Well Its Official........

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by mocman, Dec 19, 2004.

  1. mocman macrumors regular

    May 8, 2004
    I have tried every program available to copy dvds to no avail. Here is what I have tried: mtr,dvd2one,popcorn,toast,fastcopy3.
    The only reason that I have held on to my pc is dvdshrink.......I only wish that I could find one that works as great. I have even tried virtual pc to run the dvdshrink and it was just to slowwwwwww. Any Suggest??????
  2. jimsowden macrumors 68000


    Sep 6, 2003
    Mac the ripper works fine, and then get popcorn to compress and burn. What problems have you had?
  3. mocman thread starter macrumors regular

    May 8, 2004
    Just poor playback on the dvd player. I mean sometimes I get a little video and audio skip. I know it is compressed and all but nothing compares to the dvdshrink that I have tried and it is just getting frustrating......Thanks
  4. Rocksaurus macrumors 6502a


    Sep 14, 2003
    I use Media Pipe...

    Sorry thought you just meant compressing them, didn't realize you were copying them, don't know anything about that.
  5. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002
    Nobody really feels too bad that you cannot copy movies you rent from BlockBuster.

    Wonder if this'll hit Wasteland, since this isn't a MacForum that supports people trying to do that.
  6. herr_neumann macrumors 6502


    Mar 27, 2003
    Roseville, Ca
    I for one AM interested in getting this answer as well. There is no way I want to take my original DVDs with me to Iraq. Maybe somepeople here just need to go work for music and movie companies, because they sure do not want to help anyone out here (at least they could drop the atitude or just keep from responding). Not everyone IS pirating.
  7. Mitthrawnuruodo Moderator emeritus


    Mar 10, 2004
    Bergen, Norway
    Don't see why it should be wastelanded even if I wanted to know how to copy (rip, re-comress and burn) DVDs. Here in Norway I can do that, legally, with any DVD I buy, rent or loan from my local public library or "close friends and relatives".

    Now, since I've "only" got an iBook, with limited processing power and storage space (for coding/burning) I don't actually copy any DVDs at the moment, but sometime into the future, when I have a brand new G5, Cell or whatever-cpu-Apple-will-use-in-their-portables driven laptop with a dual layer superdrive I might want to backup my DVD colletion... and my cousin's while I'm at it... ;)
  8. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002
    But the forum is a US site, and the MPAA seems to be going postal itself right now, not everyone wants arn to run afoul of the DMCA.

    Now if you can get arn to move to Norway...
  9. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601


    Feb 10, 2004
    There's lots of uses for cracked CDs. If you mean cracked applications, lots of them require you to have the CD in the drive to run it, but if you are a traveling user taking the original discs with you all over the place might not be ideal. You paid for it, and you own it, you should be able to use it.

    As far as DVDs go, I can't help you, but I love DVDSrink, too! If you find something that works that well for OSX I would love to hear about it.

    One thing I would like to know (I haven't got a Mac yet, waiting for after MWSF to get my G5, just in case) is if yo could rip the whole movie from a DVD with Mac The Ripper (I hear good things about) - not the menus and such, just the main feature - and then import into iMovie/iDVD and recompress/burn? Seems like that would be to easy, but ya never know... :)

    Anyways, for all the people complaining about copying DVDs and whatnot, just keeping letting the *AA pay off your elected officials to erode your fair use rights. For example, you are legally entitled to make copies of music and movies you own for backup OR for use by personal friends and family. It is however illegal to circumvent any form of copy protection to do so. So now all a record company has to do is put ANY sort of copy protection on a CD that keeps you from importing it into iTune and no matter how trivial it is to defeat, you would be breaking the law to listen to it on your iPod. But accordign to Sun Baked Brain there, you would be an evil pirate! Gimme a break!
  10. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

    May 19, 2002
    That's scum sucking evil pirate, wish people would get that right. :p

    But the copyright holder do have to protect their interest, not my fault that they may think your stealing by copying their media.

    But don't worry, they usually only toss you in jail for a few days for having hundreds of copies of DVDs.
  11. panphage macrumors 6502

    Jul 1, 2003
    I think you (AND "Hollywood") should maybe bone up on your US history and copyright law as interpreted by the US Supreme Court. You may have heard of the Betamax Decision? Fair Use? If not, look it up, and email it to the MPAA.
  12. CanadaRAM macrumors G5


    Oct 11, 2004
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    Enlighten me on why this is relevant....

    The Betamax decision ruled that Sony could not be prevented from *building a machine* that recorded video merely on the supposition that it might be used to tape TV shows. The decision has nothing to do with duplicating stuff you might or might not own a copy of. In fact, the court stated that even though the Betamax could be used for infringing purposes, there were enough legitimate uses for the machine that it would not be reasonable to block production of the machine -- *that* is the Betamax decision.

    The Fair use portion of the decision stated that "private, noncommercial ... time-shifting merely enables a viewer to see such a work which he had been invited to witness in its entirety free of charge [was] fair use" -- In other words the Betamax Fair Use argument only applies to recording broadcast TV that the viewer was already getting for free. It has no bearing on copying of prerecorded, copyrighted materials that are not free. That is clearly still infringing.

    Summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._v._Universal_City_Studios
    Full ruling: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=464&invol=417

    US Copyright law:

    Fair use (section 107) applies if you are using a portion of the work for criticism, comment, news reporting, or teaching. The purpose and character of the use is a determining qualification for fair use. You can take it for granted that private viewing for pleasure would not qualify.

    What about backup copies?
    The right to make an archival copy under US Copyright law section 117 exists only for computer software, not for video or music media.

    "Under certain conditions as provided by section 117 of the Copyright Act. [you may make an] "archival" copy [of software you have purchased]... This privilege extends only to computer programs and not to other types of works.

    You are not permitted under section 117 to make a backup copy of other material on a computer's hard drive, such as other copyrighted works that have been downloaded (e.g., music, films)."

    And the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) states that it's illegal to break the CSS copy-protection mechanism employed by most commercial DVD movies. You might not like that but it's US law.

    So yeah, I looked it up. You might try it sometime yourself.

    The original poster might undestandably want backups of their 1000 legitimately purchased DVDs. Copyright law has not provided for that yet in the US. And no excuse, whether Betamax, fair use or natural law, can justify the duplication of copyrighted material the user does not own.

    Geez, this one's heading for Wasteland in a hurry.
  13. CanadaRAM macrumors G5


    Oct 11, 2004
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    Wrong. And Wrong. (in the USA that is, Norwegians please disregard)

    You can backup your computer software, for yourself and nobody else, whether freindly or not. Not movies or music. US Code Title 17 Section 117.
  14. maya macrumors 68040


    Oct 7, 2004
    somewhere between here and there.
    Who cares, are you people getting paid by any party to represent them here. If the guy wants to backup his DVD collection its his choice he paid for it, same with music. What ever he does with the original or copy is his business and if he gets caught that is also his problem.

    Why do people make a big deal, now if you were representing any organization then please either remove your post or PM, Email, or IM the individual in regards to this matter.

    take care. :)

    Note: There are several good applications for what you want to do, however you are either not looking hard enough or are not using it properly. Good luck on the search try versiontracker. :)
  15. nbs2 macrumors 68030


    Mar 31, 2004
    A geographical oddity
    17 usc 117?

    Under the logic here, I can't see how one should be permitted to own a physical CD and have a copy on the iPod. Also, §117 specifically pertains to the copying of computer software and never addresses the backing up of music/audio.

    Before getting my iPod, I did not enjoy haveing my licence "revoked" because I dropped a cd on the floor and made copies for listening and archived the originals. Not a sermon, just a thought.
  16. roadapple macrumors regular

    Oct 21, 2004
    So, lets say, hypothetically, I have a “friend” that ripped their cd collection into itunes, then after a year or so realized they never played most of the original cd’s and sold them off on ebay. Would the copies now in their itunes library be illegal?
  17. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601


    Feb 10, 2004
    Coming from a Canadian... :p The law you are reffering to has NOTHING to do with music or movies, as you pointed out. The relevent laws and court cases (there's alot more to consider than just laws, the court decisions are just as important to look at) are typically what is known as Fair Use.

    As mentioned above, without fair use laws it would be illegal for you to have a CD and a copy of it on your iPod. It would be illegal to make a 'mix tape' or CD. These things are of course perfectly legal, and you are permitted even to make a mix tape, for example, and give it to a friend.

    There are a myriad of things taht cntribute to this set of laws, rules, and guidlines, some of the main ones are the infamous Betamax case, and the Auido Home Recording Act of 1992. These protect home users rights to make and use copy's of music and other media which they legally own. You actually pay a small fee for every blank audio tape, video tape, MUSIC CD-R, and VIDEO DVD-R (if you look you will see that certain discs are labeled specifically for Music and Video. A lot of 'set-top' CD and DVD burners will only take these types of discs) that goes to copyright owners to help compenstate them for lost royalties.

    This is similar to the MP3 fee that you Canucks just got rid of. Anyways, you are applying the law incorrectly, USC 17-117 specifically says "it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program ...", it makes no mentions of any sort of audio or video media. There ARE other sections of Title 17 dealing with audio/visual material, but not 117.
  18. mrgreen4242 macrumors 601


    Feb 10, 2004
    Yes, for the most part. There could be some exceptions. In general, when you sell a CD you are transfering both the physical media AND the license to use it. I suppose that if the buyer of a CD had purchsed the CD previously, but was unable to use it now (say it broke) he would still own the license, and could buy your physical CD as a replacement, but leave you the licensing rights.

    That is assuming that the licensing rights are not implicitly tied to the physical disc, which I don't believe they are. However, for the most part, selling a CD transfers the rights to the license it came with, so the copies on your iPos would be illegal.

    IANAL, so I could be wrong, but that is my understanding of it.
  19. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

    Dec 25, 2003
    Northern Virginia
    Of course we don't want Arn in trouble. From what I understand offering programs that break CSS is illegal. I do think that free speech is still allowed. So in this case it should be OK to discuss programs and methods, as long as MR does not offer the programs.

    Also I believe that the DCMA has not yet be fully tested by SCOTUS as of yet.
  20. jeremy.king macrumors 603


    Jul 23, 2002
    Fuquay Varina, NC
    Sounds like its a combination of your player, your burner, and your media? Are you using the same burner on your PC (ie external)? How about the same media? Have you tried + and -R? I would upgrade your player to one that advertises support for DVD-R and DVD+R, like this one from Sony for example.


    I use MTR to rip and DVD2ONE to shrink and burn with a Sony DRU-510UL firewire burner. No probs whatsoever.
  21. mocman thread starter macrumors regular

    May 8, 2004
    On my pc side I have a sony burner and it is a multi burner in all formats. I use dvdshrink on the windoz side and everything is fine.
    On the Mac side I have a dual 1.8 1gig ram with superdrive 8x. I have tried all the software posted on the net for the mac and nothing seems to give me the burn quality that dvdshrink has.
    The best combo on the mac is mtr then dvd2one and burn with popcorn or toast. I sometimes get bad pixelation and audio skips sometimes on the mac side of things.
    I like the fastdvdcopy3 also because of its all in one deal. But on my panasonic it does not pick the menu up and just stops. I can however play it on my xbox with no probs at all. Thanks
  22. CanadaRAM macrumors G5


    Oct 11, 2004
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    What is the pertinent code for that?

    The Audio Home Recording Act is similar to the Canadian recording levy in that it "taxes" recording media and hardware to recover royalties, in exchange for the hardware and media manufacturers immunity from prosecution by copyright owners, rather than enshrining any consumer right to make duplicates (BTW the Canadian royalty was struck down only for hardware MP3 players; it remains in force for tape and blank CDs, including data CDs).

    I stand corrected that for home use of backups of legally owned musical material the AHRA implies legitimacy, even if it never states it outright.
    The act is at http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap10.html
    Still no defence for duplicating not-legally-owned material or for swapping.

    My comment on Title 17 Section 117 was based on this FAQ from the Copyright office (which I referenced in an earlier post but not this one)
  23. panphage macrumors 6502

    Jul 1, 2003
    The DeCSS case has been thrown out of every court it's been tried in as far as I know. I know the charges were recently dismissed in the US.

    CanadaRAM, thank you for the specific and educated rebuttal. I guess my main point was that recent activities of monstrously huge international corporations notwithstanding, US copyright was designed to be short-term, meant to allow the creator of the work (and not a monster tax-evading conglomerate) to benefit from their creation, and was meant to grant broad privileges to the "end user" to do as they pleased with material they had paid for. The recent draconization of copyright law makes me absolutely sick personally, as pirating is already illegal. The only real effect of the broadened laws and harrassment tactics seems to be to limit the rights of the consumer. The Betamax decision seemed relevant because it set this precedent:
    Yes, it specifically mentions "copying equipment" and you'll need a lawyer to tell you if this is relevant. To me, a software for copying seems to fit the definition of "copying equipment". So the point for me is that restricting legitimate use is unconstitutional. Pirates are breaking other laws for which they should be punished, so consumers shouldn't have to give up their broad rights by limiting technology. I don't think the act of copying purchased media would be considered illegal by the Supreme Court here in the US (well, maybe the current supreme court, the entire government here seems to be ruled by the whims of the Disney company :( ) whereas, copying media you did not purchase, or selling copies, is already illegal.
  24. munkle macrumors 68030


    Aug 7, 2004
    On a jet plane
    OK back to the original question: I've copied numerous DVD's (all mine before the brigade gets prissy) using the MacTheRipper/DVD2One/Toast combo and more recently Popcorn without a hitch. They all work fine and playback flawlessly, which suggests it's more to do with your setup than with the apps themselves.

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