What are they doing about MBP Keyboard?? I’m 1 month out of warranty

[csurfr]

It's getting tough to maintain your composure with something like this keyboard situation where they clearly have reps who have been coached to deny anything is wrong.

That kind of lack of honesty just drives me insane very quickly

For me, I haven't had any problems with my 2017s (well documented here on the forums). However, what I have going through my mind right this minute is that I'm about to take a couple of very intense programming classes to boost some of the capabilities of our business. I need to be able to depend on the machine for 8 hours a day without question...

And so it becomes, do I just keep the 13" (still within the return period) and hope it doesn't exhibit any of these problems, or do I return it and find a 2015 which you could essentially set your watch by. The fact that I am even considering this scares the hell out of me.

 

[turbineseaplane]

For me, I haven't had any problems with my 2017s (well documented here on the forums). However, what I have going through my mind right this minute is that I'm about to take a couple of very intense programming classes to boost some of the capabilities of our business. I need to be able to depend on the machine for 8 hours a day without question...

And so it becomes, do I just keep the 13" (still within the return period) and hope it doesn't exhibit any of these problems, or do I return it and find a 2015 which you could essentially set your watch by. The fact that I am even considering this scares the hell out of me.

Personally - I'd not want a 2016/2017 model, simply on possible resale value alone.

If Apple truly does hear any of this and do something to address it, the 2016/2017's will be complete lemon generations in the eyes of the resale market. Machines that might be great, might not - you just don't know - and everyone clamoring to get the new/fixed/changed ones.

Maybe they won't change anything - But I think they will ultimately simply based upon warranty costs for them so far. This is an expensive and overly complex repair issue that even a small uptick in (which sounds highly likely has been the case) is very noticeable on the books.

Bean Counter Tim does not like anything digging into overall profitability on a product to this extent..
[doublepost=1521046114][/doublepost]

The fact that I am even considering this scares the hell out of me.

This line is the most telling and I don't blame you a bit.
I'd do whatever it takes to change that situation in your mind.

Peace of mind has exceptional value in my book.

 

[Mockletoy]

It's getting tough to maintain your composure with something like this keyboard situation where they clearly have reps who have been coached to deny anything is wrong.

That kind of lack of honesty just drives me insane very quickly

Oh, me too, trust me. But in this "relationship", Apple has all the power, so everything we do when we deal with them must incentivize them to help us. And we're not dealing with the Apple execs who make these decisions, we're just dealing with some person working for not enough money in a call center or Apple store.

Plus, it's just a simple self-serving calculation. Being nice to them isn't just the right thing to do, but if the last 5 people they dealt with were nasty to them and you approach them with patience and kindness, that might just be the difference between them doing everything they can to help you or ... not.

For me, I haven't had any problems with my 2017s (well documented here on the forums). However, what I have going through my mind right this minute is that I'm about to take a couple of very intense programming classes to boost some of the capabilities of our business. I need to be able to depend on the machine for 8 hours a day without question...

And so it becomes, do I just keep the 13" (still within the return period) and hope it doesn't exhibit any of these problems, or do I return it and find a 2015 which you could essentially set your watch by. The fact that I am even considering this scares the hell out of me.

That's what has been bugging me with mine. I live in Kansas City, but sometimes travel to Florida, and I always make sure I have a bluetooth keyboard with me just in case my keyboard flakes out on me again at an inopportune time. That really just doesn't feel very Apple-like, if you know what I mean. Going from "it just works" to having to plan carefully around the possibility that it might just decide not to work. It's an expensive device to not be able to trust.

That being said, folks who have problems are far more likely to make noise than those who haven't.

Statistically, I imagine you have little to worry about. Most of these devices are probably just fine, and the 2017s probably more so than the 2016s.

 

[turbineseaplane]

That being said, folks who have problems are far more likely to make noise than those who haven't.

Statistically, I imagine you have little to worry about. Most of these devices are probably just fine, and the 2017s probably more so than the 2016s.

I don't know man - It's pretty galling to see how wide this issue has been across pro photographers, podcasters, App devs, mac Software devs..many who are usually TOTALLY in the bag for Apple and will defend them like the best forum fanboy ever...

I've heard a "bad MBP" story from so many far reaching and unrelated areas.
It's definitely something way more than the forum/echo chamber here.

Objectively, it's a bigger problem than ever before (in 2015 and earlier) and it seems like it ends up hitting so many, eventually, just a matter of time.

I really believe these are some of the worst laptops they've ever made, just on consistency and reliability.

 

[JohnnyWmac]

FINAL VERDICT: I’m Happy! They did right by me. Reduced price.

More Flies with Honey!!

They sent me a Feedback Survey the minute I left the store after dropping off the machine. about my experience with the Genius and my issue in general. I praised the Genius to the extreme. Then I used the space to ‘add additional comments’ to write a cool and composed argument about the issue. I mentioned all of the Apple products, computers, tablets, and Beats I’ve purchased for myself and family (every iPhone since the iPhone 3).

I explained that I am not going to jump over to a Dell, but this product was a month out of warranty and that this is not a problem with dust, it is a design flaw that they’ve failed to rectify in 2 years. I said tens of thousands of people are suffering with the issue. If they won’t issue a recall why not just do right by loyal customers and repair it at ‘cost?’

Also, I explained that ‘this is not the kind of quality I have come to expect from Apple. it’s disapointing to me. That I keep coming back because of extremely reliable machines that last 10 years, not 1 year. Plus, I buy from them because they take care of me, and in this instance they are “shafting me.” This keyboard issue is a sorry state of affairs for Apple.’

At noon I got a phone call. Less than 48 hours after drop off. ‘Hi it’s the Apple Store! I just wanted to let you know that your computer is fixed, we replaced the top plate and battery, and the price that we gave you was wrong. It will be $275, not the original $475 we quoted you.

I was assured by the Genius when I picked it up, that my feedback in the survey had an effect on the outcome.
[doublepost=1521058836][/doublepost]The first person who replied to this thread had it down to a T. No pun intended on my dead T key.

Be really nice and and express my displeasure and move it up the line. The Store Manager read that Feedback this morning.

I also asked for a manager and thanked her. Told her I will keep coming back because she took care of me! I think it’s more than fair.

 

[Mockletoy]

That's great news, and goes back to what I was saying earlier in the thread about Apple having all the power in these interactions. They have the final say, and so anything we can do to make them think of us sympathetically rather than adversarially is not only the right thing to do in general, it's just smart tactics.

Whenever I see people talking about how "overpriced" Apple stuff is, I always think to myself that it's hard to put a dollar amount or percentage on the peace of mind that comes from having the Apple stores available. Being able to walk in there and work eye-to-eye with a real live human being to solve problems is definitely worth something.

If I'm ever feeling down on Apple products, I just go over to forum.notebookreview.com and read the horror stories about Alienware "service techs" horribly damaging or even destroying machines during the course of simple repairs, or people who have sent their defective laptops back to Asus or whomever 4 times, and this time they've had it for over a month and who even knows when it'll ever be fixed ...

 

[groove-agent]

That's great that you haven't had any problems with your 2017, but may I ask how long have you had it?

Usually I've found those who report no problems with the keyboard say "thus far" and it turns out they haven't even had the unit for a year.

I suspect the longer you have it, the higher the chance it's going to fail.

For me, I haven't had any problems with my 2017s (well documented here on the forums). However, what I have going through my mind right this minute is that I'm about to take a couple of very intense programming classes to boost some of the capabilities of our business. I need to be able to depend on the machine for 8 hours a day without question...

And so it becomes, do I just keep the 13" (still within the return period) and hope it doesn't exhibit any of these problems, or do I return it and find a 2015 which you could essentially set your watch by. The fact that I am even considering this scares the hell out of me.

[doublepost=1521064493][/doublepost]That's great that you got results that you're happy with but if I may play devil's advocate for a moment..

So basically Apple wanted to charge you big money for a design flaw on a "like new" premium laptop. The fact that they gave you a discount still doesn't seem right to me. They shouldn't be charging you anything to fix their engineering, and there's no guarantee it's not going to fail in a few months anyway. So not only did they get you to pay them money to fix their mistake, but make you think they're doing you a huge favour.

That's marketing for you.

Legally of course, if you have no warranty or extended warranty you're out of luck. Morally they should be fixing these crappy keyboards for free.

FINAL VERDICT: I’m Happy! They did right by me. Reduced price.

More Flies with Honey!!

They sent me a Feedback Survey the minute I left the store after dropping off the machine. about my experience with the Genius and my issue in general. I praised the Genius to the extreme. Then I used the space to ‘add additional comments’ to write a cool and composed argument about the issue. I mentioned all of the Apple products, computers, tablets, and Beats I’ve purchased for myself and family (every iPhone since the iPhone 3).

I explained that I am not going to jump over to a Dell, but this product was a month out of warranty and that this is not a problem with dust, it is a design flaw that they’ve failed to rectify in 2 years. I said tens of thousands of people are suffering with the issue. If they won’t issue a recall why not just do right by loyal customers and repair it at ‘cost?’

Also, I explained that ‘this is not the kind of quality I have come to expect from Apple. it’s disapointing to me. That I keep coming back because of extremely reliable machines that last 10 years, not 1 year. Plus, I buy from them because they take care of me, and in this instance they are “shafting me.” This keyboard issue is a sorry state of affairs for Apple.’

At noon I got a phone call. Less than 48 hours after drop off. ‘Hi it’s the Apple Store! I just wanted to let you know that your computer is fixed, we replaced the top plate and battery, and the price that we gave you was wrong. It will be $275, not the original $475 we quoted you.

I was assured by the Genius when I picked it up, that my feedback in the survey had an effect on the outcome.
[doublepost=1521058836][/doublepost]The first person who replied to this thread had it down to a T. No pun intended on my dead T key.

Be really nice and and express my displeasure and move it up the line. The Store Manager read that Feedback this morning.

I also asked for a manager and thanked her. Told her I will keep coming back because she took care of me! I think it’s more than fair.

 

[csurfr]

That's great that you haven't had any problems with your 2017, but may I ask how long have you had it?

Usually I've found those who report no problems with the keyboard say "thus far" and it turns out they haven't even had the unit for a year.

I suspect the longer you have it, the higher the chance it's going to fail.

Well, as the 2017 hasn't been out for a year, that would not be possible. I purchased a 15" 2017 when they were first released (no issues), another 15" 2017 at the end of July I believe (no issues), and more recently a 13" 2017 a few weeks ago (no issues).

 

[Naimfan]

Well, as the 2017 hasn't been out for a year, that would not be possible. I purchased a 15" 2017 when they were first released (no issues), another 15" 2017 at the end of July I believe (no issues), and more recently a 13" 2017 a few weeks ago (no issues).

Lucky.

I have a 2017 that I bought last Thursday. The "b" key is either not registering or double-entering about half the time. It'll be returned Friday. S/N on request if desired.

 

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

Yeah, anecdotes like this completely put me off of the 2016/2017 lineup. As I writer I'm just not willing to take that risk even though I desperately want a new machine. I'm kind of stunned Apple has futzed this so hard.

 

[JohnnyWmac]

Agreed with Mockletoy.

If you buy a Toshiba at Best Buy for $1,200, and the keyboard or motherboard goes in 14 months, THATS IT! You are officially screwed. Not the case with Apple.

Yes I still paid for a repair. However, there are people paying over $700 for this repair, if I am not mistaken. The people that posted in this thread told me it would cost that much. I was mortified and extremely upset about that price. $750 takes a chunk out of my budget, but the $275 doesn’t give me a heart attack. They had the choice of a pure Upper Case Repair price of about $750. The first thing they did was give me the Fixed Price Option which I did not know was a thing. Someone mentioned it last night and I looked into it. You can have your entire computer refurbished for a certain price and it’s lower than a single repair. Fixed Price was on my Initial Invoice. I looked this morning.

You can take that view that they charged me for their own mistake and I don’t think that’s bad logic. It is a little devil’s advocatey, but I don’t disagree with the logic.
[doublepost=1521068782][/doublepost]TH4D4R - You can get a killer 2014 Apple Refurbished cheap!!! That’s what I’d get. And the battery life is better. My 2014 15” Pro had the best battery of any computer I’ve ever had.

Or wait for a new Gen. if you are not worried about weight, go 2014! And put AppleCare on it.

 

[stigman]

Whatever you say guys it's fishy story with 2017 line of macbooks and going for one these machines without apple care might be painful. If I don't pay for apple care I'll be charged more than If I would buy it so it's the best option with the risk which has to be consider.

 

[jerryk]

Agreed with Mockletoy.

If you buy a Toshiba at Best Buy for $1,200, and the keyboard or motherboard goes in 14 months, THATS IT! You are officially screwed. Not the case with Apple.

Yes I still paid for a repair. However, there are people paying over $700 for this repair, if I am not mistaken. The people that posted in this thread told me it would cost that much. I was mortified and extremely upset about that price. $750 takes a chunk out of my budget, but the $275 doesn’t give me a heart attack. They had the choice of a pure Upper Case Repair price of about $750. The first thing they did was give me the Fixed Price Option which I did not know was a thing. Someone mentioned it last night and I looked into it. You can have your entire computer refurbished for a certain price and it’s lower than a single repair. Fixed Price was on my Initial Invoice. I looked this morning.

You can take that view that they charged me for their own mistake and I don’t think that’s bad logic. It is a little devil’s advocatey, but I don’t disagree with the logic.

Glad it worked out, but still the keyboard should not have failed unless you did something. And you are still out $275. Is it bad design, bad materials, or bad luck? Unfortunately we do not know.

I sure hope these system do not become like the 2011 15 rMBPs with the Nvidia GPUs. Where there is a repair and fail cycle.

 

[exogeneity]

It has been almost a week and my Macbook is still not back yet

 

[JohnnyWmac]

Glad it worked out, but still the keyboard should not have failed unless you did something. And you are still out $275. Is it bad design, bad materials, or bad luck? Unfortunately we do not know.

I sure hope these system do not become like the 2011 15 rMBPs with the Nvidia GPUs. Where there is a repair and fail cycle.

Glad it worked out, but still the keyboard should not have failed unless you did something. And you are still out $275. Is it bad design, bad materials, or bad luck? Unfortunately we do not know.

I sure hope these system do not become like the 2011 15 rMBPs with the Nvidia GPUs. Where there is a repair and fail cycle.

I do not think this is a real fix. Their advice is to be very careful and clean with it. They said bring it in whenever I want and they’ll use they’re equipment to blow out and vacuum the keyboard.

Well you guys are going to laugh at this and attempt to stab an Apple logo with a steak knife, but I asked ‘how do I prevent this in the future?’ The advice, which will work I’m sure: Go on Amazon and get a custom keyboard cover. The guy who gave me back my computer uses one because he knows the deal. He actually likes the thing.

So considering their offer to clean at it regularly and advice to put a cover on it, this is the same exact keyboard. I’m afraid to open it up without a sterile laboratory environment to check it out.

Now the cover m is ABSOLUTELY no reasonable solution. But, since this is THE $2000 computer I own, and I just put $275 into it, I think I’m going to have to eat some crow on that idiotic solution. I’ll probably hate it. Maybe I’ll love it.

I do think stuff is getting in there. I think the butterfly mechanism is fragile. The travel is insanely slight. To top it off if something gets in, it’s not coming out. I mean greasy fingers, a sliver of fleece, whatever. I think it’s a reach to say this is heat or something.

 

[Sebastian79]

I do not think this is a real fix. Their advice is to be very careful and clean with it. They said bring it in whenever I want and they’ll use they’re equipment to blow out and vacuum the keyboard.

Well you guys are going to laugh at this and attempt to stab an Apple logo with a steak knife, but I asked ‘how do I prevent this in the future?’ The advice, which will work I’m sure: Go on Amazon and get a custom keyboard cover. The guy who gave me back my computer uses one because he knows the deal. He actually likes the thing.

So considering their offer to clean at it regularly and advice to put a cover on it, this is the same exact keyboard. I’m afraid to open it up without a sterile laboratory environment to check it out.

Now the cover m is ABSOLUTELY no reasonable solution. But, since this is THE $2000 computer I own, and I just put $275 into it, I think I’m going to have to eat some crow on that idiotic solution. I’ll probably hate it. Maybe I’ll love it.

I do think stuff is getting in there. I think the butterfly mechanism is fragile. The travel is insanely slight. To top it off if something gets in, it’s not coming out. I mean greasy fingers, a sliver of fleece, whatever. I think it’s a reach to say this is heat or something.

WWDC18 we'll be seeing the latest innovation from apple: the iCover for MBPs. Be ready to preorder guys! while supplies last...

 

[l.a.rossmann]

If you buy a Toshiba at Best Buy for $1,200, and the keyboard or motherboard goes in 14 months, THATS IT! You are officially screwed. Not the case with Apple.

The Toshiba at Best Buy typically has a keyboard that costs $20 on eBay. It is often held in by as few as four screws. A child inexperienced with a screwdriver can replace it in five minutes following a Youtube video.

Macbooks have keyboards that are held in by 70+ rivets - often requiring you to remove every element from the case, remove a glued in battery that will blow up if touched improperly, rip out the 70+ rivets, screw 70+ screws into holes you have to thread yourself, and reassemble everything. Oh, and the keyboards to the newer models are going for $100+ by themselves.

IMO, not a fair comparison. While it is great that in this case they took care of someone, it is by no means an even comparison to a machine that is more easily serviceable.

 

[Wags]

Whatever you say guys it's fishy story with 2017 line of macbooks and going for one these machines without apple care might be painful. If I don't pay for apple care I'll be charged more than If I would buy it so it's the best option with the risk which has to be consider.

What about when AppleCare expires? Shouldn’t have to be worried after that. Especially if have top line MPB15. Too much investment.

 

[csurfr]

What about when AppleCare expires? Shouldn’t have to be worried after that. Especially if have top line MPB15. Too much investment.

You’re not wrong. Not one bit.

 

[stigman]

What about when AppleCare expires? Shouldn’t have to be worried after that. Especially if have top line MPB15. Too much investment.

If you agree on therms they offer, if you agree on price that you have to pay in case when some parts act up then you don't suffer from stockholm syndrome.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone made business with it and come up with custom keyboard for 2017 line models.

Apple don't care about this. They will sell licence and someone will produce silicone covers, but it's not about dust though. It's about faulty design. It will last until you get rid of that.

 

[stigman]

The Toshiba at Best Buy typically has a keyboard that costs $20 on eBay. It is often held in by as few as four screws. A child inexperienced with a screwdriver can replace it in five minutes following a Youtube video.

Macbooks have keyboards that are held in by 70+ rivets - often requiring you to remove every element from the case, remove a glued in battery that will blow up if touched improperly, rip out the 70+ rivets, screw 70+ screws into holes you have to thread yourself, and reassemble everything. Oh, and the keyboards to the newer models are going for $100+ by themselves.

IMO, not a fair comparison. While it is great that in this case they took care of someone, it is by no means an even comparison to a machine that is more easily serviceable.

Louis, could you have a look on keyboard in any 2017 model? What’s your opinion about it?

 

[tubular]

FWIW I use keyboard covers from KBCovers and can recommend them. Not really necessary in my case except to reduce keycap wear, but X years ago I took out a keyboard with a can of Coke, and I'm clearly traumatized.

http://kbcovers.com

I'd also add that last fall, when it was time to upgrade my laptop, I bought the 2015 15" rather than one of the 2016 models. MagSafe and actual ports, no touch bar (for which I find no real use case) and the previous style keyboard. Plus a KBcover to keep it pristine. And the mandatory HAL-9000 sticker.

Apple is clearly swimming in the wrong direction here.

 

[JohnnyWmac]

All good points. Especially about the $20 Toshiba Keyboard. One thing that kills me is that the Upper Case part alone, I found it new or in A+ condition, will cost you $600.

I had the entire job done for under $300 with sales tax!! I have a tech guru Engineer buddy that told me, “If you get the part, I can put it in.” I could get it, for $600. At that time I thought the whole repair was 700+ so I thought let Apple do it.

The Moshi cover is $24.99 online everywhere and is .5 millimeters thick. A lot of people have this type of thing because at one point they pushed over their Latte directly into the keyboard. This cover even prevents that from getting in. It’s removable and washable. But many folks don’t like the feel of it.

My nephew just got a sweet 15” MBP. Besides insisting he get AppleCare, I’m pushing a keyboard cover and the Tech 21 Case. I need the Tech 21 myself, those are great. He’s doing all of it. Computer was $3000. APPLECARE + - ‘Plus,’ the accidental coverage, is pretty sweet now. Smashed screen - $99 copay (twice). The most expensive copay is $299 for accidents. It’s $379 on B&H.

Extremely worth it.
[doublepost=1521124532][/doublepost]

FWIW I use keyboard covers from KBCovers and can recommend them. Not really necessary in my case except to reduce keycap wear, but X years ago I took out a keyboard with a can of Coke, and I'm clearly traumatized.

http://kbcovers.com

I'd also add that last fall, when it was time to upgrade my laptop, I bought the 2015 15" rather than one of the 2016 models. MagSafe and actual ports, no touch bar (for which I find no real use case) and the previous style keyboard. Plus a KBcover to keep it pristine. And the mandatory HAL-9000 sticker.

Apple is clearly swimming in the wrong direction here.

Those KB look nice. I’d get one of those. Does the letter light shine through on the colored ones?

How about this design (not KB) hehe

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:
A keyboard "cover" may or may not help.
The problem may be heat-related, and have little to do with "dust" or other stuff getting stuck under the keys.

Your repair experience was a good one.
I believe -- as the KeyGate™ brouhaha continues to develop -- that we'll eventually see Apple offering out-of-warranty owners the same deal that you got. That is [what looks to be] "replacement at cost".

But, if it gets worse, with more and more failures...
I wouldn't be surprised to see a class-action lawsuit at some point (didn't they have the same with RadeonGate?). If it gets that far, Apple may institute some kind of "silent replacement" program, where the keyboard is repaired free. Not generally "advertised" as a "recall", but it will be there if owners experience problems.

 

[groove-agent]

Yes but that $1200 Toshiba is unlikely to have soldered in components which cost $700 to replace a keyboard. My Dell I can easily replace most of the components myself. Also one could argue that the $1200 Toshiba keyboard is less likely to fail than your $3000 Apple Macbook Pro.

This high cost (which they’re giving you a *deal* on) is again a result of their bad design because they want to make things thin.

Again though, I'm glad you're happy with the results. Maybe you will be able to get that money back if and when a class action lawsuit starts up. Keep your receipt.

Agreed with Mockletoy.

If you buy a Toshiba at Best Buy for $1,200, and the keyboard or motherboard goes in 14 months, THATS IT! You are officially screwed. Not the case with Apple.

Yes I still paid for a repair. However, there are people paying over $700 for this repair, if I am not mistaken. The people that posted in this thread told me it would cost that much. I was mortified and extremely upset about that price. $750 takes a chunk out of my budget, but the $275 doesn’t give me a heart attack. They had the choice of a pure Upper Case Repair price of about $750. The first thing they did was give me the Fixed Price Option which I did not know was a thing. Someone mentioned it last night and I looked into it. You can have your entire computer refurbished for a certain price and it’s lower than a single repair. Fixed Price was on my Initial Invoice. I looked this morning.

You can take that view that they charged me for their own mistake and I don’t think that’s bad logic. It is a little devil’s advocatey, but I don’t disagree with the logic.
[doublepost=1521068782][/doublepost]TH4D4R - You can get a killer 2014 Apple Refurbished cheap!!! That’s what I’d get. And the battery life is better. My 2014 15” Pro had the best battery of any computer I’ve ever had.

Or wait for a new Gen. if you are not worried about weight, go 2014! And put AppleCare on it.

[doublepost=1521129094][/doublepost]AppleCare is essential these days. I’ve used it on every mac since 2007 (needing repair). Anything I bought before 2006 has never need repairs. I still have a 2006 mini that is on its original hard drive.

Whatever you say guys it's fishy story with 2017 line of macbooks and going for one these machines without apple care might be painful. If I don't pay for apple care I'll be charged more than If I would buy it so it's the best option with the risk which has to be consider.

[doublepost=1521130509][/doublepost]I think the dust and debris theory is more likely.

According to MR, Apple just got approved a patent for a dust and debris proof keyboard which could imply that this is the main cause of the keyboard failures.

OP:
A keyboard "cover" may or may not help.
The problem may be heat-related, and have little to do with "dust" or other stuff getting stuck under the keys.

Your repair experience was a good one.
I believe -- as the KeyGate™ brouhaha continues to develop -- that we'll eventually see Apple offering out-of-warranty owners the same deal that you got. That is [what looks to be] "replacement at cost".

But, if it gets worse, with more and more failures...
I wouldn't be surprised to see a class-action lawsuit at some point (didn't they have the same with RadeonGate?). If it gets that far, Apple may institute some kind of "silent replacement" program, where the keyboard is repaired free. Not generally "advertised" as a "recall", but it will be there if owners experience problems.