Warning to those buying new Apple laptops

[Dark Void]

Others have stated so already, but this is unfortunately one of the big drawbacks of soldered/glued components. If one part goes, it all goes.

Sure, you save physical space in some cases, and there are other positives that I am learning about, but when it comes to things like upgradability, and repairs as some people seem to forget, this reality ends up being not as wonderful as what it provides.

I personally think it is partially a move to corner BTO configurations at ridiculous premiums, and repair costs via an example given here. Very sorry to hear about your laptop, being so young and having one if its main components not functioning. I hope you find a solution to your issue soon.

 

[drambuie]

With the prices quoted, the best option would be to have an out of warranty battery replacement. On the Retina MBPs the battery replacement includes a new top plate. The US price is $199. If you get it done at an authorized Apple repair depot, it would be at the UK price specified by Apple.

 

[newellj]

You're missing the point - it's not just the "few screws" it's the fact that you then need mounting points and need to define the shape of the battery more carefully and the materials it is made from. This results in a decrease in capacity.

Completely correct - look at the elaborate effort that went into the redesign of the terraced cells for the rMB. Of course, this only matters if size and weight matters, but that horse has left the barn.

 

[maflynn]

Right, I don't think the new one has any moving parts.

If I'm understanding your post, the new keyboard does in fact fact have moving parts, a uses a butterfly setup instead of the scissors. They're still mechanical

 

[Chundles]

Dude, you're in the UK - you have rights beyond the standard warranty. Look up your consumer laws man.

 

[Freyqq]

The only part that was unnecessary to glue in was the battery. I'll take an extra mm of thickness with the ability to easily replace the battery - the only part that is expected to die after so much use.

 

[aristobrat]

If I'm understanding your post, the new keyboard does in fact fact have moving parts, a uses a butterfly setup instead of the scissors. They're still mechanical

Sorry that my post wasn't totally clear, but I meant trackpad.

 

[scaredpoet]

Yes but recycling and creating new parts is not good for the environment (due to the energy used in their melting down and recreated)

The energy used in melting down a part is less than mining new aluminum to create the same part. And regardless, there will be someone out there who will want to buy a new Mac, or iPad, or iPhone or Watch. Removing the recycled supply doesn't change the demand.

 

[hallux]

At a much higher environmental impact - As it is glued down they replace the whole top case. Same as when the keyboard breaks, or the trackpad which is something that breaks more than you'd think (thought the new one is probably more reliable).

Do you seriously think Apple just bins the entire topcase when they replace one under warranty? It gets sent to a facility to be disassembled and any repairs made so it can be used as a reconditioned part for another warranty repair. Just because the battery is glued in does not mean it can NEVER be removed from the aluminum. I would bet they even recycle the components of the battery and use them to make new ones if possible.

 

[Count Blah]

This why I still have my 2012 cMBP. 16 gigs of ram and SSDs. Still going strong, and still happy with it.

 

[Badrottie]

If computer or laptop costs over $1,200 then better get 3 years extended warranty. I only bought $600 Compaq laptop with $40 for 4 years warranty then what happened? My roommate stolen it from me and sold it to Pawn store. What a waste!

 

[bunnspecial]

I've read this discussion with great interest. I have yet to buy any "glued together" computers. I know its inevitable one of these days(at least if Apple keeps going the direction they are, which I think is likely).

In fact, I just recently bought what was sort of my dream machine around the time I bought my first Mac(but couldn't afford a better model) a gently used, still under Apple Care, mid-2012 15" with the high resolution matte screen. The late 2011 models were still current when I bought my first Mac, but got excited about even the "classic" mid-2012 models thanks to the addition of USB 3.0 and also a few other improvements(namely Ivy Bridge, although it wasn't as big of an improvement over Sandy bridge as Haswell was over Ivy Bridge).

All that said, though, the trackpad died on my late 2011 13" when it was still under Apple Care. The repair, of course, was covered but I've always received a print-out detailing what the repair cost would have been. I think it was around $110 or $120, which I though was fairly reasonable given what's involved. Granted, on the classic models, once you remove the hard drive and(screwed down) battery you have fairly clear access to the trackpad, but the part is $70 or $80 by itself even from 3rd party sellers.

It's sort of disappointed to me that a repair like this has suddenly become a LOT more expensive.

Overall, though, Apple products(especially portables) have seen a definite decline in repairability over the past several years. Replacing a keyboard on an iBook or Titanium Powerbook is a 5 minute job if you know what you're doing and-depending on the specific model-may not even require any tools. At the worst, you'll need a flathead screwdriver to unlock the "lock" and maybe a Phillips head screwdriver to remove an access panel. Move up to the Powerbooks/non-Unibody Macbook Pros and the keyboard can be replaced although it's usually easier to change the top case(which has a lot fewer parts on it than the top case of a unibody). Someone who knows what they're doing can probably change a top case in 30 minutes on one of these. I have swapped keyboards(mainly because I had a better condition top case that didn't have a keyboard), although there are about a dozen small screws, several tabs that have to be bent, and reinstalling the keyboard requires a lot of manipulation to get everything locked down correctly. The same thing about the top case is true of a the pre-unibody Macbook. Replacing a keyboard on a unibody Macbook/Macbook Pro(classic) requires basically taking apart the entire computer.

 

[Cattywampus_]

Dude, you're in the UK - you have rights beyond the standard warranty. Look up your consumer laws man.

Meh - this is an unbelievably sore point with me. I didn't know about these additional rights outside the 12 month warranty.

What I didn't include in my post as it's not really relevant to the topic is that I tried to fix the trackpads lack of clicky-ness by putting the flat edge of a plastic spudger between the trackpad and the casing in the hope it would free a bit of dirt or whatever that might have been causing it.

Anyway, what happened was the glass coating on the trackpad shattered and made it totally not work. If I had known about these additional rights in the UK I wouldn't have touched it.

My original point still stands though. £450 to repair a trackpad is obscene.

With the prices quoted, the best option would be to have an out of warranty battery replacement. On the Retina MBPs the battery replacement includes a new top plate. The US price is $199. If you get it done at an authorized Apple repair depot, it would be at the UK price specified by Apple.

I am looking into this now. I would imagine Apple will argue that either a) the battery doesn't fail diagnostics and therefore I do not quality for the battery replacement service (even if I am paying out of warranty) or b) they will say cause of the damage to the trackpad, they won't honour the £159 price.


I know a lot of you guys are going on about the environment and stuff, and I am all for saving the planet and going green. But it just seems wrong to expect the individual to pay for replacement parts that don't need replacing. Why do I have to pay for X,Y and Z when only A is broken.

And to those commenting on that I should have bought Applecare... Yes I should have. I have had such a good experience with Apple laptops though; not a single issue with 3 years across multiple computers, most of which I DID buy Applecare for and never used it.

It's sods law though that the one time I choose not to is the one time I get bitten in the ass.

 

[KazuSnow]

The solution shouldn't be buy Applecare - for one these things should last longer.

...Live in a better country, Australian laws mandate that this would have to be repaired by apple for a period of two years. I believe Italy is the same, and may have better (worse for apple) policies to protect buyers.

 

[brtate2]

remove the battery if it is in the way... ideas how to do that...

then adjust trackpad spring tension or replace trackpad
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MacBook...155?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9fb87a4b

Or buy full upper case assembly with battery, trackpad, keyboard. Buy on ebay for about $160 USD...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MacBook-Pro...616?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a53c13dc0

 

[oldmacs]

...Live in a better country, Australian laws mandate that this would have to be repaired by apple for a period of two years. I believe Italy is the same, and may have better (worse for apple) policies to protect buyers.

I am in Australia - And yes 2 years is good. I still think though Apple should offer 3 years of warranty standard.. it shouldn't be up to consumer law for the amount you pay for a Mac.

 

[Queen6]

Meh - this is an unbelievably sore point with me. I didn't know about these additional rights outside the 12 month warranty.

What I didn't include in my post as it's not really relevant to the topic is that I tried to fix the trackpads lack of clicky-ness by putting the flat edge of a plastic spudger between the trackpad and the casing in the hope it would free a bit of dirt or whatever that might have been causing it.

Anyway, what happened was the glass coating on the trackpad shattered and made it totally not work. If I had known about these additional rights in the UK I wouldn't have touched it.

My original point still stands though. £450 to repair a trackpad is obscene.



I am looking into this now. I would imagine Apple will argue that either a) the battery doesn't fail diagnostics and therefore I do not quality for the battery replacement service (even if I am paying out of warranty) or b) they will say cause of the damage to the trackpad, they won't honour the £159 price.


I know a lot of you guys are going on about the environment and stuff, and I am all for saving the planet and going green. But it just seems wrong to expect the individual to pay for replacement parts that don't need replacing. Why do I have to pay for X,Y and Z when only A is broken.

And to those commenting on that I should have bought Applecare... Yes I should have. I have had such a good experience with Apple laptops though; not a single issue with 3 years across multiple computers, most of which I DID buy Applecare for and never used it.

It's sods law though that the one time I choose not to is the one time I get bitten in the ass.

Just speaking dead straight, you "had a go" yourself and cracked the trackpad, than ripped it out of the chassis due to "rage" so what to say. Apple knows the game, so as far as they are concerned you have deliberately damaged the Notebook. I have no side with Apple, I also agree that the repair costs carry way too much margin, equally this is what it is...

Q-6

 

[shoehornhands]

At those suggesting he should have purchased Applecare, take some time to research and fully understand extended warranties from the perspective of the companies offering them. They are almost never worth purchasing.

With most consumer electronics, the great majority of the time, any issues will pop up right away (within the first few days or weeks of use). Rarely does a product work flawlessly for the first 90 days, 1-year (the usual time frame for a standard manufacturer's warranty) and then break within the next year or two (during the extended warranty period), without being due to some form of accidental damage / user error (which isn't usually covered anyway).

Also, don't forget that even if something does happen to your MacBook Pro for example, you still spent $349 on Applecare so if something breaks that would cost you $200-$300 to fix, Applecare still hasn't payed for itself.

Lastly, with Apple or any computer / hardware manufacturer, when there is an issue, it's often the result of a more widespread manufacturing / design flaw. When this occurs, a recall is issued by the 3rd party (e.g. Nvidia, Intel, ATI, etc.) and you'll be covered regardless of whether you purchased Applecare or not.

Extended warranties are a huge source of revenue for companies (why do you think they try so hard to sell you on them?) and Apple / Applecare is no exception.

You may make out on an extended warranty every now and then (and I'm sure there are a few exceptions out there that have made out in the long run too), but for the great majority of us, you'll save money by avoiding extended warranties on electronics all together. On those rare occasions where something does break on its own outside the standard manufacturer's warranty period, you can pay for it out of the mounds of cash you've saved from avoiding extended warranties.

Sorry for my "sort of" rant but extended warranties (i.e. companies turning the potential failure of their own product into a mechanism for profit) are one of those things that really gets me going.

 

[Queen6]

At those suggesting he should have purchased Applecare, take some time to research and fully understand extended warranties from the perspective of the companies offering them. They are almost never worth purchasing.

With most consumer electronics, the great majority of the time, any issues will pop up right away (within the first few days or weeks of use). Rarely does a product work flawlessly for the first 90 days, 1-year (the usual time frame for a standard manufacturer's warranty) and then break within the next year or two (during the extended warranty period), without being due to some form of accidental damage / user error (which isn't usually covered anyway).

Also, don't forget that even if something does happen to your MacBook Pro for example, you still spent $349 on Applecare so if something breaks that would cost you $200-$300 to fix, Applecare still hasn't payed for itself.

Lastly, with Apple or any computer / hardware manufacturer, when there is an issue, it's often the result of a more widespread manufacturing / design flaw. When this occurs, a recall is issued by the 3rd party (e.g. Nvidia, Intel, ATI, etc.) and you'll be covered regardless of whether you purchased Applecare or not.

Extended warranties are a huge source of revenue for companies (why do you think they try so hard to sell you on them?) and Apple / Applecare is no exception.

You may make out on an extended warranty every now and then (and I'm sure there are a few exceptions out there that have made out in the long run too), but for the great majority of us, you'll save money by avoiding extended warranties on electronics all together. On those rare occasions where something does break on its own outside the standard manufacturer's warranty period, you can pay for it out of the mounds of cash you've saved from avoiding extended warranties.

Sorry for my "sort of" rant but extended warranties (i.e. companies turning the potential failure of their own product into a mechanism for profit) are one of those things that really gets me going.

Definitely agree the likes of Apple Care will only be truly useful if it was to cover accidental damage, as it stands Apple gains far more than the average customer. I have owned Mac`s significantly predating Apple Care and never has issue and or cause to claim against such a product. Had I bought Apple Care systematically I would easily be a couple of "high end" 15" rMBP`s out of pocket for nothing more than a little "peace of mind"

In general electronics tend to follow the "bathtub" theory;

Although this is a very simplistic approach it`s often a model that proves to be accurate for many complex electronics systems. The same theory is also a employed by reliability engineers amongst other more complex models. If your going pay for a product such as Apple Care it`s worthwhile considering one that covers accidental damage, as what Apple currently offers is both a limited and relatively expensive product...

Q-6

 

[throAU]

All part of Apple's land-fill policy. Will they send the old top-case back to the factory to be refurbished? or will it end up in the ground in a third world country? In my opinion Apple are very wrong to be producing computers that have to be replaced almost in their entirety rather than replace the little part that isn't working.

It will be recycled, being aluminium.

 

[Count Blah]

If computer or laptop costs over $1,200 then better get 3 years extended warranty. I only bought $600 Compaq laptop with $40 for 4 years warranty then what happened? My roommate stolen it from me and sold it to Pawn store. What a waste!

And yours is a case that is likely to happen, why? 75-90% of everyone reading this? Or more likely 0.0001%, so as to be a unique situation, that no one should ever worry about?

 

[Rusty33]

All part of Apple's land-fill policy. Will they send the old top-case back to the factory to be refurbished? or will it end up in the ground in a third world country? In my opinion Apple are very wrong to be producing computers that have to be replaced almost in their entirety rather than replace the little part that isn't working.

Sadly spot on. All in the name of 'thin' and 'light'. Not that such construction is Apple specific anymore. Would an ASUS be any better?

 

[Cattywampus_]

Just an update of where I am at at the moment:

I e-mail the authorised service centres I got quotes from asking whether I could put the computer through for a battery replacement and gain an working trackpad that way. As expected, they said no. In order to do this, the battery has to fail diagnostic tests and even if the battery were damaged, there would likely be more costs due to the damaged trackpad.

So I contacted Applecare over the phone again (I was trying to call the closest Apple store and speak to them directly but couldn't get through). He suggested I go to the Apple store and explain what has happened and see if there is any compromise on the repair costs.

I've found a UK based website that seem to sell the individual components all Graded A. They would cost about £230 + P&P, but theoretically I could buy them and fit them myself. But I am in two minds; yes I want to pay as little as possible to get a working trackpad, but on such an expensive item, I am just thinking I will pay the obscene £400+ to get it done by professionals and know the parts and work are top quality.

I won't be letting this lie though. I have written an e-mail to Tim Cook about this. As I have already said, my issue with what they have done is caused what should be a reasonably inexpensive component replacement to become a hugely expensive job that replaces components that are in perfect working order.

A logical person would examine the computer, realise that the trackpad is obviously in need of replacement, but the keyboard, battery and top case are not in need of replacement. It is not my fault that Apple built a computer that makes it hard to repair. I should pay for the components that NEED replacing... not the parts that must be replaced because it's impossible to replace that part alone.

If you take your car to a mechanic, he doesn't replace the whole engine because you spark plugs need replacing.

 

[yjchua95]

It is not my fault that Apple built a computer that makes it hard to repair. I should pay for the components that NEED replacing... not the parts that must be replaced because it's impossible to replace that part alone.

It is YOUR fault for not having done research before purchasing the product. It is also YOUR fault for not having purchased the AppleCare option.

If you did your research beforehand, you would have known that these parts are either all glued or soldered together, and if one thing breaks, the whole thing has to be replaced.

Like for instance, when my Canon EOS 5D Mk3's CMOS sensor went bust, they replaced the entire logic board, because the sensor was part of the board.

Remember, caveat emptor applies.

Tim Cook will just sweep your email under the carpet. I don't think you would gain much sympathy around here either.

 

[Cattywampus_]

It is YOUR fault for not having done research before purchasing the product. It is also YOUR fault for not having purchased the AppleCare option.

If you did your research beforehand, you would have known that these parts are either all glued or soldered together, and if one thing breaks, the whole thing has to be replaced.

Like for instance, when my Canon EOS 5D Mk3's CMOS sensor went bust, they replaced the entire logic board, because the sensor was part of the board.

Remember, caveat emptor applies.

Tim Cook will just sweep your email under the carpet. I don't think you would gain much sympathy around here either.

Totally disagree.
Lets imagine you're an average person who knows little about computers and you go in to an Apple store and speak to a 'genius' about wanting to buy a new Macbook Pro. Nobody is going to tell you the massive repair costs if you accidentally damage part x. They will probably persuade you to buy Applecare, which doesn't cover accidental damage.

How I feel about the subject is my opinion, and if some here believe Apple is doing the right thing by making me pay for replacement components that don't need replacing... that is fine.

What Apple has done is make a very nice computer that is nice a slim and looks good and performs well...that costs a small fortune (£2500 in my case), and then forcing users who accidentally damage components like the trackpad to pick up the tab for the components that don't need replacing.

I should be paying for a trackpad and nothing else. If that means I need a new top case, keyboard and battery then fine. But I don't see why individuals like myself who have saved for years to buy their dream laptop should then be force to pay over the odds for repairs that involves replacing components that are working.

I think anyone here who says Apple is in the right obviously has enough money to just pay £400 for the repair bill. Its the little people who have to scrape every last penny they have and borrow off family to get enough money to repair the MBP.

£400 for repairs on a 15month laptop that cost £2500. That is like 16% to spend again. Marvellous.