When did I ever cry about anything? I simply posted a thread with a list of problems I have with apples current policy. I would love to continue to feed your trollish ways but I feel that my time could be better spent.
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What Happened? (Apple has forgotten its roots)
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When did I ever cry about anything? I simply posted a thread with a list of problems I have with apples current policy. I would love to continue to feed your trollish ways but I feel that my time could be better spent.
lemonade-maker
macrumors 6502
With all the problems you mention (cry about), better use of your time is a decent idea.
http://www.flayme.com/troll/
Techhie
macrumors 65816
FYI, it helps if you don't sound like a condescending ******* to the OP when you reply. Not to be rude, but he has some genuine arguments, and so does everyone else in this thread.
UltraNEO*
macrumors 601
Yeah? What about folks who spend $100K on a car only to have the model replace a year later? Isn't that kinda the same thing? Technology my friend, doesn't stop developing when you buy the latest meanest beast, something better will always appear sooner or later - just life!! I think so long as your machine continue to do it's job for the next five years, be happy and enjoy it!!
Apple doesn't abandon machines as such, they keep a small inventory of parts for about five years; usually by then, most users would have upgrade to something cooler (so to speak).
I wonder whether some of the issues with value and performance mentioned here relate to Intel's current spell of dominance in the CPU market. It seems that since AMD have been struggling to keep up, Intel has taken advantage and hiked it's prices.
Perhaps what we need to invigorate the workstation market is some good old competition again. I wonder if a resurgence by AMD would have any sideways knock on effect with the cost of Mac Pro's....The thinking being that (1) Intel would have to be more competitive with their pricing and (2) Apple might start looking over their shoulder a bit more at cheaper, more powerful or much better value Windows based systems becoming available.
Then there's the Hackintosh community. How would Apple react to Hackintoshes completely outperforming their best Mac model (presumably an iMac if there were no Mac Pros about).
Gamers and 3D graphics artists, as well as Pro Video people will always keep pushing for more powerful workstations. With all the work Apple has done to lure Windows users over, it would seem like a backward step to decide that power users who need more than an iMac aren't worth bothering with anymore.
A buddy of mine who used to be a real mac fanatic but abandoned them for Linux a few years ago said "Apple used to be the rebel alliance but they're not anymore". Having said that, Apple also used to be absolutely pants at marketing and in denial about the instability of their operating system which more often than not used to take the whole system down when an application crashed (I'm talking system 9 and before).
Perhaps what we need to invigorate the workstation market is some good old competition again. I wonder if a resurgence by AMD would have any sideways knock on effect with the cost of Mac Pro's....The thinking being that (1) Intel would have to be more competitive with their pricing and (2) Apple might start looking over their shoulder a bit more at cheaper, more powerful or much better value Windows based systems becoming available.
Then there's the Hackintosh community. How would Apple react to Hackintoshes completely outperforming their best Mac model (presumably an iMac if there were no Mac Pros about).
Gamers and 3D graphics artists, as well as Pro Video people will always keep pushing for more powerful workstations. With all the work Apple has done to lure Windows users over, it would seem like a backward step to decide that power users who need more than an iMac aren't worth bothering with anymore.
A buddy of mine who used to be a real mac fanatic but abandoned them for Linux a few years ago said "Apple used to be the rebel alliance but they're not anymore". Having said that, Apple also used to be absolutely pants at marketing and in denial about the instability of their operating system which more often than not used to take the whole system down when an application crashed (I'm talking system 9 and before).
TonyK
macrumors 65816
How much memory do you have in your system? What about scratch discs for your rendering?
It's not all about hardware though. 😉 EFI is technically software stored on a Flash ROM. It's easy enough to upgrade (the entire point of placing it on such a chip in the first place), but Apple won't upgrade it for a 3y/o machine.
It's what's intentional or not. In the case of the '06 - '07 owners, the lack of firmware support is intentional. Pricing of the '09's is intentional, and the lack of DIMM slots is arguable at best. 😛
Software... It's usually a mess, no matter who wrote it. 😱 😀 😛
TonyK
macrumors 65816
I am sure to be stepping into a big mess, but what the heck...
My Problems with Apple INC. (mostly in regards to their Mac Pro and Mac Book Pro Line)
My system is using the original ATI Radeon HD 2600. Well not original. The original passed-on under warranty and they replaced it. Same model card though. Then again, I do digital photography, not video so graphics speed is not important to me.
Correct me, but iMovie is not really up-to-speed for commercial, professional editing. That is like using iPhoto for a professional photographer. Sure it is free and comes with the Mac, but I would not want to do weddings, commercial gigs or serious fine art with iPhoto. The one piece of software I see in the list of professional caliber is Final Cut.
Ya, I saw that and opted to not upgrade the graphics card and so far have resisted SL. If it is not broke, and the OS for me is not, don't try to fix it. In your situation, it is now broke, we need to fix it. This can be painful though.
Yup, that gets annoying until one realizes they are closing security holes. We may not use X from the original install, but it is still there and is a security risk if left unpatched. Thus Apple is doing what they can to maintain a safe computing environment. And unlike the hype, all computers can be compromised. Its just that MS has a bigger target still on their backs. 😀
Now to your problems.
Have you repaired your permissions?
Deleted your caches?
Backed up your data and do a fresh install on a newly formatted drive, and then only install/restore what you really needed?
Each of this is in order of severity. Permissions and cache should be at the to of the list of things to do. Re-installing the OS X is more of a pain and is a last resort measure.
If you have, please report back.
Take care,
My Problems with Apple INC. (mostly in regards to their Mac Pro and Mac Book Pro Line)
My system is using the original ATI Radeon HD 2600. Well not original. The original passed-on under warranty and they replaced it. Same model card though. Then again, I do digital photography, not video so graphics speed is not important to me.
Correct me, but iMovie is not really up-to-speed for commercial, professional editing. That is like using iPhoto for a professional photographer. Sure it is free and comes with the Mac, but I would not want to do weddings, commercial gigs or serious fine art with iPhoto. The one piece of software I see in the list of professional caliber is Final Cut.
Ya, I saw that and opted to not upgrade the graphics card and so far have resisted SL. If it is not broke, and the OS for me is not, don't try to fix it. In your situation, it is now broke, we need to fix it. This can be painful though.
Yup, that gets annoying until one realizes they are closing security holes. We may not use X from the original install, but it is still there and is a security risk if left unpatched. Thus Apple is doing what they can to maintain a safe computing environment. And unlike the hype, all computers can be compromised. Its just that MS has a bigger target still on their backs. 😀
Now to your problems.
Have you repaired your permissions?
Deleted your caches?
Backed up your data and do a fresh install on a newly formatted drive, and then only install/restore what you really needed?
Each of this is in order of severity. Permissions and cache should be at the to of the list of things to do. Re-installing the OS X is more of a pain and is a last resort measure.
If you have, please report back.
Take care,
It certainly wouldn't hurt.
And it might keep Intel from sitting on their laurels with the performance too once the current roadmap runs out. I can't help but remember the same situation when the P4 debuted...ugh...). It wasn't a good thing, and it's possible history could repeat itself. 😱 🙁
They might watch this and respond with something in the laptop or desktop systems, but I don't see it happening much with the MP's. Completely different market.
Somehow, I don't think this matters to Apple at all. If hackintoshes were such a threat, they'd have made an effort to block it for individual users.
It would seem logical, but if the market gets too small, they won't be able to maintain a presence in it. The costs would get too high, and Apple's clearly admitted they want high margins, not loss leader products. 😱 😛
I have 4 gigs of ram, remember this is a 2008 mac pro, and ram is SO expensive. I have three 1 TB internal drives for scratch, and one external raid 0 for when i edit uncompressed.
and to the guy who said
No, its more like having a 100K car and being told that the air filter or the rims are not compatible and the only way to get compatibility is to buy a new car.
lemonade-maker
macrumors 6502
Also the OP should read this:
http://macfidelity.de/2008/07/09/how-to-tell-mac-os-x-software-update-to-ignore-something/
You can control which products Apple bothers you to update.
I will note, however, that the OP is mistaken if he thinks this is "the new Apple". Apple has pushed software updates in this manner since OS 9, in 1999.
http://macfidelity.de/2008/07/09/how-to-tell-mac-os-x-software-update-to-ignore-something/
You can control which products Apple bothers you to update.
I will note, however, that the OP is mistaken if he thinks this is "the new Apple". Apple has pushed software updates in this manner since OS 9, in 1999.
lemonade-maker
macrumors 6502
reactions
macrumors 6502
dude - get a PC
i feel hurt by this statement
so if we don't join you then we're against you?
don't non fanboys have the right to decide what's good and bad for us?
300D
macrumors 65816
DVI has VGA integrated into it, its a dirt cheap pin-to-pin adapter.
DP to dual link DVI requires conversion electronics in the adapter, thats why it requires a USB port to supply power.
Thats because when your Mac was made, OpenCL didn't exist so compatible hardware didn't exist to support it.
Very common problem, and its the dual link DVI adapter's fault.
Um, no, you don't. If software you don't want pops up in the update list, delete it from the list. I do it all the time with iPhoto and Safari updates.
What and when is "forcing" you to use safari? The last time I opened a safari window was 3 years ago.
Download Firefox and set it as the default browser.
Tesselator
macrumors 601
Mac Pros (the forum you are in now) are not "better than any PC". In fact if you consider the class they're in they're a lot lower than most. This isn't my opinion, this is a qualifiable and quantifiable fact. The 2009 MPs are also massively overpriced for what you get. I'm not trying to sell you on anything but a spade is a spade so let's use correct terms and proper ratings. The OS is subjective tho and I think OS X is far better than anything MicroSloth offers.
- If I were to rate the function and feature set of Apple hardware compared with all hardware in a similar general class (mac pro) on a scale of 1 to 10 the MP would score about a 5 or 6.
- If I were to rate the function and feature set of Apple hardware compared with all hardware in a any class (mac pro vs. "any PC") on a scale of 1 to 10 the MP would score about a 3.
- If I were to rate the function and feature set of Apple hardware compared with all hardware in a similar general class (mac pro) with price performance in mind on a scale of 1 to 10 the MP would score about a 3 for the 2009 and about 7 for the 06 ~ 08 models.
Notice none of these are "better than any PC" and only the 06 ~ 08 Mac rate "good" at anything and that's only at price/performance.
MBP is a whole 'nother discussion but fairly similar. Generally speaking the MBP (all models) is scaled down and overpriced with a great operating system.
Apple has always done this. RAM, HDDs, Cables, manuals, you name it... if it's "extra" Apple charges for it and charges more than anyone else too! This has been true for 20 years straight through.
I never have such issues. The issues I read about here and on the Apple forums over the past 4 years are far less severe and inclusive (wide spread) than what I read about for Windoze users. So again, "began to" is wrong IMHO. It's about the same as it's always been and less than most other PC VARs.
Again, this has been the case for the past 20 years. Nothing has changed and it's been a constant user complaint. Apple never uses mainstream bus types and when they do they have to proprieties it so that almost no off-the-shelf parts work. EFI is a good example for the PCIe stuff. Mouse pointer jerking and jumping has been a problem on all Mac Pro models so far. I had it on the Mac Pro 1,1 and I bet if I search I can find people with that problem back on the 1st PPC machines as well. In fact I bet I can find it back on the 68K macs too. 😉
Again this is the same since the very 1st Macintosh - the little B&W classic. There are more apps and each is more elaborate so the frequency of such systemic prerequisites may have increased but it's been a steady and relational increase. Nothing new here.
I think your usage profile changed in such a way that it's become more obvious to you. But it's actually always been this way.
.
lemonade-maker
macrumors 6502
Pure conjecture. Each of your "facts" can be opposed by opposite "facts" making your statement opinion based.
TennisandMusic
Guest
TonyK
macrumors 65816
I too have an early 2008 MP and it has 12GB of ram. OWC sells ram for a good price. do no hesitate to upgrade your memory. Only have 500GB drives in this system for a total of 1.8TB of storage. Don't do RAID for myself, but do weekly backups. 🙂
Stephen23
macrumors member
Memory is dirt cheap compared to the cost of the computer, even though its starting to edge up right now. The fact that you're running an external RAID, yet haven't seen fit to add more then 4GB of RAM to your system, and chose to upgrade to the GT 120 rather than a better card tells me that you need to rethink how you spend your money on hardware if you want a pro machine.
Furthermore, most of us who have been using Macs, or any computers, for work, understand that jumping into the latest software updates often involves issues. If you're not prepared to figure out those issues, or there doesn't exist a technical fix to allow you to keep using your computer the way you use it under the update, then don't do the update. Period. My printer isn't yet supported by Snow Leopard, for that reason, I'll stick with Leopard until it is. No problem...
Stephen23
macrumors member
This supposes that your car isn't working perfectly well with the rims and air filter you've got. It sounds like yours was, but you wanted to have those shiny new rims that keep spinning even while you're stopped at the traffic light. 🙄
daneoni
macrumors G5
They don't. I knew people at ATI on the ATI Mac driver team. Remember, ATI was shipping Mac GPU's before Apple even included them with machines. In fact, you can download the latest Mac drivers from ATI here, although ATI only manages driver updates for retail cards:
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx
(Note: it looks like they've been co-ordinating with Apple since 10.5, but for 10.4 they still have all their driver downloads up, and they're still definitely writing them in house.)
Apple wouldn't be writing drivers like the 3870 drivers anyway for any reason because Apple doesn't sell any machines with the 3870.
The NVidia drivers, last I checked, were written at Apple. But that could have changed. It looks like NVidia might handle their own drivers too, they seem to manage their own for the GTX 285.
Ok, while agree, Apple has things it needs to work on, things are not as bad as you make it seem, and several points you make are just wrong.
OK, first off the cards have DVI too. You can connect monitors to the dual link DVI port that is on the card. The majority of monitors, including most of Apple's recent monitors, have a DVI connection that you can connect to without an adapter. If you want to use more than one monitor through your graphics card, then yeah, you have to buy an adapter (unless your second monitor is Display Port). Unfortunately this is pure economics. They include connections that are compatible with the majority of monitors today. The majority of people have only 1 monitor, the percentage with more than one is very small. It just doesn't make financial sense to bundle an adapter that would only be used by a small number of people with every card. OK a small number of people may feel disgruntled about it, but at the end of the day it doesn't make sense for them to bundle an adapter - that for the majority of customers would sit unused gathering dust - with every card that they sell because it doesn't make financial sense. They save money by not including it and they sell a few to people who need it - they are a business. They exist to make money.
OK, your software isn't working the way it should. Doesn't mean there is a bug in the program. The majority of people don't have the problems you do so something in your particular setup is causing a set of issues for you. You need to get software support. OK, you may have not had luck with Apple Care getting the issues resolved, but it doesn't mean it can't be solved. Why not take it to a Genius Bar. With no disrespect to Apple Care, there is only so much you can do over the phone. At the end of the day it is easier for Apple to fix the problem if they can see and interact with the issue than from second hand information over the phone.
Yeah, I know this kinda sucks. Many older cards would work fine with it.
Unfortunately the iTunes Store thing is probably more just technology based. The iTunes store is basically xml. If they are using new features on the store that require particular parts of iTunes to be updated in order to run it then unfortunately you have to update to use it. How else is it meant to work. Are you asking them to stop adding features and improving things just because you don't want to update or are you just scared of change? I don't get your point here.
You don't need to see the new version dialogue box every time. Again, just untick the box that says to see the dialogue every time you open the program and it goes away.
Which blow. They are terrible cards.
OK, first off the cards have DVI too. You can connect monitors to the dual link DVI port that is on the card. The majority of monitors, including most of Apple's recent monitors, have a DVI connection that you can connect to without an adapter. If you want to use more than one monitor through your graphics card, then yeah, you have to buy an adapter (unless your second monitor is Display Port). Unfortunately this is pure economics. They include connections that are compatible with the majority of monitors today. The majority of people have only 1 monitor, the percentage with more than one is very small. It just doesn't make financial sense to bundle an adapter that would only be used by a small number of people with every card. OK a small number of people may feel disgruntled about it, but at the end of the day it doesn't make sense for them to bundle an adapter - that for the majority of customers would sit unused gathering dust - with every card that they sell because it doesn't make financial sense. They save money by not including it and they sell a few to people who need it - they are a business. They exist to make money.
OK, your software isn't working the way it should. Doesn't mean there is a bug in the program. The majority of people don't have the problems you do so something in your particular setup is causing a set of issues for you. You need to get software support. OK, you may have not had luck with Apple Care getting the issues resolved, but it doesn't mean it can't be solved. Why not take it to a Genius Bar. With no disrespect to Apple Care, there is only so much you can do over the phone. At the end of the day it is easier for Apple to fix the problem if they can see and interact with the issue than from second hand information over the phone.
Yeah, I know this kinda sucks. Many older cards would work fine with it.
Unfortunately the iTunes Store thing is probably more just technology based. The iTunes store is basically xml. If they are using new features on the store that require particular parts of iTunes to be updated in order to run it then unfortunately you have to update to use it. How else is it meant to work. Are you asking them to stop adding features and improving things just because you don't want to update or are you just scared of change? I don't get your point here.
You don't need to see the new version dialogue box every time. Again, just untick the box that says to see the dialogue every time you open the program and it goes away.
Which blow. They are terrible cards.