What is your credit score?

[dukebound85]

One thing that everyone forgets, the 2-4% change from VISA/MC/AMEX/DISC is passed to the consumer. If I shop, e.g. buy groceries, I've always found it cheaper at the places that won't except CC than the places that do except credit card. Therefore, by using a CC, you're almost always paying a 2-4% surcharge for that luxury (which adds up to roughly 100-200€/year just on food alone.)

The same applies with a debit card then in respect to surcahrges.

Here in the US, the only places that I have ever seen charge more for using a CC/debit than cash are on the very random gas station (rare) or paying tuition

* At least in the US, your credit score is most definitely used for more than credit

Again, you may not like this at all (I certainly don't!) but the number of situations where your score is being checked is on the upswing. Applying for a job? There's a reasonable chance at some point in the process that your score may be pulled. My home and auto insurance just went down a substantial amount as they pulled my score and found it was quite good. The converse would have happened if my score would have been low. I could post more examples but I suspect everyone gets the idea.

Again, credit is a tool. Misuse it to your detriment or use it to your benefit, your choice. Yes, you can try to just not play the game but there are already disincentives for that approach and I suspect there will be more going forward.

Very good points. I remember having my credit checked when I got a job with the government. They figure if you have a poor score, then you are more opt to commit unethical/unlawful behavior to help ease finances. Regarding insurance, that is also true. You would be amazed when you get your credit report at what inquiries are made

 

[yg17]

Give just one example of wise credit usage.

Paying your credit card off in full each month as to not pay interest or late fees, while taking advantages of benefits offered by credit cards such as cash back/frequent flyer miles, extended warranties, rental car insurance, and the ability to file a dispute if something goes wrong and the merchant is uncooperative.

Very good points. I remember having my credit checked when I got a job with the government. They figure if you have a poor score, then you are more opt to commit unethical/unlawful behavior to help ease finances.

This is a practice I disagree with. If you lose your job, fall on hard times and are unable to pay bills and have to run up your credit cards, and your credit takes a hit, how are you supposed to find a better paying job to get out of debt if no one will hire you because of your poor credit? It puts you into a catch 22.

 

[smithrh]

One last point before I go off to lurking again - people should learn to look at things how they are, and not how they want them to be.

There's generally a gap between the two.

* Yes, there are good uses of credit. Just asking that question in a challenging manner indicates your position on it. Again, I mentioned there is a lot of posturing in this thread, unfortunately it persists.

* Yes, just about everyone knows about the surcharge that vendors pay. Trying to tell everyone in the thread that they've forgotten about it is foolish. Typically vendors are actually happy to pay the surcharge as they know that it usually increases sales.

Argue away... but regardless of your arguments, credit remains a life tool. Misuse it and you'll face issues...

 

[OneMike]

Paying your credit card off in full each month as to not pay interest or late fees, while taking advantages of benefits offered by credit cards such as cash back/frequent flyer miles, extended warranties, rental car insurance, and the ability to file a dispute if something goes wrong and the merchant is uncooperative.

You can dispute just the same with debit cards. Fortunately I only had to do this once a few years ago. Was smooth, sent my proof. Reimbursed just like that.

I still miss the point though. Most say use credit and pay in full so you can get more credit, so eventually you can get yet more credit.. I am failing to see what the big picture is. If you ask me why I don't use credit, but sum up I'd say.

Having money > borrowing money. I'd rather put my efforts towards actions that'll make me financially free, then focusing on building the availability of funds I can borrow only to have to pay back.. Will never make sense to me.

Pay in full you don't pay interest. Do you pay annual fees though and again what happens in the event they mess up one of your payments? As far as cash back, etc.. Not all, but some debit cards have the same or similar programs.

 

[dukebound85]

You can dispute just the same with debit cards. Fortunately I only had to do this once a few years ago. Was smooth, sent my proof. Reimbursed just like that.

I still miss the point though. Most say use credit and pay in full so you can get more credit, so eventually you can get yet more credit.. I am failing to see what the big picture is. If you ask me why I don't use credit, but sum up I'd say.

Having money > borrowing money. I'd rather put my efforts towards actions that'll make me financially free, then focusing on building the availability of funds I can borrow only to have to pay back.. Will never make sense to me.

Pay in full you don't pay interest. Do you pay annual fees though and again what happens in the event they mess up one of your payments? As far as cash back, etc.. Not all, but some debit cards have the same or similar programs.

With debit cards, it is your funds directly in limbo. Not so with a CC. Also, using a DC does not have near the perks as a CC.

If you use a CC as a DC, you reap all the benefits and only set yourself up for an easier time being lent money if you ever find yourself in that situation. Your goals that you have stated are not mutually exclusive with the use of a CC.

As per fees and what not, it depends on the card. The ones I have do not have fees. Late payments? Not a problem if you pay them early (treating like a DC)

To each his own though. I use my DC for most day to day purchases but opt for the CC for any revolving payments (like phone, insurance, etc). I also use a CC for any and all online purchases (I know that my CCs have a service where I can make a temporary number with a set limit in both amt and expiration in the event it gets compromised...aka the online merchant never has my direct CC number)

 

[yg17]

You can dispute just the same with debit cards. Fortunately I only had to do this once a few years ago. Was smooth, sent my proof. Reimbursed just like that.

But your money is held up when it's a debit card. With a credit card, you don't lose access to your money while the dispute is ongoing.

I still miss the point though. Most say use credit and pay in full so you can get more credit, so eventually you can get yet more credit.. I am failing to see what the big picture is. If you ask me why I don't use credit, but sum up I'd say.

I don't care about getting more credit. My credit limit is higher than I would ever need. If my bank wants to throw more credit my way because I pay on time each month, fine, but I'm not actively working towards it.

Having money > borrowing money. I'd rather put my efforts towards actions that'll make me financially free, then focusing on building the availability of funds I can borrow only to have to pay back.. Will never make sense to me.

I don't consider paying in full each month borrowing money. Perhaps borrowing for a few weeks, between date of purchase and date of payment, but it's not borrowing in the traditional sense. When I use my credit card, I have the money in my bank account. I'm not spending money I don't have.

Pay in full you don't pay interest. Do you pay annual fees though and again what happens in the event they mess up one of your payments? As far as cash back, etc.. Not all, but some debit cards have the same or similar programs.

No annual fees, never had a payment screwed up. And the debit card cash back programs are nowhere near as good as credit card cash back programs. Credit card programs are usually at least 1% cash back, debit cards are well under that.

 

[iBreatheApple]

Ibreathapple, can you check your forum from Sep. Lion Best Buy Open Box.
Thanks, sorry again.

On topic-
My credit score is trying to recover after ID theft...That's been a lot of fun.

I've responded.

 

[OneMike]

With debit cards, it is your funds directly in limbo. Not so with a CC. Also, using a DC does not have near the perks as a CC.

To each his own though.

If you lose a dispute with a DC, you're out of your money. If you lose a dispute with a CC, you now owe that money to the creditor. A loss is a loss. Sure you can decide not to pay the creditor if you lose with a CC, but they can come after you. And at best it'll mess up your credit, which would be worse then no credit.

I agree about to each his own. Glad we can all keep it clean. I disagree with using a CC, but at the end of the day whatever makes you happy is cool with me.

But your money is held up when it's a debit card. With a credit card, you don't lose access to your money while the dispute is ongoing.

Banks give provisional credits within 24 hours of the dispute, so no it's not held up. I'm speaking for the old Washington Mutual / now Chase, although should be same for other banks

I don't care about getting more credit. My credit limit is higher than I would ever need. If my bank wants to throw more credit my way because I pay on time each month, fine, but I'm not actively working towards it.

My question is what is the overall plan? For those who say use credit to build your score to get a house, I disagree that you need credit to qualify, but at least can see your plan. Many just seem to think you need to build credit to build credit. For what?

I don't consider paying in full each month borrowing money. Perhaps borrowing for a few weeks, between date of purchase and date of payment, but it's not borrowing in the traditional sense. When I use my credit card, I have the money in my bank account. I'm not spending money I don't have.

If you have the money in your bank account why wouldn't you just use that? Average person doesn't feel like they're spending their money when they use a CC and it helps you justify that purchase. I'd bet without a CC, even if you have the funds in your account. Most would purchase less (end up saving more) as typically you feel it more when you part with YOUR money then CC funds.

No annual fees, never had a payment screwed up. And the debit card cash back programs are nowhere near as good as credit card cash back programs. Credit card programs are usually at least 1% cash back, debit cards are well under that.

Never till this point. Hopefully won't, but you can't speak for the future. Nobody ever has an issue until they do. As far as cash back. Even if you are the exception. Many cards do have annual fees and Many people don't pay in full each month. If everybody got rich off cash back and perks, the creditors would be in business to lose money. We know that's not the case.

 

[rdowns]

If you lose a dispute with a DC, you're out of your money. If you lose a dispute with a CC, you now owe that money to the creditor. A loss is a loss. Sure you can decide not to pay the creditor if you lose with a CC, but they can come after you. And at best it'll mess up your credit, which would be worse then no credit.

Actually, my credit card protects me against that.

Return Protection
If a cardholder makes an eligible purchase with their Visa card and is dissatisfied with that item within 90 days from the date of purchase, the cardholder is eligible to receive reimbursement on items they purchase. Available to all Visa cardholders enrolled in this program. Check with your issuer to see if you have this benefit.

 

[yg17]

Banks give provisional credits within 24 hours of the dispute, so no it's not held up. I'm speaking for the old Washington Mutual / now Chase, although should be same for other banks

Didn't know that, I've never dealt with a dispute on my debit card. I have on my credit card, it was painless, and not once during the process did I lose access to my money.

My question is what is the overall plan? For those who say use credit to build your score to get a house, I disagree that you need credit to qualify, but at least can see your plan. Many just seem to think you need to build credit to build credit. For what?

A credit card is a great and easy way to build credit though. With other kinds of loans, you end up paying for it with interest or some other fees. A credit card, when used responsibly, builds your credit at no cost to you, and requires you to do nothing other than use it to pay for everyday expenses.

If you have the money in your bank account why wouldn't you just use that? Average person doesn't feel like they're spending their money when they use a CC and it helps you justify that purchase. I'd bet without a CC, even if you have the funds in your account. Most would purchase less (end up saving more) as typically you feel it more when you part with YOUR money then CC funds.

Because I like the protections and rewards that my credit card offers. My debit card offers none of those. I'm responsible enough with my money to not spend money I don't have and don't buy more because I have a debit card. Like I said, I use credit cards responsibly. If you don't use a credit card responsibly, it can be very damaging. And that's what it's all about - financial responsibility.

Never till this point. Hopefully won't, but you can't speak for the future. Nobody ever has an issue until they do. As far as cash back. Even if you are the exception. Many cards do have annual fees and Many people don't pay in full each month. If everybody got rich off cash back and perks, the creditors would be in business to lose money. We know that's not the case.

And I can't assume I'd never have similar problems with a debit card or bank account. A transaction is deducted twice. A cashier fat fingers an amount on the credit/debit card terminal and adds an extra zero. A computer or teller sees a check I wrote for $15.00 and deducts $1,500 instead. My paycheck direct deposit gets screwed up. My credit card payment getting messed up is just one of many things that could go wrong, it's stupid to worry about it and nothing else.

My card doesn't have annual fees; the day they start charging an annual fee is the day I feed it through the shredder and find another one that doesn't have fees. The people who aren't paying in full each month and don't have a damn good reason for not doing so (emergency expenses, etc), are being financially irresponsible. If you can't handle the responsibility, then you shouldn't have a credit card.

 

[OneMike]

Actually, my credit card protects me against that.

Return protection is NOT the same as a dispute / fraudulent transaction. Also, this is limited to $250 per item / $1000 yearly. Read the print on what is/isn't covered. If you Dispute a transaction and lose. DC or CC, you're paying.

...

As I said before I have mult bank accounts. The one I use for debit is not linked to my Savings/Direct Deposit, etc.. I add funds to it as needed for purchase and don't use overdraft protection. If it's not in the account, it's not meant to go through.

Another side note. Debit is seen as cash. I've purchased through Debit at best buy, returned and was refunded in cash. This doesn't always happen, but with CC can take anywhere from 3 days to a billing cycle for refund to reflect.

We can have different views but you know there are more irresponsible people with credit cards then responsible. Otherwise banks would be losing money and nobody goes in business to do that.

 

[aristobrat]

Do you pay annual fees though and again what happens in the event they mess up one of your payments?

AFAIK, the only folks that have credit cards with annual fees are those with low credit scores (and that's all they quality for), or high-end cards that add features like concierge service (where you can call up and say "hey, find me good seats for this concert" and they'll do the legwork for you).

Return protection is NOT the same as a dispute / fraudulent transaction. Also, this is limited to $250 per item / $1000 yearly. Read the print on what is/isn't covered. If you Dispute a transaction and lose. DC or CC, you're paying.

Right, both debit and credit give you the ability to dispute a transaction. However, only credit cards give you "return protection". As limited as it is, it's still potentially worth a value of $1000 to you (yearly), and I've never seen it offered on a debit card.

Another side note. Debit is seen as cash. I've purchased through Debit at best buy, returned and was refunded in cash. This doesn't always happen, but with CC can take anywhere from 3 days to a billing cycle for refund to reflect.

Right, because of the fee the merchant would incur to issue you a refund to your debit card, they will often give lesser amounts back in cash. Saves them money. However, if the refund exceeds the amount that they will refund in cash, you're going to wait the same amount of days for that refund to reflect on your card, as would a credit customer. Except this is actually your cash that you're waiting to post.

Banks give provisional credits within 24 hours of the dispute, so no it's not held up. I'm speaking for the old Washington Mutual / now Chase, although should be same for other banks

Banks that give provisional credits to debit accounts are doing so under their own accord. They are not federally required to. As the regulations read, they can take up to 10 days (without issuing you any credit) to respond to a dispute/fraudulent charge.

Further more, if you lose your debit card, or it's stolen, the federal regulations have you potentially responsible for 100% of the money lost, depending on how quickly you report the loss. With credit cards, federal regulations cap it at $50.

 

[greganpace]

Just curious what people are using to obtain their credit score? I've never checked and don't know where to look.

 

[dukebound85]

Just curious what people are using to obtain their credit score? I've never checked and don't know where to look.

My bank lists it for me when I log in online

You can get it directly from the credit agencies but its at a charge

 

[rdowns]

Just curious what people are using to obtain their credit score? I've never checked and don't know where to look.

My bank lists it for me when I log in online

You can get it directly from the credit agencies but its at a charge

You can get your credit reports from all 3 bureaus for free once a year. Best to get one every four months so you can see what's going on. Credit scores are not included.

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp

 

[dukebound85]

You can get your credit reports from all 3 bureaus for free once a year. Best to get one every four months so you can see what's going on. Credit scores are not included.

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp

Yea, don't go to freecreditreport.co

I would think it would be nice if they included the score with your report

 

[greganpace]

You can get your credit reports from all 3 bureaus for free once a year. Best to get one every four months so you can see what's going on. Credit scores are not included.

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp

So you have to pay to get the score no matter where you go?

 

[rdowns]

So you have to pay to get the score no matter where you go?

creditkarma.com used to give you one free. not sure if they still are.

 

[OneMike]

You can get a free trial Of score watch at http://www.myfico.com/Products/Products.aspx Which would give your Equifax score

 

[iBlue]

Compromised is compromised. I have multi bank accounts. My debit purchases all are done on the specific account I fund as needed for transactions. I'd never have purchases drawn from my main accounts under any situation. Debit cards can process the transactions as credit as well though and in my experience the protection has been the same.

...

The protection is far from being the same. A compromised credit card is typically less problematic than a compromised bank account.


All of your posts in this thread seem deliberately obtuse. Just because you're happy with your system doesn't mean everyone else is doing it "wrong".

 

[acidfast7]

The same applies with a debit card then in respect to surcahrges.

Here in the US, the only places that I have ever seen charge more for using a CC/debit than cash are on the very random gas station (rare) or paying tuition

You're missing the point :facepalm:

You probably don't shop at places that take cash only, that's why you don't see the difference.

----------

With debit cards, it is your funds directly in limbo. Not so with a CC. Also, using a DC does not have near the perks as a CC.

If you use a CC as a DC, you reap all the benefits and only set yourself up for an easier time being lent money if you ever find yourself in that situation. Your goals that you have stated are not mutually exclusive with the use of a CC.

As per fees and what not, it depends on the card. The ones I have do not have fees. Late payments? Not a problem if you pay them early (treating like a DC)

To each his own though. I use my DC for most day to day purchases but opt for the CC for any revolving payments (like phone, insurance, etc). I also use a CC for any and all online purchases (I know that my CCs have a service where I can make a temporary number with a set limit in both amt and expiration in the event it gets compromised...aka the online merchant never has my direct CC number)

Here, an EC directly does bank transfer (like a debit card) without VISA/MC getting a cut (it's almost like an ATM card).

Most, if not all credit cards, don't let you keep a revolving balance. Meaning that it comes from your account directly on the due date regardless if you have enough money in the account to cover it. Negative balances for a few days are not uncommon, especially for those on permanent (unfireable) contracts.

----------

Also, I like people to list the so-called benefits they receive from these credit cards (on a yearly basis) and then list the all the fees/charges/interest/time spent managing this stuff to see if it's worthwhile.

I doubt that it is compared to using cash, especially when time is factored in.

 

[mkrishnan]

Also, I like people to list the so-called benefits they receive from these credit cards (on a yearly basis) and then list the all the fees/charges/interest/time spent managing this stuff to see if it's worthwhile.

I doubt that it is compared to using cash, especially when time is factored in.

I think this is boiling down more and more to a difference of perspective. I know you and I have different political views, but I think you would actually be pleasantly surprised that, when it comes to personal finances, I am pretty conservative.

The benefits I receive from my card, starting with the tangible
- I do get 1% back -- there are better programs out there, but for me, this means a $500 check every few years.
- You're right in that having X hundred dollars in your wallet every month acts as an absolute spending control, but I like having an easy to view summary that gives me a heads up of what I'm spending money on, and I get this from my card's website.
- Work check deposits are automated (saves 10 minutes every two weeks) and cell phone, gas, and electricity bill via credit card (saves 1% of cost per above, has no fee, and saves about 20 minutes a month). Water is paid automatically too, but it's from a checking account.

The costs:
- I don't have an annual fee.
- I may have paid interest once, about 15 years ago, because I was out of country when my bill came and I didn't pay it on time -- I don't remember, they may have reversed this. Other than that, I've never paid interest.
- I don't go to many places offering cash discount, but I do occasionally take advantage of it (and I do keep some cash on hand, but I like it if I can just take cash out of my account once a month).
- On rare occasions in the past, I have paid fees to simplify payment for things like my university tuition when I was out of state (the way my grad program worked, I had to pay tuition in Florida for three terms while I was living in Chicago). I paid about $10 over the year for this, IIRC, and if we're being really anal about this, $1-2 of that would have gone to stamps, etc, to mail them a check.

The wash:
- I have had a couple of credit card identity thefts; if I didn't have a credit card, this wouldn't have happened, but the card company did pay for everything, and I admittedly wasted 2-3 hours total over the past five years on dealing with this.

In the end, my financials work pretty well with a credit card. And arguably replying to this thread anymore constitutes exactly the sort of waste of time that you are implying.

 

[aristobrat]

You're missing the point :facepalm:

You probably don't shop at places that take cash only, that's why you don't see the difference

And you probably don't live in an area where there are virtually no "cash only" businesses to shop in, making it a non-benefit. I live in the most populated area of Virginia, and pretty much the only "cash only" stores here some farmers markets, yard sales, and children's lemonade stands.

Most, if not all credit cards, don't let you keep a revolving balance.

Are you thinking of charge cards, like the green AMEX? They don't let you keep a revolving balance. I've never heard of a credit card that doesn't.

Also, I like people to list the so-called benefits they receive from these credit cards (on a yearly basis) and then list the all the fees/charges/interest/time spent managing this stuff to see if it's worthwhile.

I doubt that it is compared to using cash, especially when time is factored in.

1% cash back.
no fees.
no charges.
no interest.

Purchase Protection. For a good friend's birthday, I let him pick a pair of new sunglasses from Sunglass Hut. The pair he really liked was $199. Right after I paid, he set them down on the counter for a second, and then accidentally brushed his bag against the counter, knocking the glasses off, and shattering a lens. The manager made it clear that she was sorry, but she could do nothing to help. My friend looked ill over the whole incident. So I purchased another pair for him, and when I got home, I filed a purchase protection claim online. Before the next morning, AMEX had refunded the amount of the first charge.

Extended Warranty. I purchased a $300 TiVo that came with a one year warranty. 1.5 years after the purchase, the TiVo died -- simply wouldn't power on. I paid TiVo $200 for out-of-warranty service, then filed a claim with AMEX, and got the $200 refunded.

Return Protection. In the middle of nowhere on a Jeep club trip, my Jeep died and wouldn't start. Got a ride with another Jeeper to AutoZone, explained the problem, and the AutoZone employee was totally sure I just needed a new battery. Bought a new $100 battery, which turned out not to fix the problem. Tried to return the battery, but they don't accept returns on batteries. Filed a claim with AMEX and got the $100 refunded.

In regards to time, in my experience, managing cash wastes significantly more time than credit/debit. It involves multiple trips to the bank/ATM to obtain it, and the keeping/manual entry of every single receipt so that you can track your spending/budget. How freaking tedious!

 

[arkitect]

It's been curious reading this thread.

This whole "Credit Score OMFG!" seems to be a particularly US obsession though.

I have no idea what my credit rating is and I'm not losing any sleep over it.

 

[OneMike]

The protection is far from being the same. A compromised credit card is typically less problematic than a compromised bank account.


All of your posts in this thread seem deliberately obtuse. Just because you're happy with your system doesn't mean everyone else is doing it "wrong".

Never said anyone was "wrong." I said plenty times, do whatever makes you happy.

As far as begin less problematic, prove it. Many of the pro CC people here make these claims with nothing to back it. I had a DC" issue" a few years ago, was resolved. Know others with DC issues, were resolved. Same for CC. Using common sense when you shop is > CC or DC protection.