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monotious

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
23
3
I can picture a situation, which I don't think would be very unrealistic.

What if someone comes into possession of my iPhone X without my knowledge, and then unlocks it with Face ID using my face all the while I am not aware of anything that happens? This would not happen with Touch ID because normally you would not touch (what you think is) someone else's phone, and even if you happen to touch your phone thinking it belongs to someone else (because the thief fools you into thinking it is not yours), the moment it unlocks, you'd realize it's yours. But with Face ID, the act necessary for unlocking (looking at the iPhone X) can be much less of a conscious act compared to what is necessary for Touch ID (touching the fingerprint sensor of the phone), so I'd think it would be much easier for a thief to unlock a Face ID phone without your knowledge than with a Touch ID phone.

For example, I may inadvertently leave my iPhone X on my desk at work to go to water cooler, a co-worker picks it up, and waves it in front of me. I don't know that she is holding my iPhone X, but I just unlocked my iPhone X for her, unaware.

Or what if a pickpocket pulls my iPhone X from my pocket without my knowledge, then stands next to me and unlocks it using my face when I glance at my iPhone X that the pickpocket is holding, thinking it belongs to the pickpocket?

Did I miss something from the presentation or any press releases or FAQs, or is this a legitimate concern?
 

DNichter

macrumors G3
Apr 27, 2015
9,385
11,183
Philadelphia, PA
These posts need to stop. There are a million what if situations. Yes, any of these things can happen. Someone could put a gun to your head and make you put in a passcode. How is Apple supposed to prevent this? They can't. Is it their responsibility to prevent this? No. Don't buy the phone if you are this worried about it.
 

ricktat

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2013
1,896
1,707
Chopping the finger would work much better.

An unlocked phone would still need the passcode to change the passcode.

So they better act quickly
 

ricktat

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2013
1,896
1,707
What if your wife comes up with a plan to wake you up.... with the phone in your face... she then hits you over your head and knocks you back out.

All just to read your text messages to make sure you aren't cheating.

Mean while..... She wishes you still had touch ID... because she would just place your finger on the home button while you were sleeping and no whack to the head was required.
 

BeeGood

macrumors 68000
Sep 15, 2013
1,859
6,120
Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
What if your wife comes up with a plan to wake you up.... with the phone in your face... she then hits you over your head and knocks you back out.

All just to read your text messages to make sure you aren't cheating.

Mean while..... She wishes you still had touch ID... because she would just place your finger on the home button while you were sleeping and no whack to the head was required.

This actually might be more plausible than the OP’s hypothetical.
 

Dave245

macrumors G3
Sep 15, 2013
9,765
8,008
What if your wife comes up with a plan to wake you up.... with the phone in your face... she then hits you over your head and knocks you back out.

All just to read your text messages to make sure you aren't cheating.

Mean while..... She wishes you still had touch ID... because she would just place your finger on the home button while you were sleeping and no whack to the head was required.

But what if someone kidnaps you, ties you to a chair forces you to unlock your phone and then plays cat videos on a loop :eek:

Sorry I couldn't resist another one, it just highlights how silly these threads are. On a more serious note:

If your girlfriend/wife is wanting to trick you into unlocking your phone so they can go through it, there are serious trust issues somewhere (that's not Apple's fault).

A pickpocket is not going to take your phone out of your pocket and then hold it up against your face before walking off with it.

A police officer cannot gain access to your phone without a valid reason/warrant (at least they can't here in the UK)

It's really getting silly the amount of situations that people are now making up that will likely never happen in the real world.
 
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Dmal99

macrumors 6502
Sep 29, 2012
492
168
What if my new iPhone X is stolen by a magical unicorn who had the power to project an exact 3d copy of my face in real time out of his horn? Will that magical wondrous beast be able to unlock my phone and see all the CIA-level secrets I obviously have on my phone? It is, of course, why I'm so worried about absurd "what if's" that only happen in movies. No one better use my Wayfair account.
[doublepost=1505509379][/doublepost]
A police officer cannot gain access to your phone without a valid reason/warrant (at least they can't here in the UK)

By the way in the USA, fingerprint and face aren't protected by free speech, only passcode is protected by your right not to self-incriminate by speaking. The other two they can get with a warrant, but they can't get a warrant to make you speak your code.
 
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monotious

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
23
3
These posts need to stop. There are a million what if situations. Yes, any of these things can happen. Someone could put a gun to your head and make you put in a passcode. How is Apple supposed to prevent this? They can't. Is it their responsibility to prevent this? No. Don't buy the phone if you are this worried about it.

Well, maybe not highly likely at individual level, and at my own personal level because I certainly do my best not to leave my phone lying around at work and I try not to get pickpocketed (to the extent trying helps), but I would think Apple would care?

Plus, with a gun in your head, the security of your phone would not be the first concern for you, and there is no security system that can protect you in that situation anyway. Besides, in this case, you know your phone has been breached.

I am unlikley to buy iPhone X (I own iPhone 7 Plus and may possibly buy iPhone 8, not necessarily for the security concern but for a host of other reasons). Just thinking about the implication of a new feature of a new product. I thought this wasn't a crime? Plus, future Apple products may dispense with Touch ID entirely, so as an Apple customer, I thought I can legitimately have concerns about their products?

What if someone stole your iPhone 8 and unknown to you chopped of your finger and used it to unlock?

I don't appreciate sarcasm. But let me respond anyway. Yes, that is a shortcoming of Touch ID. I wasn't claiming that Touch ID is superior to Face ID in all respects. If you thought I was, then you are seeing things where there aren't. It is Touch ID's shortcoming, but we are talking about Face ID's shortcoming here.

If this is the kind of stuff that evokes your concern, be grateful. For you live a charmed life.

See above. I may not necessarily personally be terribly concerned, but I'd think Apple should be?

The un-realistic part of your scenario is that the pickpocket (who survives by avoiding drawing attention to themselves) supposedly hangs around long enough to get your attention to focus on the iPhoneX that they just stole from you.

Not sure why it is unrealistic, but I can grant you that. What about the co-worker scenario?

What if someone steals your iPhone X, cuts off your head and uses that to unlock it? These posts really need to stop it's getting ridiculous :rolleyes:

Another unhelpful sarcasm. In any case, I know you can't use Face ID with a severed head. I guess in that particular respect, it's a vast improvement over Touch ID (please indulge in my own pathetic sarcasm). But I am concerned with Face ID's (potential) shortcomings, not its improvements.

What if your wife comes up with a plan to wake you up.... with the phone in your face... she then hits you over your head and knocks you back out.

All just to read your text messages to make sure you aren't cheating.

Mean while..... She wishes you still had touch ID... because she would just place your finger on the home button while you were sleeping and no whack to the head was required.

Ditto. In that respect Face ID is an improvement over Touch ID. But too bad, I wasn't saying Touch ID is superior to Face ID in all and every respect.

The cops can also point the phone at your face and unlock the phone

Similar to the gunman scenario. No security system in the world will be good in this situation, where someone has custody of both your phone AND your body.
[doublepost=1505509675][/doublepost]I think I responded to everyone's sarcasm already. If you want to have a serious discussion, I'd appreciate it. If not, I respectfully ask you to move on. And please stop making the unwarranted assumption that I am claiming Touch ID is better than Face ID. I am not. I can see how Face ID can be superior to Touch ID in many situations. I am just curious about this one particular set of situations that I think is not so unlikely as to be dismissable.
 
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Dmal99

macrumors 6502
Sep 29, 2012
492
168
Similar to the gunman scenario. No security system in the world will be good in this situation, where someone has custody of both your phone AND your body.

Baloney. They cannot make you speak your code. It's still the MOST secure. You take the 5th. Doesn't anyone remember the whole "Apple you need to break us into IOS" thing?

If some of you are THAT worried about deus ex machina face ID unlock scenarios, USE A PASSCODE. Four digits will do, not even 6.
 

DeltaMac

macrumors G5
Jul 30, 2003
13,547
4,454
Delaware
What about the co-worker scenario - who simply picks up your phone, and waves it wildly in front of your face (for some unknown reason)?
It's your scenario, so I will add to that scenario with a reasonable idea that you would KNOW that your co-worker does not have an iPhone that looks just like yours.
Like many other paranoid scenarios - it is redikyouluss (spelling as pronounced to show my opinion of those kind of scenarios, and most have no founding in reality.
 

monotious

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
23
3
But what if someone kidnaps you, ties you to a chair forces you to unlock your phone and then plays cat videos on a loop :eek:

Answered this one a few times already.

Sorry I couldn't resist another one, it just highlights how silly these threads are. On a more serious note:

If your girlfriend/wife is wanting to trick you into unlocking your phone so they can go through it, there are serious trust issues somewhere (that's not Apple's fault).

And just to be clear, I wasn't saying anything about this situation, just to be clear.

A pickpocket is not going to take your phone out of your pocket and then hold it up against your face before walking off with it.

Well, a pickpocket is NOT going to take your iPhone X in the first place if he thinks there is no way to unlock it. May that's the answer. But then again, there may be pickpockets who think that they can actually pull this off and try it. Then what?

A police officer cannot gain access to your phone without a valid reason/warrant (at least they can't here in the UK)

Agreed. I am not a least bit concerned about anything involving police officers.

It's really getting silly the amount of situations that people are now making up that will likely never happen in the real world.

The whole premise of my thread is that the situations I was describing do not appear to be so silly or unfeasible. It appears that you disagree with that assessment. That's fine, I respect it if that is your thinking, but why don't you entertain me and assume maybe the situations I was describing could happen?
 

BeeGood

macrumors 68000
Sep 15, 2013
1,859
6,120
Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
See above. I may not necessarily personally be terribly concerned, but I'd think Apple should be?

You can’t expect Apple to have a solution for every single potential event that could occur in your life, no matter how remote the possibility. I mean, lets be honest, your hypotheticals are really improbable. And if someone disagrees and thinks it is possible, there’s always the password option.
 
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monotious

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 16, 2014
23
3
What about the co-worker scenario - who simply picks up your phone, and waves it wildly in front of your face (for some unknown reason)?
It's your scenario, so I will add to that scenario with a reasonable idea that you would KNOW that your co-worker does not have an iPhone that looks just like yours.
Like many other paranoid scenarios - it is redikyouluss (spelling as pronounced to show my opinion of those kind of scenarios, and most have no founding in reality.

Yeah, for some unknown reason. I wish we lived in a world where we didn't need a security feature in the first place. Too bad we don't.

Once iPhone X goes on sale, there will be may people carrying around iPhone Xs that look IDENTICAL. Look who's being redikyouluss...
[doublepost=1505510449][/doublepost]
You can’t expect Apple to have a solution for every single potential event that could occur in your life, no matter how remote the possibility. I mean, lets be honest, your hypotheticals are really improbable. And if someone disagrees and thinks it is possible, there’s always the password option.

And I am not demading that Apple have a solution for every one of life's problems.

Calm down, people, I know there's something deep in your heart that gets offended when you see a post like this, but I am not dissing Apple, nor am I say Apple is responsible for all the world's problems. As an Apple customer and likely future continuing customer, I am just thinking about a product feature. If you have a good answer to my concerns, great. If not, too bad, but don't go thinking I am here trying to bring Apple down with my words or any such. You are completely beating a scarecrow.
 

Dmal99

macrumors 6502
Sep 29, 2012
492
168
Hey what if you take two iPhone X's and put a picture of a face on each lock screen and then face them towards each other. Would it create an infinite time loop that would destroy the space-time continuum?
 
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bufffilm

Suspended
May 3, 2011
4,227
2,536
I can picture a situation, which I don't think would be very unrealistic.

What if someone comes into possession of my iPhone X without my knowledge, and then unlocks it with Face ID using my face all the while I am not aware of anything that happens? This would not happen with Touch ID because normally you would not touch (what you think is) someone else's phone, and even if you happen to touch your phone thinking it belongs to someone else (because the thief fools you into thinking it is not yours), the moment it unlocks, you'd realize it's yours. But with Face ID, the act necessary for unlocking (looking at the iPhone X) can be much less of a conscious act compared to what is necessary for Touch ID (touching the fingerprint sensor of the phone), so I'd think it would be much easier for a thief to unlock a Face ID phone without your knowledge than with a Touch ID phone.

For example, I may inadvertently leave my iPhone X on my desk at work to go to water cooler, a co-worker picks it up, and waves it in front of me. I don't know that she is holding my iPhone X, but I just unlocked my iPhone X for her, unaware.

Or what if a pickpocket pulls my iPhone X from my pocket without my knowledge, then stands next to me and unlocks it using my face when I glance at my iPhone X that the pickpocket is holding, thinking it belongs to the pickpocket?

Did I miss something from the presentation or any press releases or FAQs, or is this a legitimate concern?

I have no idea if FaceID will work well, but your example is a little far-fetched.
 
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