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What if the New 12" MBA Used an A8 Chip?

Just a quick note: a move to ARM will change very little for software availability. Any 64-bit Cocoa application which does not use assembler code (virtually all of them) can be cross-compiled to ARM with a single click. Same goes for most of the open-source software. Provided Apple manages to build an ARM chip which can actually rival Intel in performance, the only real drawback would be losing Windows compatibility.

BTW, a bigger problem for an ARM transition is lack of good GPUs. Right now, Intel offers best CPU/GPU combination on a single chip. Even if an ARM CPU were to match Intel, which GPU would be comparable?
 
I would guess that the GPU would be proprietary and derivative of Apple's iPad work. Interesting, Kuo predicts the rMBP line to be updated at the same time the 12" Macbook (no series listed) is released. I wonder if the rMBPs will be the first to receive Broadwell.
 
iMacmatician said:
Apple is supposedly designing their own GPU.
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I don't see this happening. GPU design is a very time-intensive enterprise and only companies with years and years of prior expertise can play the field. Intel has failed to build their own GPU despite their huge resource base and chip design experience (ok, their work on Larrabee directly influenced much of the current iGPU and vector execution units). Nvidia and AMD are basically fine-tuning the execution units they have developed years ago - and even for them, its very difficult to make any real progress. Nvidia just lucked out with Maxwell, but AMD seems to be stuck on both their CPU and GPU front.

Its actually quite interesting that Appel managed to build their own CPU core, but then again, ARM cores are comparatively more simpler than x86 ones, even though A7 shares many characteristics of modern Intel CPUs... But a GPU? I really don't thinks so. If they manage to do this, I will be extremely impressed.

driftless said:
I would guess that the GPU would be proprietary and derivative of Apple's iPad work. Interesting, Kuo predicts the rMBP line to be updated at the same time the 12" Macbook (no series listed) is released. I wonder if the rMBPs will be the first to receive Broadwell.
Click to expand...

Well, the current GPUs they are using for the iPad would need to half an order magnitude faster to be able to compete with Intel Iris (non Pro)... even if PowerVR manages to tripple the performance, it will still be significantly worse than what the machine can do now.
 
The one part of this rumor that I keep coming back to is that it is rumored to be a fanless device. That suggests ARM to me and not Broadwell. Is there a way to make a fanless Broadwell device?
 
driftless said:
The one part of this rumor that I keep coming back to is that it is rumored to be a fanless device. That suggests ARM to me and not Broadwell. Is there a way to make a fanless Broadwell device?
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Absolutely! Haswell even has a fanless version. The Broadwell chip will simply have improved performance. It will be interesting to see how much processing power a fanless Broadwell chip can bring.
 
No, if Apple move away from Intel in the future i will just bite the bullet and move back to Windows. Apple have a good thing going using Intel chips as Mac users can boot into Windows, there are some Windows users that buy a Mac just to run Windows. Why would Apple throw those sales away?
 
Hi torana355,

I am not trying to start a flame war, nor is this comment meant to be personal. Look how Apple handled Flash, optical drives, 17" MB, etc, etc, when they decide to be the segment leader. I can't imagine that protecting Windows running on their products as being something that would want to protect. And, if they decide that ARM is way of the future for mobile devices, they will march ahead even if no one is with them, a la the introduction of Thunderbolt. It is this leadership that I love about Apple, and why it is distressing to hear the complaints on this forum when Apple does the things that it is famous for.

- David
 
torana355 said:
No, if Apple move away from Intel in the future i will just bite the bullet and move back to Windows. Apple have a good thing going using Intel chips as Mac users can boot into Windows, there are some Windows users that buy a Mac just to run Windows. Why would Apple throw those sales away?
Click to expand...

I agree. If think there are a lot of Windows customers they could go after if it can be used as a Windows machine. I think they have a much wider audience to sell to. It could be a 'Surface RT' failure otherwise.

Additionally, I think Broadwell is still going to beat ARM at the processing power at its power level. I think Intel has a very good product in Broadwell. I want it in my MBA!

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thebrobrah said:
it would be throttled almost immediately upon somewhat intensive loads
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That is spreading FUD. Lets see it reviewed before making judgement. I trust Apple's designers.
 
driftless said:
Hi torana355,

I am not trying to start a flame war, nor is this comment meant to be personal. Look how Apple handled Flash, optical drives, 17" MB, etc, etc, when they decide to be the segment leader. I can't imagine that protecting Windows running on their products as being something that would want to protect. And, if they decide that ARM is way of the future for mobile devices, they will march ahead even if no one is with them, a la the introduction of Thunderbolt. It is this leadership that I love about Apple, and why it is distressing to hear the complaints on this forum when Apple does the things that it is famous for.

- David
Click to expand...

The move to ARM in itself is not my main gripe, its the fact we will lose the ability to boot into windows. We will also have to repopulate all our favorite apps with the ARM equivalent. If Intel was not improving each year like they are i could see why Apple may want to do this but as it stands there is no need to change given the downsides consumers would face.
 
IMO that would the equivalent to shooting oneself in the foot several times, on purpose, and asking for more.

Losing the ability to run OSX applications, be it games or word processors or pro-grade 3D modellers would be truly an awful and counter-productive move. Add to that we'd also lose being able to run Windows (via BC or virtualization).

I'm currently holding off for a new MBA, if the new one comes out equipped with an ARM chip I will cross Apple off my list.

Mobile apps made for iOS/Android/Win RT certainly are all fun and games on tablets and phones, but I will not and cannot use this stuff to earn a living; I need and want full-fledged OSX applications.
 
First off, let me make this clear, I don't think the new MBA will be an ARM device. But do I think a move to ARM for OS X is possible within the next few years? Yes!

Apple have a lot of in-house expertise on ARM that develops their iOS chips. Apple would be in a better place in terms of costs, security and dependancy if they could bring OS X chip development internal.

It would also mean all Apple products are using one chip family, not 2. That has a lot of potential for streamlining software development.

iOS and OS X are forks in the same code base. Making future OS X apps work on ARM should be well within the realms of possibility. Making legacy apps work should be an easier task than making PowerPC apps work on Intel hardware because of the common base. Another Rosetta is believable. Maintaining Bootcamp would be harder, but having a company that works on ARM and Intel hopefully means there is already a lot of knowledge of the differences, making emulation an easier task. It may be they have a Parallels type system, rather than a full boot to Windows.

The ARM chips on the market are all aimed at the mobile market. Who knows what potential performance is possible if ARM chips are developed for the desktop market? I wouldn't be surprised if Apple have investigated the possibility. I also wouldn't be surprised if the move to 64-bit ahead of the mobile competition was a result of such work, and maybe even preparation for the move.

Another driver for Apple would be differentiation. There wouldn't be the same direct comparisons to cheap PCs that share many internals.

And lastly, I believe describing the 64-bit ARM processors as desktop class was not just about saying how strong the iPhone 5S performance is. It could well be a declaration in intent.
 
iRun26.2 said:
I agree. If think there are a lot of Windows customers they could go after if it can be used as a Windows machine. I think they have a much wider audience to sell to. It could be a 'Surface RT' failure otherwise.

Additionally, I think Broadwell is still going to beat ARM at the processing power at its power level. I think Intel has a very good product in Broadwell. I want it in my MBA!

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That is spreading FUD. Lets see it reviewed before making judgement. I trust Apple's designers.
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thats fair...but i would call it a realistic expectation based on past history, especially considering this will be an evolutionary upgrade
 
thebrobrah said:
thats fair...but i would call it a realistic expectation based on past history, especially considering this will be an evolutionary upgrade
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What upgrade in the recent past has been revolutionary? I say that Broadwell, giving us a 5% improvement in performance yet also a 30% reduction in TPD, is just as significant as anything we've seen in a long time.

It is precisely what a new ultra-thin MBA needs to become revolutionary yet again (and it also keeps the machine compatable with all OSX and MS Windows user software).

I will be very happy if that's what we get. I will order the top of the line (BTO) model the day it is released if Intel's Broadwell is powering it.
 
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