sell, its the keyboard and the mouse.
Software is another issue, but WalMart can increase its software dept without any problems and offer the basic Mac apps such as Office, Print Shop, and maybe a few games. Just the typical software titles that aren't standard on a Mac. WalMart doesn't offer much for software anyways except for the $10 rinkydink titles that sometimes run on both platforms.
It shouldn't matter what people think of WalMart. If the 350lb fatass moron down the street buys an iPod Shuffle and/or a Mac Mini thats the friggin' point of doing this. Just becuase WalMart treats its employees poorly, and Welfare people shop there doesn't mean its not suitable for Apple. It doesn't destroy Apple's name, it gets their name out there to others who don't have a clue as to what Apple is. If Apple feels any pressure from WalMart on anything, they'll pull their products right out of WalMarts hands, just like they did with Circuit City, Best Buy, and Sears and it will be a loss for WalMart, not Apple. Apple is in control here, not WalMart.
So I other words, I think this is something Apple should do. People need to stop thinking that Macs should only be sold in expensive electronic stores. Macs are for everyone, and everyone should have the opportunity to look at them, use them, and most of all, buy them.
Probably regional
Eh - it's probably regional, but I've never been met with anything less than an enthusiastic and warm welcome by the cashiers and clean facilities (indoor and out). It's a gas station. What more can you ask for?
The point being - send your money to the people who treat you right. It doesn't always work out in the end, but at least you've voted.
Now what I'd really hate to see happen with this deal is what I ran into buying a GE blender at Walmart 5 or 6 years ago. Upon closer inspection of the box, I discovered it wasn't a GE-designed or GE-built blender. It was a Wal-mart designed and built blender with the GE logo "licensed". How's that for scary!
jelloshotsrule said:
Eh - it's probably regional, but I've never been met with anything less than an enthusiastic and warm welcome by the cashiers and clean facilities (indoor and out). It's a gas station. What more can you ask for?
The point being - send your money to the people who treat you right. It doesn't always work out in the end, but at least you've voted.
Now what I'd really hate to see happen with this deal is what I ran into buying a GE blender at Walmart 5 or 6 years ago. Upon closer inspection of the box, I discovered it wasn't a GE-designed or GE-built blender. It was a Wal-mart designed and built blender with the GE logo "licensed". How's that for scary!
This could be a good move by apple to get apple's products out there in the midst of windows, but i dont think it is.
But its WAL-MART!!! Any one that says they love wal-mart is a employe and had their phone line taped, computer, and mail read making sure they dont insult the great communist government of America.
I dont remember who said it, but i hope this might change wal-mart, but i doubt it will. When wal-mart came to the town where i live, it closed down little family owned shops all over, good ones too. Places where you couldn't get things any where else. And you were purchasing from people you knew, so they treated you with respect, not "heres your crap, now move over for the next sucker."
But its WAL-MART!!! Any one that says they love wal-mart is a employe and had their phone line taped, computer, and mail read making sure they dont insult the great communist government of America.
I dont remember who said it, but i hope this might change wal-mart, but i doubt it will. When wal-mart came to the town where i live, it closed down little family owned shops all over, good ones too. Places where you couldn't get things any where else. And you were purchasing from people you knew, so they treated you with respect, not "heres your crap, now move over for the next sucker."
i_am_a_cow said:Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are *******s and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor.
This quote hits the nail on the head.
I am in college and work at a Wal-Mart for money. And seeing how that company opperates from the inside makes me sick. To all the people that think Microsoft and Bill Gates are the devil, I invite you to work at a Wal-Mart for just one weekend. I hate that company and their stores with a passion. When you see a news article about how horrible that company treats their employees it's usually, if not 100% of the time, true.
For instance, I work in the Photo Lab portion of the store. For three months we were without any type of management, this came to be a serious problem when the filter on our METS tank died. You see a METS Tank is used to dispose of the toxic substance that runs off of the machines, this is silver-bearing waste, when the filter dies a manager needs to order a new one. We had no manager and we had no filter, so we had to store this toxic waste in the lab. 70 gallons of the stuff was stored in our work-space, imagine for just a minute going into your job and having to watch where you walk because there are gasoline jugs full of toxic waste. "But wait just a minute Joe", you might say, "I've seen those commercials on TV telling me how great Wal-Mart is!" Well, who produced those commercials? Was it a third-party group? No! Of course you idiot, Wal-Mart is not going to come on TV and tell the world how *****ty it is to work there.
I also seem to suffer from the "curse", what we on the inside call it. When I or some of my co-workers try to get ahead and move on to another place of employment the "curse" always occurs, no matter how good my credentials or how well I present myself nobody wants to hire someone that's worked at Wal-Mart. And if your store management finds out that you've been looking for another job they get real arsey and try and punish you for being a traitor, even if it's just a second job that you are looking for. Wal-Mart tries to run people's lives. Wal-Mart is the cancer on the soul and working body of America.
Apple does not need to get sucked into this corporate death-trap. At first everybody is great in the deal, but then Wal-Mart will start to push it's weight around and demand cheaper and cheaper iPods. Wait and see, I know this company and in the long run has nothing good to offer Apple, America, or the World.
AlanAudio said:
You write this as if Apple doesn't already have 70%+ marketshare of digital music players. It's apparent to me that Apple really doesn't need Wal-Mart to be successful with the iPod. I mean if they were actually struggling to sell iPods, then I would buy your stupid theory. Apple doesn't need Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart needs Apple. Wal-Mart hasn't had success in their music store and they don't really sell a huge amount of digital music players that are actually worth buying.
rubbermaid.com
The Rubbermaid website seems to be working just fine. Beyond that, I'm curious to understand why people are so upset. If I remember right, Walmart started out as a member of the local economy and simply did better than everybody else.
Why are people bothered that the shuffle is being sold at walmart? I thought it was being hailed as the "affordable" ipod....one that everybody would use - no excuses about the price. I have a hard time imagining walking into a store and picking up a PM or PB. So those who worry about brand image needn't worry, and those who want a Shuffle but don't have close acces to a traditional distribution point will be satiated.
i_am_a_cow said:Walmart put Rubbermaid out of business!!! They are *******s and will try to drive Apple to cheap labor.
The Rubbermaid website seems to be working just fine. Beyond that, I'm curious to understand why people are so upset. If I remember right, Walmart started out as a member of the local economy and simply did better than everybody else.
Why are people bothered that the shuffle is being sold at walmart? I thought it was being hailed as the "affordable" ipod....one that everybody would use - no excuses about the price. I have a hard time imagining walking into a store and picking up a PM or PB. So those who worry about brand image needn't worry, and those who want a Shuffle but don't have close acces to a traditional distribution point will be satiated.