Warcraft III: Reforged

maflynn

Moderator
Original poster
Staff member
May 3, 2009
65,628
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Boston
I don't play, but I see there's a mass revolt on this.

The uesr score is in free fall and is currently at 0.8. I'm not sure how Blizzard can save face and/or turn this around. I guess this rollout broke the original warcraft III game and most (all?) of the short comings in Reforged has been foisted on to the original game.
1580488723847.png
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,224
6,855
New Hampshire, USA
I don't play it either but I wonder if the issue was caused by naming it Warcraft III.

It may be a good game by itself but people will have certain expectations when it is part of a series (i.e. maybe it should have been marketed as a new game and not part of the Warcraft series).
 

Anarchy99

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2003
944
908
CA
I don't play it either but I wonder if the issue was caused by naming it Warcraft III.
Nope,
some of the issues are (including but not limited to):

  1. the graphics comparably don't look much better in most circumstances and in some worse
    many of the cinematics also don't look much better.
  2. it's buggy
  3. they didn't keep to the level of polish they promised in previous media demonstrations( see the trailer comparison that I link below). so it feels very rushed.
on top of all that are doing user-hostile things, for example:
in their terms of service if a mod becomes super popular and spawns the next DOTA or whatever then blizzard reserves the right to not only sell it as their own invention but not attribute any credit to the actual offer of the mod.

that's not the only scummy thing they've done, they were also banning users that in their forums were telling people how to refund the game if you, for example, don't like these changes (or lack thereof) and feel you being sold something under false pretenses.


blizzcon 2018 trailer of reforged vs what was delivered
 

vertical smile

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2014
4,292
5,393
I played the classic version and still do on occasion. It is a great game.

I preordered Reforge, but have not installed it yet.

So people are saying that it breaks existing WCIII?
 

Anarchy99

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2003
944
908
CA
So people are saying that it breaks existing WCIII?
one of the many bugs (if it is a bug)
is if you own both classic and reforged with the latest launcher if you choose to install Warcraft III it will only install reforged.

you cannot select classic and have it actually install classic it even goes as far as overwriting classic with reforged.

so if you say wanted both on your system to compare or old mods etc.
currently you need to reinstall classic with either an old version of the launcher that doesn't know what reforged is because it pre-dates it or reinstall Warcraft III from some other unofficial means... *cough* *cough* torrent/piracy *cough* *cough*
 

vertical smile

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2014
4,292
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I am going to back up my Mac and try it this weekend.

If I remember, I will post what happens here.
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,224
6,855
New Hampshire, USA
Nope,
some of the issues are (including but not limited to):
Good to know.

Blizzard was known for quality software.

I wonder if Activision replaced the Blizzard programmers with people from Activision ?

I just noticed that the new updated release of Warcraft 3 doesn't support MacOS.

What is the latest version of MacOS that supports the original Warcraft 3 ?
 
Last edited:

Abazigal

macrumors G5
Jul 18, 2011
12,194
9,994
Singapore
I played the classic version and still do on occasion. It is a great game.

I preordered Reforge, but have not installed it yet.

So people are saying that it breaks existing WCIII?
What I have read on Ars Technica is that none of your existing custom content (like third party maps) will load under Reforged.

That said, I am amazed by all the negative reviews. It's supposed to be just a graphics patch update, no? How badly can you possibly screw it up?
 
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Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
Nope,
some of the issues are (including but not limited to):

  1. the graphics comparably don't look much better in most circumstances and in some worse
    many of the cinematics also don't look much better.
  2. it's buggy
  3. they didn't keep to the level of polish they promised in previous media demonstrations( see the trailer comparison that I link below). so it feels very rushed.
on top of all that are doing user-hostile things, for example:
in their terms of service if a mod becomes super popular and spawns the next DOTA or whatever then blizzard reserves the right to not only sell it as their own invention but not attribute any credit to the actual offer of the mod.

that's not the only scummy thing they've done, they were also banning users that in their forums were telling people how to refund the game if you, for example, don't like these changes (or lack thereof) and feel you being sold something under false pretenses.


blizzcon 2018 trailer of reforged vs what was delivered
Looking at the images, this is unbelievable, a huge step backwards. I don’t think this is what is meant by retro-gaming. ;)
- - Post merged: - -

What I have read on Ars Technica is that none of your existing custom content (like third party maps) will load under Reforged.

That said, I am amazed by all the negative reviews. It's supposed to be just a graphics patch update, no? How badly can you possibly screw it up?
Post 4 ;)
 

maflynn

Moderator
Original poster
Staff member
May 3, 2009
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The user score is down to .6 and even the Metascore being 63 is low. This will not turn out well for blizzard. Unsubstantiated rumors are alledging that players are being banned on the offical forum because they were trying to help others get a refund.


1580560433042.png



Here's features that have been removed, just to clarify that we're not talking about graphic quality
1580560623229.png



This article I think states why many people are upset
Warcraft 3: Reforged is Getting Absolutely Destroyed By Fans
Many players are accusing Blizzard of pulling a bait-and-switch with Warcraft 3: Reforged. This seems like a fair assessment. The game was released with seemingly more bugs than Fallout 76, missing content and features, a forcibly merged client that locks players out of things the old client had but the new one does not, and numerous other issues. Longtime fans of the series, especially those who wanted to relive the glory days of Warcraft 3, have a lot to be angry about. This was exactly the disaster Blizzard needed to avoid, and according to most Warcraft 3: Reforged players, they appear to have failed spectacularly.
 
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vertical smile

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2014
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This is pretty nuts.

WTF is happening to Blizzard? Has Activision's corporate influence gutted Blizzard to the point that they are just a shell of what they once was?

Blizzard used to be a rock solid gaming company, relatively small, but passionate about the product they produced and the very loyal fan base that followed them throughout the year.

I have played their games since the mid-90's with WCI, and have got every WC game since with a few SC and Diablo games too.

I loved that they were very Mac friendly, even way before Apple and Macs were popular and trendy.

You could see the their passion in their games. WCIII and TFT was amazing when it launched, and not just gameplay, but with the story and lore.

It is a complete shame what is happening now. It just seems like it getting worse and worse.


they were trying to help others get a refund.

I am not sure if I am going to request a refund or not. I was on the refund page, but remembered something about when I preordered over a year ago....

I got the spoils of war bundle, which includes preorder bonus for other games like the meat wagon in WoW. I also used a battle.net gift card to preorder, so I wouldn't get any cash back.
 
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JayMysterio

macrumors 6502a
Apr 24, 2010
893
15,466
Rock Ridge, California
The user score is down to .6 and even the Metascore being 63 is low. This will not turn out well for blizzard. Unsubstantiated rumors are alledging that players are being banned on the offical forum because they were trying to help others get a refund.


View attachment 891703


Here's features that have been removed, just to clarify that we're not talking about graphic quality
View attachment 891708


This article I think states why many people are upset
Warcraft 3: Reforged is Getting Absolutely Destroyed By Fans
How low can they go?
At 0.5 now, maybe even lower...?
 
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BigMcGuire

Contributor
Jan 10, 2012
4,863
5,919
California
Sad. I grew up on Warcraft II and AOE I, II as a kid. I spent many years playing WoW ... way too many. Never played Warcraft III but was looking at getting reforged when it was announced years ago.

I play a lot of Starcraft nowadays but my wife and I have let our WoW subscription lapse over the last year. We renewed for WoW classic, played for a month, then quickly got bored of it. lol.

This is a video my little brother sent me - he's a huge WoW fan.

 

KALLT

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2008
4,990
3,048
Luckily, my Warcraft installation was fully up-to-date before the release of Reforged. After it installed the update, I ended up restoring my game files from Time Machine. I disabled the automatic updates in the Battle.net launcher and added blocks in Little Snitch to stop it from updating again.

What I observed myself:
  • Even if you do not buy Reforged (which I did not), the Battle.net launcher will download and install up to 30 GB worth of game files. Before the update, Warcraft was less than 2 GB big (not counting the maps). This is a lot of wasted space, if you don’t buy Reforged.
  • The old Battle.net infrastructure is gone. Without the Reforged client, you will be left with single player and local co-op (LAN) gameplay only, if you keep the old Warcraft 3 client.
  • The Reforged client has a huge CPU footprint in the main-menu screen. Even on my system with a dedicated GPU, the frame-rate was extremely low. I read on Twitter that the menu itself is rendered in a Chromium web session.
  • Game saves and campaign progress do not carry over to Reforged. You have to start all over.
I didn’t get further than this, because I had seen enough.

Admittedly, Reforged never piqued my interest even at its first announcement. The graphic style irked me even then and has not improved, at least to my mind. Just seeing the awkward portrait animations makes me believe that this game was made by entirely different people. In the end, Reforged has nothing else to offer other than new models and animations, slightly tweaked campaigns and added sounds. For that, €30 is just too much.
 
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Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
Luckily, my Warcraft installation was fully up-to-date before the release of Reforged. After it installed the update, I ended up restoring my game files from Time Machine. I disabled the automatic updates in the Battle.net launcher and added blocks in Little Snitch to stop it from updating again.

What I observed myself:
  • Even if you do not buy Reforged (which I did not), the Battle.net launcher will download and install up to 30 GB worth of game files. Before the update, Warcraft was less than 2 GB big (not counting the maps). This is a lot of wasted space, if you don’t buy Reforged.
  • The old Battle.net infrastructure is gone. Without the Reforged client, you will be left with single player and local co-op (LAN) gameplay only, if you keep the old Warcraft 3 client.
  • The Reforged client has a huge CPU footprint in the main-menu screen. Even on my system with a dedicated GPU, the frame-rate was extremely low. I read on Twitter that the menu itself is rendered in a Chromium web session.
  • Game saves and campaign progress do not carry over to Reforged. You have to start all over.
I didn’t get further than this, because I had seen enough.

Admittedly, Reforged never piqued my interest even at its first announcement. The graphic style irked me even then and has not improved, at least to my mind. Just seeing the awkward portrait animations makes me believe that this game was made by entirely different people. In the end, Reforged has nothing else to offer other than new models and animations, slightly tweaked campaigns and added sounds. For that, €30 is just too much.
Wow, what a crock! :confused:

I don’t have Warcraft installed however I’m curious, if you had Warcraft installed and updated, you required to do what to keep Battlenet from updating? And if it won’t update, doesn't this screw you for other Battlenet games? In fact, I thought an online connection was required to play Warcraft 3?

This is a strong reason to avoid a publisher who can erase games you have purchased. It’s possibly I‘m confusing this with Diablo 3.
 

Vally1945

macrumors member
Aug 8, 2019
36
13
Palm Springs, CA
Luckily, my Warcraft installation was fully up-to-date before the release of Reforged. After it installed the update, I ended up restoring my game files from Time Machine. I disabled the automatic updates in the Battle.net launcher and added blocks in Little Snitch to stop it from updating again.

What I observed myself:
  • Even if you do not buy Reforged (which I did not), the Battle.net launcher will download and install up to 30 GB worth of game files. Before the update, Warcraft was less than 2 GB big (not counting the maps). This is a lot of wasted space, if you don’t buy Reforged.
  • The old Battle.net infrastructure is gone. Without the Reforged client, you will be left with single player and local co-op (LAN) gameplay only, if you keep the old Warcraft 3 client.
  • The Reforged client has a huge CPU footprint in the main-menu screen. Even on my system with a dedicated GPU, the frame-rate was extremely low. I read on Twitter that the menu itself is rendered in a Chromium web session.
  • Game saves and campaign progress do not carry over to Reforged. You have to start all over.
I didn’t get further than this, because I had seen enough.

Admittedly, Reforged never piqued my interest even at its first announcement. The graphic style irked me even then and has not improved, at least to my mind. Just seeing the awkward portrait animations makes me believe that this game was made by entirely different people. In the end, Reforged has nothing else to offer other than new models and animations, slightly tweaked campaigns and added sounds. For that, €30 is just too much.
That sounds terrible and like they didn't even think this through haha. I sure do miss old Warcraft II though. Classic game that was really fun.
 

BigMcGuire

Contributor
Jan 10, 2012
4,863
5,919
California
So I bought Warcraft III... and spent 2 hours trying to get it to just run on my 2017 MBP 13' TB last night. It would fire up and just give me a back screen. No amount of keyboard combinations would get me out of that black screen. With my Sonnet EGPU I'd get a red screen that locked up my MacBook Pro. Both required hard booting the MBP.

I hard booted my MBP at least a dozen times last night trying all sorts of things (setting it not to open full screen, reinstalling, etc) and nothing would help.

Got so frustrated after nearly 2 hours I just went through the automatic refund process and got an immediate refund. Forums show other Mac users having this problem but I guess it isn't super widespread?

That sounds terrible and like they didn't even think this through haha. I sure do miss old Warcraft II though. Classic game that was really fun.
I bought Warcraft II on GOG a few months ago and played it on my Windows PC. While it was nice for a little bit, after playing Starcraft II for years it was difficult to enjoy beyond just the initial nostalgia blast. Units got trapped requiring me to baby sit them going anywhere, only able to make one unit at a time, etc. But it was fun for awhile - I played that game for years as a kid until we got AOE. :)

------------

Having been a WoW fanatic for many years (2007-2017ish) it has been sad to see what Blizzard has become. My wife and I gave WoW many years of our lives. Oh well, nothing lasts forever. :(
 
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vertical smile

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2014
4,292
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Wow, what a crock! :confused:

I don’t have Warcraft installed however I’m curious, if you had Warcraft installed and updated, you required to do what to keep Battlenet from updating? And if it won’t update, doesn't this screw you for other Battlenet games? In fact, I thought an online connection was required to play Warcraft 3?

This is a strong reason to avoid a publisher who can erase games you have purchased. It’s possibly I‘m confusing this with Diablo 3.
The original WCIII game didn't need the internet at all, the whole game could be installed and played with an air-gapped computer.


Another nice thing was you can do without internet was multiplayer over LAN. The majority of multiplayer I did with WCIII was over LAN with friends of mine.

Although, there was things that you could do with an internet connection, like using battle.net for online multiplayer finding user created maps, and other stuff.


Got so frustrated after nearly 2 hours I just went through the automatic refund process and got an immediate refund. Forums show other Mac users having this problem but I guess it isn't super widespread?
I am not sure what is happening with Blizzard, but I think this might be the new norm for them. Maybe not as bad as WC3:R, but not nearly as polished as games in the past.
 

KALLT

macrumors 601
Sep 23, 2008
4,990
3,048
I don’t have Warcraft installed however I’m curious, if you had Warcraft installed and updated, you required to do what to keep Battlenet from updating? And if it won’t update, doesn't this screw you for other Battlenet games? In fact, I thought an online connection was required to play Warcraft 3?
Once you launch the updated Warcraft 3, it will show up in the Battle.net app. From there you can disable automatic updates on a per-game basis. After restoring the game files with Time Machine, the launcher will still ask you to update the game, but won’t do it automatically. The blocks in Little Snitch are needed for the game itself, because it will ask you to update when you launch the game. Disabling the internet connections won’t matter anyway, as the only online functionality (Battle.net) is gone.

Screenshot 2020-02-05 at 23.48.02.png Screenshot 2020-02-05 at 23.49.29.png Screenshot 2020-02-05 at 23.50.49.png