What is your credit score?

[rdowns]

Also, I like people to list the so-called benefits they receive from these credit cards (on a yearly basis) and then list the all the fees/charges/interest/time spent managing this stuff to see if it's worthwhile.

I doubt that it is compared to using cash, especially when time is factored in.

How obtuse can you be? The benefits have been posted several times in this thread by several different members. Again, no fees and no interest. 1-3% of my purchases back in cash or store gift cards.

Managing it all takes no more than a few minutes each month, if that.

If all you spend is cash, it takes way more time to manage and track your money than using a credit card.

 

[iBlue]

Never said anyone was "wrong." I said plenty times, do whatever makes you happy.

As far as begin less problematic, prove it. Many of the pro CC people here make these claims with nothing to back it. I had a DC" issue" a few years ago, was resolved. Know others with DC issues, were resolved. Same for CC. Using common sense when you shop is > CC or DC protection.

Plenty of people have spoken up about CC protection and the advantages. I think I'll pass on "proving" anything to you. Clearly you just want to be an asspain to anyone who doesn't see it your way and I'm not entertaining that any more.

 

[yg17]

I just had to RMA a dead hard drive with Western Digital and chose the advance shipping option where they ship you the replacement before you ship the old one back (which I had to do since I didn't have an antistatic bag or proper packing materials to pack the dead drive with, which is a requirement for RMAing a drive). The one caveat is they had to put a $150 hold on a credit card in case I don't send the dead drive back.

I could have given them my debit card number, but then that $150 hold means there's $150 of my money that I wouldn't have access to for at least a week. I gave them my credit card instead, and they placed the $150 hold on that. Since my credit limit far exceeds what I actually need for the everyday purchases I put on my card, temporarily losing access to $150 in credit was no problem for me.

Again, you can preach about how terrible credit cards are all you want and how they offer no benefits over debit cards, but this is just yet another example where a credit card offers a clear advantage over a debit card.

 

[rdowns]

I just had to RMA a dead hard drive with Western Digital and chose the advance shipping option where they ship you the replacement before you ship the old one back (which I had to do since I didn't have an antistatic bag or proper packing materials to pack the dead drive with, which is a requirement for RMAing a drive). The one caveat is they had to put a $150 hold on a credit card in case I don't send the dead drive back.

I could have given them my debit card number, but then that $150 hold means there's $150 of my money that I wouldn't have access to for at least a week. I gave them my credit card instead, and they placed the $150 hold on that. Since my credit limit far exceeds what I actually need for the everyday purchases I put on my card, temporarily losing access to $150 in credit was no problem for me.

Again, you can preach about how terrible credit cards are all you want and how they offer no benefits over debit cards, but this is just yet another example where a credit card offers a clear advantage over a debit card.

Shame on you for not asking if they offered a cash discount option.

 

[acidfast7]

And you probably don't live in an area where there are virtually no "cash only" businesses to shop in, making it a non-benefit. I live in the most populated area of Virginia, and pretty much the only "cash only" stores here some farmers markets, yard sales, and children's lemonade stands.

Germany, except in the tourist areas, don't accept CC because of the 2-4% fees.

Are you thinking of charge cards, like the green AMEX? They don't let you keep a revolving balance. I've never heard of a credit card that doesn't.

German/Swedish CCs don't let one keep a revolving balance, at all. It MUST go to zero at the end of the month. There are a few that do allow a balance, but their usually tied to collateral (e.g. a business). Therefore, the whole personal debt problem has been avoided.

1% cash back.
no fees.
no charges.
no interest.

Purchase Protection. For a good friend's birthday, I let him pick a pair of new sunglasses from Sunglass Hut. The pair he really liked was $199. Right after I paid, he set them down on the counter for a second, and then accidentally brushed his bag against the counter, knocking the glasses off, and shattering a lens. The manager made it clear that she was sorry, but she could do nothing to help. My friend looked ill over the whole incident. So I purchased another pair for him, and when I got home, I filed a purchase protection claim online. Before the next morning, AMEX had refunded the amount of the first charge.

Extended Warranty. I purchased a $300 TiVo that came with a one year warranty. 1.5 years after the purchase, the TiVo died -- simply wouldn't power on. I paid TiVo $200 for out-of-warranty service, then filed a claim with AMEX, and got the $200 refunded.

Return Protection. In the middle of nowhere on a Jeep club trip, my Jeep died and wouldn't start. Got a ride with another Jeeper to AutoZone, explained the problem, and the AutoZone employee was totally sure I just needed a new battery. Bought a new $100 battery, which turned out not to fix the problem. Tried to return the battery, but they don't accept returns on batteries. Filed a claim with AMEX and got the $100 refunded.

In regards to time, in my experience, managing cash wastes significantly more time than credit/debit. It involves multiple trips to the bank/ATM to obtain it, and the keeping/manual entry of every single receipt so that you can track your spending/budget. How freaking tedious!

So, your friend carelessly breaks his glasses?

All products in the EU come with a mandatory 2 year warranty ... including all Apple products.

Cash is easy ... I load the wallet at the beginning of the money with 300-500€. That's 10-15€/day for eating, going out etc. At the end of the month if I have extra money, it gets spent, if I don't I live lean until the beginning of the next month. It takes no time and SAVES time because when I go out/make a purchase it's faster than a DEBIT/EC or CC (because there's no swipe/sign/waiting for the CC back.)

You don't need to track a budget, when the money is gone, it's gone.

Also, in a few countries over here, everyone in the whole country gets paid on the same day (in Sweden it was the 25th), so maybe it's easier for us to manage money without this complex database needed to ensure that we're not exceeding our monthly allotment for toothpaste or cheese.

----------

I just had to RMA a dead hard drive with Western Digital and chose the advance shipping option where they ship you the replacement before you ship the old one back (which I had to do since I didn't have an antistatic bag or proper packing materials to pack the dead drive with, which is a requirement for RMAing a drive). The one caveat is they had to put a $150 hold on a credit card in case I don't send the dead drive back.

I could have given them my debit card number, but then that $150 hold means there's $150 of my money that I wouldn't have access to for at least a week. I gave them my credit card instead, and they placed the $150 hold on that. Since my credit limit far exceeds what I actually need for the everyday purchases I put on my card, temporarily losing access to $150 in credit was no problem for me.

Again, you can preach about how terrible credit cards are all you want and how they offer no benefits over debit cards, but this is just yet another example where a credit card offers a clear advantage over a debit card.

That was your choice. You could've shipped the dead drive back and waited for the new one. Essentially, they charged you for the second and refunded the first.

 

[rdowns]

So, your friend carelessly breaks his glasses?


All products in the EU come with a mandatory 2 year warranty ... including all Apple products.

Really, dude? It was an accident and a product warranty would not have covered that.

Cash is easy ... I load the wallet at the beginning of the money with 300-500€. That's 10-15€/day for eating, going out etc. At the end of the month if I have extra money, it gets spent, if I don't I live lean until the beginning of the next month. It takes no time and SAVES time because when I go out/make a purchase it's faster than a DEBIT/EC or CC (because there's no swipe/sign/waiting for the CC back.)

And what happens if you lose your wallet or are robbed? Can you call the cash company up to make sure the cash can't be spent by others?

 

[soco]

And what happens if you lose your wallet or are robbed? Can you call the cash company up to make sure the cash can't be spent by others?

What?! There's no such thing as a cash company. That's ridiculous...

 

[yg17]

All products in the EU come with a mandatory 2 year warranty ... including all Apple products.

Must be nice living in a country with consumer protection laws. In the US, those are unheard of and companies can offer 90 day warranties so extended warranty benefits on credit cards are a good thing to have.

Cash is easy ... I load the wallet at the beginning of the money with 300-500€. That's 10-15€/day for eating, going out etc. At the end of the month if I have extra money, it gets spent, if I don't I live lean until the beginning of the next month. It takes no time and SAVES time because when I go out/make a purchase it's faster than a DEBIT/EC or CC (because there's no swipe/sign/waiting for the CC back.)

You don't need to track a budget, when the money is gone, it's gone.

I prefer tracking a budget, which a credit card makes easy because there's a record of purchases. I can see on my statement where every penny of my money went. With cash, you have to hold on to all of the receipts to track where your money is going. It's much easier just looking at a single statement to find out where you're spending your money at.

That was your choice. You could've shipped the dead drive back and waited for the new one. Essentially, they charged you for the second and refunded the first.

Yeah, I could have gone out and bought an antistatic bag (where the hell do you buy those things at anyways?), then buy a cardboard box, bubble wrap, etc, or I could opt for advance replacement and re-use the box, bag and packaging they sent the replacement drive in. It was my choice, but a much more convenient choice made possible by a credit card because I would not want that $150 hold on my debit card.

What?! There's no such thing as a cash company. That's ridiculous...

That's the point...if my wallet gets lost or stolen, I call up my bank and they deactivate my card. I even get refunded if they use my card to buy stuff. I don't lose anything. If I have a bunch of cash in my wallet, it's gone.

 

[acidfast7]

Really, dude? It was an accident and a product warranty would not have covered that.




And what happens if you lose your wallet or are robbed? Can you call the cash company up to make sure the cash can't be spent by others?

violent crime (including muggings) happens extremely infrequently, compared the US. it happens so infrequently, it's not even a concern. I just asked my coworkers in the corridor (about 15 of them) and they've never even heard of someone being "mugged." this is most likely because guns are banned (in some countries even by the police). it's much harder to mug someone with a knife.

i've never lost my wallet. ever. i've droppped it once and had someone return it with 2700SEK (270€) in it after they sent me a msg on facebook.

seriously guys, the whole CC argument is weak at best. especially the whole cash back thing. you've all missed the point of what you call a "cash discount." everything you buy would be 2-4% cheaper if you didn't insist on using CC, but since everyone insists the 2-4% is just incorporated into the cost, and that where this 1% back (up to a certain limit) comes from

:facepalm:

 

[aristobrat]

So, your friend carelessly breaks his glasses?

My friend accidentally broke his glasses. I suppose in Germany/Sweden, there are no accidents.

All products in the EU come with a mandatory 2 year warranty ... including all Apple products.

AMEX adds an extra year to a factory warranty, period. So your Mac, paid with AMEX, would be covered for three years. At no additional cost to you, since Apple doesn't offer cash discounts. And if it's lost/stolen/physically damaged during the first 90 days, that's completely covered. Does the EU mandatary warranty cover any of that?

It takes no time and SAVES time because when I go out/make a purchase it's faster than a DEBIT/EC or CC (because there's no swipe/sign/waiting for the CC back.)

In the US, that's rarely the case. You swipe while the cashier is ringing up the sale, (so there's no time lost there). If a signature is required, that process typically goes faster than the cashier having to open the cash drawer, put your money away, and then pull out your change, and count it back to you.

You don't need to track a budget, when the money is gone, it's gone.

What a freaking joke.

 

[acidfast7]

I prefer tracking a budget, which a credit card makes easy because there's a record of purchases. I can see on my statement where every penny of my money went. With cash, you have to hold on to all of the receipts to track where your money is going. It's much easier just looking at a single statement to find out where you're spending your money at.

That's why it's disposable income. I do happen to buy most food/groceries with it, though.

 

[OneMike]

yg17
I could have given them my debit card number, but then that $150 hold means there's $150 of my money that I wouldn't have access to for at least a week. I gave them my credit card instead, and they placed the $150 hold on that. Since my credit limit far exceeds what I actually need for the everyday purchases I put on my card, temporarily losing access to $150 in credit was no problem for me.

I actually agree with you that using a CC in that case would keep your available actual cash higher.

Going back to long term plan or a plan in general though. I have different funds I put aside and one specifically for events like a car rental is needed, Tire blows, get sick, etc.. So while it's my money, it's for a specific reason. Using it would take that fund down, then when released it's right back or if I need to actually spend some of it. I replenish it.. So basically I have different accounts where I'm the "Creditor." I'd rather borrow or pay myself back then a bank.

 

[yg17]

seriously guys, the whole CC argument is weak at best. especially the whole cash back thing. you've all missed the point of what you call a "cash discount." everything you buy would be 2-4% cheaper if you didn't insist on using CC, but since everyone insists the 2-4% is just incorporated into the cost, and that where this 1% back (up to a certain limit) comes from

That argument is incorrect because cash still costs stores money. Someone has to be paid to count it all and handle the bank deposit. Some banks actually charge a fee for large cash deposits since it all has to be handled at the bank by a person rather than electronically. Armored cars have to be hired to bring cash to and from the business. The more cash a business has on hand, the more they could lose in the event of a robbery or natural disaster that destroys their building. Or if they have insurance on that (which they hopefully do), the more cash they deal with, the higher their premiums will be for said insurance.

Cash isn't free for a business. There are costs associated to it as well, costs which are also rolled into the price of what you buy. In fact, the reason many stores will let you buy something for a dollar with a debit card and then get cash back is because they want to offload cash by the end of the day.

 

[rdowns]

violent crime (including muggings) happens extremely infrequently, compared the US. it happens so infrequently, it's not even a concern. I just asked my coworkers in the corridor (about 15 of them) and they've never even heard of someone being "mugged." this is most likely because guns are banned (in some countries even by the police). it's much harder to mug someone with a knife.

i've never lost my wallet. ever. i've droppped it once and had someone return it with 2700SEK (270€) in it after they sent me a msg on facebook.

seriously guys, the whole CC argument is weak at best. especially the whole cash back thing. you've all missed the point of what you call a "cash discount." everything you buy would be 2-4% cheaper if you didn't insist on using CC, but since everyone insists the 2-4% is just incorporated into the cost, and that where this 1% back (up to a certain limit) comes from

:facepalm:

I'll just leave this here.

Frankfurt has been declared the most dangerous city in Germany according to still unreleased crime statistics for 2010, which apparently show the city had the largest number of murder and manslaughter cases per 100,000 residents.


According to Focus magazine, Frankfurt has now topped the criminality chart 22 times in the last 25 years. The western city is followed by Hannover and Berlin.

 

[aristobrat]

I actually agree with you that using a CC in that case would keep your available actual cash higher.

Simliar situation when using a debit card to purchase gas. There's typically a hold of $100 placed, which may take days to clear. Gas stations around here are no starting to put signs like below on the pumps.

 

[acidfast7]

I'll just leave this here.

Homicide rate / 100000 people (in 2010)

Global average: 6.8/100000
US: 4.8/100000
Germany: 0.8/100000

Color me not concerned.

Sources:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls

http://www.bka.de/nn_224658/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/pks__node.html?__nnn=true

----------

Simliar situation when using a debit card to purchase gas. There's typically a hold of $100 placed, which may take days to clear. Gas stations around here are no starting to put signs like below on the pumps.

Image

Why not just pay cash ... the fuel is cheap enough for you guys.

----------

AMEX adds an extra year to a factory warranty, period. So your Mac, paid with AMEX, would be covered for three years. At no additional cost to you, since Apple doesn't offer cash discounts. And if it's lost/stolen/physically damaged during the first 90 days, that's completely covered. Does the EU mandatary warranty cover any of that?


What a freaking joke.

Actually, the EU warranty makes everything 2 years. 90 days is common in the US, so you need an AMEX (which is hardly accepted globally without charge) to not even match what EU purchasers get for free.

I hardly understand why a crappy warranty + AMEX hassle is better than a longer mandatory hassle-less warranty.

What a freaking joke.

 

[aristobrat]

Why not just pay cash ... the fuel is cheap enough for you guys.

Because you'd have to walk inside, stand in line waiting your turn, give them more money than you expect it will take for you to fill your tank, go outside, fill your tank, walk back inside, stand in line waiting your turn, get your change, leave.

vs

Insert your credit card at the pump, fill your tank, leave. Plus you get 1% of the total cost back, since there isn't a cash discount at 99.99% of gas stations.

 

[yg17]

I hardly understand why a crappy warranty + AMEX hassle is better than a longer mandatory hassle-less warranty.

I've used the AmEx warranty once and it was hardly a hassle. I had to fill out a claim form online that asked basic information, had to fax over a repair estimate and a few days later, the repair estimate price was credited to my card.

 

[aristobrat]

Actually, the EU warranty makes everything 2 years. 90 days is common in the US, so you need an AMEX (which is hardly accepted globally without charge) to not even match what EU purchasers get for free.

Do EU purchasers really get that warranty for free? I've noticed that virtually all electronics costs more in the EU vs. the US, even when you factor out VAT, currency rates, etc.

The point is, things obviously work differently in your country than my country. So why do you continue to insist that your method (that works best for you, in your country) is better than my method (that works best for me, in my country)?

 

[OneMike]

Simliar situation when using a debit card to purchase gas. There's typically a hold of $100 placed, which may take days to clear. Gas stations around here are no starting to put signs like below on the pumps.

My Chase debit doesn't do that. My wifes credit union does though and I think bank of america as well. Haven't used it in about a year for gas, but I think my Paypal debit did too.

I don't agree this is an issue cause unlike car rental, return, etc.. where you don't have an option. You can just go in and pay in cash. Unless a really busy station, going inside to pay shouldn't take too much more time then swiping card, entering zip, selecting octane..

 

[acidfast7]

Because you'd have to walk inside, stand in line waiting your turn, give them more money than you expect it will take for you to fill your tank, go outside, fill your tank, walk back inside, stand in line waiting your turn, get your change, leave.

vs

Insert your credit card at the pump, fill your tank, leave. Plus you get 1% of the total cost back, since there isn't a cash discount at 99.99% of gas stations.

I usually buy an espresso, stand at the bar, and read the newspaper when I fill up, so it's not a big deal. What's an extra 2€ when I'm spending 90€ on a tank of fuel.

----------

I've used the AmEx warranty once and it was hardly a hassle. I had to fill out a claim form online that asked basic information, had to fax over a repair estimate and a few days later, the repair estimate price was credited to my card.

My point is that EU basic warranty is better, so there's no need for AMEX.

 

[aristobrat]

I don't agree this is an issue cause unlike car rental, return, etc.. where you don't have an option. You can just go in and pay in cash. Unless a really busy station, going inside to pay shouldn't take too much more time then swiping card, entering zip, selecting octane..

There's time involved in obtaining the $80 cash to go inside to pay with. And to fill a tank at a "pay before you pump" gas station (which are the most common where I live), it involves two trips inside. Add to that the least expensive gas stations around here are the Wawas (which are always really busy inside, as people are always buying coffee/food/etc), it really does take a good amount of time to use cash.

 

[yg17]

My point is that EU basic warranty is better, so there's no need for AMEX.

That's great, not all of us live in the EU.

This is the way things are in the US, so don't imply that people over here who use credit cards are financially irresponsible when you don't know how it works over here.

 

[acidfast7]

Do EU purchasers really get that warranty for free? I've noticed that virtually all electronics costs more in the EU vs. the US, even when you factor out VAT, currency rates, etc.

MBA (Germany): 949€ x 1.3€/USD - 19% VAT = 999.92 USD
MBA (US): 999 USD

I really don't understand your point.

----------

That's great, not all of us live in the EU.

This is the way things are in the US, so don't imply that people over here who use credit cards are financially irresponsible when you don't know how it works over here.

Yes I do. I lived there for a long time and that's why I know that the CC benefits don't outweigh the hassle/cost/inconvenience.

 

[aristobrat]

My point is that EU basic warranty is better, so there's no need for AMEX.

I don't live in the EU, so your point means nothing to me.

Where I live, purchasing with virtually any credit card adds value to me, at no additional cost.

If businesses here ever start to offer reduced prices for paying in cash (something that gas stations tired years ago, then abandoned), I'll reconsider my use of credit cards. Until then, your point that "but you pay an extra 2-4% in prices because of cards" is moot, as there is no alternative.

I understand why you don't use credit cards in your country. Those reasons are not issues where I live.

Yes I do. I lived there for a long time and that's why I know that the CC benefits don't outweigh the hassle/cost/inconvenience.

There is no hassle, cost, or inconvenience for me using a CC. You have yet to provide a valid example of any that affect me, whereas I have provided many examples of how using cash is a hassle/inconvenience for me.