What are the odds that Apple will ditch the Touchbar with the next redesign?

[xxray]

There are rumors of a new generation of MacBook Pros (14” and 16”) coming out this year with Apple Silicon and a new design. Do you think Apple will finally ditch the touchbar? Do you want them to?

Edit: Looks like both Ming-Chi Kuo and Mark Gurman (Bloomberg) are reporting that Apple is either testing versions without the Touch Bar or are doing away with them completely for the 2021 models:

Bloomberg: Next-Generation MacBook Pro to Offer Improved Displays, Faster Charging Over MagSafe

Following today's report from analyst Ming-Chi Kuo outlining major changes for the next-generation MacBook Pro models coming in the third quarter...

www.macrumors.com

Kuo: New MacBook Pro Models to Feature Flat-Edged Design, MagSafe, No Touch Bar and More Ports

Apple is working on two new MacBook Pro models that will feature significant design changes, well-respected Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said today in...

www.macrumors.com

 

[casperes1996]

I would put it at 5%

I would be happy with no Touch Bar, at least as an option, but I don't think it'll happen

 

[chabig]

No. No.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

There are rumors of a new generation of MacBook Pros (14” and 16”) coming out this year with Apple Silicon and a new design. Do you think Apple will finally ditch the touchbar? Do you want them to?

I think these rumors of a new design this year are hogwash.

Apple has enough on their plate just trying to get Apple Silicon up and running on the existing designs.

The most probable scenario would have Apple putting in Apple Silicon SoCs in the existing MBP 14" and MBP 16" systems in 2021 and introducing a new industrial design in the future likely 2022.

We have already seen them do with with last year's M1 Macs.

I expect the same goes for the initial Apple Silicon iMacs and Mac Pro: same industrial design, new Apple Silicon SoC.

 

[shenfrey]

Why would they scrap it? Because a bunch of grumpy grandpas who are stuck in their ways don’t like it?

They won’t get rid of it, and will just revise it. There’s nothing else to do with it except putting hard keys there. That’s not innovative and they won’t go back to it.

 

[medee88]

Why would they scrap it? Because a bunch of grumpy grandpas who are stuck in their ways don’t like it?

They won’t get rid of it, and will just revise it. There’s nothing else to do with it except putting hard keys that’s not innovative and they won’t go back to it.

Grumpy Grandpas is a bit strong 😅

As someone who used the Touch Bar since 2016 and am now on an M1 Air, I really don't miss it at all. I get many are ok with it, but to me there are significant issues with the Touch Bar:

1. Reliability - Happened a few times too many I just reset my computer to deal with Touch Bar issues
2. Moving targets for muscle memory - It's super nice always knowing where my volume keys and etc are on a keyboard for muscle memory
3. No support on any external keyboard that Apple makes - We're nearly 5 years in at this point, and there's not a single external keyboard that has a touchbar. Makes it hard for people to integrate it into their flows (Especially those of us that use external displays and monitors)
4. Working outside makes the Touch Bar unusable - It's hard enough to view screens in sunlight, and the Touch Bar is even more difficult to use
5. Some websites make the Touch Bar change constantly, making it a distraction.
6. Lack of uniformity across the MacBook line. Just like adding FaceID to nearly every iPhone, you just don't get super adoption and developers optimizing for it unless it makes it to more models.
7. It turns off and you have to wake it up

Basically I largely used it as a glorified emoji picker. I'm not going to say it's an utterly terrible thing, it just hasn't personally enhanced really anything about my flow, and has made keys many of us are used to (Like F7 etc for debuggers and such) hidden. It's a surprisingly unpolished thing that Apple hasn't fully utilized IMO. Those are my reasons why they might scrap it, just like the old, defective keyboard design. But honestly, they're more likely to double down on it.

It's very confusing cause it's on their pro line of laptops, but seems more optimized for non-pros that aren't used to using traditional keyboard shortcuts. But Pro's are in many shapes and sizes so maybe others out there adore it.

 

[brianmowrey]

50/50. As in, all arguments for why they might keep it or scrap it are equally pinned onto unknowns.

With M1 they've bought themselves plenty of slack to sweep the Torchture Bar under the rug without dinging the brand's "innovative" halo.

Touchscreen as the future is 13 years old at this point anyway; "haptic" touch is 4 years, and the touchbar is 4 years old; "touch-" anything is retro, and mechanical is timeless.

Apple has incredible inertia against scrapping bad UI, because they magically credit bad UI with "just works" / novice-friendliness customer recruitment out of excessive internalized Jobs-worship (because Jobs inflicted tons of terrible UI choices on Apple at the same time the brand was growing back from literally the lowest bar possible anyway), whereas they love to scrap good UI at the earliest opportunity.

So who knows...

 

[Apple_Robert]

It's not happening. If you remember, Apple did bring it back once not long after they introduced the TB Mac. For whatever reason, Apple did away with the option. I am glad for the MBA option. I don't hate the TB its just I have no real need for it. and it gets in the way of my typing and my workflow.

 

[Abazigal]

There are rumors of a new generation of MacBook Pros (14” and 16”) coming out this year with Apple Silicon and a new design. Do you think Apple will finally ditch the touchbar? Do you want them to?

I suspect Apple will sooner bring the touch bar concept to the rest of the laptop keyboard, than do away with the touchbar.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I suspect Apple will sooner bring the touch bar concept to the rest of the laptop keyboard, than do away with the touchbar.

That is more likely the longterm scenario, unfortunately.

 

[Abazigal]

That is more likely the longterm scenario, unfortunately.

It’s also the main reason why I went with the M1 MBA. I understand the concept behind the touchbar, but I am not a fan of it, so I didn’t feel like paying extra for an added feature I wouldn’t need.

 

[Apple_Robert]

It’s also the main reason why I went with the M1 MBA. I understand the concept behind the touchbar, but I am not a fan of it, so I didn’t feel like paying extra for an added feature I wouldn’t need.

I hope Apple leaves the M1 MBA alone in that regard (at least for several more years).

 

[Pakaku]

I'd say the chances are higher of Apple trying to add the touchbar to more of their computers, maybe even the Apple Keyboard.

 

[UBS28]

There are rumors of a new generation of MacBook Pros (14” and 16”) coming out this year with Apple Silicon and a new design. Do you think Apple will finally ditch the touchbar? Do you want them to?

I hope they don’t. I actually like the touchbar with certain apps.

However I do have also a wireless keyboard for situations were physical F-buttons are better.

 

[Serban55]

I think the otherwise and apple will embrace even more the touch bar with feedback maybe, lets hope apple will do as default what we can do with bettertouch tool app

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I'm strongly in the "it should be a BTO option". The default could be with the TB, then - for a fee - those who feels it gets in the way might even pay a few bucks to get rid of it.

I was (slightly) optimistic about the Touch Bar when I replaced my 2010 11" MacBook Air, with the then brand new low end 13" MacBook Pro 1.4GHz, in August 2019.

After a year or so I had had it. The lack of a physical escape key (which was fixed on later models) was a hard pass, and constantly touching the bar inadvertently to play/pause music, activate Siri, etc. was a pretty huge annoyance.

Also, apart from picking the odd emoji, I'd not really found anything the Touch Bar was good for. None of the apps I use provided anything useful via the Touch Bar. Those with different work flows might feel otherwise.

So, when the M1 Macs were announced, I got myself the new Air, sold my MBP - with its Touch Bar - and couldn't be happier.

Now, even if I graze the play/pause button while typing a number, I don't start (or stop) the music playing, I actually have to press the button to do that. That's bliss.

 

[doolar]

I'm strongly in the "it should be a BTO option". The default could be with the TB, then - for a fee - those who feels it gets in the way might even pay a few bucks to get rid of it.

I was (slightly) optimistic about the Touch Bar when I replaced my 2010 11" MacBook Air, with the then brand new low end 13" MacBook Pro 1.4GHz, in August 2019.

After a year or so I had had it. The lack of a physical escape key (which was fixed on later models) was a hard pass, and constantly touching the bar inadvertently to play/pause music, activate Siri, etc. was a pretty huge annoyance.

Also, apart from picking the odd emoji, I'd not really found anything the Touch Bar was good for. None of the apps I use provided anything useful via the Touch Bar. Those with different work flows might feel otherwise.

So, when the M1 Macs were announced, I got myself the new Air, sold my MBP - with its Touch Bar - and couldn't be happier.

Now, even if I grace the play/pause button while typing a number, I don't start (or stop) the music playing, I actually have to press the button to do that. That's bliss.

That’s Porsche logic. Remove features, charge more money for it.

But yes, I’ll take it, paying for getting physical keys. Don’t think it will ever happen though.

I’ve used TB since 2017, and in total it makes my workflow slower. I’m not hating it, it is/was pretty cool to use, but as soon as I’m back on the external Apple keyboard muscle memory kicks in an my productivity with it.

 

[shenfrey]

It's not happening. If you remember, Apple did bring it back once not long after they introduced the TB Mac. For whatever reason, Apple did away with the option. I am glad for the MBA option. I don't hate the TB its just I have no real need for it. and it gets in the way of my typing and my workflow.

How on earth does it get in the way of typing? It is above the number keys, so what you're saying is you pressed the F keys a lot when typing? Otherwise I have no idea what you mean because my fingers don't go anywhere near the Touch Bar when I am typing unless you have seriously long fingers, which in that case the number keys would have gotten in your way long before the F keys did, so they should be the first thing you dislike, not the Touch Bar. Yet your MBA has the number row, you're happy, so how do they not get in the way of typing? You can also enable the Touch Bar to ONLY show the function keys if you do type with them a lot.

I don't mean to come across rude, but I just don't get the argument, it literally makes no sense.

 

[Apple_Robert]

How on earth does it get in the way of typing? It is above the number keys, so what you're saying is you pressed the F keys a lot when typing? Otherwise I have no idea what you mean because my fingers don't go anywhere near the Touch Bar when I am typing unless you have seriously long fingers, which in that case the number keys would have gotten in your way long before the F keys did, so they should be the first thing you dislike, not the Touch Bar. Yet your MBA has the number row, you're happy, so how do they not get in the way of typing? You can also enable the Touch Bar to ONLY show the function keys if you do type with them a lot.

I don't mean to come across rude, but I just don't get the argument, it literally makes no sense.

I don't know if the TB design changed from when it first came out, as I had the 2016 - 2017 models and my fingers were always inadvertently hitting the touch bar. I also didn't like that I had to constantly look down to use the Touch Bar which slowed my work flow at the time.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

How on earth does it get in the way of typing? It is above the number keys, so what you're saying is you pressed the F keys a lot when typing? Otherwise I have no idea what you mean because my fingers don't go anywhere near the Touch Bar when I am typing unless you have seriously long fingers, which in that case the number keys would have gotten in your way long before the F keys did, so they should be the first thing you dislike, not the Touch Bar. Yet your MBA has the number row, you're happy, so how do they not get in the way of typing? You can also enable the Touch Bar to ONLY show the function keys if you do type with them a lot.

I don't mean to come across rude, but I just don't get the argument, it literally makes no sense.

The difference between the Touch Bar and physical keys is that just the slightest graze on the Touch Bar is enough to trigger it, while with physical keys you have to press them down, making it that much harder to indadvertedly do something unintended.

If you always manage to just touch the keys you intended, good for you, but I'm not that precise in my typing; especially when typing numbers, which I typically do with my index finger, making it easy to graze the F keys with the middle finger. With physical keys this is not a problem...with the Touch Bar...well...I manage to make enough contact with that to trigger unwanted behaviour often enough for it to be annoying.

Remember, just because you are happy with something, everyone else might not be. This is why BTO options are good, making it easier for most people to get something that suits them.

 

[shenfrey]

The difference between the Touch Bar and physical keys is that just the slightest graze on the Touch Bar is enough to trigger it, while with physical keys you have to press them down, making it that much harder to indadvertedly do something unintended.

If you always manage to just touch the keys you intended, good for you, but I'm not that precise in my typing; especially when typing numbers, which I typically do with my index finger, making it easy to graze the F keys with the middle finger. With physical keys this is not a problem...with the Touch Bar...well...I manage to make enough contact with that to trigger unwanted behaviour often enough for it to be annoying.

Remember, just because you are happy with something, everyone else might not be. This is why BTO options are good, making it easier for most people to get something that suits them.

I see. Well this makes more sense, but I still find it a little odd you’re hitting it by accident because even with function keys I never went anywhere near them, nor the number keys unless I needed them.

I guess we all type a little differently though. I do find this problem to be very specific and I don’t think is enough justification to remove it necessarily, but yes a BTO option wouldn’t hurt anyone. Win win.

 

[OUsooner08]

There are rumors of a new generation of MacBook Pros (14” and 16”) coming out this year with Apple Silicon and a new design. Do you think Apple will finally ditch the touchbar? Do you want them to?

I sure hope not!! I absolutely love the innovation of the Touch Bar. I use mine daily. Some of my games have started using it and it really makes them so much easier to play vs remembering “x button does this.”
I’ve personally have never had a single issue with my Touch Bar.

 

[OUsooner08]

1. Working outside makes the Touch Bar unusable - It's hard enough to view screens in sunlight, and the Touch Bar is even more difficult to use
2. Some websites make the Touch Bar change constantly, making it a distraction.
3. Lack of uniformity across the MacBook line. Just like adding FaceID to nearly every iPhone, you just don't get super adoption and developers optimizing for it unless it makes it to more models.
4. It turns off and you have to wake it up

I work outside daily without issue. Never seen a website constantly change it. It’s on every MB except the air. No different than cheaper iPhones and iPads still having Touch ID. The touch bar doesn’t turn off, unless you have a faulty one. The basic volume, screen brightness, etc keys are always there and available, unless your in an app with contextual options.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I see. Well this makes more sense, but I still find it a little odd you’re hitting it by accident because even with function keys I never went anywhere near them, nor the number keys unless I needed them.

That is the point: I'm not hitting them, it takes but the softes little touch for the Touch Bar to react...

 

[1240766]

Grumpy Grandpas is a bit strong 😅

As someone who used the Touch Bar since 2016 and am now on an M1 Air, I really don't miss it at all. I get many are ok with it, but to me there are significant issues with the Touch Bar:

1. Reliability - Happened a few times too many I just reset my computer to deal with Touch Bar issues
2. Moving targets for muscle memory - It's super nice always knowing where my volume keys and etc are on a keyboard for muscle memory
3. No support on any external keyboard that Apple makes - We're nearly 5 years in at this point, and there's not a single external keyboard that has a touchbar. Makes it hard for people to integrate it into their flows (Especially those of us that use external displays and monitors)
4. Working outside makes the Touch Bar unusable - It's hard enough to view screens in sunlight, and the Touch Bar is even more difficult to use
5. Some websites make the Touch Bar change constantly, making it a distraction.
6. Lack of uniformity across the MacBook line. Just like adding FaceID to nearly every iPhone, you just don't get super adoption and developers optimizing for it unless it makes it to more models.
7. It turns off and you have to wake it up

Basically I largely used it as a glorified emoji picker. I'm not going to say it's an utterly terrible thing, it just hasn't personally enhanced really anything about my flow, and has made keys many of us are used to (Like F7 etc for debuggers and such) hidden. It's a surprisingly unpolished thing that Apple hasn't fully utilized IMO. Those are my reasons why they might scrap it, just like the old, defective keyboard design. But honestly, they're more likely to double down on it.

It's very confusing cause it's on their pro line of laptops, but seems more optimized for non-pros that aren't used to using traditional keyboard shortcuts. But Pro's are in many shapes and sizes so maybe others out there adore it.

Quote in bold above is THE BEST description on the negatives of the Touch Bar - Another note, people are able to articulate why the TB is a pita (like the post above) but not so much why TB is a good thing...

That being said - in order to have more battery life and a fan in case your workflow requires you to do very process intensive tasks with lots of disk I/O, you have to take the TB down your throat - lol.... I don't blame Apple, that is their strategy and I respect that. I wish it was different, but it is what it is...Apple has its strategy, I can either take it or leave it.