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walmart

sjpetry said:
I wonder if this will help sell Shuffles? :p :cool:

I dont know what i think of this. For one thing, im glad to see apples new products in stores other than compusa and apple stores themselves. second, i bet it is going to be a while until walmart sees thier shipments of shuffles cuz from what i hear apple is already behind on shipments. I do think however that the apple revolution is coming, shuffles in walmart, and minis in bestbuy, good things are gonna happen, i hope.
 
Walmart, IBM and Microsoft...

I can't put my finger on it but for some reason, this brings to my mind this old licensing deal between IBM and Microsoft when IBM was searching for an OS for their new PC back in the early 80's.

For those who don't know or remember, this is the one deal that catapulted Microsoft in the stratosphere...

It feels like one of those moments...
 
nbs2 said:
If I remember right, Walmart started out as a member of the local economy and simply did better than everybody else.

Contrary to Capitalism 101 and Adam Smith, that doesn't make things automatically ok.

~J
 
joeboy_45101 said:
It's apparent to me that Apple really doesn't need Wal-Mart to be successful with the iPod. I mean if they were actually struggling to sell iPods, then I would buy your stupid theory. Apple doesn't need Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart needs Apple. Wal-Mart hasn't had success in their music store and they don't really sell a huge amount of digital music players that are actually worth buying. :mad:

You have to consider saturation, too. Even if Apple is successful in selling what it has, to grow it needs to grow the available market. While the company has 70% wrapped up, the question is 70% of what: Upwards of ten million or so? And that's worldwide. A distribution network through Wal-Mart will allow Apple to (potentially) increase the number of people who may want an iPod/mp3 player. True, Apple doesn't need Wal-Mart to keep doing what it's doing, but Apple wants Wal-Mart in order to grow its dominance in mp3 players.
 
HiRez said:
Ugh, first HP, then Pepsi and McDonald's, now Wal-Mart? I hate to apply the phrase "selling out" to Apple but...yeesh. Then again, I suppose it will help them "sell out" in more ways than one. Oh well, the times, they are a changin'. I usually don't care much about who Apple does business with but Wal-Mart are truly scumbags who have a wide-ranging and adverse effect on our society IMHO (and at odds with everything Apple has stood for in the past). Bow before the almighty dollar.[/


QUOTE]
W E L L S A I D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​
 
WALMART!=EVIL.

Where do I start.....

Everyone loves to beat on Walmart because they are successful. That's the nature of the beast once you become popular, but my arguement is that this is going to be nothing but good for Apple, if it's true. Walmart has stores in alot mroe places then Apple does. I think what soem are worried about is that these stores start selling the iPod Shuffle and then Macs and and ......because Walmart can do it better and in more places, those nice and beautiful Apple Stores will shutdown. Gateway tried the same thing at about the same time Apple did, but they were not as successful at it and all of thier stores are now closed. Gateway's problem was not that they didn't do it right. They did. Their stores were equally as nice as the Apple store, with the exception of one thing....I could not walk in and walk out with a computer in hand. I can do this at ANY Apple store (unless I want a Mac Mini). Apple will continue to do this right. Unless they are really successful, you won't see the G5 at Walmart....ever. You just might see the Mac Mini at Walmart and Sam's.

Walmart, in some cases, does not kill communities. In some cases it saves them. Alot of times, I have found, Mom and Pop stores charge MORE then alot of stores because they CAN. If they are the only store in a small town, they can charge anything they want. What choice do you have? Well, if it's not food, you can order it on the internet but with food, you can only drive so far away. Most people do not have a refrgerated trunk. That milk will spoil if your not home in enough time. I will say that the farthest you can go to the store is abotu 30 miles away. Most cold and frozen stuff can't reliably last much longer than 30 minutes with out refrigeration. So for YEARS some communities may pay far more for thier food because they have no choice. Same thing goes with other items....the local Amateur Radio Store here typically is higher than say HRO. They charge the price they charge because they can. People are willing to go to the local store because if they have a problem with it, they can take it back rather then shipping it back. Sometimes it may just be operator error and the store can show you how to fix your problem. This reason is why I do pay mroe then buying it online. The local store survives. If HRO opens up a store in my area (they likely would not), and they are priced cheaper, the store I have been going to will nto get my money. Same goes for Walmart. It's not Walmart's fault they are successful in getting lower prices where the mom and pop's are not. Sure, Walmart has more clout because of the size of thier organization is, but you know what....anyone want to GUESS how Walmart started? IT WAS A MOM AND POP! Same goes with Meijer, another successful Mom and Pop. Also, any company the size of either of these chains is going to gain negaive publicity. The honest thing is most people could care less.

Walmart opened their store in Rogers, AK in 1962. By 1967, they already has 24 stores. By 1971, they had 38 stores in 5 states. Walmart's IPO on the NYSE was in 1972. In contrast, Meijer still has not had a IPO. They are still owned, to this day, by the Meijer Family. While not as large as Walmart, they still are a force to be reckoned with in the midwest. Meijer pioneered the superstore. Walmart was just late to that party as was Kmart. In any case, before you start complaining that Walmart is bad, be open minded and read about the positive things they do which are FAR more prevelent, I find, with Walmart then they are given credit for.

Also, I have not seen nore heard a single story that Walmart refuses to hire union workers. Walmart legally can do nothing to stop the unionization of it's workers. It's entirely legal for Walmart to give a pay raise and satisfy all of the gripes the workers have for starting a union. If they do that and the employees choose not to unionize, then what is so wrong with that? Unions were once needed because almost ALL for profit companies were screwing their employees. I contend now, with the current governmental controls, theirs MORE power in negotiating your own benefits, if you can. Your voice can be heard if youc an talk to management. Once your unionized, your only voice is to your union rep who SHOULD share what you said with management, but likely will shape it with his own agenda. You have more power if you can directly go to management and voice your opinion with the promise that the management doesn't punish you for a idea. Unions are set up by the companies workers. Their can be a Walmart Workers Union or the workers can choose to associate with the UFCW or some other union. The fact that there are not Unions in alot of Walmart stores indicates, to me, that the employees are generally happy.

My personal experience with Walmart is entirely positive. They help out in the community and are a good community citizen. Also almost every employee I have met at a Walmart have been mostly happy to be there. Oh sure, noone can ever be completely happy at work, but most of the employees I have met were genuine and helpful.

So back to the subject at hand, is this a good thing for Apple? Well, if it sells at Walmart well, it's a awesome thing for Apple. Not only do they sell more iPods, but they also get the ancillary sales from iTMS. If Walmart sells enough iPods, I bet we'll see a resurgence and Mac Mini's will also be added and possibly a Mac software section. Eventually, Apple will start to gain ground on Wintel and I personally don't care how it would happen, but if the Mac starts to outsell Wintel, it would only be a god thing. People are getting tired of being screwed by that cheap PC they bought at Walmart with a shoddy OS that allows virii and worms to proliferate. The archetecture of Mac OS X, while not bomb proof, it is much better then Windows and less susceptible to viruses. Sure, it woudl come under attack more the more popular it becomes, but it's alot harder to find a bug in a OS that has as it's two catch phrases: it just works and it's simple.

I wanted to add something...I find it ironic that Teresa HEINZ Kerry who has made many negative comments about Walmart, still sells Ketchup at Walmart.
 
Wal*Mart seems to attract the "good-ol'-hard-workin'-god-bless-the-USA" slice of American Pie, not quite the hot-bed-of-technology-types that I think will appreciate or understand Apple. I think Wal*Mart customers, for the most part, will just see the Apple logo and dismiss Shuffle altogether, figuring it won't work with their computer (if they even have one).

Also, as far as the Electronics staff knowing what's is going on or how something works, you couldn't do much worse. If you work for Wal*Mart don't get pissed, you know that my generalizations are not indicative of ALL Wal*Mart, but certainly a heck of lot of 'em. And you probably work along side a whole lot of them.

Now, I shop at Wal*Mart. I buy certain things there. Food, Detergent, Drugs and I get my oil changed there. Wal*Mart, however, is not the first store that comes to mind when I think of were to go to buy technology.

Now, hopefully, Apple will change my perceptions -- but I doubt it.
 
Kagetenshi said:
Contrary to Capitalism 101 and Adam Smith, that doesn't make things automatically ok.

~J

Should companies be forced to stop growing when they reach a certain level of dominance in an industry? Or are we saying that corporations should not use their clout to ensure better deals so as to increase their profits? I guess ipod marketshare has reached walmart levels, making it difficult/almost impossible for small manufacturers to find business profitable. And I'm sure that Apple has leveraged that share to get better deals from suppliers. I'm sure that every company is always trying to improve its position with suppliers and distributors.

I guess what I'd like to know is why walmart is so evil. How do they "destroy" the local economy in a way that is different from what the catalog companies of the past, department stores, malls, supermarkets, fast food chains, multi-plexes, etc? Why are their low-cost tactics worse than dollar stores, outlets, supermarkets, etc?
 
Lacero said:
Wal-Mart could destroy Apple if it wanted to.
You're high. How could this happen. They don't even SELL Apple stuff yet! And now they're getting a single product, Apple's cheapest offering to date.

Wal-Mart will set the price, Apple will have to follow.
Apple won't HAVE to do anything. I don't think Steve Jobs is the type of person that lets other corporations tell him what to do. If you think this, you haven't been on the Apple scene long at all.
 
nbs2 said:
Should companies be forced to stop growing when they reach a certain level of dominance in an industry? Or are we saying that corporations should not use their clout to ensure better deals so as to increase their profits? I guess ipod marketshare has reached walmart levels, making it difficult/almost impossible for small manufacturers to find business profitable. And I'm sure that Apple has leveraged that share to get better deals from suppliers. I'm sure that every company is always trying to improve its position with suppliers and distributors.

I guess what I'd like to know is why walmart is so evil. How do they "destroy" the local economy in a way that is different from what the catalog companies of the past, department stores, malls, supermarkets, fast food chains, multi-plexes, etc? Why are their low-cost tactics worse than dollar stores, outlets, supermarkets, etc?

To your first question: yes. You and I don't know what it is to live in an age of true monopolies. I do not believe for one second that monopolistic control by a company is good for society. I mean Jesus Christ!, this is America the land of diversity. What the hell did we fight the fascists for, to stop one-party control. Why did we oppose the communists, to stop one-party control.

And to all the people out there bashing unions let me tell you something, if it wasn't for unions we wouldn't have the 8-hr work day. You would be working in some dank factory for 12 and 15 hours a day, making barely enough to live on. You would still have child-labor. What kind of sick person could uphold that type of work environment?

And when somebody says Wal-Mart doesn't oppose unions let me tell you, I work for those people and when I went through my training we watched a video on how to spot and deter union organizers within the company. We are trained to spot and eliminate any opposition to Wal-Mart's way of thinking, Stalinistic if you ask me. Apple doesn't need to associate themselves with that type of company. I remember watching a video of Steve Jobs and he described Microsoft as, "They have no class what-so-ever!", he continued, "They don't bring any class to what they are doing." I'd say who could apply the same thing to Wal-Mart.
 
Get Over It

HiRez said:
Ugh, first HP, then Pepsi and McDonald's, now Wal-Mart? I hate to apply the phrase "selling out" to Apple but...yeesh. Then again, I suppose it will help them "sell out" in more ways than one. Oh well, the times, they are a changin'. I usually don't care much about who Apple does business with but Wal-Mart are truly scumbags who have a wide-ranging and adverse effect on our society IMHO (and at odds with everything Apple has stood for in the past). Bow before the almighty dollar.

Everyone wonders way Apple has such a small market share and it is attitudes like this. Apple finally starts marketing to the consumers (low-end) and everyone who has been using them forever gets mad becuase now everyone has the possibility to use them. You probably shop at Target because its monochromatic design and squeaky clean floors (much like Apples); I love Apple products and I think that it is great that they are marketing to the general population. I am sure many of you own stock this is going to make you money.

People reading these sites are going to get the idea that Apple users are a bunch of stuck-up rich people who want to be in a select group containing only people like themselves.

Wake-up people, Apple is trying to expand and market to everyone not just those who can dish out a few thousand dollars for a computer. So get over it.
 
Kagetenshi said:
Contrary to Capitalism 101 and Adam Smith, that doesn't make things automatically ok.

~J

Well, you gave not evidence to the contrary did you. Contrary to Socialism 101 - there's an idea that's gone real well - it is. Leave the government out of it and let competition thrive. If WalMart doesn't meet the needs of the community, a better option will emerge.

So it charges little, and pays little. The employees know nothing about products, etc. Well, at some point, a moderately priced store will open up in that communty with knowledgeable salespeople that will fit the niche.

The internet now takes the place of the post office. Let's get rid of that. People aren't selling many horse and wagons anymore due to car manufacturers, let's get rid of car manufacturers.

The free market will find a way and society is better and freer for it. Keep government intervention out of it. All they can do is put a band-aid on a problem for a temporary fix - with my money - which causes another problem, which needs more legislation and promises, etc.

The only problem I have with WalMart is imminent domain. They have used their weight to convince local governments to use imminent domain in pretty sketchy ways to allow WalMart to build stores. But once again, it's the government that stepped in and allowed the problem. Pretty creative to WalMart to try, and ridiculous that they succeeded. Any elected official that supports this lack of respect for property rights needs to be voted out.
 
I'm impressed

As soon as I saw this thread, I was going to post about the evils of Wal-Mart...but I was pleased to see 80 people beat me to it. Take five minutes to understand how our entire economic system works and anyone can see how Wal-Mart is ruining our country and our basic economic system.

Me and my family stopped going there three years ago, and I can honestly say that we save ALOT of money by going to other places because we don't buy a bunch of crap we don't need and we buy better quality products that meet our needs.

Nice to know I'm not alone... :)
 
Wal-Mart and Empty Shelves

I just thought about how Wal*Mart operates and its almost ZERO tolerance with unfulfilled orders and empty shelves. Couple this with Apple and its neverending ability to NOT have product on time and in the types of quantities that it will take to keep Wal*Mart happy. Regardless of Apple getting into WM, I doubt it will stay. It will not be able to keep up with the demand and get dropped faster than you can say "World Domination".
 
speleoterra said:
As for Canada, (that's the country above you stateside Americans by the way).

No, no, no, Canada, like Maine, Alaska, and Vermont is one of the 50 states. They were added just after Florida was sold to Cuba for $50 plus two strings of glass beads. Don't you know your history?!?
 
ChapterHouse said:
I can't put my finger on it but for some reason, this brings to my mind this old licensing deal between IBM and Microsoft when IBM was searching for an OS for their new PC back in the early 80's.

For those who don't know or remember, this is the one deal that catapulted Microsoft in the stratosphere...

It feels like one of those moments...
Put your money where your mouth is. Buy Apple stock. :)
 
bretm said:
Well, you gave not evidence to the contrary did you. Contrary to Socialism 101 - there's an idea that's gone real well - it is. Leave the government out of it and let competition thrive. If WalMart doesn't meet the needs of the community, a better option will emerge.

Unfortunately, that's not the way it works. People who are poor have very little cash to make ends meet, and therefore shop at whatever the cheapest place is. Often, it's Wal*Mart. However, Wal*Mart is one of the lowest wage, anti-union employers around, and ends up driving local companies out of business. When they go under, those people who were shopping at Wal*Mart have no choice but to go work for them for less money than they were making before.

So it charges little, and pays little. The employees know nothing about products, etc. Well, at some point, a moderately priced store will open up in that communty with knowledgeable salespeople that will fit the niche.

There are many communities that wouldn't not support a "moderately" priced store. I'm not sure where you live, but I can show you some areas where this definitely isn't true.

The internet now takes the place of the post office. Let's get rid of that. People aren't selling many horse and wagons anymore due to car manufacturers, let's get rid of car manufacturers.

No one is suggesting any of this.

The free market will find a way and society is better and freer for it.

Ah yes. The "invisible hand" argument. How is it then that the most free market economy of the industrialized nations (America's), in one of the largest nations in the world, only ranks 9th in standard of living? Smaller nations with less resources such as Sweden, a socialist country, are on top almost every time. Your argument that capitalism fixes things like magic and that socialism never works is bunk.

They have used their weight to convince local governments to use imminent domain in pretty sketchy ways to allow WalMart to build stores. But once again, it's the government that stepped in and allowed the problem. Pretty creative to WalMart to try, and ridiculous that they succeeded. Any elected official that supports this lack of respect for property rights needs to be voted out.

I agree with you here. Sadly, American culture is so apathetic towards these sort of things (one could make the argument that their mentality has been eroded by consumerism, but I digress). In a socialist country, where there is a concept of "the greater good", stores like Wal*Mart do not flourish. It is only in primitive capitalist nations where corporations like this can take advantage of the people.
 
I only read the first page so all apologies if this was said, but a lot of people are bringing up that Walmart has a music store that competes with iTunes and now they're going to sell iPods.

The thing is, there's like hundreds of coorporations that don't regularly deal with music (Walmart has a music section...with like 20 cd's....and 19 are Yanni) that have opened music stores.

Best Buy is teamed up with Rhapsody but they sell iPods. Virgin has a store but they sell iPods.

So it's really not quite as bad as say Microsoft.com selling iPods :p
 
What kind of liberal is Steve Jobs?

Apple + Pepsi: Hey! Lets help rot more people's teeth, and make them fatter together!
Apple + McDonalds (Steve wanted this deal): Lets help more people get fat and kill themselves!
Apple + WalMart: Why stop when we're on a roll? Might as well help the most evil corporation on the planet make even more money.

I'm just sayin'

I know Steve is a businessman first, and a liberal second...but c'mon. :rolleyes:
 
Wollyworld

I too am impressed with all our PBS watching Apple users!
I agree on many points.
I was there recently (not many 24 hour shops around), and bought a digital vivitar for my little niece... It was twenty something bucks, and a hat for myself, $ .50 , and some dogfood. Yes, I killed an Angel when the cashier rang me up.
I try not to shop there when I can avoid it, preferring to make multiple trips to multiple stores.

BUT
Wal-Mart is middle America. They are in all these rural spots, where you shop at Wal-mart or the local truck stop. That's a lot of people. Talk about growing the share of iTunes users while also taking over the flash market!
Apple might be better from the experience anyway... see what happened to Target when you offer a discount that isn't approved?
Apple price fixes, and Walmart pressures... my guess is that Apple would walk out of "negotiations" before cow-towing, but who knows... Some people ONLY shop at walmart.
 
yip

AlanAudio said:
Well it's quite clear that WalMart isn't the most beloved retailer in the US and many people here would rather eat worms than buy stuff from them, but the fact remains that they are not merely a big retailer, they are immense.

If Apple don't let WalMart sell Shuffles, you can be entirely sure that WalMart will sell millions of other players and every one of those will be unsuitable for direct operation with iTMS.

It's considerably better for Apple and all Mac users if Walmart were to sell iPods rather than WMA players.

Maybe it's a sign that although iTMS is reportedly only marginally profitable at the moment, in the longer term Apple sees iTMS as a serious money-maker. In order for iTMS to become universally used, retailers like WalMart will need to sell players that work with iTMS.

Every time they sell a WMA player, it's a lost iTMS customer. Every time they sell an iPod, it's a potential iTMS customer but also a potential upgrader and switcher.

Apple needs to sell iPods everywhere if they're to be used by everyone.


I agree

I saw the documentary on wal-mart, i just have to say, it's a shame things are like they are, but fact is they are, america is based on consumism, and walmart has the biggest ppol of consumers, some people 'buy everything here at wal-mart' so let them buy an ipod shuffle too, then an ipod, then a mac mini, then a 2.5GHZ Dual PowerMac G5 with 2 30" monitors and let them reach the REAL American Dream.

now seriously, who here has NOT bought something at wal-mart?

give me a squiggly! that was so gay...
 
Apparently most of you seem to have forgotten that Wal-mart used to sell Macs. That's where my first Mac came from. It didn't destroy Apple then, it won't destroy them now. Wal-Mart's business practices are no worse than the Bestbuys of the world. They're driving local computer shops out of business just like Wal-Mart did to mom and pop general stores. With everybody getting computers nowdays, MP3 players are the successors of portable CD players, and while Apple now has a majority share of the market, they are the only ones using their standard, while the rest of the world is using a different one. So to stay ahead of the game, Apple has to out sell every one else combined. So far they've been able too, but as more and more people buy MP3 players it will grow harder. So the people who live in their double wide get their $499 complete computer system from Wal-Mart(and yes there are a lot of them) and they decided they(or their kids) want an MP3 player. They live in a small rural town with the closest Bestbuy or Circuit City 50 miles away, but there's a Wal-Mart just down the road, so they go there first. The iPod brand name is basically like the Walkman brand name was and is often thrown around as a generic term for MP3 player. Now if they see the brand they've heard of on the shelves of Wal-Mart, they're rather likely to buy it, but if now, they aren't going to drive 50 miles to get one, they are going to get whatever Wal-Mart has.

Probably the stupidest arguments that I've heard in this thread is that the iPod won't be as cool if everybody has one. From the start Apple's original goal was to make computers for everyone, but they were basically forced into the high end niche they are in now. With the iPod Apple has a second chance to do things right and bring their products to everyone, and with the Mac mini, take a second chance with making it the every man's computer. But then again I'm guessing ya'll are the same people who's reaction to Bush's re-election was "oh no the peasants are revolting".
 
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