Chip NoVaMac said:
You misunderstood to a degree. With higher pixel depth, the Canon 1D and 1Ds will have the chance for lower noise than comparable megapixel counts in other DSLRs.
And so does Nikon and Olympus now too. For our shop, we take all that rep talk with a large grain of salt.
I was speaking of news organizations switching from the buys that our commercial group are actually closing.
Again, I am only reporting on what we are seeing in the sales end; and in the used gear that we are seeing come in. You seem to be trying to defend Nikon on all fronts. Suggesting that Nikon seems to be the only way to go. And that is not the case.
Each manufacturer is offering systems that are worthy to be looked at by every level of photographer.
Agreed. But I mentioned the switching to Canon by some news agencies to balance your Nikon all the way feeling that you seem to press at every opportunity. In the end the camera is just a tool. Just as a recent article talks of a photojournalist that is using digital P&S's exclusively in his work (cameras like the Olympus C-5060).
Having worked in both industries, I think you are mistaken. Either that, or the companies I worked for kept all that extra money for themselves. If anything it is Nikon that tries to court the dealers and sales reps a bit more than Canon. And their customer base as well. Just look at the rebates generally offered by Nikon verses Canon (save for the great rebate program over the holidays by Canon on the DRebel and their lenses - that was a first in a long time for Canon).
Sorry that you have so low of an opinion of camera shops and their people. All I can say is that for our shop, we are not on commission. Just straight hourly wages. So for us, it does not matter whether one buys a Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Minolta, or what have you. Our goal is to get you a camera or lens that you will be happy with and not return in 14 days.
It just seems to me and some others that hit hard the Nikon only message. Glad you are happy with your choice of gear, but there are other choices out there. Over the years I have owned almost every major brand of camera gear. Currently for my DSLR it is a Canon 10D. Though for my style of shooting and needs I am looking at switching to the E system from Olympus. In the end I try not to be a fanboy for just one camera system.
Each system has its plusses and minuses. For a pro that need can be met IMO best by either Nikon or Canon. For a pro needs the ability to be able to rent gear that they need, but can not justify owning. And in most cities that means rental shops that have a good selection of lenses in the Nikon and Canon mounts.
You made it seem that Canon has a flawed approach by offering three different crop factors for their DSLR range. If there is a flaw IMO, it is that Canon does not offer a truly "pro" body with the 1.6 sensor. Otherwise Canon does offer the pro the ability to maximize their lens purchases by allowing the use of most any lens on each pro body from 35mm to the 1DsmkII. All without having to buy digital specific lenses to have a good wide angle zoom. At the same time though, for a pro that needs a true ultra wide zoom are better served by the Nikon and its 12-24 DX zoom. It is all about selecting the right tool for the needs you have. But to that end Olympus eats both Canons and Nikons lunch with a fast 7-14 (14 to 28 in 35mm speak) zoom lens.
Your "Fox News" approach to Nikon as the DSLR that people should buy just needs some balance, that is all.
gosh. i just read over this post, and it certainly looks like you're the fanboy here.
That last paragraph is the biggest pile of junk i've seen in awhile here. Canon being the good guy because it offers several sensor sizes? Offering "the ability to maximize their lens purchases by allowing the use of most any lens on each pro body from 35mm to the 1DsmkII. All without having to buy digital specific lenses to have a good wide angle zoom."
Only the 1ds mk I/II does this, barely. And you get edge softness to boot.
You can buy a 17-40 and get 22mm on a 1d mk II or 17-40 on the DS series but most pros are probably shooting a 1d mk II and a 20d/10d. At that point, you're only barely into wide angle at 28mm.
Most good photographers previsualize. I know, based on what lens I have on my camera, which focal lengths I wish to use for a given situation. If I have my d100 or my d2h, I know my lenses are going to act 100% the same from body to body. Canon can't do that.
Secondly, Canon ditched the MF mount and moved to the EF mount. Not compatible. They have digital EF-S lenses that only work on the 1.6 crop sensor. And then you have the situation where the 1ds mk II out-resolutions the lense on the wide end. This is a big deal on a lot of forums, especially dpreview. Canon in the corners on the full frame is infinitely softer.
Funny that you bring that point up. My D2h can meter with all of my old MF Nikkors. 24 1.4 ai? Yes. It can also meter with the new digital lenses. The 17-55? You betcha. And all of those lenses work on my F100 too. Even the 17-55 (though only from 28-55).
If you put an EF-S lens on your 1d mk II you risk the rear element (which they moved back to get the wide angle) hitting the mirrorbox. That's not that good, to have a mirror come crashing down at 1/2000 of a second onto your EF-s lens, destroying your precious sensor. No good.
The point is, and i've noticed this in yours and al's posts. You always say "this is good, this is great, you're a fanboy" but my posts generally have the most information, the truest information, and the least biased. Again, I don't think the problem is Nikon or Canon.
As i've said, either makes a fine system. These minute differences aren't that big of a deal.
FYI too on the rebates, Mr. Salesman. Nikon offers rebates primarily to ensure that their US prices are closer to the grey market prices offered by most vendors. The reason? It keeps the lens prices competitive when the currency translates. Nikon historically offers the worst of any kickbacks. They never had the marketing blasts Canon can offer, and for a long time, probably up until the 1d mk II, they didn't really have much in the way of market share on the pro end. Nikon had (and still has) the reputation and the history. They could care less if you shill for them. They think that people will buy Nikon based on the name. Silly business practice, but it definitely dispells your theory about Nikon kickbacks.
The top three kickback companies, as far as getting salesmen to shill are:
1. Tamron
2. Tokina
3. Canon
This is fact.
I think the issue is people like Al who think that because they have L series glass and low noise at ISO 6400 on a body with a "C" name, that they're the reincarnation of Ansel Adams. I've created and sold images on Nikon cameras, of course, as well as Canon (including a few stock shots I shot on a whim with a borrowed Drebel), Minolta (as anyone remembering my forays into digital knows I owned and loved my Dimage 7i, right Mr. A?) and Pentax, on an old MF filmie.
The fact is, and by the amount of photos I take and are paid as a professional for, it doesn't matter what I shoot. Al, if you want me to be a Canon guy, buy me a 1d mk II and some of that L series stuff.
Chip, send me an Olympus system from your store. I'll take it. PM me for my address.
I just happen to, at this point, see a gross amount of misinformation going around about Nikon, and knowing a few people in the Nikon world, both high level employees and great shooters, I try to dispell this information, given my investment in Nikon. The minute differences that we generally bring up in these debates are so negligible on the final image quality, that I feel the need to dispell alot of the FUD floating around these boards. It's the blind following of a company that leads to mediocrity.
I can openly criticize Nikon AND Canon. I'm not shilling for either (though I do have a larger investment in Nikon gear than in Canon). I just honestly don't see a need for me to shift that investment to Canon. Or Olympus. Or Pentax. I'm just a REAL, PROFESSIONAL photographer who wants all gear to continue evolving. And wants the end-users to get the least biased info possible. Read through this thread.
I give real examples.
