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Apple charges a premium because they can. As long as people keep saying their prices are justified the prices will not change. In years past I did not even think about the prices Apple charges as being premium. When the iPhone came out I didn't care how much it cost I just wanted one. It was a game changing product. That alone justified the price.

Nowadays it is harder for me to justify the premium prices because there are so many laptop offerings that are just as innovative and many times more current than what Apple is offering.

Sure R&D takes money, time, and resources, but other companies do the same. I've read it takes a Billion dollars or more for a car company to design a new model, yet when the model is released their prices are still competitive based on the competition. If people were willing to pay more because they feel the car brand was "Premium" then the brand would obviously charge more.

Yet even if you factor the "Premium" status of Apple products and try to justify the cost based on software offerings and design costs, that still does not explain their record profits and cash reserve. That can only come from making a huge profit by charging more than everyone else for their products and services. Apple is enjoying its "Premium" status and making a killing milking every last cent out of their customers because we enable them.

They don't give anything away for free. iCloud basic service is free with 5gb of storage which is as pathetic as offering 128gb of storage in their base model hardware. You have to pay a "Premium" to make it usable. If you want to add features it's going to cost you. The cost to upgrade memory, storage, and processors is exorbitant.

Some people prefer to use MacOS, and some prefer to use Windows. The Windows user can get a lot more for their money regardless of whether we "Apple" folks like the look of the product they use. It's a choice and for what it's worth the "Eco system" argument is getting a little old. I can move pretty seamlessly between Mac and Windows. The only things that are not available to me between platforms is Airplay and iMessage. Even that is changing.

As an example of Apple's premium reputation just look at the solid gold Apple Watch they offered a while back and now the credit card. To me this is playing to the customer idea that Apple products are a status thing. I'm reading here that people are treating the credit card as a status thing even though the perks and benefits are no better than any other card.

For my basic needs Apple prices are becoming too high. Not because of my economic status but because the value is no longer there. I recently purchased a MBP 13" mostly because it was on sale. Because of all the perceived problems and issues with the recent and current MBP line they are on sale just about everywhere. Funny thing is to bring the MBP down to a price point more competitive with other companies there had to be some negative press.

Again perceptions can work both ways.

The problem with comparing company margins is that PC companies make inexpensive and expensive models and you can't separate them out. So you are comparing Apple, with a narrow high-margin product line and other companies with low, medium and high-margin products - comparing financial statistics doesn't get the job done with similar products.

Apple makes cheap watches. If you want to look at expensive watches, look at Garmin's Smartwatches:

This is their high-end Marq line https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/608665/pn/010-02006-00#
They run $1,500 to $2,500.

I have their mid-range Fenix 5+ model and these run $650 to $1,200.

Rumor is that the Fenix 6 coming out has 32-64 GB of SSD and solar charging.
 
If you look at the higher spec models from other manufacturers, the ones with comparable materials and specifications to Apple, then the prices are not too different. Apple just doesn't make the lower models.
 
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Exactly. Apple simply doesn't make budget laptops. So when you compare your $500 Best Buy budget model you are comparing apples and oranges. Place the two side by side and it would not be difficult to tell where Apple spent the extra money. And that attention to detail extends to all the parts you can't see as well.
 
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Exactly. Apple simply doesn't make budget laptops. So when you compare your $500 Best Buy budget model you are comparing apples and oranges. Place the two side by side and it would not be difficult to tell where Apple spent the extra money. And that attention to detail extends to all the parts you can't see as well.

I was looking at the LG Gram at Costco this weekend. $1,150 gets you a quad-core eighth-gen Intel chip with turbo to 46 GB, 256 GB SSD, 16 GB RAM, 17 inch display and great battery life and ports. The SSD has been benchmarked and it's good for about 200 mb/sec which is actually pretty miserable for an SSD. Your cheap SSDs on Amazon run at least 500. Apple's run 3,500 I think. There is a wide range of parts, performance and price that can go into PCs.
 
It may not excel in all departments but as an unit, it's a complete package.

Exactly! Apple has never offered much customization but they have almost perfected the jack of all trades laptop. It’s not difficult to find a laptop that will outperform a MBP in a given category, but very few can match the overall package.
 
If you look at the higher spec models from other manufacturers, the ones with comparable materials and specifications to Apple, then the prices are not too different. Apple just doesn't make the lower models.

The Macbook Air is pretty pathetic for the price IMO.

Macbook Pro is a little more in line. Thinkpad T590 (15" with 10key) is about $1500 for i7/16/512 and an MBP is $2200. So 50% more for MacOS and a keyboard that may not work. I picked that Thinkpad because I'm likely getting it for work and looking at upgrading my MBA.
 
The Macbook Air is pretty pathetic for the price IMO.

Macbook Pro is a little more in line. Thinkpad T590 (15" with 10key) is about $1500 for i7/16/512 and an MBP is $2200. So 50% more for MacOS and a keyboard that may not work. I picked that Thinkpad because I'm likely getting it for work and looking at upgrading my MBA.

The list price for the Thinkpad T590 is $2,813 with the same RAM and similar screen option and a CPU that supports discrete graphics and the discrete graphics card. The CPUs offered are 8th Generation and only go up to quad cores. The Apple 15 MacBook Pro starts with a 6-core 9th generation Core i7 for $2,399. Lenovo is currently offering a coupon which brings the price down to $1,687.80. But you're not going to get the 6-core processor. Do you compare list price with list price or discounted price with discounted price? The Thinkpad isn't competitive with the Apple MacBook Pro based on list price and there are options on the MacBook Pro that aren't available on the Thinkpad.
 
The list price for the Thinkpad T590 is $2,813 with the same RAM and similar screen option and a CPU that supports discrete graphics and the discrete graphics card. The CPUs offered are 8th Generation and only go up to quad cores. The Apple 15 MacBook Pro starts with a 6-core 9th generation Core i7 for $2,399. Lenovo is currently offering a coupon which brings the price down to $1,687.80. But you're not going to get the 6-core processor. Do you compare list price with list price or discounted price with discounted price? The Thinkpad isn't competitive with the Apple MacBook Pro based on list price and there are options on the MacBook Pro that aren't available on the Thinkpad.

The T590 isn't a great comparison piece for the 15" Macbook Pro. It's a U series CPU vs an H/HK series. The Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 15" is more of a direct comparison piece. The part number 20QV000GUS currently runs $2207
- i7-9850H
- GTX 1650
- 4K IPS 15" display
- Keyboard with scissor switches
- 80 Whr battery
- 16GB RAM
- 512GB SSD NVMe
- 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports, 2 USB type A, SD Card Reader, Ethernet, HDMI
- 802.11ax
- 18.7mm thick
- 1.7kg

Compared to the Macbook Pro at $2399.
  • The Lenovo leads in CPU, GPU, SSD capacity, keyboard quality, WiFi tech, port options and display quality (resolution/color gamut) by a wide margin.
  • The Lenovo edges out in weight.
  • The MBP edges out in battery capacity, display brightness and thickness.
  • The MBP leads in Thunderbolt ports and runtime.
  • The MBP has some unique options with the touchbar and USB-C charging.
  • The Lenovo has some unique options with the pointing stick and touch screen.
I'd say these two make a fair comparison. People will weigh different options with different levels of importance. You'll never find an exact match. Looking at the two and what they offer. I'd say the Apple still has an extra price premium. Apple tax if you will. It's not as bad as people think.

Apple still has to pay for all the software and web service development. I mentioned before. Lenovo offers a few security utilities and has to qualify their drivers for Windows. They don't come close to Apple's R&D costs in software development.
 
Attention to detail and overall user experience helped Apple build brand recognition. They sell easy to use products, often with high quality or unique hardware, pushing the limits of what is possible in consumer electronics. They put lot of money into R&D and that eventually benefits entire industry as competition copies them. They don't put cheap parts and don't want to compete on the price. I owned many laptops including Sony ultraportables from famous Z line and build quality/longevity were inferior to Macbook. I still own 4 MacBooks and we use them daily, not sure if they will ever break, even when kids are not gentle with them. Even though I would like Apple to lower their profit margin, I can wait to buy their stuff on a good sale.
 
Attention to detail and overall user experience helped Apple build brand recognition. They sell easy to use products, often with high quality or unique hardware, pushing the limits of what is possible in consumer electronics. They put lot of money into R&D and that eventually benefits entire industry as competition copies them. They don't put cheap parts and don't want to compete on the price. I owned many laptops including Sony ultraportables from famous Z line and build quality/longevity were inferior to Macbook. I still own 4 MacBooks and we use them daily, not sure if they will ever break, even when kids are not gentle with them. Even though I would like Apple to lower their profit margin, I can wait to buy their stuff on a good sale.

I find it amazing that Apple got trackpads right around 2007 and that it took many, many years for them to even approach Apple's and, still, most are inferior, even today.
 
I am still wondering what makes an Apple Macbook more costly than other pc. What are the features that distinguish and Apple laptop from the rest.
Do you also think that the new generation laptops have attained the heights that Apple laptops attained?

1. Stability. Plug/unplug 2-3 external monitors to the same MacBook and the screens will typically have the same resolution/layout/color profiles. Do the same on any Windows or Linux-running laptop (Linux side without extensive scripting) and let me know when you're done reconfiguring your desktops. I'll wait very patiently. Heck, even just one monitor seems like a lot to ask for Windows depending on the drivers of your GPU. Color management on both Windows and Linux is pretty much non-existent. Clearly nobody at Microsoft or any of the usual Linux organizations does photography.

2. Try to use Photoshop on a 4K 15" display on Windows. Fun stuff. Support for high DPI displays on Linux is close to non-existent.

3. Try to code on a Windows machine locked down by IT at work. Fun stuff as well. You can't even delete a folder without circumventing the security of your own account. Or actually, with the wrong Windows setup, you don't even need to blame IT. UAC on Windows is broken as all hell. Use a Windows computer for long enough and it's not even yours anymore. Don't believe me? Here you go: (updated Jul 7, 2019, and still no resolution for Windows 10)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...rors-when-you-access-or-work-with-files-and-f

4. Mac comes free with essential office apps, a music maker app, a movie maker app, and a photo gallery app. On Windows, none of those things is free. Yes, you have free alternatives like OpenOffice or LibreOffice, but... where's the free alternative to music maker and movie maker apps? Or photo gallery app?

5. Okay, I'll stop harping the software. Let's talk about the hardware: name one bluetooth keyboard/mouse that will work with a Windows laptop, or Linux laptop, or heck, even a MacBook, without dropping out every now and then. That's quite the fun game. Hardware manufacturers can't seem to give a damn about making bluetooth work like its namesake on Windows. On Mac, the same accessories don't work either, but then there's the Magic Keyboard and Magic Mouse, and Magic Trackpad, all of which work marvelously.

6. "Workstation-grade" hardware on Windows is a joke: https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Busin...ck-USB-ports-not-working/td-p/5613457/page/24

etc...

So... ahem, TL;DR: I pay extra for a MacBook for peace of mind. AppleCare+ allows me to smash the computer in anger and still be able to get a replacement.
 
Apple's trying to save their version of what the planet should look like using our nickels and dimes to do it with.
 
The reasons I buy Macs:
1) Mac OS doesn't require me to restart my computer daily after spending an hour trying to figure out why my code isn't working (and rebooting fixes it).
2) If my Mac has an issue I can take it to an Apple Store and show a human who doesn't make me reformat my computer first to make sure it isn't a software issue and then if I have to return for a repair generally gets it done in a day or two.
3) When I want a faster computer the resale value is excellent whereas 2 year old laptops from anyone else no matter how much you paid are basically garage sale fodder.
 
I am still wondering what makes an Apple Macbook more costly than other pc.
Simple answer, because Apple charges more. Unlike the Dells and Hps of the world, Apple's profit margin is not razor thin, they make more profit from a single sale then Dell does.

What are the features that distinguish and Apple laptop from the rest.
Very little in 2019. While back in the day, PC builders were content with boring and uninspired designs, that has all changed. You will frequently see PC makers that use superior parts, superior designs and in some cases superior quality then Apple.

Apple chose to go down a path of using proprietary technology, in 2012 and while their retina display was industry leading at the time, and their displays are quire beautiful they started using proprietary components like the SSD, Fast forward to 2019, we have a laptop that uses a nonstandard keyboard design (and is largely flawed), soldered on components, a T2 chip that continues to give consumers headaches. Where as the PC builders are making thin, light laptops and many of them replaceable components. 4k displays have long become the norm and offer more screen real estate then Apple's retina.

Apple sells an experience, not just hardware, while many people poke holes in the oft used mostly tired mantra it just works, Apple does a great job and integrating its various products to work well with each other. Apple focusing on the OS and hardware allow a unified and consistent user experience, and overall its been better then windows due to the fact it can be written for one set of hardware instead of an infinite number of variations.

Overall, for me, its harder to justify a Mac in 2019 on hardware as others have leap frogged apple in design, components and most importantly price. We all have to make decisions on how to spend our money, there is no right or wrong answer because its a personal decision. For me, I found that I'd be better off spending 2k on laptop then 4k, especially since that 4k has a reputation of a bad keyboard, unstable T2, and early reports of the flex cable failing after a couple of years (to be fair it seems apple fixed this after the 2016 mode year)

The reasons I buy Macs:
1) Mac OS doesn't require me to restart my computer daily after spending an hour trying to figure out why my code isn't working (and rebooting fixes it).
2) If my Mac has an issue I can take it to an Apple Store and show a human who doesn't make me reformat my computer first to make sure it isn't a software issue and then if I have to return for a repair generally gets it done in a day or two.
3) When I want a faster computer the resale value is excellent whereas 2 year old laptops from anyone else no matter how much you paid are basically garage sale fodder.


1), I don't need to restart my windows machine daily either.
2) That's a nice thing to have to be sure, but I sure do hate waiting 40+ minutes for my appointment at the apple store. They need to re-work things as people waiting that long who have appointments is frustrating. I have support via the web and phone and so far for me that's been fine (knocks on wood).
3) Resale values have taken a hit recently because of the flawed keyboard, but if you are selling a computer every two years then yeah I see your point.
 
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Very little in 2019. While back in the day, PC builders were content with boring and uninspired designs, that has all changed. You will frequently see PC makers that use superior parts, superior designs and in some cases superior quality then Apple.

Interesting perspective. Unfortunately I can't agree at all. I remember when I bought my Surface Book 2 (15") and started advocating people here on how awesome it is. But as many people, I did the mistake of judging a book by it's cover.
Once I started using the Surface Book productively, it started to fall apart on each front. Either it was issues with Windows itself, like the UI constantly lagging, or hardware related:

1) The paint job or whatever it is, it's done poorly. It rubbed off on my first flight, leaving behind ugly marks. Once I sold it later on, nobody trusted me and I had to sell it for roughly half of the price (after 6 months!). By comparison: I had my 15" MBP for one year and sold it with 400 loss. My 6 year old 13" MBP still looks as new on the outside, even though I treated it like ****!

2) Constant overheating of the components. Sometimes it was impossible to use the tablet because it was so hot.

3) The hinge is a cute idea, but it's not a great user experience. The force threshhold is too high to be comfortable, yet too low to stay in place.

4) The hardware was hardly balanced, with the CPU throttling the GPU.

5) The operating system didn't support most of the capabilities of the device like on the Mac. It's up to the individual software developers to integrate hardware features. I'd say this is the biggest advantage of Apple: Innovations end up being used instead of becoming vaporware.

This is only one example. I chose this device because I wanted to have an equivalent to a Mac in the Windows world, that capitalised on its biggest advantage: Touch Screens. But it still sucked, I prefer a dedicated experience like the one on the iPad any day. Nobody really optimises for the Windows tablet experience. It's just a bad compromise.

As for other vendors, I tried a lot of them in local stores, but the experience was even worse: The touchpads were horrendous, the touchscreens cumbersome, build quality seemed even cheaper and there are no official shops to turn to in case of issues. At least in Microsofts case you get the potential of a store opening up in your hometown.

Yes, the competition is full of innovations. But none of these innovation matters, if the experience of using them just sucks. Even the touchbar is more useful than any of the stuff you'll find on Windows laptops. I bet Apple came up with most of the stuff you see in Windows laptops nowadays just as well, but ended up killing the idea when it just didn't work well enough.
And that's another difference I think: Where other vendors couldn't afford to throw all of these R&D efforts away, Apple will just cover it with their profit margin (Microsoft does the same, which is another reason why I gave them a shot).
 
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1), I don't need to restart my windows machine daily either.
2) That's a nice thing to have to be sure, but I sure do hate waiting 40+ minutes for my appointment at the apple store. They need to re-work things as people waiting that long who have appointments is frustrating. I have support via the web and phone and so far for me that's been fine (knocks on wood).
3) Resale values have taken a hit recently because of the flawed keyboard, but if you are selling a computer every two years then yeah I see your point.

1) I shut down and restart because that's my thing and it's just a habit and doesn't take long.
2) Going mid-morning or mid-afternoon can greatly cut down waiting time. But I work very close to an Apple Store and can just run out and back.
3) I wouldn't touch the 2016-2019 models. I've seen 2015s selling for more than 2016s and 2017s.
 
1) I shut down and restart because that's my thing and it's just a habit and doesn't take long.
2) Going mid-morning or mid-afternoon can greatly cut down waiting time. But I work very close to an Apple Store and can just run out and back.
3) I wouldn't touch the 2016-2019 models. I've seen 2015s selling for more than 2016s and 2017s.
1), that's fine, the other member constructed his post to infer that he has to reboot a windows machine on a daily basis or else bad things will happen and that's just not true. I manage many windows desktops and servers that go for months without a reboot. If he's needing to reboot then something is definitely wrong with his setup
2)Sadly I was in a situation where I needed them to look at my laptop. I made an appointment and I sat there for 20 minutes, there was another fellow (amongst the crowed) who was clearly fed up and complaining that he was there all morning and yet no resolution (and he had an appt). I can't say that's the case for apple store but it seems normal for the one that's closest to me
3)Agreed, 2015 is a highly sought after model and the bottom is falling out of the 2016/17 and even the 18s
 
So basically most of the comments are related to personal experiences and not so much based on data. So I’ll chime in.

We can each cite examples of where Mac or Windows has failed us and then form an opinion about the whole product line.

I have had good and bad experiences with each platform and various hardware configurations. None are perfect.

I am now forming my opinion on my “current” experiences with Apple products. I just bought a new 2017 MacBook Pro and returned it because the screen flickered and the keyboard was very loud. I currently have a 2019 MacBook Pro that runs exceptionally hot, has erratic battery issues, and has developed horizontal lines that flicker across the screen at various times. I really want to keep my MacBook Pro but I am concerned about its reliability.

If you really want to reminisce, my previous apple computers were much more reliable than what I’m finding with their current lineup and as a result I’m looking for alternatives.
 
So basically most of the comments are related to personal experiences and not so much based on data. So I’ll chime in.

We can each cite examples of where Mac or Windows has failed us and then form an opinion about the whole product line.

I have had good and bad experiences with each platform and various hardware configurations. None are perfect.

I am now forming my opinion on my “current” experiences with Apple products. I just bought a new 2017 MacBook Pro and returned it because the screen flickered and the keyboard was very loud. I currently have a 2019 MacBook Pro that runs exceptionally hot, has erratic battery issues, and has developed horizontal lines that flicker across the screen at various times. I really want to keep my MacBook Pro but I am concerned about its reliability.

If you really want to reminisce, my previous apple computers were much more reliable than what I’m finding with their current lineup and as a result I’m looking for alternatives.

Apple has good years and bad years. 2016-2018 were clearly bad. The jury is out on the 2019s. We hope that 2020 will fix the problems. But I'm very, very happy with my 2014 and 2015 models.
 
I was hardcore Apple from 2005 - 2015'ish. I still am an Apple proponent, use a 2019 13"MBP, iPhone XR, the EarPods, and iPad. But have slowly become more/more disenchanted with them. Overall, Apple is still my go-to, and why I pay the premium. Especially for the ecosystem, ease of use, "It does just work", etc.

However, the lines are blurring a bit more for me. I've tried a few Windows laptops over the last 8-12 months; DELL, Lenovo, and recently MS. If you look at the cost of what I paid for the higher end models [DELL/Lenovo], it's pretty comparable to what I paid for the MBP, so I don't think Apple is way over priced/expensive than a comparable Windows machine. I think it really comes down to the usual; what works for you, what are you comfortable with, and what helps you get things done? Everyone's needs vary, so I don't think it's a one size fits all deal.

The recent BridgeOS issues, reboots, etc. are what forced me to look at alternatives, and overall I'm quite pleasantly surprised. My latest rig is an MS SurfacePro 6, and it's pretty decent system. True, there are more frequent updates for Windows 10 vs. MacOS, but most of the one's I've dealt with are for the Windows Defender, and none of those have required a restart. Those that do, I just schedule the restart later that's convenient, and go about my day. Does Windows still have issues? Sure, but so does MacOS. My MBP's fan ramps up at odd times, no different than some Windows machines, and I'm not doing high-end graphics work, or coding.

In the end I doubt I'll fully jump, but each year it does get a bit easier to consider.
 
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I was hardcore Apple from 2005 - 2015'ish. I still am an Apple proponent, use a 2019 13"MBP, iPhone XR, the EarPods, and iPad. But have slowly become more/more disenchanted with them. Overall, Apple is still my go-to, and why I pay the premium. Especially for the ecosystem, ease of use, "It does just work", etc.

However, the lines are blurring a bit more for me. I've tried a few Windows laptops over the last 8-12 months; DELL, Lenovo, and recently MS. If you look at the cost of what I paid for the higher end models [DELL/Lenovo], it's pretty comparable to what I paid for the MBP, so I don't think Apple is way over priced/expensive than a comparable Windows machine. I think it really comes down to the usual; what works for you, what are you comfortable with, and what helps you get things done? Everyone's needs vary, so I don't think it's a one size fits all deal.

The recent BridgeOS issues, reboots, etc. are what forced me to look at alternatives, and overall I'm quite pleasantly surprised. My latest rig is an MS SurfacePro 6, and it's pretty decent system. True, there are more frequent updates for Windows 10 vs. MacOS, but most of the one's I've dealt with are for the Windows Defender, and none of those have required a restart. Those that do, I just schedule the restart later that's convenient, and go about my day. Does Windows still have issues? Sure, but so does MacOS. My MBP's fan ramps up at odd times, no different than some Windows machines, and I'm not doing high-end graphics work, or coding.

In the end I doubt I'll fully jump, but each year it does get a bit easier to consider.

I'm in a similar place. Though I've used Apple systems from the Apple II.

I would prefer Apple products because I like the ecosystem and macOS but I've looked at Windows stuff and they give you far more options. Having ports (USB-A, HDMI, SD), being able to put in your own RAM or SSD is something common (not universal) in the Windows PC world. Apple is certainly getting the message.
 
From experience, choice of top quality components and attention to detail.
I'm typing this on a 9 year old MacBook that has been flawless. Battery replaced at 6 years old and 2500 charges!

Coming from a radio background, I installed a MacBook Pro as a layout system for a dance radio station. This MacBook Pro is in use 24 hours a day 7 days a week. That was in 2012 before I left radio. Guess what? That MacBook Pro is STILL in use nearly 7 years on!!!

They are an investment and speaking from my experience since 1995, they give tremendous pleasure, inspiration every time that they are used. They are solid, reliable, stable and dependable as well as being beautifully designed/damn sexy!
 
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From experience, choice of top quality components and attention to detail.
I'm typing this on a 9 year old MacBook that has been flawless. Battery replaced at 6 years old and 2500 charges!

Coming from a radio background, I installed a MacBook Pro as a layout system for a dance radio station. This MacBook Pro is in use 24 hours a day 7 days a week. That was in 2012 before I left radio. Guess what? That MacBook Pro is STILL in use nearly 7 years on!!!

They are an investment and speaking from my experience since 1995, they give tremendous pleasure, inspiration every time that they are used. They are solid, reliable, stable and dependable as well as being beautifully designed/damn sexy!

I think that 2010 was a good year. Not all of the years were good though. 2011 was a bad year for GPUs. The thing that gives many of us pause was a string of bad years recently. Hopefully Apple gets back to the good stuff.

I feel the same way that you do for my 2008 MacBook Pro, my 2014 MacBook Pro and my 2015 MacBook Pro. All great and reliable machines.
 
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