Discussion in 'iPod' started by MeeMac, Feb 27, 2015.

  1. MeeMac macrumors regular

    Mar 17, 2013

    When Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak created Apple computer; their unification of technology and culture changed the world forever. Apple computer provided freedom for the Individual. The company soared under their passionate combination of innovation and leadership. And then the board of directors stole the company from Jobs.

    Apple struggled while Steve was away because the management team destroyed His culture of vision, innovation, passion, and loyalty. The bottom dollar became valued more than the individual. The company fell from grace. Apple became just another company.

    But the true believers never stopped believing. When all others ran from the fallen Apple into the business world’s idolatry of microsoft; the believers remained committed. They continued to utilize Apple computers to unleash their creative Individual energy. While the lemmings followed the PC masses; the Individuals remained loyal and committed to Apple. It was the passion and commitment of the Individual that kept the company alive.

    When Jobs returned; their faithfulness was rewarded with a resurrection never before witnessed in the business world. Like a Phoenix rising from the ashes; Apple once again became the light of the consumer technology world.

    Steve signed a covenant with the Individual at the beginning of the 21st century when he introduced the ultimate musical experience for the Individual; the iPod.

    A musical experience created specifically for the Individual. Music selection controlled by the desires of the Individual; not by a “programing” director working for a radio station, steaming service, or rented cloud.

    The evolution of the iPod reached a crescendo with the iPod Classic. Music Lovers experienced the ultimate musical freedom at 160GB. No wires; no signals; no ads; just freedom. The pinnacle of technological freedom for the Individual. The perfect balance of culture and technology. Music is personal; the iPod Classic was personal. The Classic was not created to evolve into an iPhone that can’t make calls. The Classic was created to provide freedom for the Individual. Steve Loved Music. And Steve Loved the Individual. The iPod Classic was His gift to Individuals across the globe. He reached out to Individuals everywhere through the Click Wheel; His personal outreach to the Individual.

    And the business world hated Steve’s commitment to the Individual. All they could see was yet another opportunity to control the individual. Soon the masters of the ledger sheets asked themselves, “Why allow individuals freedom when we can control them? And what better way to control them than to control their musical freedom? We will take away their ability to control music on their own. We will remove the one device that threatens our total control of musical freedom for the individual; we will eliminate the iPod Classic”.

    The business world gave the thumbs down to the iPod Classic; because they understood that eliminating the iPod Classic would eliminate the final bastion of the Individual technological freedom.

    The business world never truly embraced Jobs as one of them; because he never was. Because he never could be one of them. He has always been one of us. An Individual.

    The legacy of Steve Jobs can remain with us; in the form of His 21st century Love letter to the Individual; the iPod Classic.

    The iPod Classic has earned its’ seat at the table.

    So the question is not if Apple’s new board of directors care about Steve’s iPod Classic. They have already shown their hand. Their legacy will not be technological passion for the individual. Their legacy will be technological fashion. Fashion that changes with the wind. No loyalty to the Apple Family. Just loyalty to their place at the head of the money trough.

    They are not committed to the legacy of Steve Jobs.

    So the real question is; are WE committed to the legacy of Steve Jobs? Where are the true believers?

    Will the true believers stand up for Steve’s gift to the Individual? Will We make our collective voices sing for Our iPod Classic; just as the iPod Classic has sung to Individuals for the past decade?

    Or do We no longer believe? Have We given up on His legacy?

    Have we exchanged our commitment to the world of the Individual, for a commitment to the harnesses of the business world?

    Are there any Individuals still out there? We kept Apple alive once before. We can do the same for Steve’s greatest gift to the Individual; the iPod Classic; Click Wheel and All.

    Let Us not think like the business world.

    Let Us Think Different.

    Let us save the iPod Classic with the very tools the business world used to eliminate the iPod Classic.

    Let us use the internet websites, discussion boards, blogs, clouds, and social media, to make sure the Individual is heard; and Steve’s legacy is returned to the Family. Let Us be of one Individual voice; saying…..

  2. iamMacPerson, Feb 27, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015

    iamMacPerson macrumors 68030


    Jun 12, 2011
    Apple stopped building the Classic because the parts were no longer available which I can see because they were pretty much the only company still using 1.8" hard disks. Even if Jobs was still alive, I have a feeling Apple would have still discontinued the Classic if for no other reason then the fact that it wasn't selling like other iPods. I would honestly like to see the statistics of how many iPod Classic actually sold in the last year of production and how that compares to sales of the iPod nano and/or iPod shuffle. The other question I have is how much revenue was the Classic generating in that last year? If Apple had converted that assembly line to iPhones, how many more iPhones could they have sold and how much extra revenue would have been made?

    Now I don't hate iPods or the Classic. I'd love to have a Classic. The 5th Gen Video model was my second Apple product ever, with my first product being a 1st Gen Shuffle. The iPod is a great device, in fact I still use my 4th Gen Shuffle daily. But it doesn't mean it makes sense for Apple to continue production of the line. Heck, in MRs pie chart of Apple's last quarter revenue, the iPod accounted for so little of Apple's profits it was grouped into 'Other' along with iPhone accessories.

    Finally, I leave you with one last question. Had Jobs still be alive when the Classic was discontinued, what would be your argument then? Apple turned the most profitable quarter of any company under Cook. I'd say he's doing a damn fine job as the CEO.
  3. roadbloc macrumors G3


    Aug 24, 2009
    As much as I'd love to see a return (and an update), I highly doubt it'll ever happen.
  4. paulrbeers macrumors 68040

    Dec 17, 2009
    Seriously, I do not have time to read a 500 page dissertation on bringing the classic ipod back.

    Quite honestly, I had a 160GB iPod Classic. It wasn't that great of a device. The click wheel took way to long to get thru so many songs. The only way it was usable for me was with playlists, but I didn't have time to build a 1000 playlists for every mood.

    Just my .02 worth. I'd rather have a 128GB iPod Touch since it is so much easier to navigate.
  5. Ipod Collector macrumors member

    Feb 12, 2015
    The Apple Ipod Classic (Video) RiP

    Hey iamMacPerson and the rest on this thread....

    I've read the comments from iamMacPerson & Paulrbeers
    and understand, to a degree, where each one of you are
    coming from.

    First off I'd like to say that this is simply only my unbiased opinion in how all of
    this works in this 21st century business model that's in motion today....

    I personally don't think that they discontinued the classic simply because of parts.
    I think that if Apple wanted them bad enough, they could have built in a heartbeat,
    that is, if demand was still high enough. I agree in what iamMacperson stated about
    production lines and all that good stuff, which leads me to this:
    It all boils down to business, and more normally notably, demand. I'm almost more
    than sure that Apple knew they were going to discontinue the Classic way before
    it was even announced, online only news press, of course.

    And, not to mention that Apple, of all companies, has this thing of telling the consumer
    what they want versus the consumer telling Apple what they would like. Even when you do,
    do they ever listen anyways, especially taking into the fact that Apple doesn't actually
    "build" anything that they design anyways. Heck, look how long it took for them to come
    out with an iphone to begin with, then bluetooth, then a phone with a bigger screen that
    you know we've wanted for how many years now before the 6? 2 years? 3 years? Exactly.
    Not looking for an argument, but I'm sure the masses of bonafide iphone users couldn't
    wait enough for the day to arrive where apple came out with what ??? I'll give you 1 guess
    and a hint, last quarter they sold 74.5 million devices which lead them to their biggest record
    to date, 18 billion plus profit.... simply irrefutable evidence of all of it.

    It's like this. When Toshiba first invented the 1.8 hdd, they actually had no idea what
    they would have been good for. I believe they first started using them in GPS units so
    they could hold greater details of maps and applications. Then came the mp3 player
    market. Toshiba literally went from not having enough applications for this size hdd
    to not being able to keep up with the orders placed for them, of course mainly from
    Apple, hence the reason why you were able to see Hitachi and Samsung, yeah,
    Samsung hdd's in them. Toshiba was Apple's main supplier of hdd's. When Toshiba
    couldn't produce them quickly enough, Apple had to resort to buying Hitachi & Samsung
    hdd's to fulfill production orders to get drives sent to Foxconn for install.

    If you notice though, that at least from what's I've seen from my 7th gen 160 (slim)
    tear downs, that the Toshiba MK1634GAL seems to be the exclusive drive used.
    I've not noticed any other brands used in them yet to date. No more higher demand
    then they could build em fast enough enabled Toshiba to be the sole producer of the
    160gb single platter hdd used in the 7th gen slims.

    Ahhh, that is enough, I also don't want to turn this into a 500 page dissertation,
    even though I believe it offers much more of a thought than just the idea of bringing
    the classic back. Just like any fad, it turned into a niche market, which in turn is a
    market that isn't going to bring in the big dollars, hence why it lies within. You know
    like I know, with the way apple works their marketing, that's where it's at for them.
  6. Ipod Collector macrumors member

    Feb 12, 2015
    So, in ending, RiP to the classic.

    I think a majority of us on this thread have probably owned
    many different ipods, and some, including myself, still do.

    I know that yes, I can stream music anywhere I go if I feel
    like listening to some music, but being old school, I personally
    still feel the need to keep me a couple of ipods that still work
    great, which makes me one of them people that are part of
    this niche market it's turned into. I still like the fact that I can
    listen to what I want that I have loaded into playlists depending
    on my mood, especially when I know what I want to listen to.
    So, yes, for me, I will more than likely keep me a couple of ipods
    around for some years to come.

    I also believe that the content of music today contributed to
    the departure of the classic. Don't get me wrong, some is decent
    today, but the majority of it is simply GARBAGE!! There is simply
    no comparison of music today compared to the 60's through the
    90's. Those decades were the best. They need to be repeated.
    Those were the days where artists actually produced music,
    not machines loaded with programs to do this and that,
    pretty much everything but actually sing the lyrics, except
    if you were Milli Vanilli of course ;)

    Ok, nuff said. Ahhh, my mind is just too active for this kind of stuff......

    I think it's time for a frozen lime margarita :D;):D
  7. racoop macrumors member

    Oct 13, 2012
    ^^^Some serious sweat was put into these manifestos - SEND THEM TO APPLE!!

    I love the classic too! But I am hoping for a 128 GB iPod touch this year.
  8. 0007776 Suspended


    Jul 11, 2006
    My guess is they weren't actually producing any new ones for the last year or two and were just selling through stock until it got so low that they had to either restart production or totally discontinue it.
  9. iamMacPerson macrumors 68030


    Jun 12, 2011
    Sure Apple could have paid someone to start an assembly line to make more 1.8" disks but what would be the point? The Classic's market was literally a niche inside an already niche market. Plus it would reduce the (nowadays, already low) amount of profit of each Classic.

    I think Apple giving the customer what they will want before they even know is good. I think Henry Ford, who Jobs quoted once, hit it right on the head: 'If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have said "a faster horse"'. Now making a 180 here to the discontinuation of such products, let's bring up a device the iPod killed; the Zune. There were people who loved the Zune. In fact, I know a few that preferred the Zune to the iPod however it wasn't generating any (IIRC MS was loosing actually) money so they killed the Zune. People were pissed and wanted the Zune back. Was Microsoft going to listen? It happened all the time and there is always going to be a pissed crowd and there is nothing that can be done about them.

    True, Apple doesn't build anything they make. They haven't done that for years unfortunately. All companies are doing that though. Yes it did take them a while to enlarge the screen on the iPhone and I hope they have learned their lesson on being so stubborn. I would like to point out it was Jobs stubbornness that kept Apple from not only producing a larger iPhone, but a smaller iPad. It seems the Cook administration is doing a better job with listening.

    Personally, I feel the same regarding streaming music. I still purchase content from iTunes because it comes with me everywhere I go, no matter what device I'm on. When a streaming service allows me to put music on my Shuffle for working out, I'll pay for a subscription. Until then, I'll just listen to (free) iTunes Radio occasionally and shuffling my playlists.
  10. DFZD macrumors 6502

    Apr 6, 2012
    The sad part now is that apple is back at being a purely business entity. They killed the human touch that existed with there products, and are now just a formula based business manufacturer. Sadly it has been so since the last 3 years. The only redeeming quality they have is that some of their products are not generating as much profit but they are still keeping them alive like Mac Pro. But no one knows for how long.
  11. theluggage macrumors 68040

    Jul 29, 2011
    Not with a 1.8" HD. Mobile HDs are dead.

    It looks like its going to be a while yet before SSDs completely replace HDs in servers and on the desktop. In mobile devices, though, size, weight, power consumption and robustness trump bytes-per-buck, and HDs just don't make sense.

    If demand was high enough they would produce a 128GB or larger iPod touch, rather than faff around trying to keep 1.8" hard drives on life support.

    However, I suspect that the vast majority of customers can live happily with the shedload of music you can store on a 64G iPod touch (esp. since also has WiFi so you can stream/download direct).
  12. Jessica Lares macrumors G3

    Jessica Lares

    Oct 31, 2009
    Near Dallas, Texas, USA
    This is the way I see it... When I got my first iPod, I was 14, and am now 26. The people who were 26 back then, are now close to being 40. Within those 12 years, the music industry has changed a lot. The target audience is much younger, and people who were afraid to buy albums, are now afraid to buy individual tracks because they have this idea that you cannot throw away a purchased music file in the same way you can delete a track off Spotify/etc.

    While they wouldn't have a problem selling a flash based iPod Classic to those of us here, it would be hard for them to make any additional money from selling iTunes content. Most of us would just load our existing libraries, and call it a day, only buying things here and there and ripping CDs and vinyls. Because those who still care about buying music, now also care about having the highest quality tracks. I personally think the Mastered for iTunes albums I've listened to sound amazing, but some people will still rather have the same master from a CD.

    It is better to make a product for the person who is still primarily building their collection. The person who has a Shuffle will eventually buy a Nano, and the person who buys a Nano will most likely buy an iPod Touch or an additional Nano since they are fairly cheap.

    At this point I also feel like the record industry is also taking advantage of people who still buy music, getting people to buy albums and singles before even previewing them on the radio or elsewhere, they're also gaming the system with cheap prices and doing bundle deals that are complete nonsense. There are also artists who don't seem to understand that saying that they don't care if people pirate or stream music isn't a very good opinion to have. It just makes the artist who does care about their sales look "greedy". I don't like streaming either, but I absolutely HATE these tactics and would not like if my brother was buying into them instead of just using Rhapsody. Marketing and sales shouldn't be bigger than the music itself.

    I would argue that mainstream music itself killed the iPod. Apple was just very lucky that they had the iPhone ready to sidetrack the journalists, and not scare off investors.

    All my Apple products are very personal to me, and I find them more enjoyable to use everyday. When we go on about bringing back the iPod Classic, we don't "Think Different", we just go chasing for something that was relevant yesterday. The iPod let you relive memories, and was there for when new ones were being made. But it's not the iPod itself that we should look back on, but the music we listened to on it.

    Would I rather an iPod Classic over an iPod Touch? Sure. But the experience of putting some headphones on, listening to an album, and getting lost in the music isn't as different now as it was back when the iPod was king.
  13. SpyderBite macrumors 65816


    Oct 4, 2011
    There are hundreds of classics for sale on eBay both new and used. Not sure what the point of this post is.
  14. 1080p macrumors 68030


    Mar 17, 2010
    Planet Earth
    No "we" don't. How do I know that? By the numbers... (Towards the Classic's end of life)

    Millions of iOS devices sold every quarter vs thousands (maybe) of Classics sold. "We" as a group stopped buying them... so no. "We" as a group DON'T "want our classic back."



    Riiiiiiiight. They made $18 Billion profit last quarter, they have $178 billion in the bank and are the most valuable company in the world. I think Apple will be kept "alive" for a long time. They wouldn't have the success they get if people didn't love the products they buy from them.
  15. MeeMac, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015

    MeeMac thread starter macrumors regular

    Mar 17, 2013
    WE may be out numbered; but WE still matter.

    WE may be out numbered; but WE still matter.

    MeeMac will always proudly represent minorities and their interest against establishment views such as yours 1080p.

    The question is; will Apple hear and respond to the minority? Will Apple once again breathe life into the iPod Classic.

    Or has Apple finally become once and for all; the establishment?

    Think Different
  16. Scepticalscribe, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015

    Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere


    Jul 29, 2008
    The Far Horizon
    Excellent and well argued post with which I find myself in pretty much complete agreement.

    And I agree with the argument that while the classic itself was making less and less money as time went on, the real issue was that there was no further way to make money (through streaming, downloads and so on) from those who invested in a classic. Personally, I mourn its passing hugely - it was terrific device, and I have several of them, and am never without one, especially when I am travelling.

    Besides, the classic was aimed at a different demographic: A demographic who bought music in a different way, and listened to it differently, and have a different conception of what a device should be able to do, and how much it should be able to hold, to many of those who grew up on other products where streaming was the norm. And that older demographic also have radically different ideas as to what constitutes ownership of that same music, an idea so different and so deeply embedded, that it is almost impossible to generate further profit from them once a CD has been bought.

    A final point or two to the OP. Are screaming capitals - in your view - the best way to express a thread title?

    While I agree with you about the importance of the iPod classic, and deeply regret its demise, I must dissent re the some of the motivations I think you may have attributed to the late Mr Jobs. The man had extraordinary taste, and an incredible capacity to identify needs before the public knew they felt this need, and to preside over the design of astonishingly advanced products where an almost perfect fusion of form and function was evident.

    However, above all else, he was a businessman of genius, and - I would submit that the imperatives of good design - and handsome profit - both came far ahead of any perceived or real need to pay homage to the individual spirit in a human being.

  17. skiltrip macrumors 68030

    May 6, 2010
    New York
    The used prices on eBay are almost up to the price they were new.
  18. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere


    Jul 29, 2008
    The Far Horizon
    Yes, that doesn't really surprise me, in the circumstances.
  19. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6


    Aug 17, 2007
    Ok, Don Quixote, keep tilting at windmills.:rolleyes:
  20. MeeMac thread starter macrumors regular

    Mar 17, 2013
    sorry mate; but since you've read it & asked...

    Apparently so…:)

    Post Different :D
  21. MR-Troll-to-you macrumors newbie

    Mar 2, 2015
  22. MeeMac thread starter macrumors regular

    Mar 17, 2013
    Old #93

    Been called worse. :p

    P.S. Thank You for the inspiration. Just played the brilliant 1972 Gordon Lightfoot album “Don Quixote” in your honor. Complete with a bottle of Clancy’s Amber Ale. :D

    P.S.S. Favorite album track; so many gems makes it near impossible; so for this particular moment; it is the title track “Don Quixote” :)
  23. SlCKB0Y macrumors 68040


    Feb 25, 2012
    Sydney, Australia
    1.8" drives are still being mass produced. Just not PATA ones.
  24. navier macrumors regular


    Aug 4, 2011
    That no parts available is BS... as if they grew on Trees in the Amazon which have been exterminated...
    Before the iPod, there wasn't ALL the Parts either

    And no, iPod Touch/iPhone is not for me:
    - no streaming needed/wanted (even if it were free, don't want to have to wait to donwload to play each song, especially In Random mode)
    - no hard buttons
  25. 0007776 Suspended


    Jul 11, 2006
    1.8" HDD were around before the iPod. Where can you buy them now?

    Yes Apple could pay someone to start up a production line of them again, but they would loose a lot of money doing that, and likely they compared the costs of updating it to flash storage as well and found that they wouldn't sell enough to make a profit.

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