What can you do in Final Cut Pro that you can't do in Adobe Premere CS4?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by DoNoHarm, May 10, 2009.

  1. DoNoHarm macrumors 65816

    DoNoHarm

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    #1
    Hello Everyone, I'm getting into video blogging and I've come to the conclusion that I need to move away from imovie. I'm going to be using a camera with avchd encoding. Is there anything I can do in Final Cut Pro that I can't do in Adobe Premere CS4? Other than the price difference, what are the strengths of each?
     
  2. r.j.s Moderator emeritus

    r.j.s

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    #2
    If you are going to be doing just video blogging, I'd recommend FC Express rather than the full blown FC - unless you need Motion or some of the other extras.
     
  3. harddriveowner macrumors member

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    #3
    There are hundreds of plugins for FCP plus with Motion and LiveType you can do so many things with the video. DVD studio Pro makes making a dvd a joke. Does Premiere have all of the plugins?
     
  4. arjen92 macrumors 65816

    arjen92

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    #4
    If your using AVCHD and you don't like waiting, Adobe is sometimes more than 4 times faster encoding AVCHD then FCP. For the rest is mostly the same. Extra filters etc. you can buy (or get) for both. They both are for editing. And as someone said, if you're not going to make animated stuff and such, go for Final cut express. It's proffessional, and makes you cut like a pro. It's just that some pro things aren't there.
     
  5. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #5
    I use FCP and have not used PPro, so but I have looked into this quite a bit. As far as I can tell, PPro has turned into an excellent program with CS3/CS4, and many say it is as stable as FCP, if used on the right computer, with a 64 bit OS, such as Vista or Leopard/Tiger. I have read that you want 8GB of RAM for it to work optimally, but there is some argument about this, and many get by with less.

    The real issue for you, is that you are using AVCHD and this cannot be edited smoothly on your computer in its native format. From what I've read, the program will crash often and freeze, etc., unless you have a four core or greater. FCP allows you to transcode AVCHD into another codec (your choice of AIC or ProRes), which does take more time when initially importing footage into a project, but allows for more real time performance and faster renders along the way. I think both iMovie and FCP allow you to transcode into AIC, but not ProRes, which might work fine for your purposes. PPro does not have it's own codec so most edit AVCHD natively on it.

    In answer to your question, I believe FCP use to be a little better with compositing and color correction than PPro, though I'm not sure this is still the case with CS4. There is probably nothing that FCP can do that the combination of PPro and After Effects cannot.

    Chris
     
  6. ncdasa macrumors member

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    #6
    final cut pro vs. premiere pro : scratch disks

    i guess i have more of a question related to the differences between fcp and ppro then an answer.

    I use fcp for simple editing purposes. I am satisfied with it and dont see a need to change but one thing that annoys the crap out of me is fcps "scratch disks" system. You have to manually change it each time you open or make any changes on a project. i always have to switch between projects and this becomes so annoying and can easily make problems. If you forget to change it once all your work ends up in the wrong place etc etc. It brakes your concentration to have to repeatedly wonder about the sever deficiency in the program designers absence of common sense. :mad:

    I opened ppro once out of curiosity and saw that it is set by default to save each projects work into the same project file that is created by that project when it is made. THIS IS COMMON SENSE and If you want to make a #$%^ing jigsaw puzzle out of your project files and scratch disks like fcp does by default then the thoughtful designers at ppro were kind enough to offer that option also. Anyway, like i said, i havent familiarized myself w/ ppro and ultimately may not, on the whole fcp may still be better (as i have heard) etc etc. I dont know. I did notice that ppro also seemed to have some unnecessary short comings, things that fcp seemed to get right, like fcps navigation, general commands and window designs etc. still seem more reasonable and professinal (of coarse i have more experiance w/ fcp also, but still it seems that is the case)

    Anyway if someone can help me by telling me if there is a way to make the fcp scratch disks system remotely sensible like ppro, please do.

    Also if anyone has experience w/ both programs, please let me know if you feel it is worth becoming familiar w/ ppro.

    thank you
     
  7. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #7
    Do you save your project on your boot drive, and also have a folder set up on your scratch disk called "Final Cut Pro Documents"? When you make this folder on your scratch disk, FCP automatically creates subfolders of Audio Render Files, Autosave Vault, Capture Scratch, Render Files, Thumbnail Cache Files, and Waveform Cache Files. Within each of these are the files for a particular project. You probably already know this, but this is all I know to say. Perhaps a pro will chime in and give you some assistance.

    I read a lot of FCP vs. PPro threads. Best I can tell from the threads, PPro can natively edit more different kinds of files, but FCP has its own codecs. One person will say that FCP gives more RT and another will say that PPro does. Someone who had talked to a lot of PPro and FCP users said they have about the same RT performance, it just depends on what you are doing. Color correction is better in FCP. Audio is better in PPro (not including Soundtrack Pro). PPro integrates very well with AFX (of course). FCP makes up 49% of the pro market, Avid 22% (according to Wik), probably leaving PPro and Vegas to make up the rest, but I'm not sure FCP's rep as a better program is disserved now that you have CS3/CS4. Besides that, the differences seem to come down to your workflow. Do a google search for "Final cut pro vs. Premiere" and "creativecow" and have fun.;)
    -Chris
     
  8. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #8
    Yup, Premier Pro and After Effects have the same type of plugins. Many times companies like FxFactory will make plugins for both apps.

    There's no way to dump all of the project's files into ONE folder without resetting FCP each time to go into edit another project. I fell in love with that with Avid long ago and have sense just gotten used to the way FCP does things.

    It's very convenient since I move from tower to laptop while cutting a piece and don't have to reconnect all my media or re-render sequences once I move from one machine to the other.

    Becoming familiar with them is a benefit, mastering them is not. I've never had a REAL well paying client tell me that they need a PRO in one editing suite... usually just someone that knows how to get a project out and knows the nuances of the app.

    Besides, many people that claim to be "using" FCP or FCS2 or Production Suite don't use half of the apps available or know anything outside what the little tutorial videos that Apple and Adobe show.

    To the OP, get FCE or Avid Express or any other light editor. You have to ask yourself what iMovie isn't giving you that you need for your blog, then see which app provides that. I am more than certain though that FCStudio will be overkill if you aren't using the two main updated apps that had a lot of cutters drooling, and they are Motion 3 and Color.

    If you are never going to touch either of those apps then stick with iMovie or move up to FCE and grab some plugins and 3rd party apps to enhance your editing. The result being saved money.

    p.s. Forgot to mention that one of the benefits for Premier is how it's written for the Mac. PPro is coded as a bunch of 32bit executables, each being able to take 4GB of RAM. While FCP (afaik) can only take 4GB.
     
  9. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #9
    Can you give a little more detail about the difference between how FCP and PPro store project files?
     
  10. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #10
    I don't know how PPro does it, but Avid Express stored the media files in the project folder. When you opened the app it asked you what project you want to open or if you wanted to start a new one. When you started a new one, that became the scratch disk for the media files captured onto the computer.

    Final Cut has folders for video capture, render files, audio render, thumbnail cache, etc. Then inside each of those folders there's usually a folder named after your project where FCP stores the media and render files.

    Someone with more experience in Adobe Premier or the newer version of Avid can fill in the rest.
     
  11. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Thanks. I am not having the problem that ncdasa is having with having to constantly manually reset the scratch disks (or maybe I don't fully understand what he's saying). It seems like I can switch between projects without manually reseting anything. But I would like to be able to use different scratch disks for different projects. On a tutorial I saw it said not to try this with FCP. So I just use one, and things stay pretty well organized.
    -Chris
     
  12. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #12
    If you are cutting on one machine, leaving them where they are is no problem. FCP's method of organizing files gets tricky as soon as you want to take it to another machine.
     
  13. SpitzerCR macrumors regular

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    #13
    so what is the general answer to this question?? lol

    another matter of opinion type thing it seems.
     
  14. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #14
    Thanks.

    I listed some things PPro can do that FCP cannot, but it was based on what I've read elsewhere, and not personal experience. The OP may wish to check out creativecow.com for the extensive threads on this. Due largely to Adobe's vacation from Mac, PPro tends to be used mostly on PC's, from what I've read. So a Mac forum may not necessarily be the best place to start for questions about PPro.

    Here's a link, although it's CS3 vs. FCP 6. I have read that PPro's gotten more stable in CS4, though.
    http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/977306#977446
     
  15. SpitzerCR macrumors regular

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    #15
    You my friend are AWESOME....

    seems to be a "what you prefer for what your doing" type of thing.
     
  16. DaReal_Dionysus macrumors regular

    DaReal_Dionysus

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    #16
    I have used both and I think final cut is the better of the two. Especially when it come to color correction, work flow and professional overall performance. If your doing smaller stuff than FC Express is the way to go. PPro is not a professional grade system by any means. Final cut is used in cinema production. PPro is not.
     
  17. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Could you give some more detail? I knew about the not-so-great color correction in PPro, but not the rest.
     
  18. DaReal_Dionysus macrumors regular

    DaReal_Dionysus

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    #18
    No problem!!

    First the overall fact of the matter is PPro is about the same as Sony Vegas, so in other words it's garbage. It renders like crap. If you want good quality renders the you need to use a third party codec.

    Forget about multi-clip as it sucks for that. It is a memory hog and the full screen preview is a joke. If your going to be a serious editor on PC than you must use Avid. End of story.

    Final Cut is Professional grade it and is used by companies the likes of:

    20th century Fox
    DreamWorks
    New Line Cinema
    and Much More.

    PPro is used by what movie studios? none

    Get the picture?
     
  19. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #19
    This is a very poor comparison of two applications.

    FCP isn't on the same level as Avid Media Composer.

    FCP is right on par with Premier Pro

    Just because movie companies don't use a certain NLE doesn't mean it's crap. FCP wasn't used for many a film.
     
  20. DaReal_Dionysus macrumors regular

    DaReal_Dionysus

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    #20
    "This is a very poor comparison of two applications." Okay lets break it down.

    "FCP isn't on the same level as Avid Media Composer."

    (Your so totally incorrect. I own both and use and train on both everyday. There is no real difference between AMC and FCP any more. There used to be and even Avid stated at NAB a few years ago that they have lost marketing share due to FCP coming of age. Apple has made great strides to make FCP a professional product and PPro has a long way to go. If you state different I want you to post proof to contradict it.)

    "Just because movie companies don't use a certain NLE doesn't mean it's crap. FCP wasn't used for many a film."

    (to that argument neither was avid. Avid & FCP have been used in many films and if you want to talk the best NLE out there then that is smoke by far. It would be the standard if was about 120 grand cheaper but it is very expensive.

    I work for such companies as Universal, Disney and NBC and they all use both, high profile editors such as Walter Murch who was nominated for the Oscar for Cold Mountain for editing using Final Cut Pro. Here is a list of features edited with FCP just a few:

    The Rules of Attraction (2002)
    Full Frontal (2002)
    The Ring (2002)
    Cold Mountain (2003) (Academy Award nominee for Best Editing – Walter Murch)
    Intolerable Cruelty (2003)
    Open Water (film) (2003)
    Napoleon Dynamite (2004)
    The Ladykillers (2004)
    Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (2004)
    Super Size Me (2004)
    Corpse Bride (2005)
    Dreamer: Inspired by a True Story (2005)
    Happy Endings (2005)
    Ellie Parker (2005)
    Jarhead (2005)
    Little Manhattan (2005)
    Me and You and Everyone We Know (2005)
    The Ring Two (2005)
    300 (film) (2006)
    Black Snake Moan (2006)
    Letters from Iwo Jima (2006)
    Happy Feet (2006)
    Zodiac (2007)
    The Simpsons Movie (2007)
    No Country for Old Men (2007) (Academy Award nominee for Best Editing – Roderick Jaynes) (Academy Award winner - Best Picture)
    Reign Over Me (2007)
    Youth Without Youth (2007)
    Balls of Fury (2007)
    "The Tracey Fragments" (2008)
    "Traitor" (2008)
    Burn After Reading (2008)
    The X-Files: I Want to Believe (2008)
    The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (2008)
    Where the Wild Things Are (2009)
    Alien Raiders (2009)

    Lets see if PPro holds to that standard. OOPs quess your wrong
     
  21. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Well, I guess that settles it.:)
    Thanks.
     
  22. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #22
    I never questioned your knowledge of either apps.

    I just said you gave a poor comparison, which you did.

    You say this app was used to edit feature films, so what.

    LIST FEATURES, that's what the OP wanted, a list of FEATURES as in what can the apps do that separate them

    If you use both, and are some big time editor it should be easy for you.

    p.s. Everyone on these rumors is some big time pro editor, photographer, etc, etc, and no one cares.
     
  23. Chris7 macrumors 6502

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    #23
    I've spent plenty of time reading threads comparing/contrasting FCP and PPro, with those who prefer FCP and those who prefer PPro both conceding to one another's points about strengths and shortcomings of each system.

    There are many forums out there that suit people who prefer vague, overgeneralized opinions, and even regress to making personal slights on other members. I appreciate that on this forum, most people provide useful, detailed information. Also, when misinformation is accidentally given, people are respectful when correcting or being corrected.

    As we both know, there is the occasional exception.

    Cheers,
    Chris
     
  24. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

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    #24
    Very true, and to the point. Especially since I know I have a reputation for being an ******* as well.

    Neon does have a good rep so far for giving good information and helping users out.

    These few posts so far are the rare exception. But I am more than certain he/she will come around and just give the reasons why FCP is preferred over the other.

    Personally, I will always be a FCP user, after coming from Avid, then moving to PPro, I settled on FCP because I love the integrations and relatively seamless round-tripping. But PPro's utilization of 32 bit executables and the still industry standard After Effects makes it appealing..... It's a toss up for which app I will fully adopt depending on what Final Cut Studio 3 will be.
     
  25. DaReal_Dionysus macrumors regular

    DaReal_Dionysus

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    #25
    "Especially since I know I have a reputation for being an ******* as well."

    Your not an ******* for giving information in a different light, every one has different ways of doing things. I give people I work for strictly for credibility, nothing more nothing less. Yes i give good info for thats what i would expect in return.

    "Neon does have a good rep so far for giving good information and helping users out."

    I give only the facts and if the user can benefit from that information thats all the better as that what this forum is about.

    "These few posts so far are the rare exception. But I am more than certain he/she will come around and just give the reasons why FCP is preferred over the other."

    Perhaps you misunderstand. My reasoning for the following post was simple. He asked for the opinion of the people to help guide him in a decision as what software is better. Being a person of much experience I answered with what I have experienced in using these softwares. Bottom line is the following:

    Autodesk Smoke: The best NLE on the Market but very expensive

    ------------------------------------

    Avid Media Composer: Is the industry standard for Film

    ------------------------------------

    Apple FCP: Is the standard for video production companies and TV stations alike. But this is mostly because of cost. However FCP is on the rise and even Avid considers it to be their #1 pain in the butt. It is growing in popularity and being used in a many of films today.

    ------------------------------------
    The bottom of the heap:

    Adobe Premiere Pro: Has poor rendering times, Very bad codecs and asset management stinks. Color correction is not good.

    Sony Vegas - sucks

    -------------------------------------
     

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