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Not to be mean but your friends might be stupid...

Netflix has a 4.99 a month plan UNLIMTED RENTALS keep for as long as you want.

Um, you might want to check your facts before you start calling people stupid. Their $4.99 plan is only up to two rentals a month. 1 at a time unlimited is $8.99.

Hmm. Well, if iTunes indeed has a great catalogue of movies available for rental, then that will make sense. However, right now, looking at the ITMS movies section is about as depressing as looking at the handful of titles available via Redbox.

Looking right now doesn't tell you much since it looks like a number of new studios will be joining when they release this - this very thread mentions Warner, Paramount, Disney, Fox, Lions Gate for day one. And while it will start small, it will continue to grow. If it doesn't start with a better selection than redbox right away, it probably will before long.

You can get VOD or PayPerView with pretty much any subscription television service (ie, cable or satellite). You are correct that you need one of these two to get VOD, but that condition excludes, what, 0.5% of the population? Less?

You seriously think 99.5 percent or more of the population has either cable or dish? Really? I'd love to see a stat backing that claim up.

As for an iPod: I'll go out on a limb here and say that approximately no one in their right mind would see an iPod hooked up to their TV as a route to convenient online video delivery. No streaming (so you do have to wait for the whole thing to download before watching), compression artifacts, poor control scheme, etc.

Call me crazy, but I do it all the time. Sure, it's not the most convenient, but it's easy enough for me. And compression artifacts aren't visibly worse than DVD watching on a conventional TV. Have you seen it? It works surprisingly well.

Primarily, people spend $$$ every month on cable or satellite so that they can watch television series when they are aired.

Sure. But for those of us who don't, VOD simply isn't an option.
 
Why not record your mac's screen with SnapzProX or iShowU and save it as a mov file that you can play whenever you like :D

OR, why not just give the people what they want so they don't have to illegally use the product. If netflix and blockbuster let you keep the video as long as you want, why can't the same apply to digital downloads? Limit it to one unit and maybe a lower res ipod version, the renter decides which player is the player they want to watch it on, whether it be your mac or your appletv, and let them watch it unlimited times on that unit. It can't be moved or backed up and wam, everybody is happy.

As I said before, this whole model only really works if you have an appletv.
 
Why not record your mac's screen with SnapzProX or iShowU and save it as a mov file that you can play whenever you like :D

If you're going to pirate it, why not pay nothing and just torrent the damn thing?

OR, why not just give the people what they want so they don't have to illegally use the product. If netflix and blockbuster let you keep the video as long as you want, why can't the same apply to digital downloads?

Because you're paying a monthly fee with netflix. They let you keep a dvd for six months because that means they're making six months subscription fees on the same disk. There's no way to do that with an individual rental, it has to expire at some point.
 
If you're going to pirate it, why not pay nothing and just torrent the damn thing?



Because you're paying a monthly fee with netflix. They let you keep a dvd for six months because that means they're making six months subscription fees on the same disk. There's no way to do that with an individual rental, it has to expire at some point.


Good call on that one. You are right, however, I think having a rental with a longer time frame (like 48-72 hours) would give apple the "look what we can do and the others can't" argument. I think the whole 24 hour rental model came from hotels rentals where you were likely to only stay in the hotel for 24 hours. It just doesn't make sense at home.
 
The attitudes here are incredible. "It doesn't meet my needs so it is doomed to fail." How arrogant people must be to believe everyone else's habits must match their own.

- many people can watch a movie in less than 24 hours.
- many people find going to the video store inconvenient, no matter how close it is
- many people don't like the waiting required by Netflix, and that is if they want to rent two movies in a month
- many people don't have HD DVDs so don't require HD movies

This service is not for everyone, granted. But to say it is doomed is a bit premature.

Would be nice to have a poll on this. I read the entire thread and so far the too expensive and the 24 hour sucks groups are winning. Count them.
 
I've no issues with the 24-hour period (if true) because I see it as an introduction, a baby-step and it'll change. Just like we know the current iPhone is capable of so much more and can be turned on with a firmware update.
I'm patient.
 
My local video store offers 12-hour-rentals for 1 Euro and 24 hours for 2 Euro... if they are really shooting for anything over 2,49 Euro, I am OUT.
 
I have no idea why you guys are dissing this. Sounds great to me. I often think 'Hey I'd like to see this.' and if I could see it for $4? Hell yeah I'd do that. Complaining about size? Get an AppleTV or a bigger monitor.
 
I have no idea why you guys are dissing this. Sounds great to me. I often think 'Hey I'd like to see this.' and if I could see it for $4? Hell yeah I'd do that. Complaining about size? Get an AppleTV or a bigger monitor.

Ah, true, another nail in the coffin :p

Not only is renting a DVD around here cheaper, I can even put it into my PS3 and enjoy it upscaled in great quality on my HDTV.
Beat this, Apple :p
 
Compares to Pay Per View / OnDemand

Well, you have to take this into consideration.



a) Most likely this pricing is due to the bonehead mgmt of the media companies based on previous history

b) People pay nearly similar prices under almost identical conditions for CableTV on-demand or Satellite TV pay-per-view.


DirectTV Pay Per View - $3.99 regular/$4.99 for HD, and you don't get to keep it, but watch it the next time it being shown, and sometimes for as much as you want up to 24 hours.


Dish Network - $3.99 regular / $4.99 for HD. Same as DirectTV, that just buys you access to the channel the program is being shown for either the next showing, or in some cases for 24 hours.


Comcast On-Demand - $3.99 regular / $5.99 for HD. With their PVR you get to keep it and watch it as long as you want until you delete it I think.





So....think again, the prices mentioned here for Apple are NOT OUT OF LINE at all with existing market prices. Sure, they suck compared to NetFlix but, thats a different kind of service.
 
I don't think that's really the point...if apple is charging the same as Amazon, that means that it's probably because that's where they can both afford to set the price based on what the studios charge, right? Apple can't charge $1.99 per rental if the studios demand $2.75 per viewing, right?

By this argument, iTunes Music Store should have started off selling songs for $2.99 a piece with no CD-burning rights and only playable on one system.

Just because the studios are getting a particular deal from one (not exactly wildly popular) service doesn't mean you stick with that deal.

The studios would demand $20 per rental if they thought Apple would go for it. There is no ceiling to their greed, which is good because that's what keeps the whole system turning. Again, though, just because that is what they are willing to negotiate doesn't mean that is what Apple should accept. Apple could have and IMHO should have walked away.
 
So....think again, the prices mentioned here for Apple are NOT OUT OF LINE at all with existing market prices. Sure, they suck compared to NetFlix but, thats a different kind of service.

So, tell me: what is compelling about the 20th entry into a particular market, with no distinguishing features?

The only presumed distinguishing feature I've seen here is an assumed large library. Which seems odd: all the companies mentioned so far are in the purchasable iTMS video store, and the selection there sucks. But, assuming that Apple is able to bring in every single movie ever made. That's a distinguishing feature, but needs to be balanced against the $300 entry fee to buy an :apple:TV.

I don't see how Apple will make inroads into the industry this way. It would be like putting out a cell phone that looks and behaves just like a Treo, except it has an Apple logo instead of a Palm logo, and costs more up front. There has to be a significant positive feature for Apple.

Apple is not a company which thrives in the clone wars. Their primary corporate image is based on innovation. Being just like the rest wastes that brand name.
 
Where exactly did you get these DVDs? They aren't released yet....hmmmm....

-JE

They're Academy screeners. I didn't download or upload 'em. :) In fact they have some kind of embedded security codes to make sure you don't share them.

I was just using them as examples of good but long movies that may take a couple of nights to watch (48 rather than 24 hours).
 
Ah, true, another nail in the coffin :p

Not only is renting a DVD around here cheaper, I can even put it into my PS3 and enjoy it upscaled in great quality on my HDTV.
Beat this, Apple :p

AFAIK, a PS3 is still more expensive than an AppleTV, and, unless you're a gamer (I'm not), you probably don't have one. Same applies to those advocating the use of an XBox 360 as a media center. IMO, these devices simply don't appeal to the general public. However, something that lets you watch movies, display photo slideshows, and play music through your home entertainment system may.
 
I'm ok with $3.99/24-hour. That's what comcast offers
for 4:3 pan and scan standard def rentals. Comcast HD VOD
movies are $5.99/24-hour. Only downside is selection
is limited and new releases come out way after the DVD
release (although I think Comcast will now offer VOD same
day as DVD release now).

We rent Comcast VOD all of the time - much more convenient
than going to the video store.

The rental deal will be a good way to drive AppleTV sales.
They really need to revamp that product though.
If they get this new rental service to work standalone
on an AppleTV, than I might be tempted to buy one.

Give me:
1) Stand-alone AppleTV movie-rentals
2) 480p DVD quality or better
3) Original theatrical aspect ratios (no pan and scan 4:3)
4) Really good up-conversion to 720p when needed
5) 5.1 sound
6) Good selection of movies
7) Same day as DVD release.

Really need all of the above to occur to justify a $300
apple movie rental box (yes, I know it plays your itunes
collection too, I just have little need for that).

I mean, we've already got Comcast and it's getting better and better by the day. Apple really needs to improve the AppleTV
and services if they want to gain traction against their competitors.
 
By this argument, iTunes Music Store should have started off selling songs for $2.99 a piece with no CD-burning rights and only playable on one system.

Just because the studios are getting a particular deal from one (not exactly wildly popular) service doesn't mean you stick with that deal.

The studios would demand $20 per rental if they thought Apple would go for it. There is no ceiling to their greed, which is good because that's what keeps the whole system turning. Again, though, just because that is what they are willing to negotiate doesn't mean that is what Apple should accept. Apple could have and IMHO should have walked away.

If Apple just "walked away", there wouldn't be rentals and there would probably be less movies. I will trust Apple on this. After all, I don't see YOU making software that over 300 million people use.

$4 for 24 hours is ok. Really, think about it. It's NOT going to be ONCE IT'S DOWNLOADED. It's going to be once you start watching it. Why can't most of you get that through your heads?

Also, I'd rather rent a movie through iTunes for $4 than drive to Blockbuster for a new movie that's ALL GONE, and having to settle for some other crap. And if Blockbuster DOES have it, it's $4.75 at least. Then you have to bring it back.

I mean, just how many damn times do you watch a movie that you rent? Everyone has been BEGGING for iTunes rentals, saying that "I don't want to buy a movie on iTunes, since I'm only going to watch it once or twice MAX." Remember that? Yet it's the same people crying that "Apple has screwed the pooch." Get over it.

I can't believe that most of you Mac people keep complaining about everything that Apple does that happens to makes them a greater more RELEVANT company. Remember the iPod complaints? How about the iPhone complaints? I do, and I'm sick of it.

How about waiting until Macworld before you burn your shares.

:apple:
 
Give me:
1) Stand-alone AppleTV movie-rentals
2) 480p DVD quality or better
3) Original theatrical aspect ratios (no pan and scan 4:3)
4) Really good up-conversion to 720p when needed
5) 5.1 sound
6) Good selection of movies
7) Same day as DVD release.

Agreed with all of the above, though I can live with standard Dolby Surround, which is what we're likely to get.
 
If Apple wants to compete with the other services, then it needs to give people a compelling reason to switch.

To be successful, they need a significant majority.

While I love a lot of Apple products, I need a compelling reason to switch, some here only care it is an Apple product so "lets get it". Some here are kids that rent their own movie and some are adult with no families and as such they can sit uninterupted to watch the movie and without having to deal with the schedule of the rest of their non-existing family.

I call on MacRumors to create a poll for HD quality, 24 hour rental and cost.

Lets see what the people in the forum really think with no whine and no bull.
 
I think a lot of people rent so they can watch a movie over a couple of nights.
Since most people work for a living 24 hour rentals will not work.
If I start my movie at 7pm and want to finish the next evening after work then it will expire before I can finish it.
Also HD and 5.1 is a necessity. Especially 5.1.
And an upgraded Apple TV that will allow me to project the movie or I'll just use Netfilx and Blockbuster both of which will be moving to downloadable content this year.
I'm hoping these rumors are not fully flushed out yet.
Come on Apple, lead the way, don't wimp out!
 
So what your saying is if all those companies won't give the videos the way Apple wants them, Apple should abandon the idea? Say Apple says "We'll need these video's in XXX format for this to work", Fox-"No, if the users want it in XXX format they can pay more or go buy the dvd" we should expect Apple to say "well then we won't do this and we're gong to abandon the idea"

Not precisely, but close, yes.

Apple has a realm of possible scenarios to take to market which it believes will benefit them. Fox has a realm of acceptable scenarios which it believes will benefit them. Aside from scenarios which heavily favor one of these two over the other (such as, Apple takes a huge loss per rental, or Fox takes no profit per rental), where they do not overlap either Apple is wrong, or Fox is wrong. Because, if a scenario is "fair" (benefiting both parties roughly equally) and does not benefit one party, then it does not benefit the other party either. QED.

Now, if Apple comes to the table and after fleshing everything out, the best they can do is an offer from Fox which they do not believe will substantially benefit them, then either they are wrong to believe that, or Fox is wrong to believe that this will be a profitable approach. If Apple sticks to its guns, then Fox goes to other companies with similar deals. If Apple was right, either no one takes the deal, or someone takes the deal and both that company and Fox fail in their venture.

This gets complicated when larger strategies come into play, which I suspect is likely the case here (Apple's negotiators are far too smart to take a deal which they believe is not in their best interest). Still, yes, from a consumer's perspective, I'd much rather they walk away from the table, let the unrealistic plan fail, and come back to the table a year later to get a much better deal.

I for one would rather suck it up with 'reasonable' quality at first until the idea catches on. No need to invest to much in something that may or may not take off or be overrun by another service.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but I see no indication that Apple will be able to come back around a year or two later and renegotiate. If anything, renegotiations will tend to favor the studios, not Apple.

It's all about the all mighty dollar and Apple has and is investing some but the real people to stand to loose or gain are the movie companies that count on certain sales.

Hey I'm just being objective here and trying to see what could be a potential reason rather than be a h8r and doing the "It's Apple's fault" thing. It may or may not be them. At least it's happening and again, no one is forcing anyones arm to partake in the service.

First, I wouldn't say "it's Apple's fault". However, Apple isn't acting in the best interests of the consumer when they roll over for the studios' unrealistic demands. There is likely a larger issue at play behind the scenes, and it isn't altogether assured that that is in the consumer's interest either.

Second, "at least it's happening". Was there an unfillable void in your soul when Apple wasn't schlocking the same warez as Amazon and Netflix? I don't see any reason to rejoice over Yet Another Distributor vending movies with no better terms, no better selection, no better price.

Finally, obviously, no one is forcing any of us to partake in the service. I don't think anyone has claimed that here at all. We are, however, claiming that this stinks of a failure of a venture for Apple. We are perfectly within our rights to claim that. And, yes, we claim that precisely because no one is forcing us to use this service. There is no compelling reason for us to use it. That's why it's likely to fail!
 
Um, you might want to check your facts before you start calling people stupid. Their $4.99 plan is only up to two rentals a month. 1 at a time unlimited is $8.99.

You are correct. It's 8.99 for unlimted one at a time. STILL A HELL OF A BETTER DEAL for the average consumer.

8.99 NETFLIX for the WIN!
 
$4 for 24 hours is ok. Really, think about it. It's NOT going to be ONCE IT'S DOWNLOADED. It's going to be once you start watching it. Why can't most of you get that through your heads?

Spoken like a man who has no children.. I can not tell you how many time we started watching movie A and the kids need us. So we pause or stop the movie and than it's too late so we decide to finish it tomorrow of the next day. In this scenario I would have to re-purchase it. which is plain ******.
 
Basicly ... $3.99 DVD's?

So couldn't you just use a screen capturing app and record the movie, then put it on a DVD (Or possibly Blu-Ray if they introduce the drive)? I am okay with this... $3.99 DVDs!!!:D
 
If Apple just "walked away", there wouldn't be rentals and there would probably be less movies. I will trust Apple on this. After all, I don't see YOU making software that over 300 million people use.

Quite true. I am not Apple. Users of software I had a hand in writing number in the hundreds of thousands, not hundreds of millions :)

More importantly, though, I don't have a brand based around innovation and leadership.

Still, just because I'm not the President of the US doesn't mean I can't criticize his policies and occasionally call him a schmuck!

$4 for 24 hours is ok. Really, think about it. It's NOT going to be ONCE IT'S DOWNLOADED. It's going to be once you start watching it. Why can't most of you get that through your heads?

I agree this is most likely. Although, as nothing has been announced yet, and the published rumors leave this detail out so far as I've seen, I think people are correct in stating that it might not be so. Relax.

I mean, just how many damn times do you watch a movie that you rent?

Me, personally? Pretty much always once. Sometimes, I'll watch it one night and my wife the next. Also sometimes, we'll start watching it one night, and finish watching it a few nights later. Every once in a while, we'll watch it one night, then tell a friend about it and they'll watch it with us again another night, all on the same rental dime.

Everyone has been BEGGING for iTunes rentals, saying that "I don't want to buy a movie on iTunes, since I'm only going to watch it once or twice MAX." Remember that? Yet it's the same people crying that "Apple has screwed the pooch." Get over it.

I don't see why the above is a contradiction. A short 24-hour time window definitely affects those who only watch movies once as well.

Think about it: why would studios demand a 24-hour window instead of a 14-day window which you effectively get with most Blockbuster rentals (speaking of 7-day rentals, where there is "no late charge" until you are 7 additional days late, at which point there is a $1.50 restocking fee or you buy it). There is no limited quantity of physical disks to manage here. A 14-day rental is still substantially separated from a disk purchase (if I purchase a DVD movie, it's because I want to be able to show it to someone a year or so later, not the next night or weekend).

They do this because a substantial portion of users will need to rent it twice to get the utility they would otherwise have gleaned from a 1-week rental. They would not demand such if there wasn't a significant portion of re-rentals in play.


I can't believe that most of you Mac people keep complaining about everything that Apple does that happens to makes them a greater more RELEVANT company. Remember the iPod complaints? How about the iPhone complaints? I do, and I'm sick of it.

I fail to see how making themselves indistinguishable from Charter and COX and Unbox makes Apple more relevant. It dilutes the brand, with no upside.
 
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