What file type does client need for logo?

Discussion in 'Design and Graphics' started by bungiefan89, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. bungiefan89 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    #1
    I designed a new logo for a client's business in Adobe Illustrator, but they don't know a .jpg from a .svg ... and as a result, they don't know what kind of file type they want from me.

    I know they need a vector-based file, but I don't think they know what to do with such a thing. I don't think they have the software to open an .svg file in anything other than a web browser, and I don't know if an .eps file will allow them to adjust the colors of this monochrome logo as I intended for them to be able to do.

    Yes, I'm well aware that a "you're in way over your head" comment might be applicable for a situation where neither the client nor the designer have a solid idea of what file type a logo should be, but if someone could offer some advice to people working on a project a pinch outside their area of expertise, I'd appreciate it! :)
     
  2. IHelpId10t5 macrumors 6502

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    Nov 28, 2014
    #2
    As a web developer I have been on the receiving end of this many times. You are right that the client typically doesn't understand the difference between file types. I can tell you that if you don't give them the vector formats now (even if they just ask for raster formats) then they will end up contacting you in a few years when they next hire a web designer or graphics person for another project.

    Therefore, I would highly recommend putting together a "package" for them that includes .ai, .svg, .eps vector formats and also several sizes of .png files. Just name each file appropriately to include the size (e.g. yourLogo-100x100.png, yourLogo-200x200.png, yourLogo.svg). You can benefit from delivering a value added product like this by advertising or including in your proposal that they will receive all of these formats. Make it clear "why" it's important to receive these formats and that other designers may charge extra for these and you will benefit in the long run -- the'll come back to you for future business.
     
  3. firedept macrumors 603

    firedept

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    #3
    Your customer needs a vector based file like an eps, ai or svg. This will allow the logo to be changed to any size or colour that is required. But they would also require a vector based program like Illustrator to make any changes. This is usually where a designer will come in. Unless your client has some knowledge of what they are doing with vectors, they will most likely struggle. Usually the client will take or send the vector to whoever requires it and that company or person will have the software to modify it.

    The perception by clients that they can modify these files simply in any free or cheap program is wrong and you need to explain to them why you are sending those file types. Vectors are scalable. Even if you have a large jpg of your logo, it’s necessary to have a vector that can be scaled to any size so you have no loss to the logo quality.

    I have been in the printing industry for 40+ years and have seen these request by clients. Usually a little info on what is required and why clears this up for a client.
     
  4. theluggage macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    #4
    Silly wabbit... they want a .doc, of course. :)

    I'd agree with the other responses - give them a selection of .PNGs at useful sizes along with .svgs but maybe also include a .pdf (which most people can work out how to open and most vector or bitmap packages can open & render) along with the original Illustrator file in case they want to get someone else to modify it (unless you want to charge extra for that).

    If you've used any unusual fonts, include pdf/eps versions with the fonts embedded, if allowed, otherwise include versions with the text converted to curves.

    Pet peeve (apologies if I'm preaching): the "p" in JPEG stands for "photographic". If it isn't a photo don't JPEG it or I will personally come around your house, stick little fuzzy felt triangles on every sloping surface and draw a nasty basket-weave pattern over every bit of plain wallpaper I can find.
     
  5. dwig macrumors 6502

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    Jan 4, 2015
    Location:
    Key West FL
    #5
    ... so do not send a bitmap file of any type, including the PNG fiiles mentioned.

    Create the logo as a pure vector file in Adobe Illustrator; NO TEXT, NO BITMAPS, NO BITMAPS LIVE EFFECTS. If you use text or effects, you need to flatten them (convert text to outlines, ...) and then view the file in outline mode to see that everything is visible. Once you have a pure vector file save as AI for your own archives.

    You can then create a suite of files for the client. Create an EPS (saved from AI with the option to retain AI editing ability), an AI file, and a PDF to send to the client. You might also create an appropriately sized TIFF (a bitmap format) as part of the suite sent to the client, though if they don't have their own graphics person this may be of now value to them. You may want to create several versions of the logo (color RGB, color CMYK, B&W greyscape, B&W only) and send each version as both EPS, AI and PDF.
     
  6. Possumgal macrumors member

    Possumgal

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    Aug 13, 2015
    Location:
    N. Central Arkansas
    #6
    I agree with Dwig. A business logo needs to be in vector format, regardless of whether they also just want a JPEG or whatever for their website now. Later on they may want to print brochures, tee shirts, even billboards, and you can't do that with raster-based art. I've dealt with many businesses that want their logo printed on something but all they had from the designer was a low-res raster file for the web, which looked comically bad printed on paper or anything else. Logos need to be provided with an eye to future needs as well as current.
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Mar 22, 2010
    #7
    Another vote for vector.

    If you deliver a PDF, it can be opened in Photoshop as a bitmap or in Illustrator as a vector.
     
  8. dwig macrumors 6502

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    Key West FL
    #8
    ... if, and only if, the original graphic used to create the PDF was pure vector.

    PDF is not a "vector" format. It is a metafile that can include vector, text, embedded fonts, and/or bitmap data. Also, Ps has limited support for reading PDFs. Ps prefers the PDF be created in Ai and saved with the option to retain Ai editing ability. When preparing PDFs for the client you should test whether Ps can open them and properly rasterize them.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Mar 22, 2010
    #9
    Which I thought was clear from the first line of my post. But your clarification is appreciated.

    Create a vector logo. Save as PDF. Tell client to give PDF to any vendor they use. See client look confused.

    (But clients are normally confused anyway)
     
  10. bungiefan89 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    #10
    Thanks everyone for all your feedback!

    In the end, I decided the best thing to do was sending the client both versions of the logo as .ai, .pdf, .svg, and .eps file formats. They might not have the software to properly implement those file formats, but that's their problem, not mine. I look at it like this: I'm sending them food in a can because the can preserves the quality, whether or not they have a can opener is something they need to figure out for themselves because sending them raw food just wouldn't be right.

    ... and of course, I'll be there for them to contact if they have any trouble using the files. xD

    I'll get a better grasp of the differences between these file formats one of these days, but for now, I want to thank everyone for their help on this matter! :)
     
  11. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    Jan 28, 2009
    #11
    a vectored pdf is what I wan one sized correctly so when I import it it is the right size. then I can cut it on my cnc router.
     
  12. bent christian, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016

    bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    #12
    An EPS file with fonts outlined or embedded is all that is necessary here. EPS is a cross-platform vector file format that can be placed or opened in a variety of imaging software. Any imaging software worth using in 2015 will be compatible. EPS files can be opened in Illustrator and they can be made into a PDF, so those two options are pretty redundant. EPS files can be opened (rasterizing them) and saved as a "flat image" like JPEG. The preview function in OSX Finder can view them, other programs in Windows can as well. A boat load of free viewers exist for either platform. With the masks it tends to apply, PDFs can sometimes do funny/bad things to a file and make editing and color adjustment difficult. I do not like working with them for logos.

    Ai should be considered for editing purposes only, or if you know you and your client will be working in an Adobe environment completely. Adobe allows native file formats to be used in most of their applicable applications, so I use them often as final files in my work, but you may run into trouble getting Ai and PSDs open if you need to venture outside for some reason.

    EPS and PDF can be seen as progressively more advanced versions of postscript evolution: postscript > EPS > PDF.

    Sometimes basic is more useful, though.

    For print application, the formats you should be using (in order of usefulness for prepress) are EPS, PDF, TIFF, and lastly, JPEG. Keep in mind that JPEG does not support spot colors and we can't easily create color separations for press, so last resort only. JPEG is also limited to 8-bit color. Don't use PNG for professional printing. There is no reason to.

    For the Web, there shouldn't be much use for anything outside of JPEG (benefit: good compression/file size), PNG (benefit: lossless compression, but higher file size than JPEG, best for line art and when transparency is necessary), and as a last resort, GIF.

    I work in print. I have never had a occasion to use an SVG. Ever. They aren't really used for the Web often, if at all, and much better options exist for use in print. There might be some proprietary use for SVG, but, mostly, you should take that format out of consideration unless someone says they have a specific use for it.
     
  13. dwig macrumors 6502

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    Key West FL
    #13
    Caution here: generally, embedded fonts can only be used by a PostScript RIP. When an EPS with embedded fonts is opened in an editing app they can't be used and the app must rely on matching the font used with one installed on the system, substituting a default when there is no exact match. You shouldn't distribute and EPS or PDF with embedded fonts if there is any change that that file will be used as a source for further editing on a different system.

    Again, caution!! It is a common misconception that PNG is always saved with lossless compression. PNG is a very very flexible format. It supports uncompressed, lossless compression, and lossy compression along with an extremely broad range of bit depths. DO NOT ASSUME that saving as PNG will automagically save using lossless compression. Check the behavior of the app used to generate the PNG and all of its save options to be certain that you build a PNG the way you want.
     
  14. bent christian, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016

    bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    Nov 5, 2015
    #14
    Does anyone use a RIP that isn't postscript anymore? I suppose it is possible. Maybe somewhere...but it's a pretty safe bet that any shop worth using will have postscript compatibility.

    It should be said it is always a good idea for a designer to have communication with the shop directly. Files for output should be determined by the production house, not by assumed guidelines. Workflows can vary dramatically from shop to shop.

    EPS is the best final file type for a logo. It has the widest support and offers the greatest ease of editing. If fonts are a potential problem, use the package feature available in Illustrator or InDesign and include this folder. You should be packaging at the end for yourself, anyway. It is a best practice.

    This comes down to being a good and knowledgeable designer. PNG has the advantage of lossless compression (my words). Lossless compression in 2015 means larger file sizes (than JPEG).
     

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