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It doesn't really matter is French or English is harder to learn as a first or second language. The point is, lots of people immigrate to Quebec, who initially don't know the language and culture. They have a hard time at first, and then - like the majority before them - they learn and become part of their new home. Or they don't move somewhere else. There are large part of Montreal that also speak english, so its a good place to move to. Far easier than immigrating to Quebec City or Trois Rivieres.

Good Luck with the application, eh?
 
Several people have already listed Colin Mochrie, Rush, Bryan Adams and Celine Dion as Canadians. Frankly, that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Canadian-born entertainers and celebrities go.
Here's a small list. Feel free to add:

Actors/comedians:
Ryan Stiles (Colin Mochrie's "Whose Line..." costar)
Michael J. Fox
Jim Carrey

Musicians/bands:
Paul Anka
Barenaked Ladies
Men Without Hats
Skinny Puppy
Bachman-Turner Overdrive

Others:
John Kricfalusi, creator of Ren and Stimpy
Todd McFarlane, creator of Spawn
Steven Cojocaru, television fashionista
... okay, maybe that last one's another one Canada may have to apologize for... :p

All in all, Canada's pretty cool in my opinion, and not just the temperature. :)

You left out the Quebec radio personalities/jokesters who pranked Governor Palin during the US presidential campaign (and the French president, among others, before that).

And David Frum, the fellow who coined the term "Axis of Evil" for President Bush. And whose mother must be rolling in grave, if she knew where her boy was working.... (not necessarily a slam on Pres. Bush - just a reference to his mom's politics)
 
Yeah, I'm coming in late, but late is better than never, yes? :)

I think of Canadians as similar to Americans, but less obese and more tolerant of cold weather. I don't really know much about Canadian history other than the fact that it was settled by both the French and the British, hence the different languages and provinces.

That about sums it up for me too.

The most common stereotypes associated with Canada in the US are Maple Syrup, Maple Leaves, Hockey, "Eh", "Aboot", and Mooses.

Well, I'm from New England, so maple syrup and maple leaves (and maple candy - yum!) are rather commonplace here as well. :)

The most common Canadian stereotypes here are the "eh" and "aboot" pronunciations.
 
Especially when you look at things like
Japan - 'Quarantined'
Half of Europe now belonging to the USSR!
All countries to be demilitarised (except the U.S. naturally)!

... also find it interesting point 16... the introduction of a International Criminal Court. Something which we now have (@ the Hauge in the Netherlands) but America is one of the few countries that doesn't recognise it because its not American controlled! So, America has actually threatened to invade Europe if any U.S. citizen is ever held there.

...anyway the whole thing sounds like G. Bush's wet dream.

The US isn't in the ICC for a variety of actual real reasons which has nothing to do with lack of control. We did sign the initial treaty (even though we voted against it along with Israel, Qatar, China, etc), though we're one of 40 countries that did not ratify or otherwise join after signing it.

And we're not one of the "few", of the 192 member states of the UN, only 108 are members of the ICC. The US is one of 84 countries that are not part of it, including India, China, Russia and most former Soviet states, and most all Arab states. Some of those signed the original treaty but for one reason or another have their objections about joining the final resulting organization.
 
The US isn't in the ICC for a variety of actual real reasons which has nothing to do with lack of control. ... snip ... joining the final resulting organization.

And, true to form, nobody really knows or cares if Canada is part of the ICC. Always invited to the wedding, never gets a chance to dance....

c'est la vie, eh? :)
 
Several people have already listed Colin Mochrie, Rush, Bryan Adams and Celine Dion as Canadians. Frankly, that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Canadian-born entertainers and celebrities go.
Here's a small list. Feel free to add:

Actors/comedians:
Ryan Stiles (Colin Mochrie's "Whose Line..." costar)
Michael J. Fox
Jim Carrey

Musicians/bands:
Paul Anka
Barenaked Ladies
Men Without Hats
Skinny Puppy
Bachman-Turner Overdrive

Others:
John Kricfalusi, creator of Ren and Stimpy
Todd McFarlane, creator of Spawn
Steven Cojocaru, television fashionista
... okay, maybe that last one's another one Canada may have to apologize for... :p

All in all, Canada's pretty cool in my opinion, and not just the temperature. :)

Something I have always wondered...what is it with Canada exporting all these comedians to the US? It was their #1 export for a while there. :)

All those you mentioned plus the late, great John Candy, Mike Meyers, Rick Moranis, Dave Foley and one of my favorites: Phil Hartman. Saturday Night Live was a regular pipeline to Canadian comedians.

I also want to mention Shania Twain. I think she sings or something, but I have always been too busy watching her dance around in her videos to pay attention. :D
 
Why Quebec? You have to speak french there and they can be very stuck up, although some are nice.

I've been taking French classes for years now. Although I wouldn't consider myself fluent in the language, I know enough to meet Quebec's language requirements and to get by in Montreal. If you know French, it is much easier to get into Canada through Quebec.

Good for you! Let me know How it goes!


^Oooo congrats, let's just say you've made it very well known how much you disapprove of the US.

Good luck.

NOTE: I am not turning this into a political thread. I'm just stating what I've seen of his posts

It doesn't really matter is French or English is harder to learn as a first or second language. The point is, lots of people immigrate to Quebec, who initially don't know the language and culture. They have a hard time at first, and then - like the majority before them - they learn and become part of their new home. Or they don't move somewhere else. There are large part of Montreal that also speak english, so its a good place to move to. Far easier than immigrating to Quebec City or Trois Rivieres.

Good Luck with the application, eh?

Thank you. Although I'm pretty certain I will get permanent residency, it's still going to make me pretty nervous.
 
Thank you. Although I'm pretty certain I will get permanent residency, it's still going to make me pretty nervous.

It's a pretty big adjustment, as long as you're ready for it. Hope it goes well for you.

What type of work you going to look for or is it too soon for that?
 
Still too soon for that. The application process takes about 2 years, so it won't even be until ~December 2011 that I will be moving.

In the meantime, I'll be going to grad. school for my masters here in the US. I'll probably look for some sort of teaching job in Montreal when it gets closer to moving time.
 
Yeah, I'm coming in late, but late is better than never, yes? :)



That about sums it up for me too.



Well, I'm from New England, so maple syrup and maple leaves (and maple candy - yum!) are rather commonplace here as well. :)

The most common Canadian stereotypes here are the "eh" and "aboot" pronunciations.

I've never got that whole "aboot" thing. I realize that Canadians Like to use the phrase "Out and about", but I have never heard a Canadian pronouce "About" like "Aboot".


From my experience with Americans, it is pretty safe to say they are pretty ignorent about most other countries except for their own. They like to censor out the Word Canada whenever they can. You listen to an American historian talk about WWI or WWII and there it no mention about the Canadian Army and all they did. Instead they throw us in with the British (not that there is anything wrong with that) because we are part of the British common wealth. You listen to current news with regard to Afghanistan. If they talk about all the battles that have been fought in the last few years, they talk about the British, but if it is something that can be taken as a negitive, like the fact that Canada's forces may take a year or two off from fighting to regroup, then the media has no problem mentioning Canada.

I bet you if you lined up 20 random americans they could not tell you half of the names of Canadian province's, whereas 20 Random Canadian could probably name 50% to 75% of all the names of the US states.
 
... it is pretty safe to say they are pretty ignorent about most other countries except for their own.
Again, I equate that more with stargazing in a city. Not much chance for the detail of the outside world to outshine the local glare. You also don't get lot of news about Halifax in the local Vancouver coverage.
I bet you if you lined up 20 random americans they could not tell you half of the names of Canadian province's, whereas 20 Random Canadian could probably name 50% to 75% of all the names of the US states.
And state capitals too, but that's because we live close enough to the glare to soak it in.
 
Umm...maybe I'm missing something Jim, but I don't see French listed as a difficult language. :confused:

It's not, I'm trying to make the point that people often say that English is a hard language to learn when really it depends on which is your first language and as it turns out there are many other languages that are much harder for most people to learn. English isn't really anything especially difficult.
 
I've never got that whole "aboot" thing. I realize that Canadians Like to use the phrase "Out and about", but I have never heard a Canadian pronouce "About" like "Aboot"
I've never met someone from Canada, but I've seen a few youtube videos made by Canadians, and they pronounced the word more like "aboat". As in "I was on a boat when this happened".
 
I've never got that whole "aboot" thing. I realize that Canadians Like to use the phrase "Out and about", but I have never heard a Canadian pronouce "About" like "Aboot".

Trust me- I heard it several times in Toronto.

And not all of us Americans are ignorant. I don't it's fair to generalize.

EDIT:

I've never met someone from Canada, but I've seen a few youtube videos made by Canadians, and they pronounced the word more like "aboat". As in "I was on a boat when this happened".

You just hit it! It's still not quite it, but it's closer.
 
I think Canadians are exactly like in that one episode of that 70s show where they go to Canada and Fez loses his green card.

Haha I'm just kidding, honestly I don't know any Canadians and have never been there, but from what I've heard its very nice.
 
What do Canadians think about what Americans honestly think of Canadians??

You want the truth??

You can't handle the truth!!!

MMCdaDay.gif
 
That's not true. Sure you can learn the language quickly, but languages are much much more than just words. In fact it would take an American moving to England quite a while to learn the new* english.

I have a friend who is from Mexico who taught himself english from watching American films. He's lived here for two years, and already spoke perfect english upon arriving here, but he still complains about not grasping connotations, innuendoes, implied ideas, etc.

I think you have an overly broad definition of what it means to speak a language. By your definition, most Americans don't speak US English very well, either. (Which they don't, but that's another matter.)

Your Mexican friend issue isn't that he doesn't speak English well, it's that he doesn't have the same cultural point of reference. If you take individuals from varying socioeconomic, cultural and regional circles and put them together, you would have just as many missed connections. People who are in the same social circle tend to speak using an incredible amount of jargon. Much more so than you as an individual might think. There's also an attribution bias. If you don't get something your friend says, you pass it off as not "getting it" or any number of reasonable causes. When your Mexican friend misses the meaning of something, it's automatically because he doesn't understand the language.

I work in diverse, ad-hoc international teams. Depending on the country, a team defaults to either English or French as the internal working language. Usually English. A lot of my colleagues who learned English as a second or third language actually speak more grammatically correct English than the average American. Idiomatically correct in many cases as well. Most of them would miss half the jokes in an episode of 30 Rock. Are these people who can write papers, reports, etc at a much more proficient level than Joe the Plumber NOT fluent English speakers? Bzzzt. (Oh, relating back to the original question, this is why I believe Canadians are more culturally similar to Americans.)

What you're driving at are the differences between fluent and native and idiomatically correct. Fluent implies more-or-less grammatically correct. Native is what it sounds like. Idiomatically correct has more to do with cultural context.

I speak, read and/or write a few of these "difficult" languages with varying degrees of proficiency. What's being missed in the discussion here is that this is the level of difficulty for a monolingual native English speaker. I speak Korean at a native level. As in, if you were a Korean and I called you on the phone, there's no way you could possibly tell that I wasn't actually Korean. Japanese classes in English are much more difficult than Japanese classes in Korean. Same thing with Mandarin. Actually, travelling in China, if you know literary Korean or have a reasonable command of Kanji, it's easier to walk around drawing characters on your hand than actually learn Mandarin.

Years ago, I had to learn Arabic. NONE of it stuck. Then I was forced to learn a little Swahili. Later, I was found myself understanding more bits and pieces of Arabic. It's not strictly the same language group, just a lot of common loan words and more mutually intelligible concepts.

In this sense, I don't believe learning any one language is any more difficult than any other. People just think English is harder simply because it's so widely spoken and as a result, has such a variance. That new Indian doctor or engineer speaks, reads and writes much better English than most everyone else on the team, it's just most guys aren't going to understand the guy for a few weeks.

And no, you don't need years of immersion to develop fluency. There's a million Dutch out there who have never set foot on native English speaking soil who speak excellent, almost idiomatically correct English. I spoke French for six months when I was six years old, then twenty years later, I got dumped in a French speaking country with a few weeks of language school. It took me a few months to develop to the point where I could communicate with my guys exclusively in French without serious miscommunications. Another few to be able conduct meetings with government officials and authorities. And let me tell you, I'm a right lazy bastard and I have no more a talent for learning languages than anyone else.
 
I've been taking French classes for years now. Although I wouldn't consider myself fluent in the language, I know enough to meet Quebec's language requirements and to get by in Montreal. If you know French, it is much easier to get into Canada through Quebec.

You can get by speaking English-only in large parts of Montreal. But many would appreciate your attempts to learn.

Are you studying European French, or French Canadian? You may find (at least natives of France have) that common French spoken in the beer halls and poutine stands of Quebec bear as much resemblance to formally taught French as does Cajun. Welcome to dee swamp.

That is an interesting point aboot Quebec being an easier point of entry.
 
You can get by speaking English-only in large parts of Montreal. But many would appreciate your attempts to learn.

Are you studying European French, or French Canadian? You may find (at least natives of France have) that common French spoken in the beer halls and poutine stands of Quebec bear as much resemblance to formally taught French as does Cajun. Welcome to dee swamp.

That is an interesting point aboot Quebec being an easier point of entry.

I speak an African French and I find Quebecois very difficult to understand simply because all the French I hear on TV is more or less European.

I've worked with a number of Canadians, both Anglo and French, with a wide range of French competency. The heavy Quebecois speakers have to significantly alter their French to be understood, particularly in parts of the world where people have no familiarity with French Canadians.
 
My experience cross-Canada (from PEI to Victoria) is that Canadians sometimes have more in common with the major US city in its longitude than Canadian cities in latitude. (I haven't been in the North, tho.) The biggest shock for me (other than nearly wetting my pants when I first saw curling on TV; having colored money; and getting a Queen), was understanding the Canadian provinces are not the same as states in the federal system of the U.S.

I'm a landed immigrant living in Montreal, did my "French" interview in NYC (easier than any HS French exam. I know enough French to be polite and engaging in conversation. 'Never mastered the writing 'tho. Quebec is a French-dominent culture, so even as a native (arrogant and proud of it) Brooklyn-ite, I have no problem realizing that French will be the language of choice of most people. And then, in what I find is wonderful about living in Montreal, my conversation partners speak to me in broken English. I have these "bi-lingual" encounters every day.

This is, in spite of iJohnHenry's rants, the norm for the 20+ years I have been living here. And yes, that includes my dealings with sovereigntists and bureaucrats.
And, iJohnHenry, dems fightin' words....Duel on the Plains of Abraham, at dawn.:D
 
.... snip... so even as a native (arrogant and proud of it) Brooklyn-ite, I have no problem realizing that French will be the language of choice of most people. ... snip ...

I gotta ask.... what takes a nice boy or girl from Brooklyn and lands them in Montreal? Before moving to Canada, my father called Queens home. Still have family in Queens. And Bayshore. And Manhattan. They each have their own wonderful accents, but they make fun of my wife's and mine when we visit.
 
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