Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
what are you talking about? You said the ipad fits no one's requirements and is merely a status symbol. I pointed out how it fits my requirements. One way it fits my requirements is that it requires NO CONTRACT for 3G access, unlike most every other device (yes, I admit this may be a U.S. issue only, but I'm in the U.S.). The only way to get no contract with other devices is typically $50-$60 a month for 2-5 GB. The iPad remains a far superior deal. Further, you need to add at least $75 (per your post) to the price of non-iPads for the privilege of contract free 3G, so that needs to be taken into account in price comparisons. Even comparing currently-available plans, the iPad at $25/month, 2GB no contract, is a good deal.



Your reading comprehension seems lacking. I talk about my requirements and those similarly situated. . Again, you are the one who claims the iPad serves no market. I am talking about at least one set of requirements that is fulfilled by iPad.



I'm pretty sure I do more useful stuff on my iPad than you do on whatever you use as a computing device.



Show me the $800 device with 2GB per month 3G for $25, that weighs the same or less than an iPad, and that has the battery life of an iPad.

And I used to carry my MBP on airplane flights. iPad is much easier. Takes less space, I can lay it flat on my tray, and don't have to wrestle it out of the overhead and worry that the guy in front of me is going to recline into it. I also don't have to take it out of my bag to get through security, and I can use it the entire flight across country and still have more than 50% battery when I land.



Obviously your feelings of inadequacy are leading you to project.

No, the issue is what is the better machine given the need for a small and portable computer.

3G isn't required, it's easy to get by with WiFi and if you really need it it's possible. This is what I mean, you're just saying "oh you need this and the ipad has it so the ipad is the superior choice". You're argument that it costs extra is empty anyway - it costs extra on the ipad too.

Most people need to edit a Word document or Excel spreadsheet, you can't do that. Most people need to run a Windows application at least sometimes, you can't do that. You can't type a lot of text quickly which is what almost everyone needs to do. You can't do any sort of graphics editing such as a details diagram, and floor plan or anything other than finger-painting.

The point is you don't get very much at all for your money with the ipad, and it's not practical for most people who need use a computer on the move, thus my point about it being a toy.

And nice to see you making an ad-hominem argument, the sure sign of someone who can't come up with an argument relevant to the actual topic. Attacking me instead of my argument is sort of giving up isn't it?
 
I really haven't heard any arguments as to why the ipad will get more popular...It's over-hyped and set to fade away long term.

The sales figures and production backlog aren't argument enough?

100 million-plus unit sales by 2012 is not my idea of a "passing fad".

And hey, if it only ships a half-billion units or so by the time it "fades away" in the "long term", I am sure Apple will be okay with that. *shrug*
 
The sales figures and production backlog aren't argument enough?

100 million-plus unit sales by 2012 is not my idea of a "passing fad".

And hey, if it only ships a half-billion units or so by the time it "fades away" in the "long term", I am sure Apple will be okay with that. *shrug*

Well if you believe that sort of BS that's your problem. Meanwhile the facts state 3.27m (see below) to July 21. Just because they produced too little to date doesn't mean they're going to sell 100m. I can assume the 500m figure just the product of an addled mind. Maybe you meant 100m+ by 2120? That might work.

http://ipod.about.com/od/ipadmodelsandterms/f/ipad-sales-to-date.htm
 
Well if you believe that sort of BS that's your problem. Meanwhile the facts state 3.27m (see below) to July 21.

And another 4.29 million were sold in the fourth quarter per Apple, so that makes 7.56 million so far in calendar year 2010 with Christmas still to come.
 
And another 4.29 million were sold in the fourth quarter per Apple, so that makes 7.56 million so far in calendar year 2010 with Christmas still to come.

Hmm. 3m per quater is 12m. So you think that they're going to increase their sales by around a factor of 10 in around 12 months? just goes to show that ipad owners will believe anything. Some "magical" sales forecasts to go with your "magical and revolutionary" device.
 
So you think that they're going to increase their sales by around a factor of 10 in around 12 months?

iSupply (sic) does, as they keep ramping the number higher with every update. I guess we can re-open this thread at the end of 2012 and see who was more accurate.

just goes to show that ipad owners will believe anything. Some "magical" sales forecasts to go with your "magical and revolutionary" device.

I am as yet not an iPad owner (waiting for the next spec).

And for someone who has taken others to task for ad hominem attacks against yourself, you certainly engage in making them against others a great deal. :rolleyes:
 
So, I'm driving to school. Stopped at a long red light. Choice: do I open my "instant-on" MBA --flip open the display and start surfing the net; or, do I pull out my iPad and do the same thing: or, do I pull out my iPhone and do the same thing?

It's a no brainer: it's the iPad or iPhone at a red light. I prefer the iPad.

It would be really geeky to be behind the wheel and looking at a laptop, no matter how cool. But an iPad behind the wheel -- no problem.

That is the most ridiculous example I've seen. Each machine has its place but deciding based on which one is best at a red light is laughable, at best.

All you're doing is stating the capabilities of the ipad then saying that's what people's requirements are. What a joke. Look up "cognitive dissonance". The fact is that real people, with real requirements can't do real work with a touchscreen device. If you can't do useful stuff on it then it's a toy or a fashion accessory. The advantages you state for the ipad, the portability, low cost, battery life, connectivity and the capabilities, such as reading or listening to music, can be done with a small laptop like the MBA, but also lots of other things that the ipad can't. Things like reading in an airplane are actually harder with the ipad because you have to hold it up manually (making it feel quite heavy) or prop it up.

Most people I've seen with the ipad do the same thing people do with the ipod touch, listen to music and watch movies, which goes to the fact that it's a just a larger ipod. They usually look pretty smug, which is what makes me think they're pretentious, or they believe Apple's marketing drivel: "a magical device".

The iPad gets 10 hours of battery life. The 11.6" MBA gets 5.
You have obviously never used an iPad with your insistence that you can't do anything useful on it.
Most iPad cases will prop it up easily.

No, the issue is what is the better machine given the need for a small and portable computer.

3G isn't required, it's easy to get by with WiFi and if you really need it it's possible. This is what I mean, you're just saying "oh you need this and the ipad has it so the ipad is the superior choice". You're argument that it costs extra is empty anyway - it costs extra on the ipad too.

Most people need to edit a Word document or Excel spreadsheet, you can't do that. Most people need to run a Windows application at least sometimes, you can't do that. You can't type a lot of text quickly which is what almost everyone needs to do. You can't do any sort of graphics editing such as a details diagram, and floor plan or anything other than finger-painting.

The point is you don't get very much at all for your money with the ipad, and it's not practical for most people who need use a computer on the move, thus my point about it being a toy.

And nice to see you making an ad-hominem argument, the sure sign of someone who can't come up with an argument relevant to the actual topic. Attacking me instead of my argument is sort of giving up isn't it?

The idea that you can easily get by with WiFi is the most ridiculous statement for many users. Do I use WiFi most of the time? Sure. Are there plenty of instances when I need to get online when WiFi isn't available? Abso-frickin-lutely. And if I didn't have access via 3G then I would be UNABLE to work and I would be MUCH less productive. Oh but that's right. According to you it isn't possible for me to be productive on an iPad :rolleyes:

Most people don't need to edit a Word document or Excel spreadsheet. However, when I do need to do that I can do it in either Pages, Numbers, or Quickoffice on my iPad. It works just great. And there are other options as well.

Most people DO NOT need to run a Windows application at least sometimes. You are utterly ridiculously wrong on that one. But if I really needed to there are plenty of remote access apps that will give me access to a Mac or PC.

I can type a lot of text quickly on my iPad. Sorry you're not capable. That doesn't mean that other people aren't capable too.

Perhaps you should take a look at OmniGraffle for iPad, or any number of similar apps before you list the things you can't do on an iPad. You're making yourself look really foolish now.

You are really clueless as to what an iPad is capable of. To anyone that owns one you look downright silly and I for one wish you would stop spouting off at the mouth about something which you know absolutely nothing about.

Hmm. 3m per quater is 12m. So you think that they're going to increase their sales by around a factor of 10 in around 12 months? just goes to show that ipad owners will believe anything. Some "magical" sales forecasts to go with your "magical and revolutionary" device.

Looks like you aren't good at math either. 3m for the first quarter included a month of WiFi only, and two months of them only being available in the US. They are adding production capacity and countries all the time. By the time 2010 is finished they will easily have sold 15m and that will not be a full year by any measure. So that leaves two full years where they will easily be able to sell 40m+ per year. The iPad is the fastest selling non-phone electronic device in the history of electronic devices. As it gets into more people's hands and other people see it in the wild that will only serve to spur sales on at an even faster rate. The bottom line is that once people get these in their hands they are even more impressed with them than they thought they would be. I know a group of about 15 people that were recently given them at work and when they first got them their reaction was, "why do I need a big Palm Pilot?" These are not tech people and they did not understand the appeal or the use cases for the iPad. Just a couple of months later EVERY single one of them is in love with their iPad and each has found different uses for it aside from the standard email, calendar, and Web browsing.

I can't imagine being without mine now. I carry it with me every time I leave my office where before I would carry a pen and legal pad and I'm much more productive because of it. It weighs only 1.5 lbs! I can just slip it under my arm and barely even know it's there. And when I'm home I never even take my MBP out of my bag. I only use my iPad when at the house.
 
iSupply (sic) does, as they keep ramping the number higher with every update. I guess we can re-open this thread at the end of 2012 and see who was more accurate.

I am as yet not an iPad owner (waiting for the next spec).

And for someone who has taken others to task for ad hominem attacks against yourself, you certainly engage in making them against others a great deal. :rolleyes:

Ok replace, "ipod owners " with "ipod boosters". As I said, if you want to believe that BS that's your problem.

As usual, I have to save you from your own ignorance. An "ad-hominem" argument is basically "you're wrong because you are x", such as suggesting I'm projecting my own "inadequacies". Saying "you are wrong because of facts x, also you are a dimwit" is not ad hominem. "ad-hominem" is a logical fallacy, not abuse.

That is the most ridiculous example I've seen. Each machine has its place but deciding based on which one is best at a red light is laughable, at best.



The iPad gets 10 hours of battery life. The 11.6" MBA gets 5.
You have obviously never used an iPad with your insistence that you can't do anything useful on it.
Most iPad cases will prop it up easily.



The idea that you can easily get by with WiFi is the most ridiculous statement for many users. Do I use WiFi most of the time? Sure. Are there plenty of instances when I need to get online when WiFi isn't available? Abso-frickin-lutely. And if I didn't have access via 3G then I would be UNABLE to work and I would be MUCH less productive. Oh but that's right. According to you it isn't possible for me to be productive on an iPad :rolleyes:

Most people don't need to edit a Word document or Excel spreadsheet. However, when I do need to do that I can do it in either Pages, Numbers, or Quickoffice on my iPad. It works just great. And there are other options as well.

Most people DO NOT need to run a Windows application at least sometimes. You are utterly ridiculously wrong on that one. But if I really needed to there are plenty of remote access apps that will give me access to a Mac or PC.

I can type a lot of text quickly on my iPad. Sorry you're not capable. That doesn't mean that other people aren't capable too.

Perhaps you should take a look at OmniGraffle for iPad, or any number of similar apps before you list the things you can't do on an iPad. You're making yourself look really foolish now.

You are really clueless as to what an iPad is capable of. To anyone that owns one you look downright silly and I for one wish you would stop spouting off at the mouth about something which you know absolutely nothing about.



Looks like you aren't good at math either. 3m for the first quarter included a month of WiFi only, and two months of them only being available in the US. They are adding production capacity and countries all the time. By the time 2010 is finished they will easily have sold 15m and that will not be a full year by any measure. So that leaves two full years where they will easily be able to sell 40m+ per year. The iPad is the fastest selling non-phone electronic device in the history of electronic devices. As it gets into more people's hands and other people see it in the wild that will only serve to spur sales on at an even faster rate. The bottom line is that once people get these in their hands they are even more impressed with them than they thought they would be. I know a group of about 15 people that were recently given them at work and when they first got them their reaction was, "why do I need a big Palm Pilot?" These are not tech people and they did not understand the appeal or the use cases for the iPad. Just a couple of months later EVERY single one of them is in love with their iPad and each has found different uses for it aside from the standard email, calendar, and Web browsing.

I can't imagine being without mine now. I carry it with me every time I leave my office where before I would carry a pen and legal pad and I'm much more productive because of it. It weighs only 1.5 lbs! I can just slip it under my arm and barely even know it's there. And when I'm home I never even take my MBP out of my bag. I only use my iPad when at the house.


Ugh, another rabid ipad user, deep in denial. How convenient that the things that the ipad can't do (run windows software) aren't really required. And suggesting you can edit Excel spreadsheets in Numbers proves that you don't actually do any real work on your ipad and that's it's a toy. Those programs might be able to open an Excel spreadsheet, maybe, but will lose formatting and information, often making them completely unusable. As I said, people who actually work. You think that just because you can get some things done on an ipad, if you have heaps of free times and are willing to jump through endless hoops that the ipad is useful. It's not. It would be great to have two people, a set of common tasks such as reworking a spreadsheet with an ipad up against an MBA 11.6. Of course it hasn't been done because it's a foregone conclusion, the ipad is hopeless against a real laptop. You can do almost anything with a laptop, including adding 3G. ipads don't even have a USB port!

My math is fine, just because you for some reason think that an ipad without 3G isn't an ipad doesn't change the numbers. And why you think quoting more speculation somehow makes any difference to actual units sold to date is beyond me. Selling 100m units in 2011 or anything like it is deeply delusional, and makes me thing it will be time to short Apple stock soon.

Your righteous indignation and condescending attitude just sums up the ipad user: arrogant, pretentious and egotistical. Throw in ignorant and in denial and there you have the ipad market in a nutshell. People who believe their ipad is "magical" and "revolutionary" deserve to be relieved of their $500-$700.
 
Ok replace, "ipod owners " with "ipod boosters". As I said, if you want to believe that BS that's your problem.

As usual, I have to save you from your own ignorance. An "ad-hominem" argument is basically "you're wrong because you are x", such as suggesting I'm projecting my own "inadequacies". Saying "you are wrong because of facts x, also you are a dimwit" is not ad hominem. "ad-hominem" is a logical fallacy, not abuse.




Ugh, another rabid ipad user, deep in denial. How convenient that the things that the ipad can't do (run windows software) aren't really required. And suggesting you can edit Excel spreadsheets in Numbers proves that you don't actually do any real work on your ipad and that's it's a toy. Those programs might be able to open an Excel spreadsheet, maybe, but will lose formatting and information, often making them completely unusable. As I said, people who actually work. You think that just because you can get some things done on an ipad, if you have heaps of free times and are willing to jump through endless hoops that the ipad is useful. It's not. It would be great to have two people, a set of common tasks such as reworking a spreadsheet with an ipad up against an MBA 11.6. Of course it hasn't been done because it's a foregone conclusion, the ipad is hopeless against a real laptop. You can do almost anything with a laptop, including adding 3G. ipads don't even have a USB port!

My math is fine, just because you for some reason think that an ipad without 3G isn't an ipad doesn't change the numbers. And why you think quoting more speculation somehow makes any difference to actual units sold to date is beyond me. Selling 100m units in 2011 or anything like it is deeply delusional, and makes me thing it will be time to short Apple stock soon.

Your righteous indignation and condescending attitude just sums up the ipad user: arrogant, pretentious and egotistical. Throw in ignorant and in denial and there you have the ipad market in a nutshell. People who believe their ipad is "magical" and "revolutionary" deserve to be relieved of their $500-$700.

Since you have no idea what the definition of ad hominem is please allow me to help you out.

ad hominem |ˈad ˈhämənəm|
adverb & adjective
1 (of an argument or reaction) arising from or appealing to the emotions and not reason or logic.
• attacking an opponent’s motives or character rather than the policy or position they maintain : vicious ad hominem attacks.

It is a personal attack instead of a logical argument. Here is where you went into an ad hominem attack...
Your righteous indignation and condescending attitude just sums up the ipad user: arrogant, pretentious and egotistical. Throw in ignorant and in denial and there you have the ipad market in a nutshell.

Anyone reading this thread that has or has used an iPad for more than just a few minutes knows without a doubt that you have not. Numbers, Quickoffice, and Documents To Go ALL not only keep the formatting, information, formulas, and everything else you need in your spreadsheet but they allow you to manipulate the data, change the formatting, sort, and adjust the spreadsheet in any way you see fit. Numbers has a gorgeous and extremely useful touch interface. It slides up a different keyboard based on what type of information you need to enter: numbers, text, dates, etc. When you claim that they are not useful at all you only show your extreme ignorance on this topic.

Finally, this isn't a question of one machine for every job. There is an old saying that goes something like this, "the best camera is the one that you have with you." What it means is that it would be nice to have the greatest SLR with all of the megapixels and lenses that we need to take the best picture possible but it simply isn't practical to carry that camera and all of its accessories with us wherever we go. The same holds true for my MBP and most laptops. This is what makes the iPad a great device to own in the same way that a pocket camera is great to own even when you also own the massive SLR. It is so light that you can easily carry it with you EVERYWHERE. And so the best computing device is the one that you have with you. The only MacBook that even comes close to me wanting to carry it around everywhere is the 11.6" Air. And while I can see it serving a ton of people very well, for me the price for that processor/storage/memory combination is just not worth it. If I were to get an Air it would most likely be the 13" model and then I'd be much more likely to carry the iPad around. So my next MBP will very likely be a 15" model and I'll use the iPad for all the times when I don't need a full-fledge pro machine but having a computing device would be great. And in my life those times are divided about equally.

Just because the iPad does not make sense for everyone does not mean it doesn't make sense for many people. You sound ridiculous with your constant bashing of it, ESPECIALLY when it becomes more and more obvious that you have no personal experience with the device.
 
Since you have no idea what the definition of ad hominem is please allow me to help you out.



It is a personal attack instead of a logical argument. Here is where you went into an ad hominem attack...

Anyone reading this thread that has or has used an iPad for more than just a few minutes knows without a doubt that you have not. Numbers, Quickoffice, and Documents To Go ALL not only keep the formatting, information, formulas, and everything else you need in your spreadsheet but they allow you to manipulate the data, change the formatting, sort, and adjust the spreadsheet in any way you see fit. Numbers has a gorgeous and extremely useful touch interface. It slides up a different keyboard based on what type of information you need to enter: numbers, text, dates, etc. When you claim that they are not useful at all you only show your extreme ignorance on this topic.

Finally, this isn't a question of one machine for every job. There is an old saying that goes something like this, "the best camera is the one that you have with you." What it means is that it would be nice to have the greatest SLR with all of the megapixels and lenses that we need to take the best picture possible but it simply isn't practical to carry that camera and all of its accessories with us wherever we go. The same holds true for my MBP and most laptops. This is what makes the iPad a great device to own in the same way that a pocket camera is great to own even when you also own the massive SLR. It is so light that you can easily carry it with you EVERYWHERE. And so the best computing device is the one that you have with you. The only MacBook that even comes close to me wanting to carry it around everywhere is the 11.6" Air. And while I can see it serving a ton of people very well, for me the price for that processor/storage/memory combination is just not worth it. If I were to get an Air it would most likely be the 13" model and then I'd be much more likely to carry the iPad around. So my next MBP will very likely be a 15" model and I'll use the iPad for all the times when I don't need a full-fledge pro machine but having a computing device would be great. And in my life those times are divided about equally.

Just because the iPad does not make sense for everyone does not mean it doesn't make sense for many people. You sound ridiculous with your constant bashing of it, ESPECIALLY when it becomes more and more obvious that you have no personal experience with the device.

You should try researching the meaning of that phrase a bit more carefully. You miss the point entirely. You take a loose dictionary definition and then apply it to what you think it means. Try wikipedia instead < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem >:

An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), also known as argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.

Your quote is me making a statement about you and your sort, a completely valid one. My arguments only reference facts, not your disabilities. They might be in the same post, but what do you expect me to do, start a mew thread to talk about you and ipad users?

I'm glad you've come around to my argument in this respect: the MBA 11.6 is the far superior choice for portable machines. You say you can edit spreadsheets, but so what? You can't edit Excel spreadsheets and use them the way they're meant to or other office documents. Hell I can edit Excel and Word documents on my Nokia phone by your standard, which is much more portable, has better battery life, 3G, etc, doesn't mean I can do real work on my phone. I can take my MBA anywhere too.

You are trying to tell me that the ipad is useful for real work when it's not. It depends on using stripped down software with limited functionality and a limited interface. You quote "beautiful" as a feature which confirms my point: people only buy the ipad if they are looking for a fashion accessory or are pretentious.

The ipad doesn't come any near the functionality of a laptop like the MBA 11.6. Your camera comparison is weak. The MBA 11.6 is comparable in price but does so many things that the ipad doesn't, can't and never will. Two cameras of differing quality with a big difference in price still take pictures in a similar way.

I know you have difficulty understanding complicated ideas, so here it is in nice simple terms:

The ipad does about 10% of what a MBA 11.6 does, at 75% the cost with similar portability.

Your plaintive cries of "bashing" of your beloved ipad lay bare your position. You're the child with the favoured new toy who just can't handle criticism of it, it doesn't matter what it is the fact that you love it is all that matters.

Meanwhile, people who have invested in a MBA 11.6 or another small laptop instead don't really care what people say, they just go back to getting stuff done instead of dealing with that nagging feeling that they've been taken for a ride. Enjoy your "magical" device.
 
You should try researching the meaning of that phrase a bit more carefully. You miss the point entirely. You take a loose dictionary definition and then apply it to what you think it means. Try wikipedia instead < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem >:

An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), also known as argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.

Your quote is me making a statement about you and your sort, a completely valid one. My arguments only reference facts, not your disabilities. They might be in the same post, but what do you expect me to do, start a mew thread to talk about you and ipad users?

I'm glad you've come around to my argument in this respect: the MBA 11.6 is the far superior choice for portable machines. You say you can edit spreadsheets, but so what? You can't edit Excel spreadsheets and use them the way they're meant to or other office documents. Hell I can edit Excel and Word documents on my Nokia phone by your standard, which is much more portable, has better battery life, 3G, etc, doesn't mean I can do real work on my phone. I can take my MBA anywhere too.

You are trying to tell me that the ipad is useful for real work when it's not. It depends on using stripped down software with limited functionality and a limited interface. You quote "beautiful" as a feature which confirms my point: people only buy the ipad if they are looking for a fashion accessory or are pretentious.

The ipad doesn't come any near the functionality of a laptop like the MBA 11.6. Your camera comparison is weak. The MBA 11.6 is comparable in price but does so many things that the ipad doesn't, can't and never will. Two cameras of differing quality with a big difference in price still take pictures in a similar way.

I know you have difficulty understanding complicated ideas, so here it is in nice simple terms:

The ipad does about 10% of what a MBA 11.6 does, at 75% the cost with similar portability.

Your plaintive cries of "bashing" of your beloved ipad lay bare your position. You're the child with the favoured new toy who just can't handle criticism of it, it doesn't matter what it is the fact that you love it is all that matters.

Meanwhile, people who have invested in a MBA 11.6 or another small laptop instead don't really care what people say, they just go back to getting stuff done instead of dealing with that nagging feeling that they've been taken for a ride. Enjoy your "magical" device.

The definition you quoted PROVES MY POINT. You are saying that my arguments are not valid because of personal derogatory characteristics you are assigning to me and other iPad users. Your statements could not be a clearer example of an ad hominem attack if Webster himself were writing them for the dictionary.

This is the last time I'll respond to you because you are quite clearly someone who has an off the wall hatred of a device that no one is telling you that you should purchase. In fact, this response is really meant more for other readers of this thread than it is for you because I know that you won't read it in an unbiased way.

  1. You have used no facts at all in any of your arguments. You have used inaccuracies based on what you THINK an iPad is capable or not capable of doing. They aren't based in reality at all.
  2. I haven't come around to any argument you are making. In fact, quite the opposite. What I've said is that the MBA is an inferior machine for my needs. It does not have the touch interface that makes the iPad eminently useful as a portable device that allows me to do what I need very quickly and move on and yet it also does not have the power of a full-blown MBP. So it serves neither need that I have.
  3. Let me bring you back to reality. I actually USE an iPad EVERY DAY for real work. I use it at work for up to half of my days work. Whenever I am not in my office I carry my iPad with me and it allows me to get done whatever I need to do while I'm away from my desk. When I'm at my desk I use my MBP. Period, end of story. You can make claims all day long about what you THINK about an iPad but don't sit there and tell me that I don't get work done on it when I do. I would love to know what you do for a living that you can't imagine a scenario where the iPad would be useful for people with certain types of jobs.
  4. The MBA is NOT comparible in price. The iPad starts at $499. The MBA at $999. The last time I checked double the price was NOT comparable. Perhaps you are using some new math of which my colleagues and I are not aware. Perhaps I'll ask my lead Math faculty tomorrow.
  5. Here is the part that you will never understand until you actually use an iPad. The iPad does many things that the MBA doesn't do as well. You can not buy a MBA and do everything that an iPad is capable of.
  6. I also noticed that a lot of your argument is that I'm defending the iPad because I spent so much money on it and it is my favored new toy, etc. etc. Well then let's see how this little tidbit fits into your narrative. I did not purchase my iPad. It was given to me by my employer to use for work as I see fit. This is in addition to the computer that they also provide me. So it cost me nothing and yet I use it for about 50% of my computing.
  7. Your statement about being able to edit Excel documents on your Nokia phone PROVES that you have never used an iPad. I had the same app (Quickoffice) on my iPhone long before I had an iPad. I only used it for viewing MS Office files on the iPhone because the screen is simply too small to waste my time trying to edit the files. The iPad's screen is PLENTY big to work with spreadsheets, documents, outlines, or any number of things.
  8. When I talk about how great the UI is for the iPad the best example I can give of that is the application OmniFocus. I have this application on my Mac. When it came out for the iPhone I purchased it there and now I have it on my iPad. The iPad version has, without a doubt, the nicest and easiest to use interface of all three applications. In fact, in designing the UI for the iPad version the developers at The Omni Group are changing the way they look at developing the UI for Mac applications.
 
The definition you quoted PROVES MY POINT. You are saying that my arguments are not valid because of personal derogatory characteristics you are assigning to me and other iPad users. Your statements could not be a clearer example of an ad hominem attack if Webster himself were writing them for the dictionary.

This is the last time I'll respond to you because you are quite clearly someone who has an off the wall hatred of a device that no one is telling you that you should purchase. In fact, this response is really meant more for other readers of this thread than it is for you because I know that you won't read it in an unbiased way.

  1. You have used no facts at all in any of your arguments. You have used inaccuracies based on what you THINK an iPad is capable or not capable of doing. They aren't based in reality at all.
  2. I haven't come around to any argument you are making. In fact, quite the opposite. What I've said is that the MBA is an inferior machine for my needs. It does not have the touch interface that makes the iPad eminently useful as a portable device that allows me to do what I need very quickly and move on and yet it also does not have the power of a full-blown MBP. So it serves neither need that I have.
  3. Let me bring you back to reality. I actually USE an iPad EVERY DAY for real work. I use it at work for up to half of my days work. Whenever I am not in my office I carry my iPad with me and it allows me to get done whatever I need to do while I'm away from my desk. When I'm at my desk I use my MBP. Period, end of story. You can make claims all day long about what you THINK about an iPad but don't sit there and tell me that I don't get work done on it when I do. I would love to know what you do for a living that you can't imagine a scenario where the iPad would be useful for people with certain types of jobs.
  4. The MBA is NOT comparible in price. The iPad starts at $499. The MBA at $999. The last time I checked double the price was NOT comparable. Perhaps you are using some new math of which my colleagues and I are not aware. Perhaps I'll ask my lead Math faculty tomorrow.
  5. Here is the part that you will never understand until you actually use an iPad. The iPad does many things that the MBA doesn't do as well. You can not buy a MBA and do everything that an iPad is capable of.
  6. I also noticed that a lot of your argument is that I'm defending the iPad because I spent so much money on it and it is my favored new toy, etc. etc. Well then let's see how this little tidbit fits into your narrative. I did not purchase my iPad. It was given to me by my employer to use for work as I see fit. This is in addition to the computer that they also provide me. So it cost me nothing and yet I use it for about 50% of my computing.
  7. Your statement about being able to edit Excel documents on your Nokia phone PROVES that you have never used an iPad. I had the same app (Quickoffice) on my iPhone long before I had an iPad. I only used it for viewing MS Office files on the iPhone because the screen is simply too small to waste my time trying to edit the files. The iPad's screen is PLENTY big to work with spreadsheets, documents, outlines, or any number of things.
  8. When I talk about how great the UI is for the iPad the best example I can give of that is the application OmniFocus. I have this application on my Mac. When it came out for the iPhone I purchased it there and now I have it on my iPad. The iPad version has, without a doubt, the nicest and easiest to use interface of all three applications. In fact, in designing the UI for the iPad version the developers at The Omni Group are changing the way they look at developing the UI for Mac applications.

Ugh. How many times do I have to explain it? Ad hominem is a form of argument, not a form of speech. An ad hominem argument trys to prove a point by discrediting the speaker. I'd don't try to prove my point using attacks on you. I use the facts. I don't hate anything, I just think the ipad is a poor choice, a poor product. Hate is irrational, evaluation is objective.

You say I don't use facts but I use nothing but facts and specific examples, you're the one who uses wishy-washy arguments trying to prove that the ipad is the better choice. And now you make stupid claims like this instead of answering my points like how you think you can't use a full-blow spreadsheet on an ipad like you can on a laptop.

You saying that "it suits you" or "it's what you like" or "it does what I want" or the fact that you do it every day means nothing. You can say anything that is not objective like that to try to prove you point. Fine, you're someone who is willing to torture themselves to use the ipad for something other than internet browsing, most normal people won't and can't d that because it makes no sense. Someone reading this can take nothing from someone like you does. Try to say something that applies to more than one person: yourself.

When you say an ipad and is not comparable in price you're right, you get much more for your money with an MBA 11.6. Do you think anyone is stupid enough to compare an $500 8GB ipad with a $1000 64GB MBA? Making dishonest comparisons doesn't help your cause.

Again with the ad hominem argument: you know nothing about who I am and what I do yet you know I haven't used an ipad: WRONG, there are ipads where I work and where I live, I have used them for weeks on and off.

Why don't you read what I post? I have used Quickoffice and it doesn't cut it in any way shape or form compared to real Excel. That is my point, you can use a MBA to run these programs, the ipad can't it's a joke and hopeless pretty toy.

Don't tell me what the ipad is for, because you don't know and you have no right to say. It's what who ever bought is wants to use it for. My point is that you can't do much of anything with it, and for not much more money you can get something much more useful, so unless you buy it to look pretentious or fashionable, it's not useful for someone who does work for a living and actually has a job to so. It being good for one app OmniFocus doesn't help everyone who needs to do something other than use OmniFocus. I Use OmniOutliner and I would basically get sacked if I tried to use OmniFocus on the ipad because it so slow for entering text and reorganising point. ipad by design is slow and clumsy. It's hopeless.
 
Which is better.....

Couch or Office Chair?

Well the office chair does more things - and creates a productive mood.
But the couch is more comfortable and relaxing.

But which one is better?
There's only one way to find out...
FIGHT!!

C.
 
Couch or Office Chair?

Well the office chair does more things - and creates a productive mood.
But the couch is more comfortable and relaxing.

But which one is better?
There's only one way to find out...
FIGHT!!

C.

You can't get real work done on a couch.
 
Ugh. How many times do I have to explain it? Ad hominem is a form of argument, not a form of speech. An ad hominem argument trys to prove a point by discrediting the speaker. I'd don't try to prove my point using attacks on you. I use the facts. I don't hate anything, I just think the ipad is a poor choice, a poor product. Hate is irrational, evaluation is objective.

You tell me. My guess is that you'll have to keep explaining it until you understand. Your "arguments" have not included any facts. They are simply comprised of you repeating that the iPad sucks and it isn't useful for anything. Those aren't facts. Those are your opinion. You then bolster your "arguments" with personal attacks on iPad owners. That is the exact definition that you keep posting. Your posts have been completely irrational and lacking in any objectivity. Just read further down and you will see that you're getting so heated that you are losing your ability to spell and write coherently.

You say I don't use facts but I use nothing but facts and specific examples, you're the one who uses wishy-washy arguments trying to prove that the ipad is the better choice. And now you make stupid claims like this instead of answering my points like how you think you can't use a full-blow spreadsheet on an ipad like you can on a laptop.

Please, list the specific examples that are actually based in fact and I will be happy to read them. You have not done this thus far. And you're proving my point in this very paragraph. First I have to sift through your typos and assume that you meant to say that I think I CAN use a FULL-BLOWN spreadsheet on an iPad like you can on a laptop. I can and DO access a full-blown spreadsheet. Just in the past month I've been using and working with spreadsheets with 700+ rows, multiple worksheets, etc. I have them on my iPad right now and I actually HAVE been working with them. This is a fact and not something that you can dispute in your ridiculously dismissive manner. You start to really emulate your forum name when you continually attempt to respond in a manner that is the equivalent of you holding your hands over your hears and yelling, "nah nah nah nah, I can't hear you!"

You saying that "it suits you" or "it's what you like" or "it does what I want" or the fact that you do it every day means nothing. You can say anything that is not objective like that to try to prove you point. Fine, you're someone who is willing to torture themselves to use the ipad for something other than internet browsing, most normal people won't and can't d that because it makes no sense. Someone reading this can take nothing from someone like you does. Try to say something that applies to more than one person: yourself.

Are you clinically insane or is nutjob just your nickname? The fact that it does what I want means EVERYTHING. Performing the tasks I use an iPad for are the furthest thing from torturous. In fact, in almost every situation (> 80%) that I currently use my iPad in I would not have carried my MBP to prior to owning my iPad. So just having the iPad there makes my job easier because now I don't have to think about whether or not I might need access to certain files, emails, etc. I just grab it and go. If I end up not needing it then the fact that it doesn't weigh much more than a notebook means that there was no downside to bringing it. But when I do need it... that is when it becomes eminently useful. And in my previous posts I've stated how there are about two dozen people where I work that received them also. Most of these people did not see the point of the iPad when they first received it, kind of like you. However, you couldn't pry it away from them now. In fact, I was talking to one of them the other day and this person happens to be potentially moving to another state and job and one of the first things they said was that they're going to have to buy their own iPad now because they can't imagine being without it. That statement alone says more about how useful the damn iPad is than anything else that has been posted but of course you will flat out ignore it and act like this person is crazy or call them some other names in your next ad hominem attack.

When you say an ipad and is not comparable in price you're right, you get much more for your money with an MBA 11.6. Do you think anyone is stupid enough to compare an $500 8GB ipad with a $1000 64GB MBA? Making dishonest comparisons doesn't help your cause.

You get much more in YOUR OPINION. Specs alone do not determine whether or not a device is useful. And even if that were the case one of the most touted specs for a MBA and the reason why most people would purchase one is the weight. In that case you get much more with the iPad because it has a far superior spec on the weight. It also has longer battery life, a touchscreen, the option for built-in 3G, GPS, an app notification framework that can alert you even when the device is in sleep mode, the ability to be located with MobileMe, a better book reading experience, an accelerometer that is API accessible, the ability to be used live with navigation apps, and on and on. These are ALL things that the MBA can not do and yet you cling to the idea that this comparison only goes in one direction. Are there things that the MBA can do that an iPad can not? Sure. The fact that the opposite is true means that you can't make a case that buying the MBA would solve every iPad use case plus more. It simply isn't true and just another example of how you do not use facts in your arguments.

As far as the storage. First, the $499 iPad has 16GB of storage. I currently have the 32GB model and have 13.1GB free. And that is with me having plenty of documents, hundreds of songs, 1500 photos, 27 videos (including 4 full length movies), and well over 100 apps. 16GB is a lot of storage especially with the widespread use of things like DropBox, which is what most people with multiple computers use to share their data anyway.

Again with the ad hominem argument: you know nothing about who I am and what I do yet you know I haven't used an ipad: WRONG, there are ipads where I work and where I live, I have used them for weeks on and off.

Why don't you read what I post? I have used Quickoffice and it doesn't cut it in any way shape or form compared to real Excel. That is my point, you can use a MBA to run these programs, the ipad can't it's a joke and hopeless pretty toy.

I know for a fact that you have not used an iPad other than in passing. I know this because of the things you have posted. If you had used an iPad for more than just a few minutes here and there then you would not say half of the things you have said. Also, the simple fact is that an iPad off the shelf is not any more useful than an email and web surfing device. It becomes useful when you, the user, add the applications and files that allow you to do the work that you need to do. That is what makes an iPad such a great device. It becomes whatever you need it to be through the apps. If I need to access a book I can use any of a number of applications and my iPad becomes a book, or better than a book (depending on the app). If I need to work on a spreadsheet or word processing document I use Pages, Numbers, or Quickoffice and my iPad transforms into an interface for working with those documents. If I need access my files while I'm away from my desk I can use the DropBox app. If I need to edit and work on them I can access my Dropbox through the Quickoffice app. If I need to take notes in a meeting I use Outliner. If I need to book a flight, track a flight, or check on my travel arrangements there are plenty of apps to do that. Email, task management, the best web surfing experience, games and movies for downtime, etc. The iPad is a great device for so many things but that list is different for every user. This is why you are unqualified to speak on this topic. You don't own an iPad so you have not explored which apps would help you to do your job. You lack the requisite knowledge and experience with the device to make a claim as to whether it is good or bad. But that doesn't stop you from yelling at the top of your lungs that it is a joke and a hopeless pretty toy.

Does everything else in the universe revolve around you too? Does everything in this world only serve a purpose if it is useful to you? You are so full of conceit on this topic that it is pouring out of you.

Don't tell me what the ipad is for, because you don't know and you have no right to say. It's what who ever bought is wants to use it for. My point is that you can't do much of anything with it, and for not much more money you can get something much more useful, so unless you buy it to look pretentious or fashionable, it's not useful for someone who does work for a living and actually has a job to so.

You are incredible. Don't tell you what the iPad is for but in the VERY NEXT sentence you proceed to tell me what it is for. Are you dense? I do work for a living. I use the iPad EVERY DAY. It is very useful. Period.

It being good for one app OmniFocus doesn't help everyone who needs to do something other than use OmniFocus. I Use OmniOutliner and I would basically get sacked if I tried to use OmniFocus on the ipad because it so slow for entering text and reorganising point. ipad by design is slow and clumsy. It's hopeless.

I never said that. I put forth OmniFocus as an example of an app that is available on three platforms (Mac, iPhone, and iPad) and the iPad has the best UI and is the easiest to use, so much so that the developers are going to incorporate elements from the iPad UI into the next Mac version. This completely dismantles your argument about the iPad not being useful. In fact, this particular app is not only useful on the iPad but it is more useful than the Mac version.
 
Please, for the love of god, take the iPad discussion to an iPad thread or the iPad forum. Geez. :mad:

This is a Mac thread. For Macs. And discussing said Macs.
 
I take it you don't work in advertising or prostitution then?

C.

Ah, they're the same profession.

Anyway, it was a joke (an allusion to my other discussion). I actually do a lot of work lying on my bed with my laptop resting on my chest. Studies have shown people are more creative when they are lying down. I also have a nice Aeron which I sit in when I am doing something that requires a lot of focus.
 
Please, for the love of god, take the iPad discussion to an iPad thread or the iPad forum. Geez. :mad:

This is a Mac thread. For Macs. And discussing said Macs.

Why? It's a discussion of a MBA 11.6 versus an ipad, it's entirely on-topic. Try paying more attention next time.
 
You tell me. My guess is that you'll have to keep explaining it until you understand. Your "arguments" have not included any facts. They are simply comprised of you repeating that the iPad sucks and it isn't useful for anything. Those aren't facts. Those are your opinion. You then bolster your "arguments" with personal attacks on iPad owners. That is the exact definition that you keep posting. Your posts have been completely irrational and lacking in any objectivity. Just read further down and you will see that you're getting so heated that you are losing your ability to spell and write coherently.



Please, list the specific examples that are actually based in fact and I will be happy to read them. You have not done this thus far. And you're proving my point in this very paragraph. First I have to sift through your typos and assume that you meant to say that I think I CAN use a FULL-BLOWN spreadsheet on an iPad like you can on a laptop. I can and DO access a full-blown spreadsheet. Just in the past month I've been using and working with spreadsheets with 700+ rows, multiple worksheets, etc. I have them on my iPad right now and I actually HAVE been working with them. This is a fact and not something that you can dispute in your ridiculously dismissive manner. You start to really emulate your forum name when you continually attempt to respond in a manner that is the equivalent of you holding your hands over your hears and yelling, "nah nah nah nah, I can't hear you!"



Are you clinically insane or is nutjob just your nickname? The fact that it does what I want means EVERYTHING. Performing the tasks I use an iPad for are the furthest thing from torturous. In fact, in almost every situation (> 80%) that I currently use my iPad in I would not have carried my MBP to prior to owning my iPad. So just having the iPad there makes my job easier because now I don't have to think about whether or not I might need access to certain files, emails, etc. I just grab it and go. If I end up not needing it then the fact that it doesn't weigh much more than a notebook means that there was no downside to bringing it. But when I do need it... that is when it becomes eminently useful. And in my previous posts I've stated how there are about two dozen people where I work that received them also. Most of these people did not see the point of the iPad when they first received it, kind of like you. However, you couldn't pry it away from them now. In fact, I was talking to one of them the other day and this person happens to be potentially moving to another state and job and one of the first things they said was that they're going to have to buy their own iPad now because they can't imagine being without it. That statement alone says more about how useful the damn iPad is than anything else that has been posted but of course you will flat out ignore it and act like this person is crazy or call them some other names in your next ad hominem attack.



You get much more in YOUR OPINION. Specs alone do not determine whether or not a device is useful. And even if that were the case one of the most touted specs for a MBA and the reason why most people would purchase one is the weight. In that case you get much more with the iPad because it has a far superior spec on the weight. It also has longer battery life, a touchscreen, the option for built-in 3G, GPS, an app notification framework that can alert you even when the device is in sleep mode, the ability to be located with MobileMe, a better book reading experience, an accelerometer that is API accessible, the ability to be used live with navigation apps, and on and on. These are ALL things that the MBA can not do and yet you cling to the idea that this comparison only goes in one direction. Are there things that the MBA can do that an iPad can not? Sure. The fact that the opposite is true means that you can't make a case that buying the MBA would solve every iPad use case plus more. It simply isn't true and just another example of how you do not use facts in your arguments.

As far as the storage. First, the $499 iPad has 16GB of storage. I currently have the 32GB model and have 13.1GB free. And that is with me having plenty of documents, hundreds of songs, 1500 photos, 27 videos (including 4 full length movies), and well over 100 apps. 16GB is a lot of storage especially with the widespread use of things like DropBox, which is what most people with multiple computers use to share their data anyway.



I know for a fact that you have not used an iPad other than in passing. I know this because of the things you have posted. If you had used an iPad for more than just a few minutes here and there then you would not say half of the things you have said. Also, the simple fact is that an iPad off the shelf is not any more useful than an email and web surfing device. It becomes useful when you, the user, add the applications and files that allow you to do the work that you need to do. That is what makes an iPad such a great device. It becomes whatever you need it to be through the apps. If I need to access a book I can use any of a number of applications and my iPad becomes a book, or better than a book (depending on the app). If I need to work on a spreadsheet or word processing document I use Pages, Numbers, or Quickoffice and my iPad transforms into an interface for working with those documents. If I need access my files while I'm away from my desk I can use the DropBox app. If I need to edit and work on them I can access my Dropbox through the Quickoffice app. If I need to take notes in a meeting I use Outliner. If I need to book a flight, track a flight, or check on my travel arrangements there are plenty of apps to do that. Email, task management, the best web surfing experience, games and movies for downtime, etc. The iPad is a great device for so many things but that list is different for every user. This is why you are unqualified to speak on this topic. You don't own an iPad so you have not explored which apps would help you to do your job. You lack the requisite knowledge and experience with the device to make a claim as to whether it is good or bad. But that doesn't stop you from yelling at the top of your lungs that it is a joke and a hopeless pretty toy.

Does everything else in the universe revolve around you too? Does everything in this world only serve a purpose if it is useful to you? You are so full of conceit on this topic that it is pouring out of you.



You are incredible. Don't tell you what the iPad is for but in the VERY NEXT sentence you proceed to tell me what it is for. Are you dense? I do work for a living. I use the iPad EVERY DAY. It is very useful. Period.



I never said that. I put forth OmniFocus as an example of an app that is available on three platforms (Mac, iPhone, and iPad) and the iPad has the best UI and is the easiest to use, so much so that the developers are going to incorporate elements from the iPad UI into the next Mac version. This completely dismantles your argument about the iPad not being useful. In fact, this particular app is not only useful on the iPad but it is more useful than the Mac version.

God you write so much drivel. Lets boil it down really simply so you can't just try to talk it all away:

Can you use an Excel spreadsheet with running macros on an ipad, something that is very common in the business world? No.

Can you use photoshop on an ipad, something that is very common in the web and graphic design world? No.

Can you use SketchUp on the ipad, something that is very common in the design and architecture world? No.

You can do all these things on an a MBA. But hey, you can do OmniFocus on your ipad!

Now please stick to the point and not bore us to death with endless irrelevant junk. If you can't run these programs, how are these people supposed to do any useful work? they can't. The ipad is a toy.
 
God you write so much drivel. Lets boil it down really simply so you can't just try to talk it all away:

Can you use an Excel spreadsheet with running macros on an ipad, something that is very common in the business world? No.

Can you use photoshop on an ipad, something that is very common in the web and graphic design world? No.

Can you use SketchUp on the ipad, something that is very common in the design and architecture world? No.

You can do all these things on an a MBA. But hey, you can do OmniFocus on your ipad!

Now please stick to the point and not bore us to death with endless irrelevant junk. If you can't run these programs, how are these people supposed to do any useful work? they can't. The ipad is a toy.

As I've said before you think that the world revolves around you so if the iPad is not capable of doing the things that YOU need to do for work then it is a toy. The fact that it IS capable of doing the things that plenty of other people do for work never enters into your mind. It is like other people do not exist to you. I have given you example after example of things that I use the iPad for AT WORK on a daily basis and yet you dismiss it every time as if I and the people I work with do not exist.

I work in higher education. Our spreadsheets do not contain macros. We do not use Photoshop. We do not use SketchUp.

We do load textbooks onto it. I can carry around dozens of textbooks in a device with full color photos, embedded videos, etc. that weighs less than 1 actual textbook. One can walk around a lab grading programming assignments or dissections and entering the grades into an iPad. They would never try to walk around the lab carrying a MBP. People that used to carry legal pads to meetings now carry their iPad which not only has the previous meeting minutes, the new agenda, but also allows them to take notes on it. We do this EVERY DAY. It isn't some sort of fantasy as you seem to think.

Let me repeat this and try to read it slowly. The iPad MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU. That does NOT mean that it doesn't work great for others.

I own a MBP and an iPad. I use the MBP for tasks that it is great at and the iPad for tasks that it is great at. The iPad is a great device that fills a great many needs for many people. The fact that it does not fill your needs is irrelevant. I don't think I can make this any clearer. DO NOT buy one. YOU do not need one. For the love of Pete, stop thinking that you need to force the rest of the world to live in your tiny view of it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.