Warming-up for the all-new redesigned retina 2014 (2015?) MacBook Air

[psik]

Could this news mean that a retina macbook air will come out before October or latest by October? Or will it by contrary point to a new macbook pro coming out before a new macbook air? What do you guys think?
kitguru.net/components/cpu/anton-shilov/first-intel-broadwell-processors-to-be-released-in-september/

 

[chleuasme]

This document says Broadwell U-series aren't to expect before mid-october. Would Apple use Y-series Broadwell chips? I don't think so

 

[iMacmatician]

The Broadwell-U parts with GT3 are not expected until February 2015. Since I'm not sure that Apple would go from Haswell GT3 to Broadwell GT2 in the MacBook Air if they keep the U-series, I think there's a decent chance of no MBA update until early 2015 (unless they go ARM).

There was a rumor two months back claiming MBA updates "soon," MBP updates in September, and an upcoming fanless MacBook. So far the first of those claims has happened, so around September is probably a good guess for an MBP refresh, followed by a mid-2015 Broadwell update.

 

[psik]

The Broadwell-U parts with GT3 are not expected until February 2015. Since I'm not sure that Apple would go from Haswell GT3 to Broadwell GT2 in the MacBook Air if they keep the U-series, I think there's a decent chance of no MBA update until early 2015 (unless they go ARM).

There was a rumor two months back claiming MBA updates "soon," MBP updates in September, and an upcoming fanless MacBook. So far the first of those claims has happened, so around September is probably a good guess for an MBP refresh, followed by a mid-2015 Broadwell update.

Thanks!

 

[skaertus]

This document says Broadwell U-series aren't to expect before mid-october. Would Apple use Y-series Broadwell chips? I don't think so

Me neither. I guess we will not see new Airs at WWDC then.

----------

The Broadwell-U parts with GT3 are not expected until February 2015. Since I'm not sure that Apple would go from Haswell GT3 to Broadwell GT2 in the MacBook Air if they keep the U-series, I think there's a decent chance of no MBA update until early 2015 (unless they go ARM).

There was a rumor two months back claiming MBA updates "soon," MBP updates in September, and an upcoming fanless MacBook. So far the first of those claims has happened, so around September is probably a good guess for an MBP refresh, followed by a mid-2015 Broadwell update.

I think Apple will stick with the GT3, especially because a retina Air will require more GPU horsepower. Apple may get some early access to Broadwell with GT3, however. I remember that Apple was the first one to release laptops with Haswell (when it launched the Air in 2013), and Windows laptops with this processor followed later.

 

[linjac951]

Personally I think They are phasing out the macbook airs and redefining the Air Line. Similar to what they did with the Bulky Macbook Pros' with the DVD drives. That is why we haven't seen a redesign or anything. I think they are going to substitute the Intel Chips with their A8 Chips. This will knock 2 birds with one stone. They can update the new line with thinner fanless designs and retain the battery life with the retina screen. Sort of Imagine the IPad with a keyboard. Possibly longer battery life. At the moment the Air line is way to close to the Pro line. The performance is nearly on par with the retina macbook. I would think to distinguish the two, they will make the Air more of a super mobile laptop and the pro as the super powerful laptop. In the end all their products will have have retina.

 

[skaertus]

Personally I think They are phasing out the macbook airs and redefining the Air Line. Similar to what they did with the Bulky Macbook Pros' with the DVD drives. That is why we haven't seen a redesign or anything. I think they are going to substitute the Intel Chips with their A8 Chips. This will knock 2 birds with one stone. They can update the new line with thinner fanless designs and retain the battery life with the retina screen. Sort of Imagine the IPad with a keyboard. Possibly longer battery life. At the moment the Air line is way to close to the Pro line. The performance is nearly on par with the retina macbook. I would think to distinguish the two, they will make the Air more of a super mobile laptop and the pro as the super powerful laptop. In the end all their products will have have retina.

I agree with you that Apple is phasing out its current MacBook Air line, like it did with the non-retina Pro line. The difference is that Apple has not yet released the replacement. And that is why I think the current Air line is going to be discontinued when the new Air arrives. I could be totally wrong, of course.

As for replacing it with an ARM processor, I do not think it will happen. It may happen in the future, but not at this point. It would break compatibility with all current OS X software.

The current MacBook Air is a full-featured computer as it is. It runs powerful productivity software, and it has the power to run Windows as well. Both OS X and Windows have powerful desktop apps, and are able to multi-task. iOS is a much less capable operating system, and Apple is hardly going to improve it as much as making it so powerful as OS X in the next release.

For me, the bottom line is that if Apple releases an ARM-based MacBook Air now, it is going to alienate many consumers. Some of them may migrate to the more expensive Pro line, which is also heavier and less mobile. Lots of them may migrate to Windows, as there are many compelling offers for a lower price, including the Surface Pro 3 and the Samsung Ativ Book 9 Plus, just to mention two of Apple's biggest competitors.

I fail to see how an ARM-based MacBook Air will be so much different from a Google Chromebook Pixel. Both will be expensive premium laptops aiming at running very simple and basic apps. This approach was not exactly successful with the Pixel (which anyway is more a showcase than anything else). Will Apple be so bold as to try this approach with the Air? I think it won't as it is a shot on the foot.

 

[stfwayne]

I think the 11/13 MBA are getting discontinued as well

Maybe not tomorrow but very soon in the near future

Or they could always keep the line as a low cost option and have the Retina Air start at $1200, $200 more than the 13 MBA and $200 less than the Retina Pro

The more Apple drops the price of the Air, the more people will convert to OS X and Apple products. 3 years ago (2011 when i purchased mine) the MBA 13" with 4GB of RAM cost $1299. That's a $100 drop per year.

 

[skaertus]

I think the 11/13 MBA are getting discontinued as well

Maybe not tomorrow but very soon in the near future

Or they could always keep the line as a low cost option and have the Retina Air start at $1200, $200 more than the 13 MBA and $200 less than the Retina Pro

The more Apple drops the price of the Air, the more people will convert to OS X and Apple products. 3 years ago (2011 when i purchased mine) the MBA 13" with 4GB of RAM cost $1299. That's a $100 drop per year.

Apple will not discontinue the current Air line tomorrow. It has just been updated and it would not make any sense to discontinue it now.

Apple has dropped the price of the Air, but it had other low-end offerings before. First, Apple discontinued the white MacBook, and then the non-retina MacBook Pro. The Air became the low-end offering. I don't think Apple will raise much of the price of the Air when it launches the retina version. A retina display is not as expensive as it was back in 2012.

 

[stfwayne]

Apple will not discontinue the current Air line tomorrow. It has just been updated and it would not make any sense to discontinue it now.

Apple has dropped the price of the Air, but it had other low-end offerings before. First, Apple discontinued the white MacBook, and then the non-retina MacBook Pro. The Air became the low-end offering. I don't think Apple will raise much of the price of the Air when it launches the retina version. A retina display is not as expensive as it was back in 2012.

Apple just dropped the price of the MBA which means it wont drop more anytime soon.

It is very unlikely that Apple would charge only $100 more for a Retina screen. Maybe $150 but the likely cost would be $200 more than the base 13" MBA.

11>13 ($100)
13>Retina Air ($200)
Retina Air>Retina Pro ($100) - basically same machine but less powerful processor

 

[skaertus]

Apple just dropped the price of the MBA which means it wont drop more anytime soon.

It is very unlikely that Apple would charge only $100 more for a Retina screen. Maybe $150 but the likely cost would be $200 more than the base 13" MBA.

11>13 ($100)
13>Retina Air ($200)
Retina Air>Retina Pro ($100) - basically same machine but less powerful processor

I am not so sure of that.

In June 2012, Apple released the 15-inch retina MacBook Pro. It had a screen with 4x the resolution, and a 256 GB SSD instead of a traditional HDD. And it costed US$ 400 more (from US$ 1799 the price was raised to US$ 2199 in the low-end model). In October 2012, Apple released the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro, with a 4x resolution and a 128 GB SSD. It costed US$ 1699, or US$ 500 more than the low-end non-retina 13-inch MacBook Pro.

Prices were cut, and now look at what we have: the 13-inch retina Pro costs just US$ 100 more than the non-retina version, despite having 4x more resolution and a much more expensive SSD, and the 15-inch retina Pro costs US$ 200 more than the non-retina version it replaced.

Now, things are different. The Air already has an SSD. A redesign will be made, and it will get a retina display. But the resolution is expected to be 2304x1440, which is not 4x the current resolution of the 13-inch model. In fact, it is about 2.5x the resolution. Prices of retina displays are not so high as they were in the past.

So, perhaps Apple releases the lower-end retina Air for US$ 999 or US$ 1099.

Don't you think this is possible?

 

[stfwayne]

I am not so sure of that.

In June 2012, Apple released the 15-inch retina MacBook Pro. It had a screen with 4x the resolution, and a 256 GB SSD instead of a traditional HDD. And it costed US$ 400 more (from US$ 1799 the price was raised to US$ 2199 in the low-end model). In October 2012, Apple released the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro, with a 4x resolution and a 128 GB SSD. It costed US$ 1699, or US$ 500 more than the low-end non-retina 13-inch MacBook Pro.

Prices were cut, and now look at what we have: the 13-inch retina Pro costs just US$ 100 more than the non-retina version, despite having 4x more resolution and a much more expensive SSD, and the 15-inch retina Pro costs US$ 200 more than the non-retina version it replaced.

Now, things are different. The Air already has an SSD. A redesign will be made, and it will get a retina display. But the resolution is expected to be 2304x1440, which is not 4x the current resolution of the 13-inch model. In fact, it is about 2.5x the resolution. Prices of retina displays are not so high as they were in the past.

So, perhaps Apple releases the lower-end retina Air for US$ 999 or US$ 1099.

Don't you think this is possible?

Truthfully I dont care what Apple prices the Retina Air as long as they get rid of the laundry list of problems that currently plague the 13/15 rMBP aka yellowing, uneven colors, image retention, and screen coating scraping off

I have been waiting almost 2 weeks for WWDC because I am in the market to replace my MBA 13 from 2011 and am anxiously awaiting a Retina Air hopefully with no noisy fan and a problem free screen

I also think that Apple may finally discontinue the 13 Regular Pro because I really do not see Apple offering a 13MBA, 13 Retina Air, 13 Pro, 13 Retina Pro that is too confusing and too many options at a similar price point.

11/13 Air ---> 13 Retina ---> 13 /15 Retina Pro

That lineup is much easier for a consumer walking into an Apple Store or Best Buy to make a decision

I think that is why Apple dropped the price of the Air in order to squeeze the Retina Air in bw the Air and the Retina Pro lineups

 

[leonw]

so no new hardware at WWCD yesterday.
When is the next possibility for an anouncement for the rumored 12" rMBA?
At the iPhone6 presentation in october or will there be an other event?
And will there be an 12" rMBA at all now there seems to be a bigger (12"??) iPad in the pipeline?

 

[SmOgER]

What to expect?

12-inch IGZO display?
2304x1440 resolution?
Thinner and lighter?
Touch screen?
New materials?
Cheaper?
Better battery life?

Let's share our thoughts...

As for the LCD, I know that it's very likely true according to the rumours, but I still don't see 12inch as a good option. Looking at 13inch MBA, I see the new model maintaining the same case size but having smaller bezel around the screen thus achieving some 14 inch. Why should they make it smaller?


2304x1440 for 12 inch? You joking right?
If this becomes true, customer is the only one who loses. Bigger resolution = more power and bigger battery needed, and you won't see the full benefit of such enormous resolution on 12 inch lcd ultra portable laptop. So to sum this up, for abit better lcd quality, yet smaller screen size, you need bigger battery and more powerful CPU as well as GPU to archieve the same performance current MBA has.
That means it will be way more expensive but practically won't be more powerful, and best case scenario battery life will be the same.


Thinner and lighter? I guess sky is the limit, huh?

Touch screen? Possibly indeed, but it might be secondary lcd which will be TS, not primary.

New materials? I don't really see how you could improve this, Apple failed to do so for 4 years for a reason. But they could introduce dark model and change the shape a bit I guess, just to make it look different.

Cheaper? If it's gonna be MAC OS X device like it is now, I certainly don't see it being any cheaper.

Battery life, already discussed that.

There are many big rumours floating around, but all in all, it's really hard to think about something revolutionary when talking about MBA and I don't think Apple wants to lose it's 'ultrabook' spot on the market by doing something extreme like merging top of the line iPad with MBA or releasing MBA without physical keyboard.

 

[nksk]

2304x1440 for 12 inch? You joking right?
If this becomes true, customer is the only one who loses. Bigger resolution = more power and bigger battery needed, and you won't see the full benefit of such enormous resolution on 12 inch lcd

So you've literally never seen a Retina display, then? I say we all lose if the next model doesn't have one. I'd seriously consider switching to something else.

Also, can you ARM-enthusiasts please read this article and explain again why switching away from Intel would be a good idea:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/03/intel-llama-mountain-prototype/

Yes, that's a Core-series processor (not Atom) running Windows 8.1 in a fanless tablet thinner than the iPad. Now imagine what it could do for the Macbook Air.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

i think i've stated this previously. what's confusing to me is why there are rumors for a 12" ipad PRO and a 12" macbook air

don't these sound liek the EXACT same product?

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I've had both an iPad and MBA. They are definitely not the same product. I hated the iPad and luv the MBA.

Lou

 

[SmOgER]

So you've literally never seen a Retina display, then? I say we all lose if the next model doesn't have one. I'd seriously consider switching to something else.

Given all the facts I just said, for 12inch FULL HD res would be plenty IMHO.
It's a ultra portable device, not some stationary machine for **** sake. They can't just put GeForce GT 750M in there. I'd rather have 180PPI and somewhat speedy machine, than 220PPI laptop which performs worse than 3 year old device.

As you may or may not already know, MAC OS X UI is more demanding on graphics than WIN 8. All the transitions - switching between several desktops, mission control etc. need horsepower. And with yosemite, you now get blurry/transparent window elements which need resources as well (while MS dropped all the transparency). That's part of the reason actually why we see windows ultrabooks with higher screen resolutions than current MBA.

 

[cairene2011]

i think i've stated this previously. what's confusing to me is why there are rumors for a 12" ipad PRO and a 12" macbook air

don't these sound liek the EXACT same product?

I agree. I think the new Macbook Air Retina will be a completely new breed, like the Surface and many other Windows machines currently available. Not an update of the current entry level Airs. Keyboard + Touchscreen. iPad Pro = rMBA

Wording like this on the Apple Website (on the page about Yosemite) also makes me very sure that the new Macbooks will have a touchscreen. "Fingertips" and "more room" to navigate with those sausage fingers...

 

[FuNGi]

I agree. I think the new Macbook Air Retina will be a completely new breed, like the Surface and many other Windows machines currently available. Not an update of the current entry level Airs. Keyboard + Touchscreen. iPad Pro = rMBA

Wording like this on the Apple Website (on the page about Yosemite) also makes me very sure that the new Macbooks will have a touchscreen. "Fingertips" and "more room" to navigate with those sausage fingers...

Um. We also use our fingertips on the keyboard and trackpad so I fail to understand your point.

The previous development of the Air models consistently showed increasing power and battery life with incremental increases in storage and RAM at price points reflecting falling price points for those parts. As an early adopter (late 2010) of the Air model I see the next iteration focused on screen resolution/quality to be the only remaining dimension of Air innovation that has yet to be addressed. Give me a 2015 Air with a better screen and I'd gladly take a hit from the 12 hour battery to even a 10 hour one if priced similarly. This would be a problem for Apple however — releasing a new version with worse battery life. Reviewers would pounce. Obviously when (not if) we get a retina (or similar higher resolution) Air will be dependent upon the design balance between better battery life to fuel the higher resolution screen and still being an affordable entry level mac for the consumer.

 

[chleuasme]

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/03/intel-llama-mountain-prototype/

Yes, that's a Core-series processor (not Atom) running Windows 8.1 in a fanless tablet thinner than the iPad. Now imagine what it could do for the Macbook Air.

What performances can you expect with this chip running OS X and in 2x HiDPI with integrated graphics for a retina screen?

 

[jmoore5196]

I hate to say I told you so ... but I will.

I harken back to my comments on page 15 of this thread, in which I said Apple would not abandon the current MBA configurations in order to introduce an MBA with an improved screen. The recent refresh and lack of new product introduction at WWDC proved my point.

As a previous poster notes, battery life would obviously take a hit with an improved display ... and Apple isn't stupid. They're not going to aggressively court the onslaught of negative reviews from folks who want both battery life and a quality display.

The originator of the thread has now created a 650-post oddity: He continues his focus on a product that was not introduced at WWDC, per his expectation, and on a personal wish-list approach to MBA design that will not see light of day anytime in the foreseeable future. If you read his earlier posts, he claimed that the 11" MBA suffered from unspecified "problems," and when confronted with that sentence, claimed he never said there were "problems" with the MBA. I'm not sure how one continues a dialogue with someone who doesn't subscribe to rational thought when forming arguments.

The essence of this thread is a sort of literary grasping at straws. I trust no one will mind if I stop reading now. I despise throwing good effort after bad.

 

[nksk]

I hate to say I told you so ... but I will.

I harken back to my comments on page 15 of this thread, in which I said Apple would not abandon the current MBA configurations in order to introduce an MBA with an improved screen. The recent refresh and lack of new product introduction at WWDC proved my point.

Considering Broadwell was delayed, that's not proof of anything.

As a previous poster notes, battery life would obviously take a hit with an improved display ... and Apple isn't stupid. They're not going to aggressively court the onslaught of negative reviews from folks who want both battery life and a quality display.

The battery life of any product will take a hit when using a higher resolution. Yet every single one of Apple's laptops, tablets and phones, except the Macbook Air already have Retina displays. Why would Apple now become afraid of making that tradeoff?

There's going to be way more negative reviews if it doesn't get a Retina display than if it loses a couple hours of its massive battery life.

----------

What performances can you expect with this chip running OS X and in 2x HiDPI with integrated graphics for a retina screen?

Better than ARM is my point.

Still, here's what we know:

• Broadwell at the same CPU performance level will reduce power consumption by 30% over Haswell
• Graphics performance will increase even more
• An 11,5W TDP (6W SDP) Haswell Core i5-4210Y gets a better 3DMark CPU score than a Core 2 Duo E8400 (65W TDP)
• d) The 2010 13" Macbook Air had a 17W TDP Core 2 Duo CPU, with a display resolution of 1440x900. The rumored 2304x1440 has 2.5 times as many pixels (remember, it's smaller).

I know the 3DMark score isn't everything, and the GPU used to be on a separate chip, but it's hard to find pages that will compare mobile CPU's of different generations.
http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/cpu/Intel+Core+i5-4210Y/compare

 

[chleuasme]

Better than ARM is my point.

I don't know what you mean here.

Forgetting the A5X, Apple has been capable to greatly drive the 2048x1536 screen of its iPad with the A6 and the A7 on iOS. All that with great battery life and performances. And that's not talking about the future with in particular even better GPU to come.
It's easy to state that an iOS device with more pixels to drive -like a small iOS notebook, or a larger iPad- wouldn't be a problem. But that remains speculations wether such device is considered or will be released.

I invite you to read my posts on the previous page 25, I've not been talking about OS X on ARM...


Now, for an hypothetical 12" retina Mac notebook, you want an iGPU at least on par with the IRIS 5100 of the current Haswell 13" rMBP in term of performances, and with a lower power consumption. Can you have that with Y-series Broadwell chips?

 

[SmOgER]

When you think about what are the compromises Apple needs to make to introduce retina MacBook Air... I don't really think they will discontinue current line of MBAs.

The compromises are:
1. Worse battery life as a result of the extra battery consumption needed to power retina and compute on such high resolution.

The theoretical solution would be bigger capacity battery maintaining the same size, but I don't think it's possible. And even if it is, the prices will obviously rise much futher.

2. less powerful graphics on native resolution. It is next to impossible that broadwell could offer the same performance on 2560x1600 as HD5000 can offer on 1440x900.


Another road Apple could follow, is offer 1080P LCD instead of 1600P. IMHO that's still plenty and seems like a more reasonable solution. It wouldn't be THAT hard to archieve the similiar performance and battery life like current MBAs, therefore without any compromises it could be called the succesor, not alternative or member of entirely different segment. Moreover, like many of you noticed, MBA looks like current "low-end" of Apple's laptops (even if it isn't low end at all when compared to other ultrabooks), so it's not a given that it must have the genuine retina screen which the more expensive Apple laptops are using.