What is jabber? why do i care that ichat will implement it in tiger?

Motha-Canuker

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2004
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was watching the WWDC stream, and steve mentioned jabber support. Ive heard it mentioned a few times by other people as well...i know some might think its a stupid quesiton, but

what is jabber?

why is important that ichat have it implemented?

what will come of jabber implementation in ichat?
 

abhishekit

macrumors 65816
Nov 6, 2003
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akron , ohio
Jabber is an IM service like yahoo or MSN or AIM. As per why it should be implemented in iChat, I don't know. I have never seen anyone using Jabber. Infact IMO it would be better if they implement yahoo in iChat.
 

fuzzie

macrumors newbie
Jun 20, 2004
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Jabber is an IM system based on open standards and without a central server; addresses are in the form 'username@domain', where 'domain' is the server to connect to. For instance, exampleuser@jabber.org. This means interoperability between servers is possible (and, indeed, used all the time, given the many jabber servers out there).

Apple are supporting it in Tiger's iChat because they're shipping a jabber server with Tiger Server, for companies to run their own internal IM system, and they (obviously) want a client for that. It just happens that a lot of other people use other jabber servers, and iChat will be useful for that, too.
 

Motha-Canuker

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jul 27, 2004
17
0
ahh,

makes sense now.

just out of curiosity....with programs like ADIUM and PROTEUS....

why doesnt apply implement msn and yahoo compatability?
 

Logik

macrumors 6502a
Apr 24, 2004
616
0
Motha-Canuker said:
ahh,

makes sense now.

just out of curiosity....with programs like ADIUM and PROTEUS....

why doesnt apply implement msn and yahoo compatability?
aim is pretty much the defacto standard for Instant Messaging. I'm hoping it will be implemented in Tiger, in a way it will be. Jabber provides a backend to log into all services using one jabber account. pretty neat, so they are in a way providing access to all services with jabber support.. but i'm hoping they just give native support for it in the client itself instead, we'll see..
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
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Back in the motherland
Nermal said:
In what ways is it the 'defacto standard'? MSN is much more popular.
Depends on where you're at. In the States it is THE messenger. In the rest of the world it is not but since when does Apple care about the rest of the world? ;) :D
 

Gherkin

macrumors 6502a
Apr 9, 2004
511
156
Yea, I'd have to agree. I'm from the states, and I've never met ANYONE who has used anything other than AIM.
 

munkle

macrumors 68030
Aug 7, 2004
2,580
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On a jet plane
Gherkin said:
Yea, I'd have to agree. I'm from the states, and I've never met ANYONE who has used anything other than AIM.
Just because it is the most popular standard in the States does not make it the de facto standard for instand messaging.
 

Punani

macrumors regular
Jun 16, 2004
199
0
Los Angeles
munkle said:
Just because it is the most popular standard in the States does not make it the de facto standard for instand messaging.
No, but one has to remember Apple is still effectively us-centric.
 

Chaszmyr

macrumors 601
Aug 9, 2002
4,265
76
Nermal said:
In what ways is it the 'defacto standard'? MSN is much more popular.
I use my computer a ton, and I've met a lot of people irl and on websites and stuff that I talk to online. I've had to use AIM, Y!M, and ICQ, but never MSN.
 

BrianKonarsMac

macrumors 65816
Apr 28, 2004
1,102
83
never touched MSN. why people use it is beyond me...what a pile of ****, regardless of who makes it...just a waste of a time in ever respect to bother with MSN. It may be the standard in the international sense, but why is beyond me. O well, we have feet and inches, you have MSN. not everyone's perfect.
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
yeah, i agree that AIM and YM are the most popular in the states... I've started to see people using ICQ again, but I stopped using it in about 1999, and doubt I'll go back. But MSN? I never see it.

It remains to be seen whether the enterprise market will want the Jabber functionality... Most corporations I know of are too conservative, they wait as long as possible to embrace a new technology. Of course there are high-profile exceptions, but most corporations don't learn from that example. I blame sluggish and lazy IT managers.

paul
 

TDM21

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2004
789
0
Another thing about jabber is it can act like adium in sime ways. If you find servers that act have gateways open, you can one jabber client log onto you AIM, YAHOO, MSN instant messaging accounts, and own jabber account. I started using jabber client when I didn't want to wait on The Screen Savers' java client to load. That was when I learned the beauty of jabber. I think of jabber as a mix of IRC and normal instant messaging. On one end you can connect to chatrooms with many other users and on the other you can log onto your personal instant messaging accounts. Now if they could integrate a way to log onto IRC networks with jabber clients, I would throw away every instant messaging client I have.
 

Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2002
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New York
I find that IM clients are very regional, just like the different names for Soda/Pop/Coke in the United States. Different areas just use different clients, and it seems totally foreign to someone else as to why you would use Yahoo over MSN if you've used MSN all your life.

Ever single person I know from New York uses AIM, so using anything else would seem strange to me.
 

cb911

macrumors 601
Mar 12, 2002
4,119
3
BrisVegas, Australia
fuzzie said:
Apple are supporting it in Tiger's iChat because they're shipping a jabber server with Tiger Server, for companies to run their own internal IM system, and they (obviously) want a client for that. It just happens that a lot of other people use other jabber servers, and iChat will be useful for that, too.
oohh... thanks for posting that. verrrryyy int-er-est-ing. :D

on the subject of MSN, is there any Mac app that lets you use your AIM and MSN accounts? i know there's Trillian for PC, lets you use almost any IM account you can think of, but anything for Mac?
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
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Back in the motherland
cb911 said:
oohh... thanks for posting that. verrrryyy int-er-est-ing. :D

on the subject of MSN, is there any Mac app that lets you use your AIM and MSN accounts? i know there's Trillian for PC, lets you use almost any IM account you can think of, but anything for Mac?
Yep there is: Adium

Although I am not quite sure how you could have missed that... there is a humongous amount of posts about this app here... :D
 

johnnyjibbs

macrumors 68030
Sep 18, 2003
2,958
119
London, UK
IMO, the more protocols iChat plays ball with the better. I'm sure they'd like to have MSN and Yahoo support, but I bet it's down to Microsoft and Yahoo whether that could happen or not. Microsoft is always trying to break Proteus, etc which have to be constantly updated to remain able to access the MSN network. I could even see Microsoft charging subscription fees for MSN Messenger in the future as an anti-spam measure.

AIM is certainly not the defacto standard over here. MSN is definately the most popular that I know of, in Europe at least. I can't really say it's bad, it's just a shame I can't use iChat with it. At least MSN Messenger 4 for Mac fixed by connection timeout issues.

Supporting open standards like Jabber has got to be a good thing, even though I know no-one who uses it (they're all on MSN!). I'm hoping to one-day see a standard protocol, just like the internet protocols. The best move Apple did when producing iChat was to use an already exisiting protocol (i.e. AIM) rather than introducing its own one into the mix.
 

Heart Break Kid

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2003
568
8
Toronto
just got a hold of adc version of tiger

jabber support lets you connect to MSN and Yahoo and AIM and ICQ in ichat.

Had my first MSN chat in ichat today...very wierd..but very cool

problem? its kinda tricky to set up. first, you need a jabber account. make sure the account is set so your msn gateway is active, or yahoo or whatever floats your boat. then login via ichat.

its really slow, and a little buggy at this stage, but since we're still early in the game, im thinkin itll be fine sooner or later.

hope this helps

cheers!
 

AmigoMac

macrumors 68020
Aug 5, 2003
2,064
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l'Allemagne
I heard/read that google is coming with a messenger using the Jabber protocol, now it explains pretty well, apple know where to play...
 

cb911

macrumors 601
Mar 12, 2002
4,119
3
BrisVegas, Australia
thanks Diatribe and Veldek. :)

i did know of Adium, it's just that i tried MSN with it before, and it just didn't work. i must have forgotten that it even supported it. :p but i'll try the latest version... then i might have a look at those other apps if it doesn't work this time around...

@ Heart Break Kid - that's great news!! :D i hope that's not just something that they've accidentally done. hopefully that functionality will be there in the final.

Go Tiger!! :D
 

cb911

macrumors 601
Mar 12, 2002
4,119
3
BrisVegas, Australia
thanks Diatribe and Veldek. :)

i did know of Adium, it's just that i tried MSN with it before, and it just didn't work. i must have forgotten that it even supported it. :p but i'll try the latest version... then i might have a look at those other apps if it doesn't work this time around...

@ Heart Break Kid - that's great news!! :D i hope that's not just something that they've accidentally done. hopefully that functionality will be there in the final.

Go Tiger!! :D
 

Diatribe

macrumors 601
Jan 8, 2004
4,226
21
Back in the motherland
cb911 said:
thanks Diatribe and Veldek. :)

i did know of Adium, it's just that i tried MSN with it before, and it just didn't work. i must have forgotten that it even supported it. :p but i'll try the latest version... then i might have a look at those other apps if it doesn't work this time around...

@ Heart Break Kid - that's great news!! :D i hope that's not just something that they've accidentally done. hopefully that functionality will be there in the final.

Go Tiger!! :D
Very welcome. Adium is a nice app when you need to have MSN compatibility.
I don't know why I just like my iChat. And hopefully it's true and we have MSN funtionality in iChat with Tiger.
 

Heart Break Kid

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2003
568
8
Toronto
my only gripe with the msn integration via jabber, to add a buddys msn account to youur list - you have to add an account name thats like 100 characters long

example bob_smith%hotmail.com@msn.jabber.co.uk

that example has to be thier "jabber" account name, if you are adding from the address book. So they dont exactly allow you to add MSN accounts, but if you type the MSN account as shown in the jabber field of IM in address book, it can be done

edit - i faileed to mention that I would love to see a change in the way iChat handles contacts. If you are using your jabber account and AIM, 2 ichat windows show as if you are using iChat and enable rendezvous messaging. I would love to see all three windows be thrown into one - and support for meta data ala adium. This way if a buddy of mine is using his jabber account and AIM account, I will only see one NAME instead of 2 in 2 different windows

a little thing, but i think important enough to mention

other ichat interests

h264 isnt properly implemnted into ichat, and the current adc does not support multi audio/video conferencing. the video when you do conference is very pixelated - and im using an isight over a T1

video with AIM is implenented really well. Now i can start 1 way video and 1 way audio conferences with AIM users just like iChat users - and i notice that a lot more people now have the phone//video icon beside thier name - even if they dont have a web cam//mic - i guess it shows that you can start 1 way audio//video

iChat now supports profiles - which is something a lot of us wished we had for a long time

you can set your away message as the current track playing in iTunes which is nice

tabbed browsing does not exist in this build

the drawer effect is really nice for groups in ichat. instead of just opening, the groups now slide open - sort of like the drawer in panther's mail.

hmmm - cant think of anything else at the moment
will update if i do