Well I think I found a potential keyboard issue with my 16"

[iemcj]

Yes this is one of the issues I mentioned in my Reddit review which got so badly flamed by Apple fanboys I had to delete it before I lost all my karma.

Just a heads up, you can't get negative karma from a post. So if you have 10 karma and then post something that get's flamed by the fanboys and it's 0 points and 80% downvoted, your overall karma won't go down. Posts and comments are calculated differently.

Back on topic, I found I can do that exact same "click the far edge of the arrow and nothing happens" thing on my magic keyboard 2. It's never once been an issue for me personally as I'm apparently good at hitting the keys correctly after decades of using non butterfly keyboards (which are more sensitive to those corners).

 

[Psyclism]

Oh, and FYI, I'm relieved nobody else appears to be having this issue, or at least it isn't widespread. I likely just got a bad key mechanism in my particular unit. Telling me to HTFU and learn to type "better" isn't helpful. I've been using various types of keyboards for 30+ years, and I've never had a key behave like this.

 

[smirking]

It's never once been an issue for me personally as I'm apparently good at hitting the keys correctly after decades of using non butterfly keyboards (which are more sensitive to those corners).

The butterfly mechanism is actually more responsive to non-center strikes than a traditional scissor board. Try it on one of the more recent models that have the issues ironed out. The same reason why you can strike the key anywhere and still get a keypress is the same reason it can jam. Traditional scissor mechanisms are somewhat flexible. The butterflies are rigid. That rigidity ensures a smooth downward motion if any portion of the key surface is hit, but because it's so rigid it's very unforgiving if any debris gets in the way.

 

[CloudsNeverDie]

Just a heads up, you can't get negative karma from a post. So if you have 10 karma and then post something that get's flamed by the fanboys and it's 0 points and 80% downvoted, your overall karma won't go down. Posts and comments are calculated differently.

Good to know. Perhaps it was my replies to the comments that generated the loss of overall karma.

 

[Viamusic10000]

pp

If I hit my arrow keys anywhere in the red area shown below, they don't register a keypress.

View attachment 882348

Here's a YouTube video of the issue as well

I can replicate this exact issue on my 2012 macbook air but I need to push it softly. If I push it hard in the same area, the key strokes register. The magic keyboard can do it too, but the surface area where this happens is smaller (probably because of the bigger keys compared to a laptop)? I don't see this being an issue in real world use for most of people but if you have a tendency to make strokes which don't register then you should return it.

 

[jr69]

If I hit my arrow keys anywhere in the red area shown below, they don't register a keypress.

View attachment 882348

Here's a YouTube video of the issue as well

Unbelieveable that Apple supposedely fixed these keyboards and yet here we are still with these problems. I think that the key press registration % is worser than the butterfly keyboards.

 

[jerryk]

The butterfly mechanism is actually more responsive to non-center strikes than a traditional scissor board. Try it on one of the more recent models that have the issues ironed out. The same reason why you can strike the key anywhere and still get a keypress is the same reason it can jam. Traditional scissor mechanisms are somewhat flexible. The butterflies are rigid. That rigidity ensures a smooth downward motion if any portion of the key surface is hit, but because it's so rigid it's very unforgiving if any debris gets in the way.

It's a trade off. I vote for the design of the scissors, especially how it is implemented on the 16".

 

[MacBookGamer]

I can make this happen with all my keys.

 

[jr69]

The butterfly mechanism is actually more responsive to non-center strikes than a traditional scissor board. Try it on one of the more recent models that have the issues ironed out. The same reason why you can strike the key anywhere and still get a keypress is the same reason it can jam. Traditional scissor mechanisms are somewhat flexible. The butterflies are rigid. That rigidity ensures a smooth downward motion if any portion of the key surface is hit, but because it's so rigid it's very unforgiving if any debris gets in the way.

Is there any way some manufacturer can make a key mechanism that is responsive to non-center strikes whilst at the same time debris resistant?

 

[smirking]

Is there any way some manufacturer can make a key mechanism that is responsive to non-center strikes whilst at the same time debris resistant?

I'd think there is but anything they could change would come with its own set of challenges. You could increase the travel of the keys to make it so that the only debris that could get stuck would be too large to make it past the keycaps, but that would make the laptop thicker and may also make it a very uncomfortable typing experience. The butterfly mechanism can be quite comfortable to type on if you learn to develop a light touch, but with a longer throw it'd be near impossible to tap lightly.

A longer throw could also be more susceptible to defects or warping of the butterfly mechanism, which would then cause jams a different way.

I actually think warping or keycap alignment is the real issue and not debris because the butterflies are so rigid that they'll crush any debris that's not hard with a few firm presses.

There are probably other solutions that have been considered, but are too cost prohibitive to try. Making parts replaceable could be another way to address this, but that would mean bigger laptops and much higher manufacturing costs. The reason why mechanical keyboards are so expensive is because there are so many parts and so much assembly required to produce a single unit.

 

[Viamusic10000]

Unbelieveable that Apple supposedely fixed these keyboards and yet here we are still with these problems. I think that the key press registration % is worser than the butterfly keyboards.

I can do this on every computer in my house including my old macbook air. This isn't a glitch or defect, its just the design of the keyboard and shouldn't lead to misstrokes for most people using it.

 

[Psyclism]

Went to both the Apple Store and Best Buy today to look at the keyboards on their display models. Not a single one of those behaved like the keys on my keyboard. Yes, if you press on the VERY absolute edge of a key, then of course it won't register, but pressing just right of center should register a keystroke and did 100% of the time on every display model I tested. My keys register, at most, 50% of the time. And as a developer I use my cursor keys a LOT to move around in my IDE. I have an appointment at the Apple Store tomorrow to discuss with a Genius.

 

[Psyclism]

Well, had my appointment with the genius tonight. He verified that the arrow key is indeed screwy, so he took the computer and scavenged a key cap from one of the returned units in back. Helped somewhat, but I'll be going back in for a full scissor mechanism replacement once they get the parts in stock over the next few days. He's absolutely certain that a mech swap will fix the issue, but I at least have confirmation from a second party that I'm not imagining things, as was strongly insinuated in this thread.

 

[Dovahkiing]

I mean, if you can't replicate this issue on other samples then it's pretty clearly not "just you".

I take it you're outside of 14 days at this point? Even if you're at 3 weeks, you might be able to convince them to just swap out the machine under the normal return policy.

 

[Psyclism]

I mean, if you can't replicate this issue on other samples then it's pretty clearly not "just you".

I take it you're outside of 14 days at this point?

I'm still within my return window. But my laptop is a BTO config and I really don't want to wait another 2+ weeks for a replacement. Nor do I want to deal with the re-boxing and shipping, dealing with Adorama customer service, playing a new round of LCD panel and coil whine lottery, etc for something as simple as having a tech pop off a key cap and simply R&R'ing the scissor mechanism of what is otherwise a perfect copy of a MBP 16. There will be no "cracking open" of the computer. However, if the service doesn't fix the problem, I will initiate an exchange and deal with that monumental headache.

And, frankly, I'm sorry I started this thread. I'm obviously someone that doesn't understand how a keyboard works, even though I've been using one professionally, all day every day, for nearly 30 years. Keys that insist that you hit them dead center of the sweet spot, like a golf club, and ignore anything outside of that are "normal" and should just be adapted to. Message received. Thank you very much.

Mods: please lock, or better yet, delete this thread. It's pointless
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Uncalled for, and reportable.

Took the liberty of reporting myself to save you the trouble. Thanks!

 

[arn]

be nice people.