What are they doing about MBP Keyboard?? I’m 1 month out of warranty

[Mockletoy]

I will stick with a company that makes good faith mistakes and then acts in good faith to correct them.

I'll let you know if I find such a company. Look at the way Apple handles this type of situation every single time: ignore, ignore, ignore, deny, deny, deny, wait, wait, wait, then eventually -- very eventually -- admit what everyone already knows, that there was a problem all along. Then they'll address it, finally, at long last, after far too many people have already had to deal with all the denials and have already paid often exorbitant fees to have Apple fix their own mistake.

But it's not just Apple. Other companies, in the tech industry and elsewhere, are just as bad, and as long as there are no real consequences for dragging their feet and leaving people hanging they'll continue to do it. Sure, a few class action attorneys will get fat paydays off of it, but that's about it. A little blip on the profit and loss statement, easily absorbed.

I mean, if the car industry can get away with slow-rolling recalls -- and it does -- when people's literal lives and safety are at risk, I don't think Apple is too worried about being punished for selling people computers with keyboards it knows to be defective. Or Samsung's exploding batteries.

The thing with this keyboard, though, is that it's so silly and pointless. They "fixed" a "problem" that never existed by taking a fantastic keyboard, one of the best in the industry, and brutalizing it in the name of shaving off an imperceptible few fractions of an inch in thickness and a an imperceptible few grams in weight.

But you know what? Now when I travel with my MacBook Pro I have to pack in a Bluetooth keyboard just in case. So, there go the weight savings and then some, not to mention peace of mind and "it just works."

But this isn't Apple's fault, it's mine. I wanted an Apple device, I've been using Macs for a long, long time, and this was what they had for sale, so it's what I bought. I shouldn't have bought it, I knew at the time it wasn't really what I wanted, and it's silly for me to be angry with them for not building me what I want to buy. But, macOS is what I'm used to, it's where all my muscle memory is, etc., it's what I prefer to use. But at this point Apple doesn't really make any computers I want to buy, and I don't see that changing soon. But, again, they're certainly under no obligation to cater their product lineup to my tastes.

So these sealed, unfixable computing appliances Apple has begun manufacturing are maybe just not for me. I mean, come on. If a key fails on your keyboard you have to throw literally half your laptop in the garbage? That's just stupid industrial design, the epitome of form over function. And on top of that stupid design choice, they move to a keyboard design that fails pretty regularly. It's just dumb.

 

[ActionableMango]

$475 total. New Upper Case with keyboard, trackpad, new battery, cleaning, wipe/ Turnaround 3-5 days (which always turns out to be 3).

Did the credit card you use for the purchase happen to have a warranty extension like your new VISA Chase?

I had to have my iPhone repaired at the cost of $199, post-warranty. I made a claim to the credit card company and they paid the claim in full. I didn't go out of my way to use a card that doubles the warranty, I think most cards have that feature.

It doesn't hurt to call up customer support and ask. Certainly worth your time if it pays off.

 

[JohnnyWmac]

Mokletoy, that’s totally correct.

Actionable, I did not use my Visa Signature, which doubles the warranties on things. Now I know!!

Lessons learned: Keep up with ‘known issues’ and watch out for them before warranty expires. Buy the AppleCare, use a solid Credit Card that extends the warranty.
[doublepost=1520968956][/doublepost]Also: I Just Got a Survey from Apple and I gave the employee a good review but not the product or what they are doing about it.

I told them this is not “dust” it’s a “major design flaw,” that they have not corrected in 2 years. I’m very disappointed in Apple on this and I want something done for me. It’s too long to go through what I said.

Who knows. Will definitely badger the store manager when I pick it up. Gimme a new leather phone case and screen protector!! Haha.

 

[Hand_Model]

x

 

[stigman]

Listen up all people who have been told that dust causes this issue. It's technically not posibble. It's ridiculous excuse of apple which wants to cover it up. The thing is this keyboard is badly designed and they will institute repair program but before that they do they will be denying that it's minor issue of users. Keyboard literally have some parts which can be blocked after some period of time. It's piece of metal and it's not so flexible as previous materials used to be. This piece of metal inside butterfly mechanism also gives this annoying, loud clicking sound which is loudest I've ever heard using keyboards. It's very likely that some button will stuck and need to be repaired...since it will happen all the time. Think it twice before you buy this machine or if you buy it pay for apple care. I'm user of two apple products: iphone 7 and ipad mini retina 2. I'm very satisfied with them but this issue concerns me so much that I won't buy a new macbook 2017. I hope apple will face another lawsuit in 2018 since they're awfully arrogant to clients and customers. They should repair in 2017 model but they haven't fixed it yet.


Just look at this picture and think what might act up in this mechanism.

http://gsm-info.org/uploads/images/other/apple_event/4.jpg

I've had this butterfly mechanism in my hand ant it's seems to be very weak. Much weaker than scissors one.

 

[Mockletoy]

Why my X key crapped out, it wasn't fouled up, the mechanism simply collapsed in some way. The key was "pressed" but not registering a keypress. So, not pressed, but essentially bottomed out and stuck that way. Pressing hard on the key would cause it to register one or maybe multiple keypresses. Only removing and reattaching the keycap got it working again, luckily enough. Then it happened again a couple of weeks later, exact same thing. Removing and replacing the keycap fixed it again and it's been fine for months.

But, you know, the X key, right? Not E or R or T or the space bar or something that gets a massive amount of use, but probably one of the top five least used alphabet keys on the keyboard.

 

[stigman]

Why my X key crapped out, it wasn't fouled up, the mechanism simply collapsed in some way. The key was "pressed" but not registering a keypress. So, not pressed, but essentially bottomed out and stuck that way. Pressing hard on the key would cause it to register one or maybe multiple keypresses. Only removing and reattaching the keycap got it working again, luckily enough. Then it happened again a couple of weeks later, exact same thing. Removing and replacing the keycap fixed it again and it's been fine for months.

But, you know, the X key, right? Not E or R or T or the space bar or something that gets a massive amount of use, but probably one of the top five least used alphabet keys on the keyboard.

My assumptions:

1. Small piece of metal may tend to wear out. Have you seen this part in previous generation? Personally I have not.

2. Another thing is heat which comes from hardware may change the physics of this little thingy which goes on the top of piece of metal. In the result heat buckles this plastic which may cause this bottomed out and stuck feeling.

I personally think they didn't predict that these models slimmed to be sexy, may generate a heat which could have impact on this keyboard.

 

[groove-agent]

I would have declined the repair, and used a fraction of that money and to buy an inexpensive, travel bluetooth keyboard until they came up with a solution. Otherwise you might be doing the exact same repair in the near future given the frailty of these keyboards.

Speaking of solutions, I just saw this article on MR tucked away in a Quick Take:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...resistant-macbook-keyboards-and-more.2109406/

It looks like Apple might have a solution, or at least an idea for one.

This is also significant because from this patent one might infer that the keyboard issues are in fact from dust and crumbs rather than heat (as some have theorized).

I think this article is more worthy of a "quick take" although it could be MR doesn't want to upset Apple by pointing fingers at Apple's defective keyboards.

Exactly.

And the person on here who says this is my fault and contacting the media would do nothing and blah blah, just go somewhere else. You aren’t helpful and that’s what these forums are for.
[doublepost=1520960945][/doublepost]SITUATION RESOLUTION AS IT STANDS:

I went to Apple and met with a nice young lady. I am exhausted with whatever nasty cold is going around so I didn’t feel like putting up a big fight.

She noticed immediately and admitted the ongoing issue.

$475 total. New Upper Case with keyboard, trackpad, new battery, cleaning, wipe/ Turnaround 3-5 days (which always turns out to be 3).

She said after that to be careful and that I could come in as frequently as I want and they’ll make sure nothing builds up. I was too sick and beat to say, ‘yeah, but why am I paying for this at all?’ The Keyboard is still useable so that would not have flown too well. I was expecting $750. Admittedly I was watching movies and eating all the time!!

She cleaned it out and it was better. She said to give that a go, but the T is always going to be tough. I said, listen, ‘I just never want to think about this again. It’s ticking me off.’ She said, ‘do you want to do the replacement? It’s your choice.’ I said ‘Do it!!’

She noted the computer is in excellent shape. And that the keys we’re sticking and some not working. That gives me some evidence in case I want to call anyone about this.

This will not prevent me from taking it to higher levels at AppleCare. Maybe they’ll throw me a bone. And don’t say ‘No they won’t!’ Because you don’t know me or how to manipulate the system if that’s you’re go-to.

It’s off my mind. It’s worth it to have that computer for a long time now. Also for all intents, I can sell it on eBay and upgrade to an Apple Refurbished for a few bucks.

 

[slimwallet]

Still not sure why there's different price quotes on top case/keyboard replacements. On my 15" fixed under warranty I get:
FLAT RATE 2 REPAIR $695 + $100 Labor Charge.

another time it's:
Flat Rate 1 Repair $310 + $100 Labor Charge.

 

[JohnnyWmac]

My assumptions:

1. Small piece of metal may tend to wear out. Have you seen this part in previous generation? Personally I have not.

2. Another thing is heat which comes from hardware may change the physics of this little thingy which goes on the top of piece of metal. In the result heat buckles this plastic which may cause this bottomed out and stuck feeling.

I personally think they didn't predict that these models slimmed to be sexy, may generate a heat which could have impact on this keyboard.

I tend to agree. Why don’t we all get together and force them to admit this? They sold us a bag of crap and said it was gold and then lie about it. I love Apple, but come on. I think I’m going to keep moving this up the ladder despite the fact that I’m already paying for a repair. The T and B keys were really rough. I have a T in every single password that I use for everything!! So you need to hit it 4 times and maybe it works. So irritating especially if you’re a person lucky enough to type without looking. Plus every email I wrote last week I was just banging on keys and it was infuriating. I must say the whole keyboard started working nicely except the “bad” ones when the young lady did what she did in back.

So I’ll pay up now and see what can be done.
[doublepost=1520979687][/doublepost]The previous poster mentioned the piece of metal under there. If I pry up the key and just press that down, press on the bubble of metal, it works flawless. Put the key back in and it does not. This goes to the butterfly mechanism as far as I’m concerned.

Another thing AppleCare on the phone told me to remove the keys to see if something was under it and it would not void the warranty. He even told me how. In doing so I ‘broke the post’ on 2 of them. How is this my problem??? I gently did what he said.

I used to pry off a key and clean up a ‘scissor’ part and put the thing back together and perfection. Not with these.

 

[exogeneity]

They sold us a lemon!

 

[Miltz]

I think Apple will hasn't issued a recall simply because every unit is affected and the parts cost and labor would be too much for them, and also perhaps because they haven't solved the issue yet. Looks and feels great, design durability is atrocious. Did they even test it for durability in real world environments? Seems like they didn't. If it was just the 2016 models that's one thing, but reports are the 2017 models have the same issue. I thought my 2016 15" MBP was immune since I didn't have any issues until exactly one year later the keyboard started to fail. My laptop is kept in mint condition, and there is no reason keys should fail.

 

[csurfr]

I’m curious. How is it that the forums are slammed with threads about the 2016/2017 MacBook Pro having issue after issue with the keyboards, but I can’t seem to find a single one in the MacBook sub forum.

They are now using the same keyboard. What could possibly be different between them?

 

[turbineseaplane]

They are now using the same keyboard

The travel on the keys is different isn't it?
The implication being that really any differences here could be quite relevant.

Also, if heat is an issue, I have to think the different class of hardware might also be important.

 

[csurfr]

The travel on the keys is different isn't it?
The implication being that really any differences here could be quite relevant.

Also, if heat is an issue, I have to think the different class of hardware might also be important.

I honestly don’t know. I just recall Apple saying at the keynote that the new 2nd gen butterfly keyboard is now in the 2017 MacBook. And as you say, that leads one to think heat might just be a factor.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I honestly don’t know. I just recall Apple saying at the keynote that the new 2nd gen butterfly keyboard is now in the 2017 MacBook. And as you say, that leads one to think heat might just be a factor.

I recall that as well. I think they mean the general design/keyswitches perhaps.

To my fingers the MacBook's feel quite a bit different than the Pro's.
It definitely seems like less travel (amazingly) on the MB's

 

[csurfr]

I recall that as well. I think they mean the general design/keyswitches perhaps.

To my fingers the MacBook's feel quite a bit different than the Pro's.
It definitely seems like less travel (amazingly) on the MB's

I didn’t think less travel could possibly be achieved. It must be like typing directly on a brick.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I didn’t think less travel could possibly be achieved. It must be like typing directly on a brick.

It is. Lol

More seriously it just feels like depressing single stage click buttons more than traditional keyboard keys with feel and travel. I feel that way about all the new keyboards though, just to varying degrees.

Anything less travel and feel than the Magic Keyboard I find to be "too far" for me.

 

[groove-agent]

Last time I was in an Apple store I asked an Apple salesperson if and when they were going to fix the keyboard problems. At the time I really wanted any assurance to buy a 2017. To my surprise, he shyly lied that he "never heard of any keyboard problems" with the Macbook Pros. I left feeling that Apple was pretty shady for telling their employees to lie about their laptops to make a sale.

I tend to agree. Why don’t we all get together and force them to admit this? They sold us a bag of crap and said it was gold and then lie about it. I love Apple, but come on. I think I’m going to keep moving this up the ladder despite the fact that I’m already paying for a repair. The T and B keys were really rough. I have a T in every single password that I use for everything!! So you need to hit it 4 times and maybe it works. So irritating especially if you’re a person lucky enough to type without looking. Plus every email I wrote last week I was just banging on keys and it was infuriating. I must say the whole keyboard started working nicely except the “bad” ones when the young lady did what she did in back.

So I’ll pay up now and see what can be done.
[doublepost=1520979687][/doublepost]The previous poster mentioned the piece of metal under there. If I pry up the key and just press that down, press on the bubble of metal, it works flawless. Put the key back in and it does not. This goes to the butterfly mechanism as far as I’m concerned.

Another thing AppleCare on the phone told me to remove the keys to see if something was under it and it would not void the warranty. He even told me how. In doing so I ‘broke the post’ on 2 of them. How is this my problem??? I gently did what he said.

I used to pry off a key and clean up a ‘scissor’ part and put the thing back together and perfection. Not with these.

 

[Sebastian79]

I left feeling that Apple was pretty shady for telling their employees to lie about their laptops to make a sale.

Do you think they can do that legally?
Btw, I had the very same experience with customer service.

 

[MichaelDT]

I honestly don’t know. I just recall Apple saying at the keynote that the new 2nd gen butterfly keyboard is now in the 2017 MacBook. And as you say, that leads one to think heat might just be a factor.

That, or not that many people have the issue and MacRumors is an echo chamber for a very small minority of MacBook Pro users that do have the problem... All I know is on the sample size at my institution and my family we haven’t had one fail and some people have had 2016’s since launch.

 

[groove-agent]

We have no idea what the actual numbers are. Apple won’t disclose them. That doesn’t mean a problem doesn’t exist. However FWIW, as a rough idea from what others have said I suspect the failure rate is 33% over a 3 year term. It’s good that your sample hasn’t had issues but I’ve heard similar cases where they have in fact had issues.

MR could exaggerate the existing problems, or it could understate it. I'm sure there are a lot of users who have problems with their keyboards who *don't* report it on MR. Only Apple really knows, and they just released a patent for a crumb/debris resistant keyboard so that's the most you're going to get from Apple as an acknowledgement of the problem for now.

All in all after being on MR for this long, I’d say this issue is reported enough that it’s wise to avoid buying one.

That, or not that many people have the issue and MacRumors is an echo chamber for a very small minority of MacBook Pro users that do have the problem... All I know is on the sample size at my institution and my family we haven’t had one fail and some people have had 2016’s since launch.

 

[Brian Y]

TBH given the age of it I'd have pushed for it to be done free of charge.

One benefit of living in the UK - US consumer law seems pretty much non-existent

Still not sure why there's different price quotes on top case/keyboard replacements. On my 15" fixed under warranty I get:
FLAT RATE 2 REPAIR $695 + $100 Labor Charge.

another time it's:
Flat Rate 1 Repair $310 + $100 Labor Charge.

They have a degree of flexibility.

A top case should be Flat Rate 2. If you damage it, it's miles out of warranty etc, they'll charge that.

If you're nice, and they want to help, they can put it under flat rate 1 to reduce the cost (which is supposed to be for minor repairs).

Hell, if they want to be super nice they can do it as a battery replacement, which is $199 .

 

[Mockletoy]

When the 512GB SSD failed out of warranty on my late 2013 rMBP, they quoted me $999 to replace the part itself (which, wow, that's a pricey SSD), but they wrote it up under flat rate for something like $300 + tax, and he went over the machine thoroughly and made notes of every little thing he could find that might possibly need fixing or replacing and said it would "all be included" in the repair.

I baby my machines, so all they actually ended up doing was replacing the SSD, but they would have essentially made the thing like new for a few hundred bucks, which I thought was an excellent deal and great customer service for a machine they no longer had any real financial interest in supporting. It was a great experience.

Another time, years ago, I took in a sickly stray kitten with a terrible respiratory infection, nursed her back to health, and got a "thank you" in the form of her ripping a bunch of keys off my MacBook's keyboard, some of which one of my dogs decided to chew up. I never did find the S key at all ... anyway, I took it to the Apple store expecting a huge repair bill, and the guy pulls out a box of key caps and switches and patiently replaces all the missing bits right there in the store, then gives me back my computer, good as new, with a smile and no charge at all.

That's the kind of thing that builds customer loyalty, and helps make it so that hiccups like this untrustworthy keyboard don't drive me away entirely.

The key is to always, always be unfailingly polite and grateful, because while Apple won't always be that helpful, they sometimes will and sometimes amazing is generally more than you can expect from the likes of Dell or HP.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The key is to always, always be unfailingly polite and grateful

It's getting tough to maintain your composure with something like this keyboard situation where they clearly have reps who have been coached to deny anything is wrong.

That kind of lack of honesty just drives me insane very quickly