What does Switch 2 mean for gaming on Apple platforms?

[kiranmk2]

So, the Nintendo Switch 2 is here, and it seems to be producing pretty good levels of performance, enabling a lot of ports of PS4 & PS5 era games (including CyberPunk 2077, Hogwarts Legacy, Street Fighter 6) and it's got me thinking what opportunities this brings for gaming on Apple systems.

It seems that the Switch 2 has performance somewhere in the 2-3 Tflop range (between PS4 & PS4 Pro), an old GPU based on the RTX 2050 (with a few RTX 30-series features added) and an 8-core ARM CPU. To me all seems to indicate that more publishers are going to spend more time porting their current games to an ARM architecture and optimise performance for a GPU that is getting on for 7-8 years old. Previously, it appeared that current gen games were either not even considered for the Switch 1 or were outsourced leading to pretty poor versions, both in terms on image quality and performance (Switch 1 Hogwarts Legacy anyone?)

Is there now a better opportunity for Apple to throw some money at more developers to get them to bring their already-ARM optimised ports to MacOS/TvOS/iOS etc? Surely An Apple M3 or M4 (or higher trims of each) should have the GPU grunt to match the performance of the Switch 2? They already have the features in terms of RT support, ML cores for image reconstruction etc. The only area Apple may need to develop is their MetalFX technique to bring it closer to DLSS on the Switch 2. MetalFX was lauded in quality (temporal) mode when it launched, but at the time it was up against FSR2, so it didn't have to do much to impress. If Apple can improve the performance mode (i.e. move it from spacial to a more performant temporal model) so 720p-->1440p reconstruction looks decent (equivalent to DLSS performance mode) all the better.

 

[maflynn]

Apples and Oranges.

The switch is a completely different platform where you play Nintendo games, I don't think Nintendo licenses their games so I don't see Apple being able to play Nintendo games

I believe WWDC is gaming focused this year so we'll likely see apple try to make a bigger push into Macs being a viable alternative to a PC for gaming.

The biggest upturn in gaming isn't the Switch 2, but the popularity of the Steam Deck, I see this as the biggest threat to unseat windows from gaming and in turn could have negative consequences for apple gaming, if it becomes the dominant platform

 

[baconcat_8964]

I think Apple platforms’ raw computational performance is not an issue anymore. But hardware/software design and business model are major hurdles. For example, iPhone/iPad/Apple TV all have non-expandable storage, which is not a good thing for gaming platforms. App Store cannot deliver app bundles larger than 4GB, meaning all assets and data beyond this limit must be fetched from developers’ own servers. Besides the controversy of 30/70 revenue split, developers must pay a $99 annual Apple Developer Program (ADP) membership to keep their games “alive” in the App Store and must constantly follow up with macOS/iOS/tvOS API updates to ensure their games run on the new operating system. If they miss ADP payment, their games will be taken down immediately. If they don’t update with new APIs, games will simply crash, and Apple won’t help them fix it.

 

[russell_314]

Apples and Oranges.

The switch is a completely different platform where you play Nintendo games, I don't think Nintendo licenses their games so I don't see Apple being able to play Nintendo games

I believe WWDC is gaming focused this year so we'll likely see apple try to make a bigger push into Macs being a viable alternative to a PC for gaming.

The biggest upturn in gaming isn't the Switch 2, but the popularity of the Steam Deck, I see this as the biggest threat to unseat windows from gaming and in turn could have negative consequences for apple gaming, if it becomes the dominant platform

Exactly this. The Nintendo switch doesn’t have competition. Steam tried but didn’t do so well.

I think Apple treats gaming like they do Siri. They do a few minor things each year, just enough to mention it when they release the new Apple product. They don’t put any serious effort to make a major change.

 

[maflynn]

I think Apple treats gaming like they do Siri

Supposedly WWDC is going to be focused on amping up the gaming support. I think Apple has been looking for under-utilized sectors, and gaming was the most obvious especially given the success (read money) iOS gaming is.

I'll wait to see what happens next week, but with iOS gaming they control 100% of the apps/games and thus get a 1/3 of each sale. With computer games, most are on Steam/gog/Epic. Even if Apple convinces more publishers to support macOS, they'll not see any benefit - only if they have exclusives on the mac app store.

One might postulate that Windows is showing weakness in the gaming sector, now is the time to strike, but that weakness is being highlighted due to the popularity and performance of the steam deck.

 

[russell_314]

Supposedly WWDC is going to be focused on amping up the gaming support. I think Apple has been looking for under-utilized sectors, and gaming was the most obvious especially given the success (read money) iOS gaming is.

I believe Siri and AI were the focus of last year’s WWDC. We all know how that went.

I'll wait to see what happens next week, but with iOS gaming they control 100% of the apps/games and thus get a 1/3 of each sale.

For phone gaming yes Apple is rocking it. Of course their 1/3 cut is being threatened, so it may not be as profitable. Of course it does help hardware sales so they make money off of that.

With computer games, most are on Steam/gog/Epic. Even if Apple convinces more publishers to support macOS, they'll not see any benefit - only if they have exclusives on the mac app store.

Exclusives would be awesome, but I think even compatibility with major popular games would be a big thing. Apple needs to make it easy as possible for developers to convert their Windows game into a Mac game. Supposedly they did that already, but I don’t see a bunch of big titles moving over. Of course, perhaps Microsoft is putting their thumb on developers.

One might postulate that Windows is showing weakness in the gaming sector, now is the time to strike, but that weakness is being highlighted due to the popularity and performance of the steam deck.

I don’t think the steam deck is a threat to PC gaming just yet. It’s a cool gadget, but I don’t think many people are going to use it as a replacement for a PC.

I don’t think Apple can attract a super nerdy gaming crowd. The ones with a 90 series Nvidia GPU in a liquid cooled PC lit up like a rainbow. What Apple needs to go after is the mainstream person. This is someone that probably plays a little bit of Xbox gaming and might play for a few hours a week.

 

[maflynn]

I don’t think the steam deck is a threat to PC gaming just yet. It’s a cool gadget, but I don’t think many people are going to use it as a replacement for a PC.

I think its potential is there, just look at how expensive gaming PCs are, look at the cost of GPUs, I mean a 5090s are being sold new at microcenter for over 3,000 dollars. I think for many people a 500 dollar hand held that can play all of your games, is going to be that much more tempting.

As for Apple, I agree with your points

 

[diamond.g]

So, the Nintendo Switch 2 is here, and it seems to be producing pretty good levels of performance, enabling a lot of ports of PS4 & PS5 era games (including CyberPunk 2077, Hogwarts Legacy, Street Fighter 6) and it's got me thinking what opportunities this brings for gaming on Apple systems.

It seems that the Switch 2 has performance somewhere in the 2-3 Tflop range (between PS4 & PS4 Pro), an old GPU based on the RTX 2050 (with a few RTX 30-series features added) and an 8-core ARM CPU. To me all seems to indicate that more publishers are going to spend more time porting their current games to an ARM architecture and optimise performance for a GPU that is getting on for 7-8 years old. Previously, it appeared that current gen games were either not even considered for the Switch 1 or were outsourced leading to pretty poor versions, both in terms on image quality and performance (Switch 1 Hogwarts Legacy anyone?)

Is there now a better opportunity for Apple to throw some money at more developers to get them to bring their already-ARM optimised ports to MacOS/TvOS/iOS etc? Surely An Apple M3 or M4 (or higher trims of each) should have the GPU grunt to match the performance of the Switch 2? They already have the features in terms of RT support, ML cores for image reconstruction etc. The only area Apple may need to develop is their MetalFX technique to bring it closer to DLSS on the Switch 2. MetalFX was lauded in quality (temporal) mode when it launched, but at the time it was up against FSR2, so it didn't have to do much to impress. If Apple can improve the performance mode (i.e. move it from spacial to a more performant temporal model) so 720p-->1440p reconstruction looks decent (equivalent to DLSS performance mode) all the better.

There aren't any Tegra SoC's that use Turing (20 series). The Switch 2 is just a cut down Orin (Ampere based Tegra).

 

[Kimbie]

I would like to see more gaming options on the Mac, as I am looking at a mac as my next upgrade the main game I play is World of Warcraft and that already is native on mac silicon, so thats fine, but its my other games.

I know they have the metal layer, but if they could work with Valve to get Proton running on Macs which I am sure is not an impossible task albeit not a cheap one, while they would not get revenue from steam games, if Steam games worked fully much like they do on the Steam Deck that could convince people to buy more macs, as now makes an attractive family computer option.

 

[sw1tcher]

The switch is a completely different platform where you play Nintendo games, I don't think Nintendo licenses their games so I don't see Apple being able to play Nintendo games

There are a few Nintendo games on Apple's App Store

‎Play Nintendo’s Greatest Hits : App Store Story

‎Learn about collection Play Nintendo’s Greatest Hits featuring Super Mario Run, Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp C, Fire Emblem Heroes, and many more on App Store. Enjoy these apps on your iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch.

apps.apple.com

Mad about Mario? All about Animal Crossing? Play some of Nintendo’s most beloved games on your iPhone and iPad, thanks to several outstanding App Store offerings.

‎Nintendo Co., Ltd. Apps on the App Store

‎Download apps by Nintendo Co., Ltd., including Yarn Yoshi & Poochy Stickers, Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 8-bit Super Mario Stickers, and many more.

apps.apple.com

And there are Nintendo game emulators

Nintendo 3DS Emulator for iPhone Released in App Store With Caveats

Folium has become the first Nintendo 3DS emulator for the iPhone available in the App Store, although there are some caveats to be aware of. ...

www.macrumors.com

Game Boy Emulator 'Delta' for iPhone Updates App Icon After Adobe 'Threatened Legal Action'

The developers behind the popular Game Boy emulator Delta for the iPhone said they updated the app's icon today to avoid potential legal action...

www.macrumors.com

‎Delta - Game Emulator

‎Delta is an all-in-one emulator for iOS and iPadOS. Delta builds upon the strengths of its predecessor, GBA4iOS, while expanding to include support for more game systems such as NES, SNES, N64, and DS. FEATURES Supported Game Systems • Nintendo Entertainment System • Super Nintendo...

apps.apple.com

‎eNES: NES Emulator Retro Emu

‎Experience the nostalgia of classic NES gaming with eNES, the lightweight retro emulator for iOS. Weighing less than 5MB, eNES packs a punch with its optimized performance and feature-rich interface. Key Features: -Automatic saving: Never lose your progress with automatic saving. -Auto-load...

apps.apple.com

 

[klasma]

There are a few Nintendo games on Apple's App Store

Yeah, but you won’t get the newest Zelda or Mario Kart on an Apple device, that simply won’t happen.

The best that Apple could to is provide a Switch to Apple porting kit for developers, offer compelling game controllers, Nintendo-like features like GameShare, and possibly an iPhone/iPad docking station to easily switch between mobile device and TV/monitor.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

If Apple wanted to shock the genre they would team up with Valve and help progress SteamOS from a hardware standpoint. SteamOS already doesn’t allow kernel level permissions so Apple kind of fits in with the unix/linux software vibe. Additionally, console exclusives are dying (Microsoft knows this) and subscriptions to play a multiplayer game is grossly absurd so Apple merging with the cool kids on the block would bring big kudos.

Imagine SteamOS running on ATV or at a minimum using AirPlay from your Mac to an ATV.

 

[TechnoMonk]

nothing. Apple isn’t in gaming business like Nintendo. No one serious about Nintendo gaming is going to buy iPhone.

 

[Naraxus]

nothing. Apple isn’t in gaming business like Nintendo. No one serious about Nintendo gaming is going to buy iPhone.

Really? So I guess I don't own an iPhone since I own a Switch, Switch 2, N64, Wii, SNES, S-Famicom, Satellaview......

 

[Naraxus]

I don’t think Apple can attract a super nerdy gaming crowd

It's not even a nerdy gaming crowd that's the issue - it's Apple itself. What I mean is that the vast majority of gamers out there want little to nothing to do Apple and avoid anything from Cupertino like the plague

 

[uacd]

To me all seems to indicate that more publishers are going to spend more time porting their current games to an ARM architecture and optimise performance for a GPU that is getting on for 7-8 years old.

I just hope second Switch is going to have some more games than the first one. For example it is a shame there are zero adequate modern racing games for the platform, the old Hot Pursuit doesn’t count.

Switch 1 Hogwarts Legacy anyone?

Yeah, it is horrible but at least it is something and so Switch users are able to play the game! I tried it and well, in 720p mode and few enhancements in the menu it is very playable and fun, even on my 8K LG TV from a distance of 3 meters. Also it somehow doesn’t lag if you bring down the difficulty from default to minimum and also some menu enhancements (I forgot which ones I tuned tho, the Switch isn’t mine so cannot clarify😃).

If one wants to play Unbound for example then the playstation or xbox are needed.

Is there now a better opportunity for Apple to throw some money at more developers to get them to bring their already-ARM optimised ports to MacOS/TvOS/iOS etc? Surely An Apple M3 or M4 (or higher trims of each) should have the GPU grunt to match the performance of the Switch 2?

It is not really Apple who should be “throwing money”. They are providing all the necessary tools for devs to strive and code, they just need to start working. Back in the 90s and 2000s people have coded masterpieces for Windows and no one ever questioned the issues that were in the doing. Nowadays it is all about money and market and developers likely don’t see Apple as a gaming platform, and they are foolish for doing so – it opens opportunities for new indie devs who will make even better games for the platform, at least it happened with Apple TV which has many more-or-less fun exclusives and it really shines in comparison to cringe Netflix series.

Even my M1 matches the performance of Switch, there are emulators in the wild to play some games on Mac. I didn’t try them but people report good results, tho HL is unplayable and has too many gfx glitches. I think M2 is the match and M3/M4 are far, far more superior than Switch can ever get, especially with more RAM.

The switch is a completely different platform where you play Nintendo games, I don't think Nintendo licenses their games so I don't see Apple being able to play Nintendo games

I think @kiranmk2 meant games from other developers, not the exclusives. Nintendo would probably never allow running their games on iPhone since it will cannibalize sales of Switch, even if they do it as a subscription service.

Also I guess it is because Nintendo is catering to Japanese domestic market, and well… it is kinda different from European and American markets
People in Japan love everything “you can feel, hear and touch”, skeuomorphic, “clicky clacky” and simple things. For example film cameras, they have seen a resurgence in Japan. And this is btw why Switch is very popular there, over 35m units sold, it is highly unlikely that people there would switch from their cozy Mario, Zelda or Animal Crossing gaming experiences on Switch to playing them on an iPhone, because while touchscreen is convenient, buttons still feel more realistic and give response

 

[jeanlain]

I believe WWDC is gaming focused this year

What makes you think that?

 

[maflynn]

What makes you think that?

Google.
Lots of links about potential of gaming info for wwdc

 

[throAU]

It has literally no bearing on Apple platforms.

It may be an ARM SOC, but it is custom NVIDIA chip with Ampere architecture.

I have one (last 24 hr). Its basically a switch on steroids at this point. I'm liking it as basically the console the nintendo switch (which i have an OG model and a Lite) should have been to play switch titles at an acceptable frame rate.... breath of the wild is finally playable at a locked 60 fps, rather than 30, 25 or 15 or whatever it drops to at various points on the original model.

 

[throAU]

nothing. Apple isn’t in gaming business like Nintendo. No one serious about Nintendo gaming is going to buy iPhone.

Plenty of people into nintendo gaming will buy an iphone! Because they're two totally different use cases!

 

[Ethosik]

I just gave up and went back to PC for my gaming. I am not happy with consoles and Mac performance. PC performance is not much better forcing DLSS/others with literally $5,000 systems but its better than the alternatives. I despise Windows but I treat it like a console.

 

[maflynn]

I just gave up and went back to PC for my gaming. I am not happy with consoles

This is the main reason why I haven't bought a steam deck. I'd much prefer playing on my 34" ultra wide monitor with a keyboard and mouse vs. 7.4 screen with controller sticks/buttons.

As for the Switch, I've not really been a nintendo games fan. Not knocking the games, they just never really grabbed me. If my wife bought me a switch 2 or a steam deck for fathers day, I'd absolutely love it, but I'll probably not buy one myself.

 

[klasma]

People in Japan love everything “you can feel, hear and touch”, skeuomorphic, “clicky clacky” and simple things. […] while touchscreen is convenient, buttons still feel more realistic and give response

And that’s not just people in Japan, IMO. People in general appreciate that.

 

[russell_314]

It's not even a nerdy gaming crowd that's the issue - it's Apple itself. What I mean is that the vast majority of gamers out there want little to nothing to do Apple and avoid anything from Cupertino like the plague

I think it depends on your definition of “gamers”. I think you’re describing the super nerdy PC gamer crowd and I don’t think that is even the vast majority of them. The average person that plays a couple hours a week gaming on a console, mid grade PC or their phone doesn’t have strong feelings about Apple. The eww it’s Apple crowd is just some PC gamers trying to be cool posting on Reddit about hating on something.

 

[Ethosik]

This is the main reason why I haven't bought a steam deck. I'd much prefer playing on my 34" ultra wide monitor with a keyboard and mouse vs. 7.4 screen with controller sticks/buttons.

As for the Switch, I've not really been a nintendo games fan. Not knocking the games, they just never really grabbed me. If my wife bought me a switch 2 or a steam deck for fathers day, I'd absolutely love it, but I'll probably not buy one myself.

I did get a Switch 2, but only because Nintendo won't release their games on PC.

And yeah, I don't understand all the hype on handhelds and even gaming on iPhones. I have good vision and I still find all the screens WAY TOO SMALL for any gaming. I prefer my 27" display while I game thank you!

I never used the Switch 1 in handheld mode other than setting it up. Same will go for Switch 2.