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Want to record PS3 game play on Mac mini - Uncompressed would be nice.

you could get the ultrastudio 4k from blackmagic - because it can handle 1080p60 and record in prores and uncompressed 4:4:4 as well - and a fast, moderately sized thunderbolt raid system. (you can backup this to a slow usb 3.0 harddrive).
Including FCPX this should be in the $2000 region.

So you can work, edit & store in prores and play a bit with uncompressed as well.
 
I'll think about it. But right now I need to get a PS3 and some games for it. As well as saving up for one of the RAID enclosures.
 
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I'm once again going to say this and you're once again going to ignore it like you have with everyone else but here it goes anyway. YOU DONT NEED UNCOMPRESSED.

It isn't that we're telling you to use inferior codecs, ProRes is an industry standard for a reason, it's that there will be 100% no visual difference because the content coming from the system is already lower quality than ProRes.

Look at it this way as an example. My DSLR shoots 24Mb/s video. When I transcode it to use in Avid I transcode in what's normally deemed a low res codec (DNxHD 36) and leave it there. Why would I do that? Because my content's original quality is already 12Mb/s lower. I could transcode straight to something crazy like 175Mb/s (as we do at work with RED footage for online editing) but all it will do is require more space and more power. It can't add quality that wasn't originally there.

The PS3 gives you quality already lower than ProRes. Recording it as uncompressed will make it take 4x the space and 4x the power but make 0 visual difference because you can't add quality that doesn't exist in the first place.

As someone pointed out, even RED RAW isn't uncompressed. You think you need something that you really don't. Especially for YouTube uploading that will want ****** H.264 anyway.
 
AcesHigh87 said:
My DSLR shoots 24Mb/s video. When I transcode it to use in Avid I transcode in what's normally deemed a low res codec (DNxHD 36) and leave it there. Why would I do that? Because my content's original quality is already 12Mb/s lower. I could transcode straight to something crazy like 175Mb/s (as we do at work with RED footage for online editing) but all it will do is require more space and more power. It can't add quality that wasn't originally there.
Click to expand...

While I completely agree that uncompressed won't offer any benefit over ProRes, your reasoning gives the wrong impression of how recompression works.

When you transcode/recompress, the first part of the process is decompessing the video — effectively meaning the input video in any encode is uncompressed. That perhaps muddies the water in the context of this discussion, but the point is there should be no inferred direct correlation between the originating file's bit rate and the target codec/output file's bit rate.

The choice of target codec/bit rate is a question of how close to the input you want the output to be. ProRes will be a 95% (I'm making that figure up) accurate recreation of original source whether original source is AVCHD or uncompressed.

That said, there are situations where there's sense in concluding that it's somewhat arbitrary whether the "errors" are those from the initial compression or secondary compression. I'd expect going from DSLR video to DNxHD36 to result in a noticeably poorer quality image, though...
 
KeithPratt said:
I'd expect going from DSLR video to DNxHD36 to result in a noticeably poorer quality image, though...
Click to expand...

That is very likely, as the DSLR uses the H.264 codec, which is an intra-frame compression (only changes between certain keyframes are stored, not the actual frames other than those keyframes), and ProRes and DNxHD are an inter-frame compression (every frame is stored), thus 24 Mb/s using intra-frame compression is not the same as 36 Mb/s of inter-frame compression, since those interpolated frames from the DSLR footage are now stored with every frame, which takes up much more space than the 36 Mb/s can offer.
When using DSLR footage I at least use DNxHD 120 (the medium codec) or ProRes 422 (even if the DSRL footage is 4:2:0).
 
KeithPratt said:
While I completely agree that uncompressed won't offer any benefit over ProRes, your reasoning gives the wrong impression of how recompression works.

When you transcode/recompress, the first part of the process is decompessing the video — effectively meaning the input video in any encode is uncompressed. That perhaps muddies the water in the context of this discussion, but the point is there should be no inferred direct correlation between the originating file's bit rate and the target codec/output file's bit rate.

The choice of target codec/bit rate is a question of how close to the input you want the output to be. ProRes will be a 95% (I'm making that figure up) accurate recreation of original source whether original source is AVCHD or uncompressed.

That said, there are situations where there's sense in concluding that it's somewhat arbitrary whether the "errors" are those from the initial compression or secondary compression. I'd expect going from DSLR video to DNxHD36 to result in a noticeably poorer quality image, though...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the discussion. I'll admit my example likely wasn't the best since I was pretty tired this morning and haven't fully tested out what codec gets the best quality for my camera.

Was really trying to make the point though that the quality kicked out by a PS3 will be low enough that ProRes will be more than enough to ever notice a difference. Plus FCP loves ProRes. Cutting Uncompressed is rather challenging even for a Mac Pro running Fiber storage.
 
You DON'T need uncompressed.

You really DON'T need 4K 10 bit 4:4:4; capturing. OMG!

You are capturing gameplay, not editing and colour grading a feature length film. You are talking as if you are shooting footage with $80k Arri's and $15k MacPros/RAID/4K monitors.

Grandiose a bit?

There's a lesson for you to learn here... When everyone is disagreeing with you, it usually means you are wrong.

Think about it.
 
I've thought about it and yes, "Uncompressed" would be a waste of money and time, despite me not making enough to buy all of the expensive hardware needed for such a hobby. I think I will use ProRes since you guys are all advising and recommending it because of the unnoticable quality difference between uncompressed and prores and storage space. Although, I might dispose of the recording gamplay. That being said, which version of the five versions of ProRes will be best for recording? Thanks!
 
JackSpicer0 said:
That being said, which version of the five versions of ProRes will be best for recording? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I used to work on a TV show and all of our game capture was in 720p60 ProRes LT (or in the old days 720p DVCProHD) and we never failed QC (or got notes back from executives) about poor looking gameplay footage.

Recording gameplay is kinda like recording an animation in that there is already a finite amount of image information that exists. For example, if you go to the highest point in Arkham City and look out over Gotham the amount of detail the artists put into the buildings, the sky, the textures, the lighting, etc.,. is fixed. You can't capture more detail than what the artists included in the game.

Conversely if you go to the highest point in NYC city and record a cityscape with a camera your choice of lenses, camera body/imaging sensor, and recording format directly impact the level of detail you capture. There's an unlimited amount of visual information that you are manipulating down into the form of a computer file so how you manipulate that information matters. Higher bit rate codecs also give you more information to manipulate in post (key someone out for a green screen shot, color correction, reframing, etc.,) and I don't you are going to be doing much of that w/the gameplay footage.


I guess my while point is that, honestly, it might not make a difference if you record in ProRex Proxy or ProRes 4444. The good thing about game capture though is it's pretty easy to do quality tests by just recording the same cutscene over and over again with different settings.
 
When I'm finished editing and ready for export/share, what video format would be best for uploading to YouTube? I know H.264 is good, but are there any other formats/codecs close to "Uncompressed" or ProRes to keep the quality the same for exporting to the Mac or burning a DVD/Blu-Ray Disc? Thanks!
 
JackSpicer0 said:
When I'm finished editing and ready for export/share, what video format would be best for uploading to YouTube? I know H.264 is good, but are there any other formats/codecs close to "Uncompressed" or ProRes to keep the quality the same for exporting to the Mac or burning a DVD/Blu-Ray Disc? Thanks!
Click to expand...

YouTube, Vimeo, etc,. will re-encode whatever you upload to them so while you don't want to send them a crappy looking file, there's no point in sending up a large, pristine file. It will take longer to upload, take longer to get encoded by YT/Vimeo and the end result will won't be better.

My suggestion would be to export a regular ProRes QT from FCP and use that as your master copy of your finished product. Then you can take that master QT and run it through compressor to make the compressed files you'll use for YT, BD, DVD, etc.,. I haven't used the newer versions of Compressor before but I'm sure it has YT presets so that would probably be a good place to start.
 
LethalWolfe said:
My suggestion would be to export a regular ProRes QT from FCP and use that as your master copy of your finished product. Then you can take that master QT and run it through compressor to make the compressed files you'll use for YT, BD, DVD, etc.,.
Click to expand...

Good advice. Compressor has presets for the popular video sharing outlets and can automate the upload for you. (so does FCP and iMovie I think)

I prefer Handbrake over Compressor for some things like AppleTV, iPods, Android devices... so its nice to have "master files" and then choose the appropriate compression tool.
 
I don't have FCP 7 or X or my Mac with me right now, but where can I find this "ProRes QT" in the "Share/Export" menu/option?
 
"prores QT" meaning "prores quicktime" - try prores LT or 422.

if you don't have the prores codec in compressor, you might have to download it via software update.
 
I'll have to check to see if the option is there in Compressor when I have time. Thanks!
 
Speaking of Apple ProRes, would my stock 5400rpm(?) hard drive be fast enough to capture and edit with no problems? I have the stock 4GB of RAM, although I'm planning on upgrading to full 16GB RAM after I save up for the PS3, some PS3 games, Intensity Shuttle, Thunderbolt cable, component cables, and a second monitor/tv when I move to a new home.
 
5400 RPM should be ok.. although a faster external would be desired.

I would suggest this. Before you save up all the money to buy the ps3, the games, the gear and hard drives, maybe you need to spend your time and resources getting your editing knoweldge and harware upgraded for this project.

I'd suggest reading up further on capturing videogame footage, as well as getting some footage loaded into FCP or whatever youre editing on, making some cuts, and exporting and posting to youtube. Doing this will help educate yourself, and so you wont have to post to forums every step of the way for assistance.


Have you looked into Elgato?

https://www.elgato.com/en/game-capture-hd60

Do you have access to someone elses game system for tests?

Your cart is getting ahead of the horse, as spending $1200 to simply record game footage may be avoided with further research.
 
Yes, I have looked into Elgato. But the newer version of the Elgato only supports HDMi and not the standard A/V inputs from the older version of the Elgato. I think the PS3 still has HDCP so I'll have to go the Component route. No, sadly, I don't have any video game consoles to test this project on. I am currently doing research on the subject. But I will also keep in mind about using an external drive for a scratch disk instead of my main drive. Thank you for this suggestion. I'll report back on what I find.
 
Some basic info about raw:
There is not many cameras that output raw: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncompressed_video
There is also different kinds of raw, dependent on the subsampling.
Even lower grade raw (e.g. 4:2:2) creates gigantic!! files.
Reality is infinitly detailed and raw is an attempted to get as much visual data as possible from the sensor.

Now to video games:
They are not infinitly detailed, quite the opposite.
They are basically computer animations and, like someone mentioned, are already as compressed as it gets.

Finding a workaround to somehow record video game screen footage in "raw" would be amazing nonsense.
 
I looked at the wikipedia link you provided before posting in the forums. There is a difference between "Raw" and "Uncompressed" according to Google with various links on the subject. Yes, I know video games are compressed. Since one of the games I'm planning on getting for my PS3 is Black Ops 2, and according to this link:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-on-console

The game isn't actually in Full HD. How would I capture in it's native resolution if I'm given the standard SD resolutions and HD resolutions from a capture device. I know that I could get the PC version of the game compared to its console counterparts, but the only problem for me is that the PC version, while superior in quality, doesn't have the option to play offline multiplayer and I'd always have to be connected to the Internet to play "offline" multiplayer because of Steam. Whereas on the console versions of the game, I can disable my internet and truly play offline multiplayer. There is a bit of a trade off between the console versions and PC versions. Between the Intensity's unknown max bit rate and no hardware/on-board encoder and the Elgato's max bit rate of 30Mbps and hardware/on-board encoder, I'm torn between the two devices.
 
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