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If you haven't I would contact the Attorney Generals office. That works much better than the BBB. I have had to use them before against AT&T and it worked out much better than BBB's response in helping me.

Thanks for the advice, one of my friends told me to do that this morning too so I wrote both.


Man, I've read you're thread and you have certainly been through some ordeal, I have to say. Yes it's true Apple can be reluctant to just doing over-the-counter replacements, but rather they prefer to try and repair. I had issues where they "repaired" my iMac but damaged other things in the process. The customer service at the store wasn't good and I went to Customer Relations. They took care of me although I had to jump through a couple of hoops.
Here's the thing though, I'm not trying to jump on you per say but like one other poster mentioned, there's two sides to every story. While your posts to us here MR comes across as humble, nobody here knows other than you what really went on between you and Apple. Firstly I can't even read that email you posted, the text is too small and blurry.

Even if the letter was well written without threats (other than to never buy another Apple product) nobody here knows other than you what you said to them on phone conversations. After all you did say you were on the phone with them for 2hours.

I won't accuse you of anything but I can speculate that you're not being as honest to us here MR as you want us to think. Sure, you showed us the letter (that I can barely read...:rolleyes:) but I'm thinking you've said much more over the phone that turned out to be very threatening. You weren't even allowed to speak to the customer service rep you'd been dealing with. If security intervened there had to be much more to the story than you're telling.

As far as other people on MR habitually exchanging iMacs for yellowing screens, you can't believe everything you read on the internet. People do exaggerate. Case in point why I'm holding much of your posts suspect. You're portraying yourself to be an innocent customer who was wronged. You probably were but as Apple's security had to get in touch with you, sounds like you put forth more force towards them then you're letting on.
You're able to tell us what you want us to know here, I'm wondering what Apple would say if they could post their experiences with you?

Once again man, not trying to slam you but your story, plus Apple's security getting involved just isn't adding up to you being completely innocent. If you have truly been 100% innocent here with zero reason for Apple's security to get involved then yes, you should get in touch with BBB. Just know that Apple will have their side to tell with proof just as you will.

P.S. They can't stop you from buying a Mac, you can get one anywhere outside of Apple's stores. For service, use someone else's name and let them get the servicing done.

No, I understand your disbelief, and I don't blame you, I wouldn't believe me either. When I was on the phone for 2 hours, that was with Applecare trying to get my wifi working on my iMac. It was pretty much a trial and error call, try disconnecting this and resetting that, now go to network settings, check your ip etc. But I have been on some pretty long calls, most of them to other customer service agents, then putting me on hold trying to help me, then saying they couldn't and having to transfer me to Bob at ER. And while it is true you don't know what I said on the phone, I can assure you it was nothing to warrant Global Security calling me. I'm not going to lie, I did call the guy an ******* for taking back the computer in the middle of transit and told him it was a dick move. I think the problem was he told me all my emails I sent to corporate would be sent to him, so they were probably all rerouted. I didn't know at the time if they flagged my email or ip so I sent from a different email to various Apple execs, and they all went to him. So he probably received a bunch of emails saying the exact same thing.

And I know they can't stop me from buying a Mac, it's just the principal of the matter. Why would I want to buy a computer from a company that has treated me like scum of the Earth. But can they stop me from getting the product serviced if I needed service from Applecare? I don't know about the laws with warranties etc. And even though I doubt I will be buying new products from them, I still have an Apple TV, iphone, and mac mini under applecare.

You aren't the only one losing faith in their quality and customer relations.

Since the last refresh of all their products between me and friends we've owned every new product, and the failure rate on everything is significantly higher than the last 15 years I've been with apple.

The wifi issue is to do with their new network cards. Believe me when I say this because I could barely use the Internet on my new retina MacBook. Wouldn't talk to anything regardless of what I, or the geniuses did. However I persisted on my own one night til the early hours and after what seemed like 100 resets of my mac, all of the trouble shooting you described, and re setting my airport express it just started working and I've had no trouble since. I used the 5G mode initially but now it works on the 2.4 too. It's a bizarre problem but there are many complaints on the apple support pages with frustrated customers. Apple just don't want to admit it.

If I were you I'd be pretty pissed at how they've handled you as a customer and that they seem almost arrogant to their own success to the point that they are becoming cheap and lazy with customer service.

Which ever option you decide, best of luck. I've had 6 iPhones with faults and I'm still not happy. Just seems to the be the way these days - high volumes of sales, high levels of problems.

6 iphones? That's ridiculous! If you're pissed about how they've handled me as a customer, then imagine how I feel. Banned from a company that I've been supporting the last 12 years, got many people to switch, and even worked at their retail store 6 years ago? I have Apple stuff everywhere, not just computers/tablets/phones, but promotional items, hats, shirts, banners, etc. I am, or I guess was at this point an Apple maniac to buying EVERYTHING Apple.


I recently read a story that Apple is going to do less replacement but more repairs since it would save them at least $ 1 B / year.

Complain in Wall Street Journal and see how the reaction is then. When Steve Jobs originally left Apple the company lost track and nearly went under.

I wonder if Steve Jobs is watching this from wherever he is - if so he must be fuming so quickly the rot has set in. Once again the pencil shufflers have taken over.

I've contacted some media sources, no responses yet. Any idea the best way to get a hold of them or anyone else? It's kind of hard on twitter when you only have 140 characters to work with.

And I agree. Steve Jobs was a visionary, and when Ron Johnson ran retail, it was all about the customer (when I worked there). We were a customer centric company, and were there to make sure the customer had the right product, and services they needed to be Apple customers for life. We had people with numerous computer returns and we didn't go, oh you're SOL. We SOLVED their problem and made sure they were satisfied!
 
I've contacted some media sources, no responses yet. Any idea the best way to get a hold of them or anyone else? It's kind of hard on twitter when you only have 140 characters to work with.

I empathize with your situation. I have been through something similar in the past (albeit not to your extent.. banned wow). Being insulted by a "Genius" was the last straw for me. I did contact 'The Consumerist' (try their website), and submitted my story in detail. Once my story was published there, I got a call very quickly from Phil Schiller's office, and not only did they make it right, they also gave me a spec bump, without me even asking. That's how they won me back as a customer for life.
 
I empathize with your situation. I have been through something similar in the past (albeit not to your extent.. banned wow). Being insulted by a "Genius" was the last straw for me. I did contact 'The Consumerist' (try their website), and submitted my story in detail. Once my story was published there, I got a call very quickly from Phil Schiller's office, and not only did they make it right, they also gave me a spec bump, without me even asking. That's how they won me back as a customer for life.

I'll try that, thanks. That's pretty cool for them to reach out to you. With my luck at this point if I write the consumerist I'll probably end up with a cease and desist letter in the mail, haha. I'm going to try and see what happens though.
 
BBB Response Update:

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It's a mass produced product - you can't expect absolute perfection.

Uh....BS!! Jobs sure did. Why shouldn't any of us shelling out mega-bucks for these machines?

I don't care if they gotta buy a shipping company because I return too many products. They bedda get their mess in a pile. Long as I'm spending my money, I'm going to be satisfied. 1 return or 21, how ever many it takes.
 
Uh....BS!! Jobs sure did. Why shouldn't any of us shelling out mega-bucks for these machines?

I don't care if they gotta buy a shipping company because I return too many products. They bedda get their mess in a pile. Long as I'm spending my money, I'm going to be satisfied. 1 return or 21, how ever many it takes.

Sigh. Not going to bother arguing with you - if you think it's reasonable to return and repurchase 21 machines then you have bigger problems.

As for the op - I don't see what your issue is. You said in your email that you don't want to own Apple products any more. Apple don't want you as a customer any more. Seems like a perfect match to me?

News flash - Apple aren't obliged to sell you a machine - no matter how entitled you feel. And tbh, if you wrote me an email like the ones you sent - I'd tell you to get stuffed too. The BBB can't force a store to sell you something. Quit whining and move on with your life.

I really do not understand what you want.
 
I don't understand what's unreasonable about wanting what you pay for, a quality device. If you went out and bought a new car, would you accept it and just live with if it were scratched up or beat up? Or if maybe half the features worked half the time?

Maybe I'm missing something here but I expect a Mac to be perfect right out the box.
 
Already posted what I said on page two, posted my 2 emails I wrote to them.

I feel for you after having returned multiple iPad 3's due to screen issues, and subsequently being "iPad banned" from one Apple retail store.

But... Perhaps it was on the verge of harassment, sending the email to every possible Apple head you could think of at once. That's probably why Apple Global Security contacted you and told you to cease and desist.

I contacted the head of customer relations about my issue, and the store managers gave him a run around, denying, lying, etc.

So in the end I said w/e and dropped the issue, sold my iPad 3 for a loss, and bought an iPad mini instead; which thus far has been perfection.

Sometimes you just have to give up and move on.

On the other hand, I returned a couple 2010 iMacs for screen yellowing, and Exec. relations sorted out my issue very quickly, and they were very friendly about it.

So it seems customer relations is very hit and miss with Apple.

They are however 100% worse at all of Apple retail stores I've been to, compared to phone support. It probably would have been worse if you did return it to an Apple store.

In the end, get someone else to buy your Apple products/AppleCare for you, if you want to keep using them that is.

----------

I don't understand what's unreasonable about wanting what you pay for, a quality device. If you went out and bought a new car, would you accept it and just live with if it were scratched up or beat up? Or if maybe half the features worked half the time?

Maybe I'm missing something here but I expect a Mac to be perfect right out the box.

You're absolutely right.

Unfortunately due to the mass scale of manufacturing the products, it seems it's getting less and less likely to find a perfect product on the first shot.

My 2012 iMac has slight a slight colour shift towards the bottom, my iPhone has a colour shift towards the top right. I've learned to live with it, though it bugs me to no end. The iPad 3's were just horrid.

I haven't seen a perfect 'retina' or iMac display since the 2006 iMac, and the iPhone 4. The iPhone 4's were hit and miss on blue, or yellow tints, but at least they were uniform.
 
I don't understand what's unreasonable about wanting what you pay for, a quality device. If you went out and bought a new car, would you accept it and just live with if it were scratched up or beat up? Or if maybe half the features worked half the time?

Maybe I'm missing something here but I expect a Mac to be perfect right out the box.

Nothing's unreasonable about it. But there are lots of isheep on here who will defend Apple no matter what. But it's not like I'm buying an emachine from Wal-Mart that was $200.

I feel for you after having returned multiple iPad 3's due to screen issues, and subsequently being "iPad banned" from one Apple retail store.

But... Perhaps it was on the verge of harassment, sending the email to every possible Apple head you could think of at once. That's probably why Apple Global Security contacted you and told you to cease and desist.

I contacted the head of customer relations about my issue, and the store managers gave him a run around, denying, lying, etc.

So in the end I said w/e and dropped the issue, sold my iPad 3 for a loss, and bought an iPad mini instead; which thus far has been perfection.

Sometimes you just have to give up and move on.

On the other hand, I returned a couple 2010 iMacs for screen yellowing, and Exec. relations sorted out my issue very quickly, and they were very friendly about it.

So it seems customer relations is very hit and miss with Apple.

They are however 100% worse at all of Apple retail stores I've been to, compared to phone support. It probably would have been worse if you did return it to an Apple store.

In the end, get someone else to buy your Apple products/AppleCare for you, if you want to keep using them that is.[COLOR="#808080"

Yeah, well, that I can understand. But not wanting me as a customer? Ok.... And it's not like they can ban me from buying Apple products, they're everywhere. I don't think they can actually do anything to my Applecare/warranty either according to state laws, unless the device was physically damaged by myself, which would be the same situation for anyone else.

My ipod nano battery was starting to drain a lot faster I was going to wait until it got worse to send it in, but wanted to see if they would deny me if I sent it in under applecare. That was replaced and sent back to me.
 
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By telling you(In writing) that you aren't welcome as an Apple customer any more they are pretty much telling you they won't conduct any business with you that requires both parties(yourself and Apple) to enter into any contract ie Applecare etcThere is nothing they can do to bar you from their stores, and therefore being a customer, without filing a trespass and even then it would have to be done store to store and require so some sort of actual crime or attempted crime. Anything more than that, it's discrimination just pick your reason why.

You have two ways to go: pay for any repairs yourself and move on or do the before mentioned, retain counsel and forward any bills(copies) to Apple and weigh your options about litigation if and when you get some sort of response. I would suggest just letting it go, life is too short and you won't win in the end.
 
By telling you(In writing) that you aren't welcome as an Apple customer any more they are pretty much telling you they won't conduct any business with you that requires both parties(yourself and Apple) to enter into any contract ie Applecare etcThere is nothing they can do to bar you from their stores, and therefore being a customer, without filing a trespass and even then it would have to be done store to store and require so some sort of actual crime or attempted crime. Anything more than that, it's discrimination just pick your reason why.

Apple stores are private property. If they don't want you there - they have the right to remove you.

Same as if you invite me into your house and tell me to leave.
 
Nothing's unreasonable about it. But there are lots of isheep on here who will defend Apple no matter what. But it's not like I'm buying an emachine from Wal-Mart that was $200.



Yeah, well, that I can understand. But not wanting me as a customer? Ok.... And it's not like they can ban me from buying Apple products, they're everywhere. I don't think they can actually do anything to my Applecare/warranty either according to state laws, unless the device was physically damaged by myself, which would be the same situation for anyone else.

My ipod nano battery was starting to drain a lot faster I was going to wait until it got worse to send it in, but wanted to see if they would deny me if I sent it in under applecare. That was replaced and sent back to me.

Yeah, you can still go buy an Apple product and have the standard return/warranty period. They may however deny any new AppleCare in your name.

Honestly I think they are just blowing smoke, and just don't want to be bothered with this issue anymore.
 
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I feel like there is more to this story then we know. HOWEVER at the prices Apple charges their products better be perfect to the untrained eye out of the box. You can get iMac knock off PC's for a couple hundred bucks. Then I'd find a small aesthetic defect acceptable.
 
Apple stores are private property. If they don't want you there - they have the right to remove you.

Same as if you invite me into your house and tell me to leave.

That's not 100 percent true. As a place of business, thy have to have a reason to ask you not to come back ie an actual crime has been committed, attempted or they can prove you are going to. They can't just say they don't want you in their stores "just because" you aren't "welcomed as a customer" any more. They have every right to not do business with you where an agreement is entered into beyond what is offered at a point of sale ie Applecare or financing.
 
That's not 100 percent true. As a place of business, thy have to have a reason to ask you not to come back ie an actual crime has been committed, attempted or they can prove you are going to. They can't just say they don't want you in their stores "just because" you aren't "welcomed as a customer" any more. They have every right to not do business with you where an agreement is entered into beyond what is offered at a point of sale ie Applecare or financing.

Actually - they can do what the hell they like.

You can't ban a "protected class" (e.g. based on race, religion, gender, etc) but an individual? Sure you can.

It's their premises and their business. If they don't want you there - that's their call.
 
Actually - they can do what the hell they like.

You can't ban a "protected class" (e.g. based on race, religion, gender, etc) but an individual? Sure you can.

It's their premises and their business. If they don't want you there - that's their call.


Again, no they can't. You have to have given them an actual reason either a crime, attempted crime or some other nusience that harms their ability to do business at the level a reasonable person would agree with. For the same reason they can't say no women or no white people, they can't just bar one person from a retail location just because he's proven to be a pain through email without some actual, tangible(see: something documented) reason and even then it can't be a lifetime ban. A trespass, in all states I know off top of my head, require some level of review in a year, two, five etc. The reason they were barred from the premise still has to be valid or some othe reason has to be given.

In cases where the denial of services involved someone not a member of a protected group like the disabled, the business has to prove they have a real reason to refuse service, it can't be arbitrary.
 
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I must have got real lucky with my imac since everything worked perfectly out of box. it was from an apple store not a bto though.

demanding nothing but new, not accepting repairs ect then spamming their mailbox with complaints would certainly get security involved.

sometimes the customer costs the company so much money its better to not have their business. which it seems like what they have decided.

I would cry if i wasnt welcome anymore as a customer. I hate windows.
 
I must have got real lucky with my imac since everything worked perfectly out of box. it was from an apple store not a bto though.

demanding nothing but new, not accepting repairs ect then spamming their mailbox with complaints would certainly get security involved.

sometimes the customer costs the company so much money its better to not have their business. which it seems like what they have decided.

I would cry if i wasnt welcome anymore as a customer. I hate windows.

I really doubt Apple lost that much money, or any at all because of me. Their markups are 30-60%, they get corporate FedEx shipping rates which are incredibly low. Would probably cost me more to ship out a 4 pound package USPS Priority Mail than it would for them to overnight a 35 pound computer. Someone I know at a company (not saying what company, but they make collectables) showed me the overnight rates they had for something I bought that was 10 pounds, it was $15.

And like I said before, they can't stop me from buying a computer. I could go to Best Buy, Mac Mall, Amazon, etc. But it's the principle of the matter. I really don't care if I go back to using PCs. I'd prefer to use a Mac though.
 
And like I said before, they can't stop me from buying a computer. I could go to Best Buy, Mac Mall, Amazon, etc. But it's the principle of the matter. I really don't care if I go back to using PCs. I'd prefer to use a Mac though.

its a sign to build a crazy linux machine =P
 
Wow this is a crazy story. Respect for at least admitting you called the guy an A*******.

I can kinda see both sides. It sucks you had issues with an expensive machine, but if you had some agreement, and went behind his back to try to do something else, I can understand why he'd be pissed. And if it's Customer Relations, they have the ability to do more damage to you.

That said, I think they took it A LITTLE far. Unless you threatened them, I don't see what the big deal is.

I wouldn't sweat it, they can't prove who you are. Just make a new Apple account with a new address and use a Google phone number. They're not checking your social. You're not in a no fly database.

But I am generally curious why Apple Security would go that far.
 
Wow this is a crazy story. Respect for at least admitting you called the guy an A*******.

I can kinda see both sides. It sucks you had issues with an expensive machine, but if you had some agreement, and went behind his back to try to do something else, I can understand why he'd be pissed. And if it's Customer Relations, they have the ability to do more damage to you.

That said, I think they took it A LITTLE far. Unless you threatened them, I don't see what the big deal is.

I wouldn't sweat it, they can't prove who you are. Just make a new Apple account with a new address and use a Google phone number. They're not checking your social. You're not in a no fly database.

But I am generally curious why Apple Security would go that far.

Probably the reason some other people mentioned (why security called), I was trying to get an executive to answer my email, so I sent out A LOT of them. My email was probably flagged, and the guy who was "helping" me received them all. Then he probably also got pissed off because I said he was unprofessional and useless in the email I sent to corporate.

Who knows, he could have told anyone at Apple or security anything. I'll never know.
 
Get a Mac Mini or one of the soon-to-be-released Mac Pros.

You'll end up a happier guy!
 
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