What temps are safe on rMBP?

[throAU]

Right now i have a couple of browsers open, nzbvortex, VLC and Steam, and my CPU is sitting here on 58 degrees (celsius). CPU is spending most of its time between 95 and 98 percent idle...

It's a joke.

 

[Yahooligan]

Excuse me. I really didn't appreciate the one sentence answer which is not true. Heat causes damage, and saying that as long as its not glowing, I'm ok, is just wrong.

That's your opinion that it's wrong. Nobody said anything about as long as it's not glowing, simply that there are safeguards in place to prevent damage by OVERheating. If you disagree then you should take it up with Apple instead of asking a loaded question.

I'm perfectly knowledgable that heat can be bad for computers. I was clarifying how damaging it is to these and at what temps. His answer simply was not detailed enough.

The hardware is rated for a temperature range, min and max, which the manufacturer has deemed to be "safe." Is a CPU running at 30C all day going to last longer than a CPU running at 104C all day? Probably, but how much will the component life be reduced by running hotter? Years, months, days? Maybe Intel has the answer.

Here's a better question. How many MBPs have suffered CPU failures due to heat for extended periods? I don't think I've seen once case yet...have you?

Perhaps the "If it's still running then it's safe" answer isn't what you were after, but it's not a wrong answer.

Also, please don't call people liars. Its not beneficial and just pisses people off. AKA me.

I didn't call you a liar, I suspected you may be trolling. I didn't call you a troll, but I did ask you what your purpose was in asking questions and then arguing about the answers. Maybe you should consider your "tone" if you're not getting the responses you want.

I had windows 7 running matlab in a virtualbox processing stuff for 12+ hours at the same time as I was using OS X for minecraft or something else. I absolutely saw 104. I'm saying it was there for all of 5 seconds, (it didn't "stay there") but it was there for a few moments. No need to call anyone a liar or be sarcastic. That does not promote a friendly forum.

Again, I didn't call you a liar. I questioned your motives and why I felt like your responses were suspect. You didn't like peoples' single-sentence answers and then do the very same thing, so that's a bit hypocritical. If you wanted to discuss your specific concerns and what you've seen then you should've posted it instead of coming back with "Heat causes damage." Well duh, but that response from you isn't helpful either so you got out what you put in. 😉

And I'm the jerk... 🙄

"What do you think of Pennzoil?"
"It's not bad, but there are better oils. It won't kill your engine."
"But sludge will kill the engine."
"So if you already are biased or have made up your mind about Pennzoil then why did you ask?"
"I wanted to get other peoples' opinions and info."
"And yet your response to an answers suggests you've already made up your mind."

See where I'm coming from?

If you think the temps are too high, take it to Apple and they can see if there's a problem. Since you don't want to re-apply thermal paste then that's your only option besides simply just continuing to use the laptop however you want. If you're worried about something failing due to heat then get AppleCare.

Cars have switched to "idiot gauges" or removed gauges altogether because consumers were reading too much into gauge readings. "Why is the oil pressure so high at startup?" "Why does the oil pressure go down when the engine idles?" "Why does the temperature gauge move up and down while driving?"

If you find yourself focusing on and worrying about something that's not likely to really be an issue then it's going to detract from the overall experience of using the device. If you think it's really a problem then that's what the warranty is for.

But I really don't understand why someone would ask a question and then argue about the answers given as if they're wanting a specific answer that they've already come up with in their head.

So...is it still running? Yes? Keep on using it. If it shuts down then you have a cooling problem.

 

[bkribbs]

That's your opinion that it's wrong. Nobody said anything about as long as it's not glowing, simply that there are safeguards in place to prevent damage by OVERheating. If you disagree then you should take it up with Apple instead of asking a loaded question.

Well first to that...

If its not glowing or shutting off or smoking, then its doing fine.

(The fact he mentioned glowing is what made me not appreciate that answer and therefore not give much of a good response.)

Other then that though I do appreciate your help. I just got kind of ticked when you accused me of trolling.

I was semi knowledgable about heat but was curious to hear what others had to say about it. There's nothing wrong with looking to gain more knowledge on a certain subject.

Again, thank you.

 

[Yahooligan]

Well first to that...




(The fact he mentioned glowing is what made me not appreciate that answer and therefore not give much of a good response.)

You're right, my bad for missing that in the first post and I apologize. I'm sure that poster was being facetious and not literal when talking about glowing. 🙂 Their point was basically correct, though, in that if the machine is still running fine then the temps are still considered to be safe according to Apple.

Other then that though I do appreciate your help. I just got kind of ticked when you accused me of trolling.

I was semi knowledgable about heat but was curious to hear what others had to say about it. There's nothing wrong with looking to gain more knowledge on a certain subject.

Again, thank you.

No worries, I think we both got off on the wrong foot due to the tone of the responses.

Something to note, that may be helpful, is that smcFanControl appears to be showing incorrect sensor values for temperature when compared to iStat Pro. smcFanControl says I'm sitting at 69C yet iStat Pro has nothing anywhere near that temp. I guess we also need to consider the source of our temperature info and whether it's actually accurate or not.

See attached screencaps.

 

[bkribbs]

You're right, my bad for missing that in the first post and I apologize. I'm sure that poster was being facetious and not literal when talking about glowing. 🙂 Their point was basically correct, though, in that if the machine is still running fine then the temps are still considered to be safe according to Apple.



No worries, I think we both got off on the wrong foot due to the tone of the responses.

Something to note, that may be helpful, is that smcFanControl appears to be showing incorrect sensor values for temperature when compared to iStat Pro. smcFanControl says I'm sitting at 69C yet iStat Pro has nothing anywhere near that temp. I guess we also need to consider the source of our temperature info and whether it's actually accurate or not.

See attached screencaps.

We did and I'm sorry about that.

I do agree about a large fluctuation in readings.

I have:

-iStat Menus
-Hardware Monitor
-SMC Fan control

I just have all three because the readings were different.

iStat reads the heatsink as 43, but doesn't show the actual temp of the core.

SMC fan control gets readings close to but not exactly what the core shows in hardware monitor.

Hardware monitor shows both the cores and heatsink.

For example right now:

my heatsink according to hardware monitor and istat shows 42 but smc fan control and the core reading on hardware monitor shows around 80 for the cores.

I believe that that actually may be why some people don't believe how hot I said it got, the core temp is very different from the heatsink temp.

The core temp is the one that really should be looked at right?

 

[Yahooligan]

We did and I'm sorry about that.

I do agree about a large fluctuation in readings.

I have:

-iStat Menus
-Hardware Monitor
-SMC Fan control

I just have all three because the readings were different.

iStat reads the heatsink as 43, but doesn't show the actual temp of the core.

SMC fan control gets readings close to but not exactly what the core shows in hardware monitor.

Hardware monitor shows both the cores and heatsink.

For example right now:

my heatsink according to hardware monitor and istat shows 42 but smc fan control and the core reading on hardware monitor shows around 80 for the cores.

I believe that that actually may be why some people don't believe how hot I said it got, the core temp is very different from the heatsink temp.

The core temp is the one that really should be looked at right?

Core temp is important, interestingly I don't have that much of a difference between smcFanControl and Hardware Monitor in terms of core temp. smcFanControl reports 68C but Hardware Monitor says 64C for core 1.

I think just as important is where you're getting the temps, as you said reporting what one tool says may not mimic what someone else sees with another tool.

I don't know where smcFanControl gets its temp data from since it's different than both iStat and Hardware Monitor. Perhaps a bad conversion somewhere? Reading in C shouldn't involve any conversion, though, I would think.

Anyway, based on the same three utilities I am able to get basic correlation between them with smcFanControl showing temps that don't match either other tool so perhaps that tool's info should be discarded? I don't know.

My concern wouldn't necessary be actual temps but rather temperature differential between CPU core and heatsink. A poor install of thermal paste or improperly seated headsink will result in poor heat transfer and higher than normal core temps for a given workload.

It also seems for these apps that iStat's "CPU heatsink" reading matches "Ambient Air" in Hardware Monitor and doesn't match any heatsink readings.

So perhaps the sensor mapping itself is incorrect with some of these apps as well.

Regardless of temps, this is pretty frustrating that it doesn't seem possible to get accurate or consistent readings between apps. Given a handful of apps, you'd think it would be possible to get at least two apps to agree. 🙁

 

[bkribbs]

Core temp is important, interestingly I don't have that much of a difference between smcFanControl and Hardware Monitor in terms of core temp. smcFanControl reports 68C but Hardware Monitor says 64C for core 1.

I think just as important is where you're getting the temps, as you said reporting what one tool says may not mimic what someone else sees with another tool.

I don't know where smcFanControl gets its temp data from since it's different than both iStat and Hardware Monitor. Perhaps a bad conversion somewhere? Reading in C shouldn't involve any conversion, though, I would think.

Anyway, based on the same three utilities I am able to get basic correlation between them with smcFanControl showing temps that don't match either other tool so perhaps that tool's info should be discarded? I don't know.

My concern wouldn't necessary be actual temps but rather temperature differential between CPU core and heatsink. A poor install of thermal paste or improperly seated headsink will result in poor heat transfer and higher than normal core temps for a given workload.

It also seems for these apps that iStat's "CPU heatsink" reading matches "Ambient Air" in Hardware Monitor and doesn't match any heatsink readings.

So perhaps the sensor mapping itself is incorrect with some of these apps as well.

Regardless of temps, this is pretty frustrating that it doesn't seem possible to get accurate or consistent readings between apps. Given a handful of apps, you'd think it would be possible to get at least two apps to agree. 🙁

Ah... so you think since the heatsink and the core temp are so different, perhaps the thermal paste application is bad and that's why my core reading is hotter?

That makes a LOT of sense. Definitely will have to talk to Apple about that.

 

[Doward]

Just to clarify - if you've re-applied thermal paste and have temps over 95C under full load, then you messed up somewhere in your work, sorry to say.

 

[bkribbs]

Just to clarify - if you've re-applied thermal paste and have temps over 95C under full load, then you messed up somewhere in your work, sorry to say.

Nah wasn't me!

I won't be opening this thing up while I still have a warranty. Too expensive to touch when I can have others do it. I've had it at apple for IR evaluation, so when I get the screen replaced I'll ask them to reapply thermal paste.

Is that something they'll usually do without a problem?

 

[Doward]

Nah wasn't me!

I won't be opening this thing up while I still have a warranty. Too expensive to touch when I can have others do it. I've had it at apple for IR evaluation, so when I get the screen replaced I'll ask them to reapply thermal paste.

Is that something they'll usually do without a problem?

No idea! If you bring them the thermal paste, I imagine they may 🙂

 

[leman]

First of all, re-applying the thermal paste is a really dumb idea (no offence meant), because it invalidates your warranty.

Second - are you sure that the temperature repots you are seeing are correct? If its not an external digital thermometer, I wouldn't be too certain. If the sensor reports 105 degrees, but the machine is still running great, without slowing down, then I don't see a problem.

 

[bkribbs]

First of all, re-applying the thermal paste is a really dumb idea (no offence meant), because it invalidates your warranty.

Second - are you sure that the temperature repots you are seeing are correct? If its not an external digital thermometer, I wouldn't be too certain. If the sensor reports 105 degrees, but the machine is still running great, without slowing down, then I don't see a problem.

That's why I'm going to ask apple to do it. That will not void my warranty.

Its the internal ones. Usually its just upper 90s not 105 but it is VERY hot so I definitely believe it.

 

[Doward]

First of all, re-applying the thermal paste is a really dumb idea (no offence meant), because it invalidates your warranty.

Second - are you sure that the temperature repots you are seeing are correct? If its not an external digital thermometer, I wouldn't be too certain. If the sensor reports 105 degrees, but the machine is still running great, without slowing down, then I don't see a problem.

No it doesn't, and I don't see how you couldn't see a problem? The internal temperature reading will clearly have some tolerance, but it's not going to be 10C off.

 

[mrsir2009]

I suspect the OP sees that the max CPU temp spec'd by Intel is 105C and is trying to play games or make some point. I highly doubt he's REALLY seeing 104C and if he is then I'd be curious to know exactly what he's doing to run right up to 1C below shutdown and stay there.

It's quite easy to get your MacBook Pro up over 100C, actually. When I start rendering something in blender on my MBP the temp usually gets to 102C before the fans even begin spinning up. Even after they do, depending on the ventilation the temp can stay in the high 90s or even straddle the 100 mark for some time. Apple really does have their machines wait until the last minute to spin their fans up and stop the computers from frying themselves.

 

[fatlardo]

I suspect the OP sees that the max CPU temp spec'd by Intel is 105C and is trying to play games or make some point. I highly doubt he's REALLY seeing 104C and if he is then I'd be curious to know exactly what he's doing to run right up to 1C below shutdown and stay there.

OP, you asked a question and were given answers. Now you're arguing about heat causing damage. Either you were curious and wanted to know about temps (Now you know) or you were looking to start a debate/argument. Which is it?

Is your laptop still running? Yes? Hey, great, keep on using it and stop arguing edge cases, what-ifs, or hypotheticals. Nobody is going to want to help you if you're going to ask questions and then argue about the answers you're given, it just makes you look like a jerk. If you already knew the answer then why ask the question in the first place? Hmmmm? 🙄

I actually hit 105C for sec so I wouldnt doubt his temps. It's actually very easy to do for a rMBP.

 

[Queen6]

Reapplying the thermal compound is not a panacea for all, and should be considered as a last resort, only once you have identified absolutely the elevated temperature is due to poor application of the compound during manufacture.

Mac portables run hot for many reasons: design, software load, dust, ambient temp, poor location, fan efficiency, application of thermal compound etc.

Elevation does help, as does UltraFan for software assistance not much else. the average consumer on the web, reading/writing mails will have a relatively cool quiet experience, those Prosumers/Professionals that begin to push their MBP`s will suffer the drone of the fans incessantly, you can mitigate, however this is simply the cost of thin & light combined with powerful CPU/GPU combinations.

Retina does have better thermals, equally they are only doing the same as portable PC`s have done for years; separating intake & exhaust to optimise air flow. Mac`s now in general are produced for the average consumer and fit the target audience well, for those needing more the options are limited at best...

 

[dastinger]

Totally agree. That video is being "sold" on every temperatures related threads like a magical solution for all your issues. And each user who share it has something like "now I can watch 4k videos for hours in full screen and the temps just go as high as -65°C!" ignoring so much factors that may influence temperatures. But the main one is that every machine is different.

I swapped the compound just because I'm tech savvy enough for it and knowing that it could help with temperatures. I did it because I wanted to but I can't sell that procedure as something magic to users who, even wrongfully, think that their temps are not as they should.

Again, it helped cleaning up the insides of my rMBP and reapplying the thermal compound but I still can make my rMBP go as high as 104°C. Why shouldn't it? It's designed to take up temperatures like that. If it starts shutting down due to high temperatures, than I'll really start worrying.

 

[fatlardo]

I kinda agree. I've bought extended warranties for my HP and Asus in the past, and the HP died after the 3 year warranty I bought. The Asus died within the 3 year mark. I'm crossing my fingers the rMBP doesn't fail after the 3 year mark due to repeated high temps.

 

[swerve147]

Elevation does help, as does UltraFan for software assistance not much else.

Regarding Ultrafan, can it auto-adjust fan speed based on the temperature (set and forget)? SMC is nice, but its completely manual. Besides these 2 no other apps exist (well, iStat Menus does but it's a pain to navigate to the fan control).

If Apple's fan "mapping" isn't aggressive enough for your tastes then maybe Ultrafan is the answer?

 

[Queen6]

Regarding Ultrafan, can it auto-adjust fan speed based on the temperature (set and forget)? SMC is nice, but its completely manual. Besides these 2 no other apps exist (well, iStat Menus does but it's a pain to navigate to the fan control).

If Apple's fan "mapping" isn't aggressive enough for your tastes then maybe Ultrafan is the answer?

Yes, a target of 65C works well on both of my 15" MBP`s. UltraFan will spool up the fans more aggressively, and in my experience helps to prevent thermal saturation. Apple`s approach is very different as the fans will not spool up until the system has already reached a high temperature threshold, which to my thinking is rather reactive.

UltraFan is the very opposite with the fans kicking in sooner the system stays cooler longer, short of very heavy loads fan noise in general is less intrusive, as by the time Apple`s algorithm kicks in the CPU/GPU are generally north of 80C - 90C transferring more heat to the internals which in turn requires higher fan RPM`s to remove for longer durations.

UltraFan`s premise is to control temperature, not fan RPM that is simply a byproduct, every other app available for modern Mac`s only overrides fan RPM`s as far as I know.

 

[maxosx]

As long as the aluminum isn't beginning to melt, you're fine.

Running really hot? That's how you know it's a genuine Mac 😀

 

[rabidz7]

That temp is INSANE, watercool it 😀, put all the fans on 100% when it is past 65C.
My 2011" MBP is at apple because the 95C heat may have fried the GPU.

 

[fatlardo]

Does Istat menu spool up with temps or you can only set manually?

 

[rabidz7]

Here's a better question. How many MBPs have suffered CPU failures due to heat for extended periods? I don't think I've seen once case yet...have you?

My late 2011 15" 6770M GPU failed from excess heat.

 

[fatlardo]

My late 2011 15" 6770M GPU failed from excess heat.

How long did you have it working before it failed? How did you use it (gaming, vids, work, etc?)