WayTools' TextBlade Keyboard to Start Shipping to Test Group Users Next Week

[dabigkahuna]

Update on TREG testing:

Personally, I seem to usually be up to typing my old speed already - 50 to 60 wpm for the ordinary stuff I do. That means minimal symbols. Occasionally I'll get over 60 just like I occasionally could on the old keyboard.

General impressions from all the TREG testers have been extremely positive with a number of them specifically saying the thought they would switch to using the TextBlade all the time, which I am also doing. Very positive comments about key feel when typing and the minimal distance fingers have to move, thus reducing stress.

There are some occasional issues. For example, I had my TB act really badly just after coming into contact with magnets and it took awhile to go back to normal. WT said that shouldn't happen, but they have updated the firmware to help that. I have that version but have not tested that again. They want me to but I'm spending today first making sure other things are working fine before doing that test. Another tester said theirs acted up after their child played with the device, repeatedly connecting and disconnecting the pieces. WT said that could cause confusion in the device. Again, we hope this is fixed.

So, while there are issues to deal with, the benefits of the device seem so strong that we still prefer the TB in spite of those things. But the various issue do have to be dealt with. So far with the latest firmware update, I've seen the issues I've reported doing much better.

I just reviewed all my reports to WT about problems. I had sent in 6, not counting the special case about my magnets. All 6 things have worked very well today at least.

 

[dabigkahuna]

TREG testing is continuing and improvements are being made. We are waiting on Apple to approve the latest app version for testers so we can check some things out that the old app doesn't cover well enough. Nothing major to worry about though. And a new firmware version is coming this week that we hope fixed some things previous reported by testers.

 

[dabigkahuna]

WayTools has been sending out test units to more people. We don't know exactly why, but one logical theory is that the units being sent out will have come off the regular assembly line with all the fixes in place - as opposed to ones they fixed by hand in California that were sent out to the first group. Another reason could be that once any group has worked with the device for awhile, they are going to fall into habits and so any changes made from their testing won't have the same effect on them as someone brand new to the device. Both make sense, but we may never know for sure.

There have announced a small hardware issue they want to correct even though it was pretty rare. I don't know if the new test units being sent out already have this fix included or not. I hope so as it would make it more likely this may be near to regular shipping. Little quirks do exist and they are making some tweaks to correct them in firmware.

My typing is much better. Pretty much always 50+ wpm and often over 60. I can get streaks over 70 and even over 80, but those are only for fractions of a minute. My speeds on a regular keyboard were rarely over 60. Usually 40s and 50s.

Oh, and while some hardware updates are being made to existing units, they have given us some nice stuff - like a quick way to change the layout to a typical number pad that locks in so you can enter numbers far faster in spreadsheets, etc.

 

[Kabeyun]

dabigkahuna, please, for the love of all that's holy, please stop posting for a bit. If nothing else, someone's bound to start wondering if you work for WayTools.

 

[dabigkahuna]

please stop posting for a bit. If nothing else, someone's bound to start wondering if you work for WayTools.

Well, let's review. First, people assumed I worked for WayTools right after I first defended them againt bogus criticism so nothing new there.

So let's just focus or my posting here and consider actual facts.

1. As far as I know, I'm the only person who is part of the TREG testing of the TextBlade who is here. At least the only one posting. So if I don't, then no one can get information about this on this site.

2. I've had people here, publicly and privately, ask me to keep updated information here once testing started.

3. Devices were first delivered to testers on March 28th. Starting from the first arrivals, I posted as follows, starting almost exactly 17 days ago:

One post about testers reports on March 28
Four posts on March 29 - three of which were responding to questions from others.
One post on March 30
Five posts on March 31 - four of which were responding to questions from others.

So, in the four days when there would be the most new information, I post a total of 11 times and 7 of those were responding to questions!

My next post wasn't until April 2nd. The next wasn't until April 6th and the one after that was April 10th. The last one was April 13. So, even though this is a period of time when a lot of stuff is coming out, I did just 4 posts on it in 13 days of April. I hardly think that is excessive. Especially since I'm the only one available to provide the updates.

 

[Mac128guy]

@dabigkahuna Ignore the naysayers. Many of us like and truly appreciate your posts and can't wait to see how things turn out for Waytools. They have had a rough go at it but if they can fix some of these issues and get their product out for general sale, it seems they could have a hit on their hands. Keep the updates coming!

 

[dabigkahuna]

@dabigkahuna Many of us like and truly appreciate your posts and can't wait to see how things turn out for Waytools.

Thanks. I wasn't expecting to post again this soon, but something happened I think is important so I'll post it here as well as on the WayTools forum.

But first, one of the brand new testers just posted a fantastic review of the device and what is going on so here is a link right to it. Best job I've seen:

https://forum.waytools.com/t/the-re...g-treg-first-impressions-post-i-promised/1608


My post:


We've seen the complaints for the past year, and many have questioned whether WT cares about their customers. Likewise that they are in over their heads.

Well, while the fact remains that they haven't been good about communication, I feel quite comfortable in saying they do care about their customers and they definitely are NOT in over their heads.

An example happened tonight, though it is traceable back to the early part of TREG testing.

I reported a problem getting symbols (ones you get by holding the space bar while hitting another key) instead of the letter I expected. After I sent them some test data about it, they changed the firmware in some way and, wow, it seemed to solve the problem. They gave it out to some other testers and it created problems for them! So they sent me another version which, I guess, kinda split the difference. And my problems came back. Maybe not as bad, but a definite hassle.

It all had to do with timing on the space bar and how many different ways people type. In my case, I tended to leave my thumb down a fraction of a second longer than the other testers.

My expectation was that, since the testers I knew didnt have my problem, that I'd just have to learn to type differently in ways people don't even think about. Well, I was wrong. We got a Thursday night app update which should also have allowed us to download the new firmware. Except I could only get the app, not the firmware. So I was very surprised to get another call from Mark, who was calling to talk to me about what the change was all about because it had to do with the issues I reported.

First we had to deal with the fact that the new app didn't show the new stuff so, while we were on the phone, he got that working. Then he got his people to get the firmware update where I could download it. And we went through what my test logs showed I was doing compared to the others.

He didn't take the easy way out and tell me I'd have to adjust to be like most people. Nope, they put a filter in the set-up area that lets you choose how the space bar works. For some, they'll choose 20 ms. For me, that is a disaster. For most, they'll leave it at 50 ms. For me, I put it at 100 - and the problem goes away!

How many keyboards allow such personalized control? How many businesses would bother making the effort to help a minority of typists?

No, this doesn't mean lack of communication is okay. But it does show they are trying to give the customer the best device they can and the differences really do matter.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Not a lot to report. Few issues brought up and, of those I've seen, they seem to be minor. Like occasionally when I try to jump to a new device it won't on the first try. Not a constant problem and I'm testing by jumping back and forth over and over again so no a big deal to just hit the jump keys again.

Most testers I know about have been working on testing with Android and other systems and even getting it to work with bluetooth dongles for those systems which don't have the latest version.

Haven't heard anything from WT as to what the big picture is. Hope that is a good sign that there is no special area for us to check out.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Yes, we are still waiting for regular shipping. Not much has been said. TREG testers that I know have not been reporting much in the way of problems though there have been a few things which may or may not be just quirks in individual units.

One person (not a tester) reported that he contacted WT and they said they would be making an update (next week). Hope they do it Monday. We know they review their progress on Mondays and then often post very late Monday nights. But it could refer to any time next week. If they are "on time".

 

[bobdobalina]

Holi

dabigkahuna, please, for the love of all that's holy, please stop posting for a bit. If nothing else, someone's bound to start wondering if you work for WayTools.

DBK was already accused of that many times. But he's such a true believer that it's hard to believe he could be faking it. He's might be wrong about WayTools, but I don't think he's making it up. Just misguided in his faith in WayTools. He's the TextBlade fan we all wish we could be, if WayTools would deliver.

Like everyone else, he doesn't have a clue when TextBlade will ship, if ever, or if never.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Just misguided in his faith in WayTools.

In what way? I've said many times WT has been bad about communication, etc. I've also said I don't believe they are "frauds" or that the TB doesn't really exist or other things they have been accused of.

I think the fact that a number of forum members have gotten a TREG unit and have reported very positively on it pretty well confirms my evaluations have been pretty much correct. Both positive and negative things since I still report that WT needs to tell us more.

So I don't see where I've been misguided about anything.

There have been things reported from TREG testers that I consider pretty vague because, as most know, WT tends to say thing that sound good, but under closer examination are really very vague. So when someone reports what they were told, without having the exact words, I don't know if their descriptions are spot on or if some of it was their assumptions. But, for what it's worth, it has been said only hardware is the gating factor, not firmware. That was awhile back though so even if true then, something could have come up. Another statement was that they had enough inventory stockpiled to fill all orders so far. That would be very good, though we have no idea how long it will take to make the hardware adjustments or even at what point they will decide it is safe to begin doing so.
[doublepost=1461546005][/doublepost]

Like everyone else, he doesn't have a clue when TextBlade will ship, if ever, or if never.

Not quite. At this point I feel pretty safe in saying it will ship. Can't guarantee it, but I think the odds are quite solid for that. Don't know when though, other than to say the known Treg testers haven't been reporting new problems that I know of.

 

[bobdobalina]

In what way? I've said many times WT has been bad about communication, etc. I've also said I don't believe they are "frauds" or that the TB doesn't really exist or other things they have been accused of.

I think the fact that a number of forum members have gotten a TREG unit and have reported very positively on it pretty well confirms my evaluations have been pretty much correct. Both positive and negative things since I still report that WT needs to tell us more.

So I don't see where I've been misguided about anything.

There have been things reported from TREG testers that I consider pretty vague because, as most know, WT tends to say thing that sound good, but under closer examination are really very vague. So when someone reports what they were told, without having the exact words, I don't know if their descriptions are spot on or if some of it was their assumptions. But, for what it's worth, it has been said only hardware is the gating factor, not firmware. That was awhile back though so even if true then, something could have come up. Another statement was that they had enough inventory stockpiled to fill all orders so far. That would be very good, though we have no idea how long it will take to make the hardware adjustments or even at what point they will decide it is safe to begin doing so.
[doublepost=1461546005][/doublepost]

Not quite. At this point I feel pretty safe in saying it will ship. Can't guarantee it, but I think the odds are quite solid for that. Don't know when though, other than to say the known Treg testers haven't been reporting new problems that I know of.

"or that the TB doesn't really exist"

This is a total red-herring and you know it. Almost no one has implied TextBlade doesn't exist, not since almost a year ago when it could be questioned. Obviously TextBlade prototypes exist because you have one. Almost 100% of the real criticism boils down to WayTools not fulfilling their thirteen consecutive monthly stated shipping estimates for the finished product they said they developed over one year ago.

You have acknowledged some of their more benign faults. I will just say that you have a strong tendency to take them at their word and to vouch for their good intentions, even when their statements are repeatedly not accurate or outright deceptive. They are not merely vague, they outright evade of the truth, over and over again. They don't just have poor communications, they mislead their customers. It's not a matter of perspective, there is pretty strong documentation of this.

You have a test unit, but you have to admit that to receive it you had to sign a non disclosure agreement, and you had to accept the fact that WayTools can deactivate your device should they choose to.

After you received your test unit, WayTools announced they are making hardware revisions. Therefore, you don't have a finished product. You paid for the test unit that you have. It's not the final design. WayTools can deactivate this at the time of their choosing. Therefore, you don't really have a Textlade, at least not the one you paid for.

 

[dabigkahuna]

I will just say that you have a strong tendency to take them at their word and to vouch for their good intentions, even when their statements are repeatedly not accurate or outright deceptive.

Didn't vouch for them. I take people at their word until I actually catch them lying. Actually lying as opposed to assuming they are. I covered chis in more detail in the other thread. I do not make negative accusations, presented as fact, when they are assumptions and opinion.

Yep, I signed an NDA and, yep, they can deactivate my device. Many have made an issue about that and I see no reason to do so. NDAs are NORMAL so why make a big deal about this one, except out of frustration? And this NDA is extremely lenient. We can say almost anything we want to anyone. We simply can't reveal information about upcoming products we are told about and they ask that we give them a week to deal with any problems we discover before speaking publicly about them. Very reasonable.

As for being able to deactivate the device, so what? Should they let someone violate their agreement and continue using it anyway? Of course not. I don't know of a single tester who feels this is a problem or even a threat.

And since they have their one year guarantee for upgrading, your logic could say regular customers don't have their real TD (once they ship) because they can upgrade it. Not a convincing argument!

 

[bobdobalina]

WayTools Twitter timeline is a riot:

Release candidates look good! Mechanical & electrical HW meet all QA standards. Minor firmware refinements being made (info on Status page)

That's from 10 July, 2015, see for yourself.

July of 2015 they told the world that their hardware was ready and that they just needed to make a few tweaks to code. Fast forward to April 2016 and they're telling people that they can make firmware changes easily but they need to tweak the hardware. LMFAO.

 

[dabigkahuna]

WayTools Twitter timeline is a riot:

That's from 10 July, 2015, see for yourself.

July of 2015 they told the world that their hardware was ready and that they just needed to make a few tweaks to code. Fast forward to April 2016 and they're telling people that they can make firmware changes easily but they need to tweak the hardware. LMFAO.

This doesn't contradict anything I said.

 

[bobdobalina]

This doesn't contradict anything I said.

True, but that post wasn't directed at you specifically.

 

[MentalFloss]

Well, I ordered a TextBlade today, knowing full well that the promised shipping window of June 2016 is probably not correct. After all, the availability calendar indicated shipments for April that are supposedly already sold out, but no shipments have been happening in April as far as I know. So yes, I ordered, despite knowing that I am being lied to.

Why did I order now? Because I believe that the actual shipping is now getting close. It may not be around the corner, but I think it's going to happen in the next few months. And no, I don't get that from WT's silly Twitter updates but simply from the fact that the whole thing had one year to mature from the first prototype stage, and that sounds about right.

Yes, there is sufficient reason to get upset about WT and to boycott them, but let's face it: Practically all companies that are trying to release something audacious as this are lying to their customers. As an example, I am backing a game called "The Universim" on Kickstarter. During the Kickstarter campaign in 2014, they made it look as if they had a near-finished version that just needed to be tested and polished They made it look like they were less than half a year away from releasing an Alpha version and stated that the only reason why they hadn't released it already were a few fixes here and there. Truth is that they didn't have anything during the Kickstarter campaign. The video was apparently a complete fake. They are probably a minimum of two years behind the original schedule now - not due to the usual hickups but simply due to the original schedule being a complete lie.

Am I mad? Sure! But this is apparently the way things work with all these projects that are powered either directly or indirectly by social media. It looks like you have to lie about the status of your project, or else you get drowned out by people who do lie. If you don't lie enough, then others who lie more than you get all the attention. If you want people to pre-order, don't admit that you will ship in 1 1/2 years. Very few people pre-order something that they won't get for 18 months. Tell them that you will ship in 2 months, and they'll get excited. And suddenly, there are pre-orders coming in, which means there is money, and you also get the attention of investors who might end up saving your project when you run out of money two years later.

So yes, lying is not cool, but that is the way the Kickstarter Age works. I think we'll have to accept it and should instead focus on the difference between Kickliars (people who overpromise) and Kickscammers (people who grab the money and run). At least it looks to me like the WT guys are not scammers but just the usual liars.

 

[Night Spring]

So yes, lying is not cool, but that is the way the Kickstarter Age works. I think we'll have to accept it and should instead focus on the difference between Kickliars (people who overpromise) and Kickscammers (people who grab the money and run). At least it looks to me like the WT guys are not scammers but just the usual liars.

If TextBlade had been a Kickstarter project, I might agree. But they presented themselves as a company with a product ready to ship. That, to me, is a step beyond the Kickliars, because by virtue of placing their produçt on Kickstarter, there is an indication the product might not progress as planned, and backers understand that when they back a Kickstarter project. Sure, it does seem that WayTools isn't trying to grab the money and run, that they are genuinely trying to ship a product. If they had funded themselves through Kickstarter, and they were progressing at the rate they are, I think it would have been just another slow progressing Kickstarter project, and nothing very remarkable. But no, they indicated they had a product ready to ship, and they took preorders, and they charged credit cards before shipping. I can't condone such conduct outside of a Kickstarter-type campaign, because that just leads to a breakdown of online order economy. Next time I see an interesting product taking online orders to be shipped "next month," I'm probably not going to place an order, in part because of what I saw happen with WayTools. If enough companies behave like WayTools, the only companies able to sell anything by preorders would be large established companies like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.

 

[MentalFloss]

If TextBlade had been a Kickstarter project, I might agree. But they presented themselves as a company with a product ready to ship.

That's correct, but I guess I just don't make that distinction anymore with new companies. If there is a company that hasn't released a single product yet, then in my mind, I automatically throw them in the "Kickstarter" bucket. If there aren't any user reviews on various blogs or on Youtube that prove that mass production is already ongoing, I assume that the company is overpromising on release dates, just like any Kickstarter project.

I ordered Kanoa headphones (also not a Kickstarter, but a company taking pre-orders already), even though there were no user reviews, so I assumed that the shipping estimates were complete nonsense. And of course I was right, because in early April, the shipping was postponed to June due to what amounts to a total redesign (indicating that also the June date is complete fantasy).

You are right that this is not a good development. It basically means that new companies will always have to deal with the burden of not being trusted. But on the other hand, I have a hard time thinking of any new company that actually did deliver on its initial promises. I think established companies not only have the advantage that they are more trusted. They also know when to make a cut and actually release a product as opposed to letting the feature creep go on forever. Who knows if the Oculus Rift would ever have been released if Facebook hadn't bought the company.

 

[Night Spring]

They also know when to make a cut and actually release a product as opposed to letting the feature creep go on forever. Who knows if the Oculus Rift would ever have been released if Facebook hadn't bought the company.

Quite right. I remember reading somewhere that Jobs wanted a Mac to have a slot loading CD drive, but for some reason the engineering team didn't get the memo and built one with the old tray style loading drive. When Jobs found out, he almost delayed the product release so they could put in the correct CD drive, but he either controlled himself, or other people talked him out of it, I'm not sure which. The point is, Jobs was a perfectionist if there ever was one, but he learned to control his perfectionism and ship products.

 

[MentalFloss]

By the way, if anyone needs proof that Waytools are really proactively lying as opposed to just "being in over their heads", check out this thread in their forums: https://forum.waytools.com/t/they-are-pushing-back-again-and-deceiving-us/1633

So someone who ordered over a year ago is told that once they start shipping, it will take several weeks before they even get to his order. So realistically speaking, that guy can't get his order before June. At the same time, they are telling people who order today that their order will be shipped in June. That is absolutely undeniably a lie. Not a "We might not manage it, because we are inexperienced newbies", but a blatant lie.

Like I said, that is actually quite normal in the industry nowadays, but what should get the Macrumors staff fuming is that very obviously, they were vetted to be some unwitting marketing tool, being shown "ready-to-ship" devices that a year later still haven't shipped and given a Textblade before any paying customer, both to make it seem that the product is basically done. And Macrumors fell for it like some journalist who gets a guided tour through hand-picked sites in North Korea, being fed delicious food that no North Korean will ever get and then writes an article about what a great leader Kim Jong Un is. If I were in charge of Macrumors, I would have given Waytools a piece of my mind already and probably would have written a front page article to set the record straight. It's one thing for a company to lie, but it's another level of dishonesty to dupe writers for a website into helping to spread the lie.

PS: Just for the record, this is not intended to be another post accusing Macrumors of willingly doing marketing for Textblade, but I am accusing Waytools of tricking Macrumors into doing that, and I am just stating how angry I'd personally be if Macrumors were my site.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Latest post from WT:

We're doing HW stuff like physical regression testing to characterize changes we made to handle acute mechanical stress vs. the registration location of a tiny polyester insulator label.

Requirement is to make sure that even if someone whacks their TextBlade, a certain precision stainless steel stamping can't through inertial migration risk shunting the 805 body terminals of a ceramic capacitor.

We saw a few cases where the forensic data from customer units seemed to indicate that it happened. We could see a few logs from our remote diagnostics in the field that showed events that should never happen. They'd probably never happen on the overwhelming majority of units, but in theory any of them could be vulnerable. So you have no choice but to make adjustments that guarantee this particular failure mode is now blocked, and can't ever happen again.

And any little change like this to address something that comes up in testing, that itself spawns several new burdens simply through its existence. Any time you make a change, there could be unintended consequences. And you have to check for them all.

Not very glamorous, but true. There is far more of this type of grunt work to field any significant new hardware technology, than consumers will ever imagine. And doing it well and thoroughly is what lets you enjoy its virtues.

To get to the point of refinement and reliability that the TREG users actually love it ... that was a sh***load of work. But we got there. Now it's about dialing in any residual details, and eliminating any anomalies, so that for all consumers - it all just works, and it's dreamy good.

The TREG reports have been pivotal in taking it to this level. The general release group ought to know about this, and really thank them for their amazing contributions.

For each vignette like the one above, there's a dozen more you'll never realize were done to make this thing possible.

 

[MentalFloss]

Latest post from WT:

We're doing HW stuff like <meaningless technobabble that could have come from a random word generator>

Requirement is to make sure that <something doesn't happen that should not have happened even a year ago when we said we were ready to ship>

We saw a few cases where <something happened that shouldn't happen, but it could happen and might have happened, so, well, you know how it is>

And any little change like this <means another six months delay, not that we're going to actually ever flat out say it - we'll just imply it in so many words>.

Not very glamorous, but true. <And the customers are too dumb anyway to understand what's going on here>

To get to the point of refinement and reliability that the TREG users actually love it <was a great excuse for the most recent delays and we are already looking for the next one>

The TREG reports have been pivotal in taking it to this level <because a year ago, we strangely enough had no clue that we'd actually have to do any kind of testing, so you better thank these guys for doing our f***ing job. For free!!>

For each vignette like the one above, there's a <lot more ******** we could feed you to justify our delays>

Sorry for editing this, but I had to translate the meaningless blabla from WT into something human-readable.

Like I said, I only ordered just now, as I feel that something tangible is approaching, and there is a certain chance to get something by the end of this year. So I really just watch this with a sense of amusement. But if I had preordered early last year, updates like this from WT that are really completely devoid of any useful information would make me want to scream.

 

[Night Spring]

<because a year ago, we strangely enough had no clue that we'd actually have to do any kind of testing, so you better thank these guys for doing our f***ing job. For free!!>

Thanks for articulating what was really bugging me about this TREG testing -- yes, they should have done this testing a year ago, BEFORE they announced that their product was ready to ship!

 

[bobdobalina]

Sorry for editing this, but I had to translate the meaningless blabla from WT into something human-readable.

Like I said, I only ordered just now, as I feel that something tangible is approaching, and there is a certain chance to get something by the end of this year. So I really just watch this with a sense of amusement. But if I had preordered early last year, updates like this from WT that are really completely devoid of any useful information would make me want to scream.

This is one of the most clear headed post I've read about TextBlade. And humorous. You should write Zen and the art of crowd funding. (not that TextBlade was suppose to be crowd funded, don't flame me).