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Agreed. I'd go further and say what makes the difference is:

- mouse and keyboard
- non locked down, restricted OS
- decent dual core processor, memory, flash drive (all much faster)
- standard ports
- external screen

People who say you can do real work on an ipad and compare it to a laptop and kidding themselves, or they think browsing is real work.

Seriously anti-Apple zealot? Go away troll.
 
You should say "no-brain":

- with a laptop you can see the screen comfortably with no hands, the ipad has to be propped up
- you can operate the laptop with one hand comfortably (see above point)
- you can enter text (web addresses, passwords, whatever) much more quickly on a laptop

Lets face it, the iPad is a pretentious toy, people like the above have just convinced themselves it's useful... without any facts.

Pretentious toy? What does that even mean? God you haters are so pathetic. The iPad is awesome and those that like it can't help you can't afford one and spend all of your free time posting how much you hate it instead of working or pan handling to get one.
 
Every time Walt Mossberg reviews a new Apple product, he sparks something in the MS / PC / Android camps because he "gets" what Macs and OSX and iOS are all about, and a lot of people, simply will never "get" it.

I think he lays out the pros and cons quite well, and since he understands the appeal of Macs, why can't he get a little excited when new Apple hardware comes across his desk for review? Can anybody get all that pumped for the plethora of look alike PCs from so many different manufacturers?

For the record, I'm not knocking PCs at all. There are so many different models out there, all running the same system, that a new model intro doesn't often stop the presses. Who else but Apple can get both the Mac and PC camps so stirred up with a new product?

The last thing I need is a new 11.6" MBA, but now I want one, dammit. See? Apple's done it to me again. Me thinks the little woman's getting an IOU this Christmas.
 
In a year of remarkable growth -- the Airs have come of age while the iMacs and 15 and 17-inch MBPs got Arrandale processors/discrete graphics, plus the iPad & iPhone 4 were launched -- I ponied up 1,200 dollars of my hard earned money on essentially the only Apple device given short shrift. Admittedly, I was relieved when the 13-inch MBP was neglected at the most recent conference -- since I purchased my MBP in late September, it would have stung had the overdue, next generation of processors found its way into one of them.

Nonetheless, based on the reviews of the new Airs, Apple should be, at this point, embarrassed to use the "Pro" appellation with the 13-inch. The Airs are more enticing than I could have imagined. The Airs should be designed to maintain superlative portability while compromising, as little as possible, the performance when compared to their beefier counterparts. But the sad truth is that, the Airs are superior to the MBPs in certain professional respects. The zippiness of the flash storage is integral to the smaller design so I'll withhold my grumbling about that.

What make my blood boil is that the 13-inch MBA has an equivalent screen resolution to the 15-inch MBP, and what's worse than that is that even the diminutive 11.6" -- hinged AirPad -- has a greater screen resolution than the 13-inch MBP. But what reallllly ruffles my feathers, is that you don't even have the option with the 13-inch MacBook Pro to upgrade to a greater screen resolution. Aren't the "Pro" machines supposed to be tailored to Professionals, you know Graphic and Video editors? Is this an oversight or does Apple not care about anything other than sales reports?
 
Seriously anti-Apple zealot? Go away troll.

Pretentious toy? What does that even mean? God you haters are so pathetic. The iPad is awesome and those that like it can't help you can't afford one and spend all of your free time posting how much you hate it instead of working or pan handling to get one.

What's funny to me is people who can't stand having the iPad criticised, but have nothing to say in it's favour then make personal attacks instead. Sort of shows they they have no come back on the facts.

I'm not buying a iPad. I am buying the 11.6" Air, fully loaded, at about twice the price of an iPad, because it's so portable and so useful. Sort of makes both of your comments sound daft.


PS: if you don't know what pretentious means look it up in the dictionary. Also the iPad is a toy because you can't do any real work on it.
 
In Person

The Macbook Air looks nice in person. I do wish they had the bezel around the screen just because I have a Macbook Pro. I would rather have the 13.3'' Macbook Air than the 11.6'' because I like more screen space. On the 11.6'' Macbook air, the web pages that I opened seemed squeezed in. I had to scroll left, right, up and down more often than I usually do. Overall, I was impressed with the Macbook air especially how light and portable the computer is.
 
What's funny to me is people who can't stand having the iPad criticised, but have nothing to say in it's favour then make personal attacks instead. Sort of shows they they have no come back on the facts.

Neither argument was much of a fact-based argument.

Here are some facts - instead of having to drag an expensive machine with me whenever I travel on business, I now carry a single, lightweight device that takes the place of physical books and my iPod for airport/airplane entertainment, allows me to display powerpoint presentations on a projector when I get to my destination, gives me continuous internet access (costing, per month, what I used to pay for about 2 days of pay-as-you-go), allows me to do lightweight word and excel editing, allows me full read access to all my work email, including attachments, etc. It's made my bags lighter, my life easier, and that's just on the road.

In my house, I no longer take my MBP out of its bag unless I'm running handbrake, coding in xcode, or working from home - everything else i can do from the ipad. It's essentially the computer I use whenever I'm not sitting in my office, at this point.
 
Neither argument was much of a fact-based argument.

Here are some facts - instead of having to drag an expensive machine with me whenever I travel on business, I now carry a single, lightweight device that takes the place of physical books and my iPod for airport/airplane entertainment, allows me to display powerpoint presentations on a projector when I get to my destination, gives me continuous internet access (costing, per month, what I used to pay for about 2 days of pay-as-you-go), allows me to do lightweight word and excel editing, allows me full read access to all my work email, including attachments, etc. It's made my bags lighter, my life easier, and that's just on the road.

In my house, I no longer take my MBP out of its bag unless I'm running handbrake, coding in xcode, or working from home - everything else i can do from the ipad. It's essentially the computer I use whenever I'm not sitting in my office, at this point.

Yeah but with the 11.6 you can do all that plus code, etc. I plan on running 3 1920 x 1080 monitors from my 11.6, with bluetooth keyboard, trackpad it's a desktop and super productive, otherwise it's not much bigger than an ipad when on the go. It's perfect and so much more flexible and powerful than an ipad.
 
Yeah but with the 11.6 you can do all that plus code, etc. I plan on running 3 1920 x 1080 monitors from my 11.6, with bluetooth keyboard, trackpad it's a desktop and super productive, otherwise it's not much bigger than an ipad when on the go. It's perfect and so much more flexible and powerful than an ipad.

Will you have built-in 3G access, accelerometer based games/apps, and GPS apps? Airs and iPads are both great devices. It doesn't have to be one or the other. For a moderate price of $1600 you can have both...combined weight and price less than a 15" Macbook Pro. Install Air Display and use them together and have screen resolution between a 21" and 27" iMac.

Granted, if I could have only one it would have to be the Air (for productivity apps not available on the iPad), but I'd be missing out on more "fun" apps (that aren't available on the Air)...not to mention using an iPad is just a whole different computing experience because of the touchscreen, accelerometers, GPS, app store, etc.
 
Will you have built-in 3G access, accelerometer based games/apps, and GPS apps? Airs and iPads are both great devices. It doesn't have to be one or the other. For a moderate price of $1600 you can have both...combined weight and price less than a 15" Macbook Pro. Install Air Display and use them together and have screen resolution between a 21" and 27" iMac.

Granted, if I could have only one it would have to be the Air (for productivity apps not available on the iPad), but I'd be missing out on more "fun" apps (that aren't available on the Air)...not to mention using an iPad is just a whole different computing experience because of the touchscreen, accelerometers, GPS, app store, etc.

Those things is why you get a phone. This is the problem with the ipad, too big to be super portable, too small to do real work. Personally I get internet access on the go by using my phone as a modem, but there are other options.

I'm guessing that ipad sales will slip over time once the hype dissipates. Although there are real applications in "hands on" situations like medicine and some other niches, the ipad isn't useful in a general sense like laptops are.
 
Those things is why you get a phone. This is the problem with the ipad, too big to be super portable, too small to do real work. Personally I get internet access on the go by using my phone as a modem, but there are other options.

The iPad had 5x the number of pixels as an iPhone when it was released. There's a lot of benefit to a larger display size, and at 1.5lbs it's not "too big to be super portable" (the 11.6" Air is 3lbs after all). You wouldn't say 11.6" Macbook Airs are "too small to do real work" simply because people with 27" iMacs work with displays with 3.5x the number of pixels, would you?

I'm guessing that ipad sales will slip over time once the hype dissipates. Although there are real applications in "hands on" situations like medicine and some other niches, the ipad isn't useful in a general sense like laptops are.

I'm guessing you'll eat your words in a year or two as the iOS continues to mature and is used in more traditional work environments.
 
Those things is why you get a phone. This is the problem with the ipad, too big to be super portable, too small to do real work. Personally I get internet access on the go by using my phone as a modem, but there are other options.

I'm guessing that ipad sales will slip over time once the hype dissipates. Although there are real applications in "hands on" situations like medicine and some other niches, the ipad isn't useful in a general sense like laptops are.

The issue was calling an iPad essentially a useless toy for rich people. It's not. The fact that under the right conditions other devices (airs, phones) are nice is not the point.

I will point out that for the uses I mentioned an iPad is better than an air - lighter, better battery life, built in 3G, cheaper, and much cheaper 3G data plans. And it's better than an iPhone for some purposes (better battery life, easier browsing, bigger keyboard for entering text, better games if you are old like me, etc.)

I used to kill my iPhone battery on a cross country flight. Now I don't touch my phone until I land.
 
One thing I hate about the stupid iPad :

Every time we try to have a thread about Macs, it degenerates into an iPad thread. Look, we get you guys like your iPads so much, but please keep that crap in your own threads.
 
I had a chance to play with them at Best Buy. The function keys are a bit too shaky on the 11.6" models. I wasn't able to get the fan to spin up from CPU load alone either. They're cool and quiet but I'm not going to get another computer to see Core 2 again.

Apple needs some new CPU hardware. Better luck next year.
 
I know people talk about using these machines to run multiple VMs, but they have to be the exception and not the rule for this class of machine.

And just how much does the i3-330UM really give up to the SL9400 in integer performance with "light productivity" apps (like Office, iWorks, iLife, Safari) compared to how much the i3-330UM gives up to the nVidia 330m in graphics performance for apps like Quicktime, VLC, PhotoShop, Aperture and such?
 
The iPad had 5x the number of pixels as an iPhone when it was released. There's a lot of benefit to a larger display size, and at 1.5lbs it's not "too big to be super portable" (the 11.6" Air is 3lbs after all). You wouldn't say 11.6" Macbook Airs are "too small to do real work" simply because people with 27" iMacs work with displays with 3.5x the number of pixels, would you?

I'm guessing you'll eat your words in a year or two as the iOS continues to mature and is used in more traditional work environments.

You conveniently have left out portability. I could carry around a 30" monitor and a generator if pixels were the issue, but it's a combination of portability and power that is at stake. You can't put the ipad into your pocket. Having the combination of a phone and an MBA 11.6 works much better than an ipad, using them together or individually. That is my point, the ipad does relativley little and is in a "sour spot" for size.

I really haven't heard any arguments as to why the ipad will get more popular. It has few mainstream applications, lacks portability relative to phones, lacks power relative to small laptops. It's over-hyped and set to fade away long term.
 
The issue was calling an iPad essentially a useless toy for rich people. It's not. The fact that under the right conditions other devices (airs, phones) are nice is not the point.

I will point out that for the uses I mentioned an iPad is better than an air - lighter, better battery life, built in 3G, cheaper, and much cheaper 3G data plans. And it's better than an iPhone for some purposes (better battery life, easier browsing, bigger keyboard for entering text, better games if you are old like me, etc.)

I used to kill my iPhone battery on a cross country flight. Now I don't touch my phone until I land.

I said the ipad is a pretentious toy, rich people have nothing to do with it. But for similar sorts of money you can get something much better. The ipad has such narrow uses, essentially reading/browsing stuff. Compare it to the low end MBA 11.6 and you get so much more (a full computer with mouse and keyboard) with similar portability. THings like 3G you can add, and there are all sorts of 3G plans available for things other than the ipad. The fact that it helps you save on your phone battery (by carrying another large, expensive device) isn't compelling.
 
I said the ipad is a pretentious toy, rich people have nothing to do with it. But for similar sorts of money you can get something much better. The ipad has such narrow uses, essentially reading/browsing stuff. Compare it to the low end MBA 11.6 and you get so much more (a full computer with mouse and keyboard) with similar portability. THings like 3G you can add, and there are all sorts of 3G plans available for things other than the ipad. The fact that it helps you save on your phone battery (by carrying another large, expensive device) isn't compelling.

3G for anything else costs much more than my $30 unlimited plan for ipad does. The 3G modem costs $100-200 unless I accept a contract. The cost of laptop plus modem costs much more than iPad, with higher recurring expenses, worse battery life, and less portability.

None of your alternatives compete on cost, weight, or battery life, and none add any functionality I (and many other people) need when on the road or sitting on the couch.
 
3G for anything else costs much more than my $30 unlimited plan for ipad does. The 3G modem costs $100-200 unless I accept a contract. The cost of laptop plus modem costs much more than iPad, with higher recurring expenses, worse battery life, and less portability.

None of your alternatives compete on cost, weight, or battery life, and none add any functionality I (and many other people) need when on the road or sitting on the couch.

Yeah the $30 unlimited plan that no-one can actually get today. Everyone else pays $25 for 2GB. Also if you're travelling US data plans don't help you much. There are lots of options for people who want data. Here is a modem for $75 without a contract < http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-4596-USB-Tri-band-Modem/dp/B002S43OS6 > but also people can use their phone as a modem, as I do. Inflating costs to try to prop up your weak argument won't work.

The point is the trade-off between size and functionality. You say most people, but most people who can actually afford to spend $500-$700 on something with such limited functionality actually have work to do and would rather have a small laptop. For people who want to look "fashionable" but don't really have any work to do on the go, the ipad does the job.
 
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3G for anything else costs much more than my $30 unlimited plan for ipad does. The 3G modem costs $100-200 unless I accept a contract. The cost of laptop plus modem costs much more than iPad, with higher recurring expenses, worse battery life, and less portability.

None of your alternatives compete on cost, weight, or battery life, and none add any functionality I (and many other people) need when on the road or sitting on the couch.

My iPhone's tethering is free. Don't presume AT&T's ****** plans are a world problem. Including 3G directly on the Air would've been a big waste of money for buyers.
 
My iPhone's tethering is free. Don't presume AT&T's ****** plans are a world problem. Including 3G directly on the Air would've been a big waste of money for buyers.

Strangely, I've found WiFi is more reliable when travelling than 3G. Throw in the fact that 3G in multiple countries for a short period eg US, Germany, Croatia, Australia, Japan, is prohibitively expensive (like more than you paid for your ipad) and often not available. Wifi on the other hand seems to be available everywhere there is an electrical connection including places you won't find 3G: on planes and in the countryside. When I travel I don't bother tuning on my phone usually, I just skype from my laptop.
 
Yeah the $30 unlimited plan that no-one can actually get today. Everyone else pays $25 for 2GB.

Yes. I'm still on the $30. And if the class action turns out well, maybe more of us will be. In any even, $25 for 2GB beats what verizon was charging me for the usb stick i used to use (I now use a $40/unlimited mifi from virgin mobile when I need to).

Also if you're travelling US data plans don't help you much.

Believe it or not, it's quite possible to travel within the united states. In fact, here's a little shocking statistic: most business travel for U.S. businesses is within the united states.

There are lots of options for people who want data. Here is a modem for $75 without a contract < http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-4596-USB-Tri-band-Modem/dp/B002S43OS6 > but also people can use their phone as a modem, as I do. Inflating costs to try to prop up your weak argument won't work.

I inflated costs by $25? I said it costs from $100-$200 for a stick without a contract. I think most sticks cost in that range, but if a single example where I was off by $25 makes me a liar...

The point is the trade-off between size and functionality. You say most people, but most people who can actually afford to spend $500-$700 on something with such limited functionality actually have work to do and would rather have a small laptop. For people who want to look "fashionable" but don't really have any work to do on the go, the ipad does the job.

You are being silly. I assure you i didn't buy my ipad to "look fashionable." Nor did most people I know. We bought it because we wanted:

1) lightweight, small, easy to travel with (e.g. good for an airplane tray, easy to get through security, easy to lug around)

2) always-connected, without a contract (particularly when it was $30 and you could turn it off and on)

3) book reader for airplanes and airport terminals

4) movie player (for airplanes and airport terminals)

5) music player (ditto)

6) first class web browser for enterprise web sites, support for vpn, etc.

7) excellent attachment viewing

8) excellent email client

9) cheap

10) super battery life

11) light document editing (for review and comment)

For $500-$700 I can't get all that outside the iPad. I either have something heavier, or worse battery, or I have to deal with a usb stick and either more expensive data charges or a contract, with a form factor that is worse for its intended use (a tablet is much better for reading books, viewing docs, surfing the web, etc.)
 
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Yes. I'm still on the $30. And if the class action turns out well, maybe more of us will be. In any even, $25 for 2GB beats what verizon was charging me for the usb stick i used to use (I now use a $40/unlimited mifi from virgin mobile when I need to).



Believe it or not, it's quite possible to travel within the united states. In fact, here's a little shocking statistic: most business travel for U.S. businesses is within the united states.



I inflated costs by $25? I said it costs from $100-$200 for a stick without a contract. I think most sticks cost in that range, but if a single example where I was off by $25 makes me a liar...



You are being silly. I assure you i didn't buy my ipad to "look fashionable." Nor did most people I know. We bought it because we wanted:

1) lightweight, small, easy to travel with (e.g. good for an airplane tray, easy to get through security, easy to lug around)

2) always-connected, without a contract (particularly when it was $30 and you could turn it off and on)

3) book reader for airplanes and airport terminals

4) movie player (for airplanes and airport terminals)

5) music player (ditto)

6) first class web browser for enterprise web sites, support for vpn, etc.

7) excellent attachment viewing

8) excellent email client

9) cheap

10) super battery life

11) light document editing (for review and comment)

For $500-$700 I can't get all that outside the iPad. I either have something heavier, or worse battery, or I have to deal with a usb stick and either more expensive data charges or a contract, with a form factor that is worse for its intended use (a tablet is much better for reading books, viewing docs, surfing the web, etc.)

Uh, so you're right if they win the class action suit? Gotcha. Maybe you should just admit you were wrong on that one.

All you're doing is stating the capabilities of the ipad then saying that's what people's requirements are. What a joke. Look up "cognitive dissonance". The fact is that real people, with real requirements can't do real work with a touchscreen device. If you can't do useful stuff on it then it's a toy or a fashion accessory. The advantages you state for the ipad, the portability, low cost, battery life, connectivity and the capabilities, such as reading or listening to music, can be done with a small laptop like the MBA, but also lots of other things that the ipad can't. Things like reading in an airplane are actually harder with the ipad because you have to hold it up manually (making it feel quite heavy) or prop it up.

Most people I've seen with the ipad do the same thing people do with the ipod touch, listen to music and watch movies, which goes to the fact that it's a just a larger ipod. They usually look pretty smug, which is what makes me think they're pretentious, or they believe Apple's marketing drivel: "a magical device".
 
Uh, so you're right if they win the class action suit? Gotcha. Maybe you should just admit you were wrong on that one.

what are you talking about? You said the ipad fits no one's requirements and is merely a status symbol. I pointed out how it fits my requirements. One way it fits my requirements is that it requires NO CONTRACT for 3G access, unlike most every other device (yes, I admit this may be a U.S. issue only, but I'm in the U.S.). The only way to get no contract with other devices is typically $50-$60 a month for 2-5 GB. The iPad remains a far superior deal. Further, you need to add at least $75 (per your post) to the price of non-iPads for the privilege of contract free 3G, so that needs to be taken into account in price comparisons. Even comparing currently-available plans, the iPad at $25/month, 2GB no contract, is a good deal.

All you're doing is stating the capabilities of the ipad then saying that's what people's requirements are. What a joke. Look up "cognitive dissonance".

Your reading comprehension seems lacking. I talk about my requirements and those similarly situated. . Again, you are the one who claims the iPad serves no market. I am talking about at least one set of requirements that is fulfilled by iPad.

The fact is that real people, with real requirements can't do real work with a touchscreen device. If you can't do useful stuff on it then it's a toy or a fashion accessory.

I'm pretty sure I do more useful stuff on my iPad than you do on whatever you use as a computing device.

The advantages you state for the ipad, the portability, low cost, battery life, connectivity and the capabilities, such as reading or listening to music, can be done with a small laptop like the MBA, but also lots of other things that the ipad can't. Things like reading in an airplane are actually harder with the ipad because you have to hold it up manually (making it feel quite heavy) or prop it up.

Show me the $800 device with 2GB per month 3G for $25, that weighs the same or less than an iPad, and that has the battery life of an iPad.

And I used to carry my MBP on airplane flights. iPad is much easier. Takes less space, I can lay it flat on my tray, and don't have to wrestle it out of the overhead and worry that the guy in front of me is going to recline into it. I also don't have to take it out of my bag to get through security, and I can use it the entire flight across country and still have more than 50% battery when I land.

Most people I've seen with the ipad do the same thing people do with the ipod touch, listen to music and watch movies, which goes to the fact that it's a just a larger ipod. They usually look pretty smug, which is what makes me think they're pretentious, or they believe Apple's marketing drivel: "a magical device".

Obviously your feelings of inadequacy are leading you to project.
 
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