pat500000
Suspended
This is where apple is trying to separate pro users from hobbiest by possibly increasing the base price. My prediction is 6k starting base of 8 core and up.
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What iMac Pro tells us about MP 7,1
- Thread starter Flint Ironstag
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I've never been a fan of the nMP, and part of the problem was, that no matter how much you spent on it, you still needed to add the cost of peripherals, especially pricey and untried Thunderbolt peripherals.
The base $3K model wasn't good for a whole lot of anything by itself, and even the much pricier versions weren't complete workstation solutions.
BB8
macrumors 6502
I don't think the iMac Pro/Mac Pro is a good product strategy. One of these products is going to die in short order because there's no way I believe there's enough demand to make both worthwhile continued investments. What will be interesting to see is which one is more successful.
Though, it's possible the iMac Pro was originally supposed to replace the Mac Pro and somewhere along the way they decided that wasn't going to cut it. Perhaps this is a one off product.
Either way it bothers that this product exists while there's still this massive gap between "pros who care about xeons and ECC" and "enthusiasts who want a more powerful machine than the 27" imac"
Though, it's possible the iMac Pro was originally supposed to replace the Mac Pro and somewhere along the way they decided that wasn't going to cut it. Perhaps this is a one off product.
Either way it bothers that this product exists while there's still this massive gap between "pros who care about xeons and ECC" and "enthusiasts who want a more powerful machine than the 27" imac"
fathergll
macrumors 68020
I think what it really will tell you is that the iMac Pro is the nail in the coffin for seeing a Mac Pro for a long time. They already admitted they are going to need to come up with a new design for the Mac Pro. There is no possible way Apple will release a Xeon spec iMac anywhere near the timeline for the new Mac Pro. Don't be surprised if it's June 2019 and you still don't have a new Mac Pro. I wouldn't be shocked if the Mac Pro doesn't get released until Dec 2019 at this point.
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The strategy actually makes sense IMO. Basically Apple is killing to birds with one stone. Apple has two products they need to update
- iMac
- Mac Pro
They are probably no where near ready to come out with a newly design iMac and they admitted they are no where near ready for a new Mac Pro. So they come up with the idea of putting the Mac Pro internals inside the iMac with better thermal design so the can appeal to both crowds. It's actually a very smart move. Don't get me wrong, this iMac isn't going to satisfy all the Mac Pro users but it's going to work for many of them and will hold off the pichforks of people who say there isn't powerful enough Apple computers.
Cuda and NVIDIA would be holding off the pitchforks. Metal2 and VEGA are not even released and will only work MacOS, so any of the High End companies that created software for multiple platforms like The Foundry, Blackmagic, Adobe, Autodesk, and AVID will all work better on NVIDIA and CUDA.
That being said, if Apple was still making high end software, which they completely abandoned, Final Cut Pro, Shake, Logic Pro and Appature to name a few, we would some fierce competition to Adobe and the others..
Apple wants to appeal to the high end again, but the high end market lost faith in Apple for them eliminating high end software along with the high end hardware. Just brining the hardware part back would only make them dominate again if the software came with it. Apple software isn't even used professionally anymore, it's all a little bit crazy IMHO.
fathergll
macrumors 68020
Well thats an ongoing issue that the new Mac Pro wasn't going to change most likely. Apple using AMD is par for the course. If you're a pro user and you need flexibility like that you need to get off the platform.
JesterJJZ
macrumors 68030
I don't think they would have made that announcement if it was gonna take THAT long. My guess is they will probably show us something at NAB or WWDC in 2018.
NAB would be smart.
fathergll
macrumors 68020
The iMac Pro isn't shipping until Dec 2017. If you think they are going to show off a new Mac Pro 6 months later then best of luck to you. Apple doesn't cannibalize products like that. Apple expects you to buy the iMac Pro is you are a Mac Pro user and will not release a Mac Pro under a rush. They will make sure it's something with a cool form factor so that it makes press like the trashcan. The iMac Pro is their admittance that they are not even close to coming up with a new Mac Pro design.
Scary Spice
macrumors 6502
scoobs69
macrumors 6502
You can get a 2400MHz DDR4 64GB kit for $470.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/THzZxr/gskill-memory-f42400c14d32gvk
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I'm a pro user, have had my own Mac tower since the 120MHz 8500/120. My next machine was the 800MHz G4 Quick Silver, I moved to a 24" White iMac because it was cheap, and it was a great graphic design machine. When I got into photography, it struggled, and I upgraded to 2009 2.66GHz Quad core. It has 8TB of storage, an SSD boot, Sapphire HD 7950 Mac Edition and 24GB of ram (it's triple channel for some stupid reason).
I've been waiting for a good Mac upgrade that'll give me a worthwhile performance boost for my money if I spend $3,500. With the iMac part of the cost is the display, which I don't need/want. And once you get into the iMac, anytime you want to upgrade your machine, you always have to pay for a new display.
I don't want another quad core, as it's limiting with Capture One Pro 10, especially if you're multitasking - exporting files C1P, and finishing files in Photoshop. With a quad core, the speed comes to a grinding halt. Even a 6 core would help, as C1P could utilize 4 cores, and PS would only need 1 or 2 cores.
the 64GB Ram upgrade would add another $1,200-$1,500 to the system if upgraded through Apple. I can get 64GB of the same speed 2400MHz DDR4 RAM for $470. It's not ECC, but not everyone needs ECC nor a Xeon processor for their work, yet they still want more than 4 cores (so the regular iMac really isn't an option). And it's a HUGE leap from the $3,400 price of the 2017 regular iMac up spec'd last night, to the $5,000 8-core 32GB iMac Pro.
There is a GINORMOUS hole in that line-up. As much as I love OS X, It's not worth that kind of price for me. Not anymore. Apple priced themselves out of a LOT of pro user's wallets.
This freaking sucks rocks.
Their isn't really any reason for the to invest in the iMac Pro if a MacPro 7,1 is anywhere on the horizon. One of the benefits of 7,1 MacPro as long as it has PCI-E will be the ability to upgrade some elements of it as future technology comes around.. Helping to alleviate the long term investment costs. For audio and video we don't allow any computers with fans in the edit or screening rooms. So no matter how quit the fans are in the iMac Pro, its to loud.
pat500000
Suspended
Don't you earn back from your profession? I don't to use write off excuse here, but isn't this investment?
This is what stands out to me too. A 6 core around $3500-$4000 seems an odd price point to be missing.
I think both are doomed to fail if the new Mac Pro is at the same price point as the new iMac Pro - they will simply cost too much.
Now I'm sure there will be big professional companies, with big professional budgets that will buy a few, but the reason the cMP was a success was it bridged both the dedicated enthusiast/semi pro (like me) AND the genuine professionals too.
This is MASSIVELY important IMO.
If Canon relied on just 'professionals' to buy their DSLRs they'd probably be out of business.
Like it or not, the 'prosumer' is an important segment that helps generate volume sales.
Often these people are the professionals of the future, so getting them on board the Apple eco system reaps dividends, not to mention the drip down effect it has with friends and relatives etc.
At the price point of the iMac Pro they are basically putting it beyond the reach of even the most aspirational semi pro/enthusiast and in doing so creating once again the conditions for it to flop.
You'd have to be very wealthy to drop $3000 or more on a tower/modular Mac.
I fear the same fate will befall the new Mac Pro too if it comes with one of these whopping price tags.
The thought that $2500 wouldn't get me a new Mac Pro is just silly, but sadly is looking likely now.
If they want the new Mac Pro to be a success, there has to be a couple of models starting at that price point IMO, otherwise people like me who really want one, will be priced out of the market and then it won't gain any traction.
Apple will (wrongly) believe that nobody wants Mac Pros anymore and point to poor sales as the proof, so it'll be a vicious circle resulting in the likely discontinuing (again) of what really is a popular Mac...if they just design and price it correctly.
Only meeting one of those goals will be almost certainly dooming it to failure before it even begins.
Both the functionality AND price have to be right for the new Mac Pro to be a success IMO.
The new iMac Pro...well unless there's a massive drop in price I'd expect it to sell very poorly.
Time will tell I suppose.
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flat five
macrumors 603
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
So, a bunch of used low end systems to prove your point?
I bet that if you went on eBay and Craigslist you might find some cheaper.
flat five
macrumors 603
prove what point?
dude said he wanted a $2500 macPro..
there are (some of) his options.
if i had a point it's that it's pretty obvious, going into the future there's no such thing as a $2500 mac pro unless it's used, clearance priced, or possibly refurbished.
No, I said I wanted the new as yet unreleased Modular Mac Pro to have a $2500 entry point.
I'm not interested in a trash can and if the next Mac Pro has a price point similar to the new iMac Pro it will be another disappointing flop.
Oh come on, we're obviously not talking about buying 4 year old tech, are we? I mean, we could buy Mac Pros for $500 if we wanted.
It wasn't really that long ago you could get a NEW Mac Pro for around $2500. And today you can get 6-core entry level workstations for that still. When Skylake E5-1600s drop, you'll be able to get 8-cores at that price.
I don't think price is going to make this next Mac Pro a flop. Most of us complaining about the nMP are professionals who earn a living using Mac Pros. Frankly, that segment is not particularly price sensitive. It's feature-sensitive and power-sensitive, which is why the current Mac Pro has been a failure.
For the sake of perspective, I expect the next Mac Pro to be expensive. I also expect it to be extremely powerful. I have no problem paying a premium for what I need in a Mac for work. It's arguably the most important tool I use.
There's nothing wrong with people buying Mac Pros for non-work purposes, but they're going to be expensive. I would seriously doubt you'll see $2500 as an option ever again.
Apple is not at all the same company sans Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was about research, innovation and perfection. This often clashed with the short-term financial interests of the company (which is the reason he was always at odds with Apple execs), but was ultimately what made Apple so successful. This is why Steve Jobs was so critically important to Apple (he was the one person capable of pushing back against these short-term financial interests). All the finance guys have been salivating at the opportunity to go full cash-cow with Apple for ages, and when Steve Jobs passed, they got their opportunity (when the initial vision of any large, public company is replaced, the replacement is he who best speaks the language of $$$). Apple is no longer innovative. They couldn't care less about loyalty. They are selling comically outdated hardware at unprecedented margins (even for them), fully exploiting their customers, as well as their rather unique market position (in that they have no real competition as it pertains to OS X).
Point being, the iMac Pro release is about $$$, period. They're shoehorning workstation components into an iMac frame because it's cheap, easy, and the Mac Pro is no longer selling.
Point being, the iMac Pro release is about $$$, period. They're shoehorning workstation components into an iMac frame because it's cheap, easy, and the Mac Pro is no longer selling.
What IMac Pro tells me about Mac Pro 7,1......
It tells me that nobody reads press releases or follows apples announcements and just goes completely overboard with emotional over the top ness and making up whatever crazy hypothesis matches their viewpoint.
It tells me that nobody reads press releases or follows apples announcements and just goes completely overboard with emotional over the top ness and making up whatever crazy hypothesis matches their viewpoint.
The Mac Pro doesn't exist in a vacuum though. There are alternatives. Maybe they don't work for some professional software or what have you, but if they do, you likely aren't "paying a premium" just to have an Apple sticker and crazy performance on silly benchmarks thanks to the duel GPUs you don't use (for example). Instead that premium could be more money in your pocket or some other gear that would also make your life easier. Anyway, do what you want with your money, but the nMP was a predictable failure for many of the reasons the iMac Pro is flirting with. Those being: too much of a niche market that needs all these premium features, little to no flexibility in configurations, thermally constrained, expensive.
Auggie
macrumors 6502
Since price points are one of the over-arching concerns mentioned by many within this thread, it should be noted that Apple has been moving forward towards "Made in the USA" Macs since 2013, beginning with it's new assembly plant in Austin, Texas:
https://9to5mac.com/2013/05/21/apple-ceo-tim-cook-says-made-in-usa-mac-will-be-assembled-in-texas/
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/06/06/cook-visits-mac-pro-factory/
The goal, as stated in 2014, was to increase the Austin assembly facility to 3,600 employees by 2021.
The takeaway from this is that the prices of the "Pro" Mac models will undoubtedly be more expensive due to higher manufacturing costs incurred by this "onshoring" initiative.
Being "stateside," I would begrudgingly pay this "Made in the USA" (or at least, "Assembled in the USA") tax as the price for bringing back jobs here. Of course, there are many who care only of the bottom-line, cheapest price.
https://9to5mac.com/2013/05/21/apple-ceo-tim-cook-says-made-in-usa-mac-will-be-assembled-in-texas/
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/06/06/cook-visits-mac-pro-factory/
The goal, as stated in 2014, was to increase the Austin assembly facility to 3,600 employees by 2021.
The takeaway from this is that the prices of the "Pro" Mac models will undoubtedly be more expensive due to higher manufacturing costs incurred by this "onshoring" initiative.
Being "stateside," I would begrudgingly pay this "Made in the USA" (or at least, "Assembled in the USA") tax as the price for bringing back jobs here. Of course, there are many who care only of the bottom-line, cheapest price.
